Thread: Student's Tebowing in the hallway get suspended.

Originally Posted by bcbronc

okay, so why did you say this to me: "As far as your "Islamaphobia" allegation, are you going to deny that many schools allow Muslims to participate in noontime prayer at school? It's a fact that they do."

I fail to see why Islam has been mentioned in this thread at all, except to continue propagating ignorance and intolerance.



I didn't click to read your thread, but if the response was as you said (and I have no reason to believe otherwise) then you're likely aware of the stigma Muslims face in your country. If so, I'm a bit disappointed you choose to reinforce that intolerance in this thread.

The one and only post that you could possibly be interpreting as anti-Islamic intolerance was post #17...

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I'm just guessing if these students decided to sprawl out a rug, bow face-first towards Mecca and begin praying the school officials wouldn't have tried to have them suspended. Tebowing is akin to Christian prayer in school and the administrators are dead set against any of that going on.

OH is clearly asking whether or not Muslims would be held to the same standard as Christians. We'll never know here in Phoenix because the schools do provide a privet room for Muslim students to pray in. This is a fact that I now from my time serving the Muslim refugee community, and I have no problem with it as long as Christians are given the same accommodations. I don't know how much things may or may not have changed, but I know that there was a lot of opposition to us having Christian Clubs on campus in the mid-80's. If the Muslim are going to get special rooms set aside for them to pray, then we should be allowed to have and to open promote our school clubs. If Muslims want to start their own clubs, I fully support their right to do so.

Originally Posted by bcbronc

nope, not just because there's a problem between Christian and non, but the specific problem of a Christian being asked not to "shove it down other's throat" tends to have similar story arcs. It's possible that in your situation, all you did was briefly mentioned your Church's program once or twice. It's also possible it became the dominant theme whenever you were present. I don't know, I wasn't there.

I do know I have never been around a group of people who asked a person of faith (of whichever brand) to stop shoving it down their throats just because they made their religion known, or mentioned it once or twice. I also know I've been around people, usually Christians, that take every opportunity they can to bring up their religion. Ask them why, and they'll usually say it's their duty as a [insert faith here]. These people can often be aggressive, and frequently don't respect requests to change the subject. I hope you're not one of those Christians, Fan, because I've always found they turned off way more than they converted.

I didn't say the whole group was doing it, I said that one of our group’s co-organizers is doing it. The other co-organizer, Sue, is a placatory that won't stand up to anyone. There's only one other hard-core God hater in that group. It very clear that the majority of the group, including those who don't embrace Christianity, are buying into the core of my message which isn't center on my theological belief system.

As far as when am I bringing up these issues? During the announcement portion when everyone gets a chance to inform the group about autism related programs & activates outside the group. My objective is to convince them to try a different meeting format based more on us sharing our personal experiences rather than listening to an expert lecture us on a subject. It may not seem like a big deal to most of you because learning for our mutual experiences format have been used successfully for numerous groups over the years, but the format is contrary to the only way things have been done in the Autistic community.

Therefore, I do need to provide some precedent that explains why they should try it. All of my precedent is from church groups that I've been involved with. When I say that I'm barrowing elements from the 12 step group that I was involved in doesn't mean that I'm running a 12 step group. It simply means that there are some things that we did there that I believe will work for Autistics, such as learning about ourselves by listening to each other's personal experiences. It's for this that Tara has accused me of shoving my religion down everyone throat.

Originally Posted by FanInAZ

The one and only post that you could possibly be interpreting as anti-Islamic intolerance was post #17...



OH is clearly asking whether or not Muslims would be held to the same standard as Christians. We'll never know here in Phoenix because the schools do provide a privet room for Muslim students to pray in. This is a fact that I now from my time serving the Muslim refugee community, and I have no problem with it as long as Christians are given the same accommodations. I don't know how much things may or may not have changed, but I know that there was a lot of opposition to us having Christian Clubs on campus in the mid-80's. If the Muslim are going to get special rooms set aside for them to pray, then we should be allowed to have and to open promote our school clubs. If Muslims want to start their own clubs, I fully support their right to do so.



I didn't say the whole group was doing it, I said that one of our group’s co-organizers is doing it. The other co-organizer, Sue, is a placatory that won't stand up to anyone. There's only one other hard-core God hater in that group. It very clear that the majority of the group, including those who don't embrace Christianity, are buying into the core of my message which isn't center on my theological belief system.

As far as when am I bringing up these issues? During the announcement portion when everyone gets a chance to inform the group about autism related programs & activates outside the group. My objective is to convince them to try a different meeting format based more on us sharing our personal experiences rather than listening to an expert lecture us on a subject. It may not seem like a big deal to most of you because learning for our mutual experiences format have been used successfully for numerous groups over the years, but the format is contrary to the only way things have been done in the Autistic community.

Therefore, I do need to provide some precedent that explains why they should try it. All of my precedent is from church groups that I've been involved with. When I say that I'm barrowing elements from the 12 step group that I was involved in doesn't mean that I'm running a 12 step group. It simply means that there are some things that we did there that I believe will work for Autistics, such as learning about ourselves by listening to each other's personal experiences. It's for this that Tara has accused me of shoving my religion down everyone throat.

As an innocent bystander to the conversation it appears this discussion may be getting sidetracked. Lets not get into talks about religion or race. It hasn't got worked out in over 2000 years it probably wont get solved on this forum.

Can we limit it to whether or not we thought it was an overreaction by the administrators at the school and leave the social implications out of it.

Personally I think the schools overreacted, but have no choice but to do so for liability reasons. Slippery slope and all that

Originally Posted by bcbronc

shit, took 17 whole posts before someone used the "prosecuted christian" card. Even got a little Islamaphobia to boot, didn't see that coming! Well done!

I think he's prolly closer to correct than you want to believe.

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Eh. The principal is probably a Sooner.

Originally Posted by camdisco24

So you can make a bunch of generalizations, but no one else can. Got it.

Great double standard post!

Its a canadian thing. ;')

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Let me just clarify one point. When I said "Tebowing is akin to Christian prayer in school" I meant from an administrative standpoint, not the standpoint of the Tebowers.

What is Tim Tebow doing when he is "tebowing"? Catching his breath? Looking up the skirts of the cheerleaders? Praising Allah? No, he's making a brief prayer of thanks to his Christian God.

It makes no difference what the intent of others are when they are in that position. It could be used as a position of prayer and, therefore, the school administrators have to approach it as a possible insertion of Christianity into their school which public school administrators feel is expressly forbidden.

If they were to allow a bunch of mocking Tebowers to block the hall, what legal ground do they have to stand on if actual Christians wanted to pray in that same pose in the same place? Should the school censor one but not the other? On what grounds?

Ironically or not, Jesus encountered the same thing with the Pharisees. They had created a whole bunch of laws to prevent people from even trying to do what they saw as unlawful. They're like the cities now trying to outlaw electronic cigarettes because they look like cigarettes being smoked in non-smoking areas even though they don't produce any harmful smoke which was the whole premise of banning smoking.

So, to make absolutely sure nobody is praying Christian prayers in their schools, the schools ban tebowing whether the tebowers are actually praying or not.

Never underestimate the stupidity of the U.S. Public Education system. Add in the fact that Long Island is inherently a very silly place and you get this result.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I'm just guessing if these students decided to sprawl out a rug, bow face-first towards Mecca and begin praying the school officials wouldn't have tried to have them suspended. Tebowing is akin to Christian prayer in school and the administrators are dead set against any of that going on.

It has nothing to do with religion. High schools have become like jail cells, you can't do shit without getting in trouble.

That HS is a joke and should be contracted from the USA.

Originally Posted by dbfan2007

One of the kids talked to ESPN about an hour or so ago. He said "if they would have told us to stop, we would have."

http://espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/stor...ended-tebowing

Two of the four student athletes were warned:

Riverhead superintendent Nancy Carney said that two of the students' suspensions were later rescinded, citing that administrators found that those students were not given the same warnings that the other two were.

Of course, the two that were warned - no chance they told any of the 40 students that were doing this BS.

Personally, go get an education. What does doing this crap in the hallway have anything to do with anything?

If it's really about praying (yeah, right) I supposed it's entirely coincidental that Tebowing is now popular. You've been wanting to pray in the hallway, on the floor, between classes, for your entire juvenile life.

Far more likely, the kids are being kids. If so, as I said, they were warned, they got suspended.

Big Deal.

It's basically just like telling occupy wall street dudes to ****. These kids were blocking the way and causing disruptions it seems judging by the video.

Breaking news! A student, who wishes to remain anonymous, reported that he
looked in the lower left drawer in the principal's desk and discovered an Orton
jersey.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I'm just guessing if these students decided to sprawl out a rug, bow face-first towards Mecca and begin praying the school officials wouldn't have tried to have them suspended. Tebowing is akin to Christian prayer in school and the administrators are dead set against any of that going on.

In the ESPN call in referenced earlier the kid said (twice) they were paying "tribute to Tebow" (precisely the sort of thing that bothered me about Tebowing in the first place.) Unless the Christian Church changed deities when I wasn't looking, Tebowing is not akin to Christian prayer in school. And Christian, Muslim or Moonie, when groups of kids block hallways between classes for a minute at a time three days straight (as the kid in the call in also stated they did,) they'll receive disciplinary action. You have the right to pray; you don't have the right to stop traffic while you do it.

Originally Posted by camdisco24

But is he wrong?

Yes. Unequivocally.

Originally Posted by camdisco24

Plus, I dont see how that could be taken as "Islamaphobia"

Probably because he specifically referenced Islam. To be fair, it did seem to have the tone of "any religion EXCEPT Christianity would not be treated this way." Turns out Christianity wasn't involved in their "tribute" though.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Breaking news! A student, who wishes to remain anonymous, reported that he
looked in the lower left drawer in the principal's desk and discovered an Orton
jersey.

Welcome back Top

Originally Posted by Joel

Yes. Unequivocally.

ehh, comes to to opinion honestly.

Probably because he specifically referenced Islam. To be fair, it did seem to have the tone of "any religion EXCEPT Christianity would not be treated this way." Turns out Christianity wasn't involved in their "tribute" though.

Agreed Christianity wasn't involved.

However, I am not that far removed from the public schooling system (3 years) and I can tell you first hand, Christianity gets treated MUCH differently than any other religion or view when it comes to regulation in schools. We had a discussion about this a few months ago with my buddies and it actually sounds like it is worse up north than down south, but its certainly not a regional thing. Not really a discussion for the main broncos section, but that's my input.