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Thread: Moving to 3-4

  1. #1
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    Default Moving to 3-4

    I know we have debated this to death, but I was thinking how hard is it really to move to the 3/4. I read that we don't have the players, it to hard the right personnel etc but I did a little mental simulation and modeling to see if we could do it one year. I am putting it here because it involves draft and FA

    Tell me if my logic is ****** up, since I think we can do it in four outside moves. (* indicates a move). Outside move means that we don't have the resource in house to make the change.


    Line:

    -Move Thomas, Robinson and Peterson to DE. Denver as already done this season so they all have experience doing it. Robinson can also cycle inside when he needs to

    -Sign Ronalds Field (NT #325) from SF. He young player (27) having a good season and has two guys in front of him ~Franklin and Sopoaga *

    -Sign Canty from Dallas for depth and rotation.*

    -Draft Terrence "Mount" Cody from Alabama. He should be available in area of the draft where Denver sits *

    -Keep Clemons or Shaw through TC to see who is most flexible to be a backup NT/DE

    -Use Moss and Crowder in nickle/dime packages when Denver goes 4 down linemen in passing downs.

    -Trade Dumervil to cover 2 team. I know that sucks but he's young and cheap which make a good trade candidate.

    That move Denver from small defense line that holding up the offense line for the LB to make plays to a big defense (300 plus across the board) that holding up the offense line to let the LB make plays

    LB:

    -Keep both Boss and DJ at outside backers. Both are in the 240 range which while little small but is in range with guys like Porter (250) and Copper SD (235). Plus I think they have the speed to make a difference.

    -Move Larson to inside backer. Plays to his strength of moving down field into the gap and and short zone. Plus he is a good blitzer up the middle. Like Trotter who I compare him to.

    -Draft LB Worrell Williams (CAL) in the Fourth. Can play inside next to his brother and has good speed. *

    - Move Woodyard into nickle LB role with DJ/Boss and bulk him a little to play inside. Since Denver is in nickle/dime 40% of the time that make sure he see the field. (missed it on copy/past from the notepad)

    -Keep Winborn, Green Niko Koutouvides, for depth and ST. Denver should also attempt to find another inside LB that can play.

    LB are slightly on small side (about 245 across the starting 4) but do have more speed then most teams and can make plays.
    Last edited by elsid13; 12-23-2008 at 11:08 AM.

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    Wondered when this thread would pop up...

    No.

    We don't have the d-lineman to play 4-3, I don't know what makes anyone think that in just one offseason, we can come up with the guys to play a 3-4.

    You lay out a scenario that might work, but it takes a lot of things falling right into place to work. It also takes the commitment on defense with a defensive coordinator, and Shanahan trusting that defensive coordinator to take over and do his thing.

    I don't see that happening.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Wondered when this thread would pop up...

    No.

    We don't have the d-lineman to play 4-3, I don't know what makes anyone think that in just one offseason, we can come up with the guys to play a 3-4.

    You lay out a scenario that might work, but it takes a lot of things falling right into place to work. It also takes the commitment on defense with a defensive coordinator, and Shanahan trusting that defensive coordinator to take over and do his thing.

    I don't see that happening.
    MB I used to think that too, and I usually hate the threads but I was little bored today so I wanted to try it out. Our defense line are basically doing the 3/4 role already (Remember Pryce bitching about it) so is it really a stretch to play to our defense strength - LB corp.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
    MB I used to think that too, and I usually hate the threads but I was little bored today so I wanted to try it out. Our defense line are basically doing the 3/4 role already (Remember Pryce bitching about it) so is it really a stretch to play to our defense strength - LB corp.
    Until Shanahan puts any trust in defensive coordinator, I don't see much changing on the defensive side of the ball, even when Slowick is fired this year. That's why we need better talent on the defensive side of the ball, namely at MLB and S.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    Until Shanahan puts any trust in defensive coordinator, I don't see much changing on the defensive side of the ball, even when Slowick is fired this year. That's why we need better talent on the defensive side of the ball, namely at MLB and S.
    I actually think Shanahan puts to much trust in DC and only really get involved when it a total Ray Rhodes **** up. Shanny gave Bates, Coyer and Slowick free reign to design thier defense and stamp thier personnel all over it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by elsid13 View Post
    I actually think Shanahan puts to much trust in DC and only really get involved when it a total Ray Rhodes **** up. Shanny gave Bates, Coyer and Slowick free reign to design thier defense and stamp thier personnel all over it.
    I don't think firing four coordinators in four years is putting trust in anything. We've had a fly-by-night scheme for the last four years, and it shows. It shows in the type of talent we have and the scheme we run.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    I don't think firing four coordinators in four years is putting trust in anything. We've had a fly-by-night scheme for the last four years, and it shows. It shows in the type of talent we have and the scheme we run.
    I actually think shows impatience rather the lack of trust.

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    cody says he's not coming out this year, and fields is a career backup-- and without a legit stud on the nose, the 3-4 is shit. . .


    also, neither DJ nor boss is a competent blitzer, and there's more to rushing off the edge than just size and speed. . . in fact, we don't have a single proven, effective blitzer anywhere in our LB corps, and you need at least two to three in a scheme where the vast majority of the pressure has to come from the 'backers. . . we could potentially grab somebody like clint sintim, but that's only one-- otherwise you have a 3-4 like cleveland's, that can't rush the passer. . . we've already got a 4-3 that can't rush the passer, so that's no tangible improvement. . .

    IMO, NONE of our LBs truly fit in a traditional 3-4, other than maybe larsen at ILB. . . i don't think it was just lack of experience-- let alone coincidence-- that caused it to bomb so utterly when we tried it as a desperation move earlier. . . even if we assume that our DTs can slide outside and play the 5-technique effectively (which is a pure guess), i think trying to play our speedy, undersized LBs in the 3-4 is just pounding square pegs into round holes. . .

    i don't see it at all. . . .
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    cody says he's not coming out this year, and fields is a career backup-- and without a legit stud on the nose, the 3-4 is shit. . .


    also, neither DJ nor boss is a competent blitzer, and there's more to rushing off the edge than just size and speed. . . in fact, we don't have a single proven, effective blitzer anywhere in our LB corps, and you need at least two to three in a scheme where the vast majority of the pressure has to come from the 'backers. . . we could potentially grab somebody like clint sintim, but that's only one-- otherwise you have a 3-4 like cleveland's, that can't rush the passer. . . we've already got a 4-3 that can't rush the passer, so that's no tangible improvement. . .

    IMO, NONE of our LBs truly fit in a traditional 3-4, other than maybe larsen at ILB. . . i don't think it was just lack of experience-- let alone coincidence-- that caused it to bomb so utterly when we tried it as a desperation move earlier. . . even if we assume that our DTs can slide outside and play the 5-technique effectively (which is a pure guess), i think trying to play our speedy, undersized LBs in the 3-4 is just pounding square pegs into round holes. . .

    i don't see it at all. . . .
    Moss MIGHT fit in a 3-4. He's played 4-3 his entire life. Other than that, yes, you're right. The Jets made the mistake of thinking Robertson was a 3-4 guy, when he wasn't.

    None of our front seven are really big enough to play in the 3-4. Shanahan loves speed, and speed he will draft, and the 4-3 we will run.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Day1BroncoFan View Post
    I'm happier than tom brady in a gay bar....

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    If I were a guessing man I would say next year we migrate to the 3-4. Especially if we want to keep Woodyard on the field.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JONtheBRONCO View Post
    If I were a guessing man I would say next year we migrate to the 3-4. Especially if we want to keep Woodyard on the field.
    I really don't see where Woodyard fits at all in a 3-4. He's not a pass-rush specialist on the outside, and he's definitely not big enough to play ILB in the 3-4. No, he's a SS, or a WLB in a 4-3.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    Ive read recently that Woodyard is up to 230. He was a lot less than that coming to the Broncos as one can see from this link:
    http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/teams/de...oYvhGHZAOE2bYF

    If he can put on 5 or 10 lbs, he may be able to fit in. The Saints ran a 3-4 back in the day when they had Swilling and Mills. I dont think Mills was very big either.

    But having said that, I think DJ is as big of a concern as anyone is. He didnt exactly look great as a Mike last year, nor did he get the hang of it very fast. Perhaps theyd play him on the outside but, again, its a different set of responsibilities. I think it may actually make more sense to keep Dumervil than Williams.

    Also, Dwayne Robertson was traded because the 3-4 didnt suit him. Perhaps having him at DE will change that. But Marcus Thomas also was best suited as a one gap penetrator. I think he could do ok as a DE in a 3-4 but its not automatic.

    What I like about this though, is that DL has been the hardest thing for us to find and LBs, not so much. So this works in our favor in that sense. Plus I like the blitz flexibility. We'd need to bring in someone like Grady Jackson and draft Raji though as there arent exactly a lot of NTs in the FA market.

    If we were to do this, I think we'd need to trade either Williams, Moss, or Doom, and possibly moreso Williams. And then we could draft Phillips, Fossett, and Raji and it could work.
    Last edited by lex; 12-25-2008 at 12:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    I really don't see where Woodyard fits at all in a 3-4. He's not a pass-rush specialist on the outside, and he's definitely not big enough to play ILB in the 3-4. No, he's a SS, or a WLB in a 4-3.
    Not yet. Give the kid an offseason or two in an NFL program.

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    I'm all for moving to the 3/4 next year assuming we can bring in the talent to employ it. In looking at the upcoming draft, it does appear there are more 3/4 players avaialble than 4/3 players.

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