Thread: Should political or religious sigs and avatars be allowed?

Originally Posted by Tned-Mobile

I don't 'quake' in fear. Unlike many of those sites you listed, I do my best to reach compromises. Such as the Lounge.

Please don't confuse 'fear' with attempting to accommodate as many varying viewpoints as possible. I could 'impose' my will on the board, like so many of the examples you gave, but instead I put my personal opinion aside and focus on trying to achieve solutions that accommodate as many members as possible.

I'm surprised you see that as a bad thing.

Its only a bad thing because even with your compromise someone will try to get around it. This is where im glad im not a mod anymore as this is just more work than is really needed. And i think that is what Top is getting at. You've gone out on a limb to accomadate those who already have a dedicated forum for them to talk about their views. Whats the old saying? Give them an inch they will take a mile? But, its your board and your new mods will have to deal with it now. Good luck.

Originally Posted by Northman

Its only a bad thing because even with your compromise someone will try to get around it. This is where im glad im not a mod anymore as this is just more work than is really needed. And i think that is what Top is getting at. You've gone out on a limb to accomadate those who already have a dedicated forum for them to talk about their views. Whats the old saying? Give them an inch they will take a mile? But, its your board and your new mods will have to deal with it now. Good luck.

Actually, I think it will make modding much more straight forward, as Blue alluded to. Now, any political or religious statement in a normal sig, avatar or user title can simply be removed. No need to determine "is it positive", which would often wind up being very long discussions among the mods, which would still get met with "they only decided that because ______", fill in the blank with "their political offilication", "they don't like me", "some of them are former freaks", "some of them are former maniacs", etc.

In addition, that compromise, that should have been reasonable, but was being portrayed as political persecution and catering to 'thin skinned' people, didn't really address those people that chose to opt out of politics or religion.

The fact is that was a compromise HEAVILY weighted against those that chose to opt out of the politics/religion forums, which means it should have been seen as a very fair compromise to those that wanted their political sigs.

However, as with much of the P&R discussion itself, many people aren't willing to compromise on a middle ground, but must fight tooth and nail to force 'their' position on you.

So, this is now a much fairer approach for those that are opted out, and as I said earlier, those that want to inflame each other with P&R sigs can do so, but they must do it via a "P&R Sig Opt In" route.

Originally Posted by Tned-Mobile

Actually, I think it will make modding much more straight forward, as Blue alluded to. Now, any political or religious statement in a normal sig, avatar or user title can simply be removed. No need to determine "is it positive", which would often wind up being very long discussions among the mods, which would still get met with "they only decided that because ______", fill in the blank with "their political offilication", "they don't like me", "some of them are former freaks", "some of them are former maniacs", etc.

In addition, that compromise, that should have been reasonable, but was being portrayed as political persecution and catering to 'thin skinned' people, didn't really address those people that chose to opt out of politics or religion.

The fact is that was a compromise HEAVILY weighted against those that chose to opt out of the politics/religion forums, which means it should have been seen as a very fair compromise to those that wanted their political sigs.

However, as with much of the P&R discussion itself, many people aren't willing to compromise on a middle ground, but must fight tooth and nail to force 'their' position on you.

So, this is now a much fairer approach for those that are opted out, and as I said earlier, those that want to inflame each other with P&R sigs can do so, but they must do it via a "P&R Sig Opt In" route.

So, when that gets installed do have to check something in order to turn them off so i dont see them or is it up to the "individual" to turn it on if they want to see them? I still dont understand how your going to manage to only turn off certain avs and sigs. How does the program determine what is political/religious?

Just ban them all. Problem solved.

Originally Posted by Northman

So, when that gets installed do have to check something in order to turn them off so i dont see them or is it up to the "individual" to turn it on if they want to see them? I still dont understand how your going to manage to only turn off certain avs and sigs. How does the program determine what is political/religious?

1. Everyone will be 'required' to remove all references to politics or religion from their sigs, avatars and customer user titles.
2. Anyone that wishes to have a P&R signature, will be able to create one via new user profile fields
3. By default, everyone will be OPTED OUT of viewing the P&R signatures.
4. To view P&R signatures (created through the profile fields), a user would need to change their theme to one of the P&R themes -- the same way they can choose the "worker friendly" theme.

That is it in rough terms, I will provide a more thorough explanation once I actually set it up. At this point, this is something I am 99% sure I can get to work, which is why I have posted it.

I don't see why you feel the need to placate thinned-skinned people.

But, as I implied, I generally trust the judgment of those who have spoken out for it.

So be it. <-------- *just for you, Claymore*

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Originally Posted by Northman

So, when that gets installed do have to check something in order to turn them off so i dont see them or is it up to the "individual" to turn it on if they want to see them? I still dont understand how your going to manage to only turn off certain avs and sigs. How does the program determine what is political/religious?

The way I understood it is that unless any given poster makes a change in "User CP", they'll get the "default" view of the Forums... with no political or religious sigs. In order to display or view a religious or political sig, you'd have to change from the "default" to a different setting, so those who don't want to see them... or don't care enough to turn them on... don't have to see them.

Originally Posted by topscribe

I don't see why you feel the need to placate thinned-skinned people.

But, as I implied, I generally trust the judgment of those who have spoken out for it.

So be it. <-------- *just for you, Claymore*

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Actually, I think you could easily argue it is the 'other' group that is being placated. Hence the reason no compromise could be reached. Neither side is able to see it from the other's perspective.

Originally Posted by Midnight Blue

The way I understood it is that unless any given poster makes a change in "User CP", they'll get the "default" view of the Forums... with no political or religious sigs. In order to display or view a religious or political sig, you'd have to change from the "default" to a different setting, so those who don't want to see them... or don't care enough to turn them on... don't have to see them.

That's very 'close' to accurate. In concept you are correct, but the one difference is that to 'view' the sigs, rather than making the change in "User CP", they would simply change their style at the bottom left of any page (where we currently have "Default Style" and "Worker Friendly") and choose a P&R Sig style.

What they would do in the User CP is setup their OWN P&R sig if they want one.

Originally Posted by Tned-Mobile

Not quite.

Once it is in effect. There will be NO political or religious images or statements allowed in avatars, user titles or signatures.

However, I will provide special fields (in the same place you edit your adopted Bronco, locations, etc.) where you can create a Political/Religious sig.

Then, that special P&R sig will not have a positive/negative limitation, with the following caveat. I have not made a decision yet on the 'highly' inflammatory negative images. I am inclined to make it anything goes, but I am not ready to make that decision yet.

I have been mostly focused on the 'how' it can be done, as it is not something vBulletin was designed to do.

Tned, I guess I just have one question: Maybe I missed the answer and if so, just chalk it up to old age.

If you're going to allow any type of political/religious sigs and avvys in the respective forums how are you going to handle the fights that arise? What I'm trying to say is that some people will push this to ridiculous levels and there are bound to be arguments.

If you're just going to continue threatening to close the forums due to problem you'd might as well do it now. If you think there won't be big problems created by this policy you're not near as sharp as I think you are.

Originally Posted by Tned-Mobile

Not quite.

Once it is in effect. There will be NO political or religious images or statements allowed in avatars, user titles or signatures.

How about patriotic ones? I think you're getting into a situation that's unwinnable.

Is there any question of Tned's dedication to this forum?

If he wasn't married, I'd sign him up for Spanish lessons (), get him some quality pool time with drinks included, and buy his dinner.

Originally Posted by Slick

Is there any question of Tned's dedication to this forum?

If he wasn't married, I'd sign him up for Spanish lessons (), get him some quality pool time with drinks included, and buy his dinner.

Why don't you do that anyway?
I have to agree....Tned seems to me you're going through alot of time,effort,trouble and headache for all this...

Originally Posted by Slick

Is there any question of Tned's dedication to this forum?

If he wasn't married, I'd sign him up for Spanish lessons (), get him some quality pool time with drinks included, and buy his dinner.

Hmm, you are making me consider divorce. I like drinks, and have seen pics of the 'tutors'

Originally Posted by deacon

How about patriotic ones? I think you're getting into a situation that's unwinnable.

I don't think that a picture of an American Flag or a Capitol Building would count - they're inanimate objects, not sided. Unless, of course, there is a message (typed or otherwise) that accompanies it.

JMO.

What about dead bodies of tyrants? Has that been covered?