Thread: Eagles-Cardinals NFC Championship Preview

Originally Posted by King87

Samuel is a player that has a big name because of his INTs. He is from the same mold that Cromartie from SD. People love CBs with INTs, it's the easiest way for people to find out who is good. Sameul never had coverage skills that were elite, and at this point Fitzgerald is looking like he can't be stopped.

So while I have the Cardinals losing, the fact remains that the Cardinals are facing a blitz happy defense that has overrated flashy CBs. If the blitz doesn't get there it's going to be hard for the Eagles.

I have to disagree. That's like saying Bailey is a stud because he had big interception numbers. Oddly enough his big season for numbers was the same year as Samuel's. Asante only had 4 this year, but his benefit comes from the fact that he plays in a VERY good secondary. Other teams cant really throw away from him regularly because Sheldon Brown is very capable on the other side and Quintin Mickell and Brian Dawkins are Pro-Bowl caliber safeties.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I have to disagree. That's like saying Bailey is a stud because he had big interception numbers. Oddly enough his big season for numbers was the same year as Samuel's. Asante only had 4 this year, but his benefit comes from the fact that he plays in a VERY good secondary. Other teams cant really throw away from him regularly because Sheldon Brown is very capable on the other side and Quintin Mickell and Brian Dawkins are Pro-Bowl caliber safeties.

Bailey is a stud first and foremost because he can cover damn near any WR and blank him. It was never his INTs that made him truly HOF great, those were just the plays that got him time on ESPN and thus widely known.

Samuel is a good coverman. Fitzgerald is playing like a great WR. I see the same thing in this game that I did when the Cardinals played ATL and Carolina. A nice defensive steam with a good pass rush and a suspect secondary that is overrated.

I'm not saying he's bad, or that he isn't good, but you really need a great CB to cover Fitz. If you have to double him then the rest of the Arizona team benefits greatly. Breaston isn't great but he did get 1k yards. I haven't heard that Boldin is out, I don't know if this is updated yet but:http://www.nfl.com/injuries

I think the Eagles win, but the Cardinals will definitely be there with them.

Originally Posted by King87

Bailey is a stud first and foremost because he can cover damn near any WR and blank him. It was never his INTs that made him truly HOF great, those were just the plays that got him time on ESPN and thus widely known.

Samuel is a good coverman. Fitzgerald is playing like a great WR. I see the same thing in this game that I did when the Cardinals played ATL and Carolina. A nice defensive steam with a good pass rush and a suspect secondary that is overrated.

I'm not saying he's bad, or that he isn't good, but you really need a great CB to cover Fitz. If you have to double him then the rest of the Arizona team benefits greatly. Breaston isn't great but he did get 1k yards. I haven't heard that Boldin is out, I don't know if this is updated yet but:http://www.nfl.com/injuries

I think the Eagles win, but the Cardinals will definitely be there with them.

I dont know that I'd call their secondary overrated. Sheldon Brown has been playing very well for a few years, Samuel has been a stud for a few and Dawkins has been doing it forever. Mickell stepped up this year and probably played better than any of them.

If Boldin does play, his groin/hamstring/whatever will limit his production. braston could be a weapon, I guess, but it always seemed to me that alot of his yards came as a benefit of defenses trying to double-team TWO stud WR's in Fitz and AB

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I dont know that I'd call their secondary overrated. Sheldon Brown has been playing very well for a few years, Samuel has been a stud for a few and Dawkins has been doing it forever. Mickell stepped up this year and probably played better than any of them.

If Boldin does play, his groin/hamstring/whatever will limit his production. braston could be a weapon, I guess, but it always seemed to me that alot of his yards came as a benefit of defenses trying to double-team TWO stud WR's in Fitz and AB

Lito Sheppard, people. He is the best CB on that team, with Brown running second (regardless of the starters on that team). Samuel is a starter because Sheppard doesn't want to be there, and they paid Samuel too much not to start him.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I dont know that I'd call their secondary overrated. Sheldon Brown has been playing very well for a few years, Samuel has been a stud for a few and Dawkins has been doing it forever. Mickell stepped up this year and probably played better than any of them.

If Boldin does play, his groin/hamstring/whatever will limit his production. braston could be a weapon, I guess, but it always seemed to me that alot of his yards came as a benefit of defenses trying to double-team TWO stud WR's in Fitz and AB

I know that I would. They just don't impress me. They are hard smash mouth guys, but they aren't great coverage guys. Samuel was always overrated. He got so much hype for being a flashy CB on a flashy huge point team.

Boldin will still have to be accounted for, and when you look at what he has done even if you do limit it he can still be a big deal. Fitzgerald has inevitablility. Before the game ends he is going to do something insane and you can't stop it.

Eagles win, but it won't be a blowout unless Warner just starts dropping the ball all crazy like.

Wow. I appreciate your assessment...just never heard the Eagles secondary called overrated before.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Wow. I appreciate your assessment...just never heard the Eagles secondary called overrated before.

If they shut down the Cardinals and cover the hell out of their offensive players I will be here to admit that I was wrong.

Originally Posted by King87

If they shut down the Cardinals and cover the hell out of their offensive players I will be here to admit that I was wrong.

"Shutting down" the Cardinals passing game is something no one has really been able to do. That's a rather lofty standard you are holding them to.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

"Shutting down" the Cardinals passing game is something no one has really been able to do. That's a rather lofty standard you are holding them to.

Other teams have been able to do it. I don't think stopping a team's primary function of winning is lofty.

So what's the definition of "shutting them down"? Hold Warner to under 300 yards? 250? 200? Maybe intercept him 2 or 3 times?

I mean if he throws for 260 and 2 TD's but gets picked off 3 times and sacked 4 times, is that enough to determine he was "shut down"?

Only twice this season was Warner held under 200 yards passing and in both of those games, the running game was able to eclipse the century mark. If he's forced to throw the ball 40-45 times in this game, he'll undoubtedly rack up a few yards,s o the definition of being "shut down" is completely vague

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

So what's the definition of "shutting them down"? Hold Warner to under 300 yards? 250? 200? Maybe intercept him 2 or 3 times?

I mean if he throws for 260 and 2 TD's but gets picked off 3 times and sacked 4 times, is that enough to determine he was "shut down"?

Only twice this season was Warner held under 200 yards passing and in both of those games, the running game was able to eclipse the century mark. If he's forced to throw the ball 40-45 times in this game, he'll undoubtedly rack up a few yards,s o the definition of being "shut down" is completely vague

If you are a CB and the WR you cover gets more than 80 yards you most likely failed miserably. Sure, if your in the prevent and the man catches a 20 yard pass or so that's one thing.

What I am saying is that the Eagles DBs benefit greatly from their pass rush. If teams had more time to throw on them they would do far worse. Obviously that's true, but even when you factor in that all secondaries would be worse it's still true.

They benefit from their pass rush the same way an average RB benefits from a really good line. You really think that their secondary is that good at coverage? Sameuls has always been overrated, the rest of their secondary is older and slower for the most part. They are not that good. I remember watching them play Cincinnati and having a hard time covering a banged up bengals WR corp. I remember watching the second Giants Eagles game and I kept seeing the Giants guys get open. I'm sorry, their good but I still think you overrate them.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Wow. I appreciate your assessment...just never heard the Eagles secondary called overrated before.

I think they are good Coach. We all have differing views.

but we all know that the secondary is only as good as the front 7 and right now the Eagles Front 7 is playing very well.

It should be a fun game to watch. I cant wait.

I envision an Eagles vs Ravens Super Bowl.

Originally Posted by King87

If you are a CB and the WR you cover gets more than 80 yards you most likely failed miserably. Sure, if your in the prevent and the man catches a 20 yard pass or so that's one thing.

What I am saying is that the Eagles DBs benefit greatly from their pass rush. If teams had more time to throw on them they would do far worse. Obviously that's true, but even when you factor in that all secondaries would be worse it's still true.

They benefit from their pass rush the same way an average RB benefits from a really good line. You really think that their secondary is that good at coverage? Sameuls has always been overrated, the rest of their secondary is older and slower for the most part. They are not that good. I remember watching them play Cincinnati and having a hard time covering a banged up bengals WR corp. I remember watching the second Giants Eagles game and I kept seeing the Giants guys get open. I'm sorry, their good but I still think you overrate them.

I guess the same can be said for any secondary. Without a pass rush...even the best DB's can get torched.

As far as the Eagles secondary being old...I dont think any of them are over 30 with the exception of Dawkins and there is no denying his abilities out there.

We can just agree to disagree, I suppose

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I guess the same can be said for any secondary. Without a pass rush...even the best DB's can get torched.

As far as the Eagles secondary being old...I dont think any of them are over 30 with the exception of Dawkins and there is no denying his abilities out there.

We can just agree to disagree, I suppose

I don't think it is fair to say that though. Yes, every DB who plays on a good pass rush team will benefit. What I am saying is that I feel and have always felt that their secondary has always been a weak part of their team. The pass rush covers up that deficiency

Oh the Cards. Not having Boldin sure did not hurt them agianst the Panthers, yes Philly is a better defense but Arizona knows how to play without Boldin. As for the Eagles I don't see them blowing Arizona out of the water unless like mentioned above Warner just goes into the tank.

Its just really hard to judge this team (ARI), because again everyone thinks they are going to get rolled. James has been better but not to the extent that OMG the Cards have a huge threat now! I must say Arizona's defense has really surprised me this post season and in my mind Philly does not have anything that they can't handle. Westbrook has been quite all post season outside of that screen play against the Vikings and he is dealing with a high ankle sprain so most likely will be quite again this weekend.

I see the Eagles D making one or two more plays and McNabb somehow does enough with his WR to get past his second NFC Championship game with a 27-17 victory.