Thread: Trade Champ, trade DJ, trade Doom.

Originally Posted by King87

This isn't Madden were a 3-4 LB can play the 4-3 just as well. There is nothing set in stone on trades either.

Deion Branch was worth a first rounder to the Seahawks. Randy Moss was worth a fourth rounder to the Patriots.

To the rest of the league a true all-star CB is coveted. To a lot of Bronco fans they are taken for granted. When Bailey disappears and all of a sudden you get torched by the opposition's number one AND two wideout you will start to realize how much he is worth.

Cornerback is a strange position. People like to measure how good one is by INTs. This is obviously ridiculous, exactly what has Asante Samuel done for Philly? Tory James was a real nice CB for the Bengals, after awhile he got torched but could still muster up nice INT totals. It's a lazy way to think of how good a CB is. This is going to sound pretentious and arrogant, but you have to really know football to appreciate how great Champ Bailey is. Most modern day CBs have two or three "great" years. Here's a fun little list for you, Samuel, DeAngelo Hall, Deltha O'Neal, Nate Clements, your newly added Bly. What do they all have in common? They were all once highly coveted. Some of those players on that list are still good, though they were once great, look at Clements and Samuel. The others.......not so much.

Quick question, what do they all NOT have in common with Bailey? If you guessed that Bailey has stayed great and they haven't, you win the common sense prize.

If you can trade him for picks you are giving up on the future. Have fun grooming guys and wasting Cutler's prime. A season or two doesn't seem like THAT long, but in all reality four games is sometimes eternity in the NFL.

Champ Bailey can be your Rod Smith at the CB position.

The offense is fine, the defense isn't. Trading away your good players is awful. It makes no sense, and the value a player has is always greatest to the team he is playing for.

The consensus here for most who wanna trade Champ has nothing to do w/ his talent. It has everything to do w/ his wasted talent. Even Champ can't cover a guy for 7 seconds. If he was young and cheap, who cares? But he's not. He's older, banged up quite a bit and very expensive. I don't want to see him go, but I understand those who say his talent is being wasted w/o a pass rush.


And as far as the Madden comment goes, if it was in reference to my comment about Elvis...he is a smallish 4-3 DE who can get to the QB. he MAY be a decent fit as a 3-4 OLB at his size and w/ his athleticism.

Originally Posted by elsid13

Med from the Mane actually think it more important to find a DT/NT before anything else. I kinda agree because both Thomas/Robinson are miscast right now as NT, when they should be UT. If we able to stop the run earlier in the series the pass rush would improve because it take way other team options later in the series. (i.e allows the defense to go get the QB vs worrying about the run)

Same goes for our DEs though too...and our LBs. It's not JUST the DTs. Teams don't JUST run up the middle on us. Our LBs are small and so are the DEs. Look at Pittsburgh where the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts. Aaron Smith and Bret Kiesel are not that talented, BUT they are BIG, STRONG and KNOW HOW TO PLAY FOOTBALL. The LBs are skilled, but they are also always HUGE and intimidating. They are all team players.

So as you will hear a million times from me, Tyson jackson please.

Yeah let's trade our 3 best players on Defense....We really need that.

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

The consensus here for most who wanna trade Champ has nothing to do w/ his talent. It has everything to do w/ his wasted talent. Even Champ can't cover a guy for 7 seconds. If he was young and cheap, who cares? But he's not. He's older, banged up quite a bit and very expensive. I don't want to see him go, but I understand those who say his talent is being wasted w/o a pass rush.


And as far as the Madden comment goes, if it was in reference to my comment about Elvis...he is a smallish 4-3 DE who can get to the QB. he MAY be a decent fit as a 3-4 OLB at his size and w/ his athleticism.

So you trade away a HOFer for some picks when you were one win away from the playoffs?

His talent isn't being wasted. With no pass rush he still does his job. Put someone else there and with no pass rush that WR is going to beat you by himself, especially over the span of an entire year.

It was not in reference to your comment about him as a LB.

Originally Posted by King87

So you trade away a HOFer for some picks when you were one win away from the playoffs?

His talent isn't being wasted. With no pass rush he still does his job. Put someone else there and with no pass rush that WR is going to beat you by himself, especially over the span of an entire year.

It was not in reference to your comment about him as a LB.

I don't disagree w/ your philosophy, but my response is this: Have you seen our D play? His individual talent isn't wasted, but his potential effect on the team is void at this point. So what if a DC has to plan around Champ, he's got plenty of other places to go. Again, I want him to stay...I just also see some vailidity in others' views that he may garner some value in a trade for picks OR young players.

I hope they would release Patrick Ramsey. Sign a better veteran QB to back up for Cutler.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Seven

I hope they would release Patrick Ramsey. Sign a better veteran QB to back up for Cutler.

Ramsey is FA

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

I don't disagree w/ your philosophy, but my response is this: Have you seen our D play? His individual talent isn't wasted, but his potential effect on the team is void at this point. So what if a DC has to plan around Champ, he's got plenty of other places to go. Again, I want him to stay...I just also see some vailidity in others' views that he may garner some value in a trade for picks OR young players.

I understand everyone else would love to have Champ but that does not mean you trade him, who's to even know if he wants to leave? Yes the defense is down but he is a captin and gives 110% and a player like that is not easily replaced and on top of that a player of his caliber has to ahve a huge influence on the younger players. I agree with the comment that Champ could be the Rod Smith of the defense.

Originally Posted by Magnificent Seven

I hope they would release Patrick Ramsey. Sign a better veteran QB to back up for Cutler.

Vince Young?

did ya miss the part wher I said I personally want him to stay?

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

Elvis is a 1 trick pony who MIGHT get us a 4th or 5th rounder. DJ might land us a 3rd. You seem to be forgetting how the league's "stars" have been traded for next to nothing lately. Doom and DJ have no real value.

If there was a player in the draft who you knew could rush the passer like Doom, he'd go well before the 4th or 5th round. If Doom were to be in this next draft, he'd likely go in the 2nd or 3rd. That is where the guys with all the "potential" are no longer available. After the guys with "potential" are off the board a player who specializes in pass pressure becomes more appealing. He has holes in his game but his speciaty would also presents a case of a bird in the hand is worth more than one in the bush.

And to those who keep pointing out that its not Champs fault...blah, blah, blah. What youre failing to realize is that no matter how good Champ is, he is dependent on help. We've concentrated our resources from back to front. We should have targeted established elite DEs instead of CBs and concentrate our resources up front...because now we have a 12 million dollar corner and the defense still sucks. Why do we need a 12 million dollar corner to suck?

He was an AMAZING pass rusher in college and how far did he fall? Now he has shown he has clear limitations and had a below average year in 08. Way too many holes in his game to garner any real value.

Originally Posted by SmilinAssasSin27

He was an AMAZING pass rusher in college and how far did he fall? Now he has shown he has clear limitations and had a below average year in 08. Way too many holes in his game to garner any real value.

No. The 10 yard cushions on 3rd and 5s really take away a lot of opportunities to rush the passer. Over two seasons he averaged over 10 sacks a season. Like I said, if you can get a guy like Doom in the 3rd youd take him in a heartbeat.

Doom would get us a 6th rounder at best. We aren't paying him that much, so I see no reason to trade him.

I would rather trade bly than champ. Champ can help with run support if we still need it next year. And if we fix our front 7 he can go back to being a stud cover cb because he won't have to do everything for our team.

I can live with trading DJ because of woodyards play.

But no way should we trade doom we wouldn't get what we deserve for him. If we get him some D-line help and put him back in a more situational role we might see 10 sacks out of him again.