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Thread: Spread Option a viable offense?

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    Default Spread Option a viable offense?

    OAKLAND, Calif. — Football on Sundays has become an aerial show. Knowing that Tim Tebow is not a conventional Sunday quarterback, the Broncos' coaching staff came up with an innovative idea against the Oakland Raiders: They brought football back to Saturdays.

    Using a read-option running attack that hasn't been seen in the NFL since . . . since . . . since when? Since before helmets had face masks? Anyway, the Broncos defeated the Oakland Raiders 38-24 at O.co Coliseum on Sunday in an AFC West game that was widely characterized as an upset.
    Rest of article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...169?source=rss

    From what we saw yesterday it CAN be effective at the NFL level. I'm not sure it's worth building around but I think it's something that should continue to be used even if sparingly to catch defenses off guard.
    Last edited by CrazyHorse; 11-07-2011 at 05:40 PM.
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    Two reasons it worked yesterday. One because Tebow completed that touchdown pass early and second because the Oakland defensive ends were selling out the dives to McGahee which was set up by his fantastic runs.

    It will work, but not as the primary base of an offense. You have to have a lot of other stuff clicking.
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    Another reason is because moss was the DE

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyHorse View Post
    Rest of article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...169?source=rss

    From what we saw yesterday it CAN be effective at the NFL level. I'm not sure it's worth building around but I think it's something that should continue to be used even if sparingly to catch defenses of guard.
    Sure you can win a few games with that offense. But, NFL defenses can easily adapt to stop it, which is WHY the option hasn't been used much in the NFL for about 35 years.

    How many shots do you think Tebow can take and still keep getting up? He's taking a pounding every game. Well, he's a tough guy, and he's holding up -- for now.

    But, project that into the future. How many seasons will the guy last if he's taking hits like a RB? The toughest RBs normally don't last more than about 5 years in the NFL.

    And they don't pay them $9-$15 million a year either.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MOtorboat View Post
    Two reasons it worked yesterday. One because Tebow completed that touchdown pass early and second because the Oakland defensive ends were selling out the dives to McGahee which was set up by his fantastic runs.

    It will work, but not as the primary base of an offense. You have to have a lot of other stuff clicking.
    It they would throw from that formation they would kill.

    I hope they add more than a few of those to next weeks game plan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CrazyHorse View Post
    Rest of article http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci...169?source=rss

    From what we saw yesterday it CAN be effective at the NFL level. I'm not sure it's worth building around but I think it's something that should continue to be used even if sparingly to catch defenses of guard.
    The Spread Option isn't viable, not at the NFL level at least. I remember that a lot of people said the Wildcat Option would eventually invade the NFL and be considered a Pro Offense, guess what happened, it flamed out. Problem is that the Spread Option requires not so much talent as deceptiveness to be successful, once a defense, especially the faster more hard hitting defenses at the professional level understand what they're facing then the offense becomes a liability for the team using it. No option offenses have been successful in the modern NFL for that very reason, they're gimmick offenses that once the flaws are discovered can not be adjusted.

    Now that doesn't mean that an offense can not utilize certain aspects of that offensive system. After all, a quality offensive coordinator will take aspects of many different offenses in order to create a more dynamic offense. Wasn't that long ago that the shotgun formation was introduced to the Spread Options, look at the success of those offenses with the formation in play.
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    wasn't the knock on the west coast offense when it first entered the league that it required too high a completion% to be effective?(too young to remember) Just saying if the spread is the next thing down the pipe the talent will adapt, all it takes is one team to prove it can work(my money is on Carolina)

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    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    wasn't the knock on the west coast offense when it first entered the league that it required too high a completion% to be effective?(too young to remember) Just saying if the spread is the next thing down the pipe the talent will adapt, all it takes is one team to prove it can work(my money is on Carolina)
    Carolina's base offense is the Air-Coryell, they've added parts of the Spread Offense into their scheme, but the backbone of that offense is still a Coryell based system.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancane View Post
    The Spread Option isn't viable, not at the NFL level at least. I remember that a lot of people said the Wildcat Option would eventually invade the NFL and be considered a Pro Offense, guess what happened, it flamed out. Problem is that the Spread Option requires not so much talent as deceptiveness to be successful, once a defense, especially the faster more hard hitting defenses at the professional level understand what they're facing then the offense becomes a liability for the team using it. No option offenses have been successful in the modern NFL for that very reason, they're gimmick offenses that once the flaws are discovered can not be adjusted.

    Now that doesn't mean that an offense can not utilize certain aspects of that offensive system. After all, a quality offensive coordinator will take aspects of many different offenses in order to create a more dynamic offense. Wasn't that long ago that the shotgun formation was introduced to the Spread Options, look at the success of those offenses with the formation in play.
    This is true, but it's only 1/2 the picture. I'm still going to write a thread about why the NFL went to a system designed for pocket-passing QBs.

    But, the other half of the equation is that you're paying an NFL franchise QB WAY too much money to let him run around much.

    In the NFL there is ONE rule: Troy Polomalu and Ray Lewis are bigger and faster and they hit harder than you. Stay away from guys like that and your career will last longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    wasn't the knock on the west coast offense when it first entered the league that it required too high a completion% to be effective?(too young to remember) Just saying if the spread is the next thing down the pipe the talent will adapt, all it takes is one team to prove it can work(my money is on Carolina)
    The West Coast system did have some problems when it was first introduced into a run-first league. But, then the NFL changed the rules to favor passing.

    Step 1: Can't touch the WR after 5 yards rule.

    Step 2: Defenses react by trying to hit the QB on every play to prevent him passing for 300 yards a game.

    Step 3: NFL owners got together and realized that QBs were getting hit too much and hurt too much and teams were paying these guys too much money to let a LB earning $500,000 a year blow up your $10 million QB and put him out for a month.

    It's bad for the League, it's bad for the fans, it bad for the owners' pocket books.

    Step 4: The NFL cracked down on hitting the QB in the pocket. Now you can't even give the QB a dirty look without it being a 15 yard penalty and maybe a league fine.

    Step 5: This season several NFL QBs could possibly throw for close to 500 yards a game. In the future, 400 yards a game will be the average standard you want your QB to achieve, and 500 yards will be the "gold standard" for an elite QB.

    For that very reason, the spread offense will NEVER be the rule because it requires your QB to run too much. And if he runs he's going to get hit. And the more he's hit the more he's hurt and soon he'll be so slowed by injuries he'll be out of the league.

    And you're paying him vastly too much money to allow that.
    Last edited by Cugel; 11-07-2011 at 05:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lancane View Post
    The Spread Option isn't viable, not at the NFL level at least. I remember that a lot of people said the Wildcat Option would eventually invade the NFL and be considered a Pro Offense, guess what happened, it flamed out. Problem is that the Spread Option requires not so much talent as deceptiveness to be successful, once a defense, especially the faster more hard hitting defenses at the professional level understand what they're facing then the offense becomes a liability for the team using it. No option offenses have been successful in the modern NFL for that very reason, they're gimmick offenses that once the flaws are discovered can not be adjusted.

    Now that doesn't mean that an offense can not utilize certain aspects of that offensive system. After all, a quality offensive coordinator will take aspects of many different offenses in order to create a more dynamic offense. Wasn't that long ago that the shotgun formation was introduced to the Spread Options, look at the success of those offenses with the formation in play.
    I disagree, I think a modified spread option isolates the defense and allows you to pick on the mismatch as well as giving you an extra player on the field by requiring a qb spy. (This whole thread is a mirror of the one whn Urban Meyer came to the SEC, just replace NFL with SEC)

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    Meh, just like statistics, people get too caught up by labels.

    The bottom line is that any offense can be viable and work as long as it is executed well and you keep the other team guessing. If you can pull those two things off, you will do fine on offense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    Sure you can win a few games with that offense. But, NFL defenses can easily adapt to stop it, which is WHY the option hasn't been used much in the NFL for about 35 years.

    How many shots do you think Tebow can take and still keep getting up? He's taking a pounding every game. Well, he's a tough guy, and he's holding up -- for now.

    But, project that into the future. How many seasons will the guy last if he's taking hits like a RB? The toughest RBs normally don't last more than about 5 years in the NFL.

    And they don't pay them $9-$15 million a year either.
    That's actually my biggest concern. Tebow took a massive beating out there. You can't have that and expect a quarterback to last. Just look at Vick. He's never completed a full season. Then again you could also make the argument that Tebow took just as much of a beating the last two weeks while trying to remain in the pocket.

    I'd rather have my quarterback get hit by safeties and corners over linemen. Of course there isn't any rule to protect a quarterback running as there is when they are in the pocket. As long as he learns to take what's given rather than taking defenders head on and can become a more consistent passer I think he'll be pretty effective.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cugel View Post
    The West Coast system did have some problems when it was first introduced into a run-first league. But, then the NFL changed the rules to favor passing.

    Step 1: Can't touch the WR after 5 yards rule.

    Step 2: Defenses react by trying to hit the QB on every play to prevent him passing for 300 yards a game.

    Step 3: NFL owners got together and realized that QBs were getting hit too much and hurt too much and teams were paying these guys too much money to let a LB earning $500,000 a year blow up your $10 million QB and put him out for a month.

    It's bad for the League, it's bad for the fans, it bad for the owners' pocket books.

    Step 4: The NFL cracked down on hitting the QB in the pocket. Now you can't even give the QB a dirty look without it being a 15 yard penalty and maybe a league fine.

    Step 5: This season several NFL QBs could possibly throw for close to 500 yards a game. In the future, 400 yards a game will be the average standard you want your QB to achieve, and 500 yards will be the "gold standard" for an elite QB.

    For that very reason, the spread offense will NEVER be the rule because it requires your QB to run too much. And if he runs he's going to get hit. And the more he's hit the more he's hurt and soon he'll be so slowed by injuries he'll be out of the league.

    And you're paying him vastly too much money to allow that.
    I actually agree with you, I don't think the spread option will be a BETTER option than the west coast offense until the NFL changes the rules back to put more pressure on the passing game. ( I assume the pendulum will swing back towards Defense eventually)

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    Quote Originally Posted by catfish View Post
    I actually agree with you, I don't think the spread option will be a BETTER option than the west coast offense until the NFL changes the rules back to put more pressure on the passing game. ( I assume the pendulum will swing back towards Defense eventually)
    Don't count on it. I don't remember who said it, I believe it was Lou Saban who once said that "Football is to America what Gladiatorial games were to Romans. It was the fierce hitting defenses of old that popularized it with the American people, but what made it a world wide phenomenon was the introduction of the passing quarterback."

    If you truly believe that the majority of NFL fans want to watch the likes of Tim Tebow or Vince Young over the likes of Aaron Rodgers or Tom Brady, then your sadly mistaken. The NFL favors what makes money and no one makes more for the league then the quarterbacks, from jersey sales to toys, the most popular players in the league has been and will remain the quarterbacks, particularly those who are as we would say elite.
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