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Thread: Sources tell SI Alex Rodriguez tested positive for steroids in 2003

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    Kudos to Cynthia for being there for A-Rod today. It would have been easy for her to turn her back on him so soon after the divorce. She deserves a lot of credit.




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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    Be honest:

    Did you forgive Giambi and Pettitte?

    I take it the ansewer is no. If not, how are you not a hypocrite?

    If you didn't forgive Giambi and Pettitte, it would make sense to not forgive A-Rod.
    You misinterpreted my quote about letting him go, probably linking them to my other comments. It wasn't about my forgiveness, it was about media scrutiny that will shatter, cripple and perhaps destroy an already fragile ego.

    http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/...3&postcount=25 - This link, I asked your thoughts, notice I didn't say he should be released as a roid user more than a major distraction to the team. They booed Jeter and Mariano once. What's to happen to the unlikable A-Rod?

    You may or may not remember my comments about A-Rod throughout the years, on the other Broncos forum. I damn him when he fails in the clutch, but I hate the fans for booing him into oblivion and blaming him primarily for the Yankees not winning it all. I supported A-Rod during the boos, supporting meaning let the guy play. I don't hate him, I don't like him, but the needle is more towards the dislike because of his lack of clutch play. As a Yankee fan, my expections are through the roof.

    When I said we should let him go because he'll receive the Charles Smith treatment, I was referring to the brutal criticism he's most likely going to get that will become a MAJOR distraction.

    For those who don't follow basketball or live in New York, Charles Smith was a power forward for the Knicks during their run against the Bulls in the 90s. He was involved in an infamous play that lives in Knicks folklore to this day and is considered one of, if not the worst play in the franchise's history. It was playoff series that was tied 2-2. Game 5 took place in Madison Square Garden. The Bulls led by one point with seconds left. Charles Smith received the ball under the basket and was stopped four times on the same play, which led to a Bulls victory. Knicks fans wanted Smith to go hard and take a foul. They called him soft, a west coast player on an east coast team. The next year, even though the Knicks made the NBA Finals, Smith was booed with every shot he missed. And it got to him. He was hesitant on a few plays. He tried to win the fans back but he couldn't. That play in 1993 lingered. His already damaged relationship with the fans was beyond repair.

    Now, knowing the fans blamed A-Rod for failing in the clutch as a clean player, what will our fellow brutal Yankee fans do when he fails as a now labeled dirty player, even if he's been off the stuff for over 5 years now?

    How does the Charles Smith play relate to A-Rod? Well for one, the relationship with the fans. He's not a performer in the clutch, and the pressure and boos from his own fans in the harshest media market in the world bother him to the point that it effects his play. Increase that with this accusation. THAT'S why I said the Yankees should release him. Not because he lied and got caught. But because he'll come under so much scrutiny for every error and every strikeout once again, but tenfold. It may be for his own good.

    I said nothing about not forgiving A-Rod. In fact, I want him to be a beast, in pinstripes or wherever because even though I'm not a fan of the person, I feel he gets TOO much heat and it would be nice to see him get some vindication.

    Did I forgive Pettitte and Giambi for steroid use, even after the apology for getting caught in lying? Not at the time. It took me a while but I eventually did and moved forward and rooted for them to bounce back. I was incredibly disappointed with Pettitte, not too shocked about Giambi. That's me though. I can't forgive right away because it hurts now. Do I forgive A-Rod? Not yet and I don't think it makes me a hypocrite because it took time for me to forgive Andy and Giambi, so why should I automatically forgive A-Rod. Now if I NEVER do because of his diva label then yeah, I'd see the label of being hypocritical. But just as before, I'm going to need time.

    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    Speaking for myself:

    I forgave Giambi for saying 2 words "I'm sorry".

    I forgave Pettitte despite his "I only used once.... OK, I only used twice..... OK, I only used _________" because an admission is an admission.

    Using the same standard, I have no problem forgiving A-Rod. I'm not going to dissect his confession because I didn't dissect Andy's. All 3 lied and confessed only after getting caught. "No comment" doesn't work. Denial doesn't work. Just ask Bonds and Clemens.

    I'm rooting for every player on my team.

    Bonus question: I rooted for Romanowski because of his uniform despite the fact it was painfully obvious that he used steroids. Did you root against him when he was with the Raiders (at least up to the time he tried to kill one of his teammates)? Just curious.

    I'm not going to preach to you or 420 (420 is too cute to preach to anyways ), just asking some questions and spelling out my stance:

    1. A-Rod made a huge series of mistakes.

    2. He lied.

    3. The HR record will still belong to Hank Aaron no matter how many A-Rod hits. His entire career remains under as much suspicion as Bonds'. I can't pick and choose "Clean from _____ to _____", Dirty from 2001 to 2003, Clean from 2004 and beyond". I can't do that. I'll leave that for red sox fans to do that with Clemens.... "He was clean until he joined the Blue Jays". Ummmm hmmmmm. Suuuuurrrrre. How convenient.

    4. A-Rod doesn't belong in the HOF. I won't acknowledge him if he's inducted.

    5. I accept his apology, but he's just 1 of the 25 now. Were he not on my team, I wouldn't pay a bit of attention to him.
    About Romanowski, yes, but I'm assuming you asked that thinking I'm not rooting for A-Rod. It's different because his admission came after his career was over.

    I'm rooting for A-Rod to move forward, I always wanted him to silence the boos. I'm just not in forgiving mode, especially when he did it at a time when he was one of, if not the best player in the game. This time next year, knowing me, I may forgive him, but not now. It's like someone apologizing to me right after getting caught and trying to touch me on my shoulder while I'm saying "Don't touch me. Not now. The wound is too fresh. I wanna be alone with my thoughts."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
    You misinterpreted my quote about letting him go, probably linking them to my other comments. It wasn't about my forgiveness, it was about media scrutiny that will shatter, cripple and perhaps destroy an already fragile ego.

    http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/...3&postcount=25 - This link, I asked your thoughts, notice I didn't say he should be released as a roid user more than a major distraction to the team. They booed Jeter and Mariano once. What's to happen to the unlikable A-Rod?

    You may or may not remember my comments about A-Rod throughout the years, on the other Broncos forum. I damn him when he fails in the clutch, but I hate the fans for booing him into oblivion and blaming him primarily for the Yankees not winning it all. I supported A-Rod during the boos, supporting meaning let the guy play. I don't hate him, I don't like him, but the needle is more towards the dislike because of his lack of clutch play. As a Yankee fan, my expections are through the roof.

    When I said we should let him go because he'll receive the Charles Smith treatment, I was referring to the brutal criticism he's most likely going to get that will become a MAJOR distraction.

    For those who don't follow basketball or live in New York, Charles Smith was a power forward for the Knicks during their run against the Bulls in the 90s. He was involved in an infamous play that lives in Knicks folklore to this day and is considered one of, if not the worst play in the franchise's history. It was playoff series that was tied 2-2. Game 5 took place in Madison Square Garden. The Bulls led by one point with seconds left. Charles Smith received the ball under the basket and was stopped four times on the same play, which led to a Bulls victory. Knicks fans wanted Smith to go hard and take a foul. They called him soft, a west coast player on an east coast team. The next year, even though the Knicks made the NBA Finals, Smith was booed with every shot he missed. And it got to him. He was hesitant on a few plays. He tried to win the fans back but he couldn't. That play in 1993 lingered. His already damaged relationship with the fans was beyond repair.

    Now, knowing the fans blamed A-Rod for failing in the clutch as a clean player, what will our fellow brutal Yankee fans do when he fails as a now labeled dirty player, even if he's been off the stuff for over 5 years now?

    How does the Charles Smith play relate to A-Rod? Well for one, the relationship with the fans. He's not a performer in the clutch, and the pressure and boos from his own fans in the harshest media market in the world bother him to the point that it effects his play. Increase that with this accusation. THAT'S why I said the Yankees should release him. Not because he lied and got caught. But because he'll come under so much scrutiny for every error and every strikeout once again, but tenfold. It may be for his own good.

    I said nothing about not forgiving A-Rod. In fact, I want him to be a beast, in pinstripes or wherever because even though I'm not a fan of the person, I feel he gets TOO much heat and it would be nice to see him get some vindication.

    Did I forgive Pettitte and Giambi for steroid use, even after the apology for getting caught in lying? Not at the time. It took me a while but I eventually did and moved forward and rooted for them to bounce back. I was incredibly disappointed with Pettitte, not too shocked about Giambi. That's me though. I can't forgive right away because it hurts now. Do I forgive A-Rod? Not yet and I don't think it makes me a hypocrite because it took time for me to forgive Andy and Giambi, so why should I automatically forgive A-Rod. Now if I NEVER do because of his diva label then yeah, I'd see the label of being hypocritical. But just as before, I'm going to need time.


    About Romanowski, yes, but I'm assuming you asked that thinking I'm not rooting for A-Rod. It's different because his admission came after his career was over.

    I'm rooting for A-Rod to move forward, I always wanted him to silence the boos. I'm just not in forgiving mode, especially when he did it at a time when he was one of, if not the best player in the game. This time next year, knowing me, I may forgive him, but not now. It's like someone apologizing to me right after getting caught and trying to touch me on my shoulder while I'm saying "Don't touch me. Not now. The wound is too fresh. I wanna be alone with my thoughts."

    My phone wouldn't stop ringing this morning. I was probably on the phone as I read that post, but I didn't even catch the "should release him" part.

    Bill Madden (wrote the article you refer to) says yes. I say no. He's almost as high on my $@#& list as Lupica. If you ever catch me agreeing with either of them, I'm probably not feeling well. I'm probably the wrong person to ask about anything written by Madden or Lupica. I very rarely pay attention to the NY papers as is. I don't care for the Times, hate the Daily News, and loathe the Post with every fiber of my being. Tabloids do nothing for me. Lohud and NJ.com work just fine. I read a few blogs (Chad Jennings writes my favorite) and Pinstripes Plus religiously.

    Madden is a moron. He was a writer when Bonds/Sosa/McGwire were running after records and waits until now to say someone should be released. He constantly trashes the Yankees minor league system, claiming we have nothing to look forward to from home grown players in the near future. I've been furious at him for over a year and disregard everything he says. Trashing our minor leaguers = making me go from zero to furious in the blink of an eye.

    I have nothing in common with the "fans" that booed A-Rod and I won't pay heed to them. I've never booed a Yankee, nor will I in the future. It just isn't in me. Reality dictates that no one will release a player with $245 + mil. left on his deal. You don't release a player of his talent. It isn't going to happen. I've been wrong before, but am willing to risk a "mark my words" on this one.
    The boo birds targeted Mantle and Mo once upon a time. F them. The same breed made Maris' life a living hell.... makes my blood boil just thinking about it. I'm fully aware that I can't do so physically from here in Kansas, but, at least in spirit, it is my sworn duty to be the antithesis to everything they represent. Take that for whatever it's worth. I don't care if they boo or who they target. I will back every member of my teams: The GCL Yankees, Staten Island, Charleston, Tampa, Trenton, Scranton, and the big team. I follow each and every one of those teams religiously.

    The first 2 comments I've seen were from Bruney and Posada. More will be forthcoming. Posada has his back (Bruney, too). Good enough for me.

    I was curious of your stance on Pettitte/Giambi. No, needing time to forgive A-Rod isn't hypocritical. It wouldn't be hypocritical to have forgiven none of them, either. Picking and choosing among those guilty of the same crime is what I would have a problem with.

    The only differences between Bonds and A-Rod in my book:
    1 wears a Yankees uniform
    1 came clean

    Neither belongs in the HOF. Hank Aaron will remain the HR king for a long time. Right or wrong, that's my stance and it won't change.

    A-Rod's story is easy to deal with compared to Pettitte's. Nettles has always been my 3B. He'll never have a challenger. Mattingly will always be my favorite Yankee. Pettitte was one of my top 4 current players until his HGH use was revealed. Jeter, Mo, and Posada are tied at the top of my current list.

    These days, it takes time for players from other organizations to get my full acceptance. It takes rings to join my elite list for non home grown players. Damon is an exception because I've thought the world of him since his Royals debut. Moose put in the required time. A-Rod met neither requirement. He was the most talented player I've ever seen, but that went out the window Saturday. He means no more to me than any other player on the team and has only himself to blame. I'll root like hell for him, but that's it.

    I asked about Romanowski because I had no question he used steroids as a member of the Broncos (I knew it when he joined the team). I assumed Raiders fans were under the same impression, but that's a matter of opinion/perspective because he didn't test positive until the end of his career. I rooted for him in his Broncos tenure, but was happy to see him leave.




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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    My phone wouldn't stop ringing this morning. I was probably on the phone as I read that post, but I didn't even catch the "should release him" part.

    Bill Madden (wrote the article you refer to) says yes. I say no. He's almost as high on my $@#& list as Lupica. If you ever catch me agreeing with either of them, I'm probably not feeling well. I'm probably the wrong person to ask about anything written by Madden or Lupica. I very rarely pay attention to the NY papers as is. I don't care for the Times, hate the Daily News, and loathe the Post with every fiber of my being. Tabloids do nothing for me. Lohud and NJ.com work just fine. I read a few blogs (Chad Jennings writes my favorite) and Pinstripes Plus religiously.

    Madden is a moron. He was a writer when Bonds/Sosa/McGwire were running after records and waits until now to say someone should be released. He constantly trashes the Yankees minor league system, claiming we have nothing to look forward to from home grown players in the near future. I've been furious at him for over a year and disregard everything he says. Trashing our minor leaguers = making me go from zero to furious in the blink of an eye.

    I have nothing in common with the "fans" that booed A-Rod and I won't pay heed to them. I've never booed a Yankee, nor will I in the future. It just isn't in me. Reality dictates that no one will release a player with $245 + mil. left on his deal. You don't release a player of his talent. It isn't going to happen. I've been wrong before, but am willing to risk a "mark my words" on this one.
    The boo birds targeted Mantle and Mo once upon a time. F them. The same breed made Maris' life a living hell.... makes my blood boil just thinking about it. I'm fully aware that I can't do so physically from here in Kansas, but, at least in spirit, it is my sworn duty to be the antithesis to everything they represent. Take that for whatever it's worth. I don't care if they boo or who they target. I will back every member of my teams: The GCL Yankees, Staten Island, Charleston, Tampa, Trenton, Scranton, and the big team. I follow each and every one of those teams religiously.

    The first 2 comments I've seen were from Bruney and Posada. More will be forthcoming. Posada has his back (Bruney, too). Good enough for me.

    I was curious of your stance on Pettitte/Giambi. No, needing time to forgive A-Rod isn't hypocritical. It wouldn't be hypocritical to have forgiven none of them, either. Picking and choosing among those guilty of the same crime is what I would have a problem with.

    The only differences between Bonds and A-Rod in my book:
    1 wears a Yankees uniform
    1 came clean

    Neither belongs in the HOF. Hank Aaron will remain the HR king for a long time. Right or wrong, that's my stance and it won't change.

    A-Rod's story is easy to deal with compared to Pettitte's. Nettles has always been my 3B. He'll never have a challenger. Mattingly will always be my favorite Yankee. Pettitte was one of my top 4 current players until his HGH use was revealed. Jeter, Mo, and Posada are tied at the top of my current list.

    These days, it takes time for players from other organizations to get my full acceptance. It takes rings to join my elite list for non home grown players. Damon is an exception because I've thought the world of him since his Royals debut. Moose put in the required time. A-Rod met neither requirement. He was the most talented player I've ever seen, but that went out the window Saturday. He means no more to me than any other player on the team and has only himself to blame. I'll root like hell for him, but that's it.

    I asked about Romanowski because I had no question he used steroids as a member of the Broncos (I knew it when he joined the team). I assumed Raiders fans were under the same impression, but that's a matter of opinion/perspective because he didn't test positive until the end of his career. I rooted for him in his Broncos tenure, but was happy to see him leave.
    Lupica makes me laugh. I'm indifferent towards Madden.

    I'm with you about rings. Actually it's best that A-Rod didn't win a ring with us yet. He can vindicate himself in most eyes by carrying his team in the clutch to the championship or just coming in the clutch period. This could re-write his chapter in NYC. Anything else and he's a lifetime villain.

    It's usually a case by case basis on how disappointed I am, even though they all get the same initial level of non-forgiveness from me. Depending on what they do going forward determines if I will ever forgive them:

    Pettitte - Disapointing being that he was a self proclaimed "man of God." Almost a baseball version of Kurt Warner. Had commercials about his faith. Humble, soft spoken, great player for us. I'm glad he didn't do it during the dynasty, but he did it. I forgave him but he disappointed me the most (so far).

    Clemens, Palmiero - Flat out liars. No forgiveness.

    McGuire - Don't want to talk about the past then let's not talk about forgiveness.

    Sosa - This is a personal one because I went to junior high and high school with his cousin. Still, I didn't forgive him when he had one of the most impromtu language barrier moments in history. Comical. No forgiveness, and I told his cousin that too, although I still root for him a bit to repair the damage he did.

    Bonds - Man he's riding this until the wheels fall off. No forgivness until he admits it, then we'll see. Probably not.

    Giambi - I eventually forgave him and I rooted so hard for him during his comeback.

    Fernando Vina - Didn't care about the player, but I liked how he carried himself. I forgave him eventually.

    Paul Byrd - Gave excuses. I actually liked Paul Byrd for the last decade. I'm still on the fence.

    Lyle Alzado - I remember his attempted comeback for the Raiders, I think it was 90 or 91. Guy was HUGE at that point, but we all knew. This was the first time steroids hit home. I forgave him, he came from an era where he was one of many. Sad circumstance, if the roids did cause his cancer. It was a soft spot for me and it's because of him that I have this long period of not forgiving.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
    Lupica makes me laugh. I'm indifferent towards Madden.

    I'm with you about rings. Actually it's best that A-Rod didn't win a ring with us yet. He can vindicate himself in most eyes by carrying his team in the clutch to the championship or just coming in the clutch period. This could re-write his chapter in NYC. Anything else and he's a lifetime villain.

    It's usually a case by case basis on how disappointed I am, even though they all get the same initial level of non-forgiveness from me. Depending on what they do going forward determines if I will ever forgive them:

    Pettitte - Disapointing being that he was a self proclaimed "man of God." Almost a baseball version of Kurt Warner. Had commercials about his faith. Humble, soft spoken, great player for us. I'm glad he didn't do it during the dynasty, but he did it. I forgave him but he disappointed me the most (so far).

    Clemens, Palmiero - Flat out liars. No forgiveness.

    McGuire - Don't want to talk about the past then let's not talk about forgiveness.

    Sosa - This is a personal one because I went to junior high and high school with his cousin. Still, I didn't forgive him when he had one of the most impromtu language barrier moments in history. Comical. No forgiveness, and I told his cousin that too, although I still root for him a bit to repair the damage he did.

    Bonds - Man he's riding this until the wheels fall off. No forgivness until he admits it, then we'll see. Probably not.

    Giambi - I eventually forgave him and I rooted so hard for him during his comeback.

    Fernando Vina - Didn't care about the player, but I liked how he carried himself. I forgave him eventually.

    Paul Byrd - Gave excuses. I actually liked Paul Byrd for the last decade. I'm still on the fence.

    Lyle Alzado - I remember his attempted comeback for the Raiders, I think it was 90 or 91. Guy was HUGE at that point, but we all knew. This was the first time steroids hit home. I forgave him, he came from an era where he was one of many. Sad circumstance, if the roids did cause his cancer. It was a soft spot for me and it's because of him that I have this long period of not forgiving.
    LOL. I'm just the wrong guy to ask about Madden and Lupica. I won't even pretend to be objective in my thoughts of them.


    Lyle Alzado. I loved him as a Bronco. I was just a kid and new nothing about steroids back then. I only saw him in his last 2 years as a Bronco. One of the saddest stories in sports. He still has a place in my pantheon of favorites. Had I known then what I know now, that wouldn't have been the case, but I'll still give him an exception to my normal rules. R.I.P. , Lyle.

    Sosa's language barrier moment made me laugh too hard to be as upset with him to the level of the others. I never cared for the guy, but his entertainment value in front of congress was off the charts. The dumbest defense strategy ever? Yeah, but it almost worked... sort of.... in the eyes of some. Reminded me a bit of Garrett Morris on SNL. I always loved Chico Escuela.


    I not only share Pettitte's faith, but stumble and fall all the time despite knowing better. I can certainly understand the human aspect of what he did, but that doesn't lessen how much it hurt me.




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    I guess I feel bad for athletes in this sense. If you do cheat, you are looked at as an awful human being.

    If Barry Bonds is a damn liar, and a cheat, but a great a great father, and a great man in his community, what does that make him? Honestly, I think if you are a great dad and a great community guy, it outweights cheating in a game.

    Bonds was the first player who came to mind, you could insert A-Rod, Sosa, etc etc etc etc.

    Who knows in the end, right?

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    Do I have to say it? OK. Peter Gammons was very classy today.




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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    Do I have to say it? OK. Peter Gammons was very classy today.
    Gammons is very good at his job.

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    When asked why Alex lied to Katie Couric, he said: "at the time, Peter, I wasn't even being truthful with myself. How am I going to be truthful with Katie or CBS?"

    Um, isn't that like, lying? I think that one answer will get critiqued more than anything else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
    When asked why Alex lied to Katie Couric, he said: "at the time, Peter, I wasn't even being truthful with myself. How am I going to be truthful with Katie or CBS?"

    Um, isn't that like, lying? I think that one answer will get critiqued more than anything else.
    I think he gave it a real answer. He was asked why he did it. It was a legitimate answer. I wasn't being honest with myself, why would I then be honest with others?

    It doesn't excuse it, but that is actually more of a direct answer than most questions get. Well, at least as far as steriods and cheating questions go.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rocky Mountain Stampede View Post
    Although I am certain Sosa did PEDs, I don't see how anybody can lump him into that group of players without any concrete evidence against him.
    His response. I studied it a lot because his english isn't perfect, but it's not like for example El Duque who recently started conducting interviews without a translator. El Duque was just learning the language and while his english is very broken, it's not crippling to where he needs to go back to the translator.

    If it was a player who always had a translator with him during interviews, then yeah. Sure people would've doubted him if he said no, but the fact that he has a bunch of press conferences during his homerun chase, then all of a sudden he can't speak it at all? It hurt him. What's sad is that he's Dominican pride, Latino pride, a player who has so many accomplishments that's heroic and iconic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
    When asked why Alex lied to Katie Couric, he said: "at the time, Peter, I wasn't even being truthful with myself. How am I going to be truthful with Katie or CBS?"

    Um, isn't that like, lying? I think that one answer will get critiqued more than anything else.
    I have a giant problem with grading his confession. Yes, he cheated. Yes, he lied. Yes, he had the chance to come clean during the Couric interview. With those things in mind, how many of the 103 unnamed saw the Couric interview and decided to lead by example with a full confession? The same number that stepped forward today and followed his lead after the Gammons interview.




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    Quote Originally Posted by Devilspawn View Post
    When asked why Alex lied to Katie Couric, he said: "at the time, Peter, I wasn't even being truthful with myself. How am I going to be truthful with Katie or CBS?"

    Um, isn't that like, lying? I think that one answer will get critiqued more than anything else.
    I think the answer that will get critiqued the most, which is the one I have been critiquing the most, is when he was almost preaching this it was the culture of the game crap (when he was being asked about people), and then when Gammon's asked him about the culture of the game, he said, "I kind of have tunnel vision so I don't look left or right, and I couldn't really tell you much about the "culture" or the clubhouse."




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    poor a-roid, the pressure of his $250 million deal was just too much. . .


    SMH
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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