Page 1 of 5 1 2 3 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 15 of 64

Thread: Regarding Franchise QB's

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Albany, New York
    Adopted Bronco:
    Charley Johnson
    Posts
    27,236

    Default Regarding Franchise QB's

    An interesting piece. My own thinking is becoming more in line with the idea that nothing guarantees long term futility like constant QB changes as you search for the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. Its simply stupid, because you never quite know who will actually turn out to be the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. You can end up as the NFL equivalent of the old maid that never married because nobody ever met her standards. Or, put another way, win with who ya got.

    Cassel, Kolb misfires show the value of Bridge Quarterbacks

    Through the last decade, the dominant narrative in the NFL has been that if you want to build a dynasty and win Super Bowls, you must have a franchise quarterback. Teams who use league-average bridge players at that position tend to underwhelm in the end, which is why some teams have gambled and lost on quarterbacks just high enough in the food chain to tantalize, and just low enough on the reality scale to disappoint when the time comes to validate that elite-level contract.

    Two teams are paying the price for those errant decisions, both literally and figuratively. The Kansas City Chiefs rewarded former New England Patriots quarterback Matt Cassel with a six-year, $63 million contract in July of 2009 after Cassel helped the Pats go 11-5 without Tom Brady, who suffered a season-ending knee injury on the first quarter of the first game. In his nearly three seasons with the Chiefs, Cassel has never posted a DYAR efficiency ranking higher than 14th in the league through a season, and the hand injury that put him on injured reserve this season has made him all to replaceable in some eyes.

    When the Chiefs upset the formerly undefeated Green Bay Packers last Sunday, interim head coach Romeo Crennel said that if backup Kyle Orton continued to play as he did, he should get a chance to be the team's starting quarterback in 2012. Given the fact that Orton's better play would increase Crennel's chances of turning his own "interim" tag to "permanent," it isn't hard to see the writing on the wall. Cassel got a $4.75 million base salary and a $7.5 million option bonus in 2011; Orton will be a free agent on the comeback trail next year...

    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/blog/shu...p14402&print=1
    P.S. I've seen enough of Kyle Orton now to recognize the opposite problem. The Chiefs will learn too, in their own good time
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

  2. The Following 7 Users High Fived Dreadnought For This Post:


  3. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Anderson, TX
    Adopted Bronco:
    Demaryius Thomas
    Posts
    36,443

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    An interesting piece. My own thinking is becoming more in line with the idea that nothing guarantees long term futility like constant QB changes as you search for the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. Its simply stupid, because you never quite know who will actually turn out to be the next Drew Brees, Tom Brady, or Peyton Manning. You can end up as the NFL equivalent of the old maid that never married because nobody ever met her standards. Or, put another way, win with who ya got.



    P.S. I've seen enough of Kyle Orton now to recognize the opposite problem. The Chiefs will learn too, in their own good time
    Orton's performance against the Packers was typical. Lots of yards and very little point production and in the case of this particular game he had none.

  4. The Following 7 Users High Fived TXBRONC For This Post:


  5. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Little Elm, TX
    Adopted Bronco:
    #58
    Posts
    26,171

    Default

    But here lies the problem.

    Take Brady, Brees, Rogers, Mannings, Ben out of the equation. Who is the best of the rest? What set of QB's after that group would be considered elite?

    I just think that after a handful of QB's, the rest of the league is mediocre to bad. So if the game and the rules are set up now to play to the benefit of the passing game, then these QB's realistically have to be considered the favorites to win the SB year after year.

    It requires more than a Franchise QB...it requires a HoF quarterback. Look at the last 20+ years. Other than Dilfer and Johnson, show me a QB that isnt in...on their way in...or in the process of having that type of a career. If you dont have a guy with one of the names listed above...you're pretty much in a constant state of playing for next year

  6. The Following 2 Users High Fived CoachChaz For This Post:


  7. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Adopted Bronco:
    Pat Bowlen
    Posts
    97,306

    Default

    I know people here hate Orton but that's the type of quarterback the guy is referring to. Pay a mediocre guy mediocre money (yes $9 million is mediocre quarterback money for tw years) while you search for a franchise guy and maybe the mediocre guy will surprise you. Obviously that didn't happen this year, but it probably was the right approach to take with Orton.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  8. The Following User High Fived MOtorboat For This Post:


  9. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Adopted Bronco:
    george floyd little
    Posts
    5,703

    Default

    CAM newton will get there.
    Matt stafford too.
    but regardless of the QB, he and his team aint going nowhere without a solid run game and capable defense.
    BRONCO fans should know this better than most!
    at least bronco fans over the age of 30.

  10. #6
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Adopted Bronco:
    Demaryius Thomas
    Posts
    31,252

    Default

    It's a catch22. Your chances of winning a SB without an elite QB are very low, but the chances of hurting your franchise for years by getting on and off the QB carrousel is very high. So, you almost have to have one but the search itself can destroy your franchise for big chuncks of time.

    Hopefully, we have ours now and we can prove that franchise QBs don't all have to fit into a specific mold.
    Let's Rid3!!!!

  11. The Following 3 Users High Fived chazoe60 For This Post:


  12. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Adopted Bronco:
    Justin Simmons
    Posts
    5,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
    Orton's performance against the Packers was typical. Lots of yards and very little point production and in the case of this particular game he had none.
    That said, Orton getting to throw to the likes of Breaston, Baldwin and Bowe is the ideal situation for a guy like him.

  13. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    1,627

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Zambini View Post
    CAM newton will get there.
    Matt stafford too.
    but regardless of the QB, he and his team aint going nowhere without a solid run game and capable defense.
    BRONCO fans should know this better than most!
    at least bronco fans over the age of 30.
    Is that a hint at the fact that even john couldn't get it done without a running game?

  14. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Albany, New York
    Adopted Bronco:
    Charley Johnson
    Posts
    27,236

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    But here lies the problem.

    Take Brady, Brees, Rogers, Mannings, Ben out of the equation. Who is the best of the rest? What set of QB's after that group would be considered elite?

    I just think that after a handful of QB's, the rest of the league is mediocre to bad. So if the game and the rules are set up now to play to the benefit of the passing game, then these QB's realistically have to be considered the favorites to win the SB year after year.

    It requires more than a Franchise QB...it requires a HoF quarterback. Look at the last 20+ years. Other than Dilfer and Johnson, show me a QB that isnt in...on their way in...or in the process of having that type of a career. If you dont have a guy with one of the names listed above...you're pretty much in a constant state of playing for next year
    I have to disagree here. I think there is a whole slew of 2nd tier QB's fully capable of winning a Superbowl. In the case of Eli Manning he actually did (I disagree that he is an elite QB, just very good). Jake DelHomme and Matt Hasselback came within a whisker of doing it as well, as did an old Kurt Warner. I would say the next tier down includes

    Jay Cutler
    Eli Manning
    Tony Romo
    Philip Rivers
    Matt Ryan
    Matt Schaub

    A third tier - guys who are capable or might be capable - or who the Hell knows...anyways, they are good enough to win regularly now or have won regularly in the past. They are guys with enough upside you don't go looking to replace them just yet, or who might well move up a level or two very soon.

    Maybe Stafford, Vick, Flacco, Dalton, Tebow, Newton, A. Smith, Palmer, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick

    Yes there are some chump QB's and some bad situations. I rate say Colt McCoy, Kyle Orton, Dan Orlovsky, T. Jackson as just such chump QB's. These you must rid yourself of, sooner rather than later, or dedicate as short term backups
    Last edited by Dreadnought; 12-21-2011 at 10:40 AM.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

  15. The Following 5 Users High Fived Dreadnought For This Post:


  16. #10
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    the arizona desert
    Adopted Bronco:
    george floyd little
    Posts
    5,703

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    I have to disagree here. I think there is a whole slew of 2nd tier QB's fully capable of winning a Superbowl. In the case of Eli Manning he actually did (I disagree that he is an elite QB, just very good). Jake DelHomme and Matt Hasselback came within a whisker of doing it as well, as did an old Kurt Warner. I would say the next tier down includes

    Jay Cutler
    Eli Manning
    Tony Romo
    Philip Rivers
    Matt Ryan
    Matt Schaub

    A third tier - guys who are capable or might be capable - or who the Hell knows...anyways, they are good enough to win regularly now or have won regularly in the past. They are guys with enough upside you don't go looking to replace them just yet, or who might well move up a level or two very soon.

    Maybe Stafford, Vick, Flacco, Dalton, Tebow, Newton, A. Smith, Palmer, Sanchez, Fitzpatrick

    Yes there are some chump QB's and some bad situations
    with few exceptions I like your list !
    but lets trey to remeber that EVERY QB listed here is dog meast without the right sytem, O-line, run game and play-calling.

  17. The Following 2 Users High Fived Chef Zambini For This Post:


  18. #11
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Adopted Bronco:
    Pat Bowlen
    Posts
    97,306

    Default

    I wish the guy hadn't used Orton, because you cannot have a rational discussion about Orton on a Broncos message board. He's the same as Orlovsky? Really?
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  19. The Following 2 Users High Fived MOtorboat For This Post:


  20. #12
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Adopted Bronco:
    Demaryius Thomas
    Posts
    31,252

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Zambini View Post
    with few exceptions I like your list !
    but lets trey to remeber that EVERY QB listed here is dog meast without the right sytem, O-line, run game and play-calling.
    For the most part you're right but how is that INDY system, OL, and running game without Manning?

    This season convinced me that Peyton Manning is the best QB ever. I have been called an idiot before for saying Manning has done more with less for years but I think this season proves it, at least somewhat.
    Let's Rid3!!!!

  21. The Following 3 Users High Fived chazoe60 For This Post:


  22. #13
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Little Elm, TX
    Adopted Bronco:
    #58
    Posts
    26,171

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Chef Zambini View Post
    CAM newton will get there.
    Matt stafford too.
    but regardless of the QB, he and his team aint going nowhere without a solid run game and capable defense.
    BRONCO fans should know this better than most!
    at least bronco fans over the age of 30.
    I think it use to be that way. But the Saints, Packers and Colts have proven that an opportunistic defense will help you get a title as much as a "good" defense will.

    If the two favorites (Green Bay and NE) play for the title this year, there is no better proof that a good defense is merely a luxury in todays NFL

  23. The Following 2 Users High Fived CoachChaz For This Post:


  24. #14
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Colorado
    Adopted Bronco:
    Justin Simmons
    Posts
    5,564

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by chazoe60 View Post
    For the most part you're right but how is that INDY system, OL, and running game without Manning?

    This season convinced me that Peyton Manning is the best QB ever. I have been called an idiot before for saying Manning has done more with less for years but I think this season proves it, at least somewhat.
    or their new hc is horrid. listen Marvin Harrison, Dallas Clark, Joseph Addai, Reggie Wayne, Edgerrin James are not slouches by any stretch. They've also always had great line play.

  25. #15
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Adopted Bronco:
    Pat Bowlen
    Posts
    97,306

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    I think it use to be that way. But the Saints, Packers and Colts have proven that an opportunistic defense will help you get a title as much as a "good" defense will.

    If the two favorites (Green Bay and NE) play for the title this year, there is no better proof that a good defense is merely a luxury in todays NFL
    I want to see how San Francisco does with that defense in the playoffs. They shut down Pittsburgh without Willis (granted Roethlisberger was not himself).
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  26. The Following User High Fived MOtorboat For This Post:


Go
Shop AFC Champions and Super Bowl gear at the official online Pro Shop of the Denver Broncos!

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
status.broncosforums.com - BroncosForums status updates
Partner with the USA Today Sports Media Group