Thread: Football X & Os

I just wanted to thank you all for this great thread...

Damned, it's amazing what I've learned in 4 pages.
Though I have a huge sport background, my football technical background is weak (not played too much here)... So it's great to read this kind of threads..

Again, thanks !

there is a town hall discussion about this type of thread going on please add to it..

http://broncosforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33611

Originally Posted by haroldthebarrel

This idea should have been done a long time ago if it hasnt already and just got away.

I do have some questions.

1. If you know your opponent are in a zone(cover 2/3) how would you attack it through passing. Let's say it is a third and long situation for starters.

2. I remember the SB video where the Broncos had Smith on a post route which ended in a td. In what situations are post routes most effective/lethal?

3. Who usually has the responsibility to contain the backside on a stretch run?
(like I think it was Larsen who lost containment on the long td by T.J's counter), but I thought it would be the other side OLB.

4. I have a vague understanding the names of each receiving route. What I lack knowledge of is in what situations each route generally has the highest success rate.

Little late to the thread but i'll help out..



1. Well that is correct. In cover 3, the most popular pattern is the "Cadillac". Which is where the 2 main receivers run a post and a square in, respectfully. The tight end and backs can do a variety of things in the flats.

In third and long, it really depends on the coach. An aggressive coach will try and pick it up but a conservative coach will 'dink and donk' for a few yards or run a simple draw play to the tailback.

Cover two.. You really wanna isolate the safeties. Seams are killer for this type of defense or maybe even a back out of the backfield. A 'seam, corner' would tear apart this defense as the safety has to choose who to pick or the other safety has to help out leaving his side of the field vulnerable.

2. Man coverage and cover 3. In man, it is extremely hard for a corner to run with a receiver that long. And in cover 3, it is hard for a safety to pick up the post if he sees a pattern that is crossing across the field in front of him (see 1). It is EXTREMELY effective in PA with a run oriented offense. A cheating up safety will see run first and will hesitate to check and make sure the back doesn't have the ball. This leaves the middle of the field vulnerable as the safety (probably) won't get back in time to help the corner.

3. End. Ends are suppose to "squeeze" down the line when flow is away from them. This means that the end goes with the tightend/tackle who is trying to 'scoop/zone' block the DT or ILB. If done properly, it eliminates the back side hole that is commonly used in a stretch play.

4. Slant- it is generally used in man coverage or when a corner is playing off.

Fly- used in man or cover 2 to get a one on one match up with (generally) your top deep threat.

Curl- used when the corner is playing off or when you have consistently gone deep. The corner expects it to be a deep route but the receiver breaks it off into a curl.

Flat pattern- used to isolate a back or tightend against a linebacker or when the receiver on that side clears out that side of the field for a route where he initially left. Used anytime except in cover 2 as the corner is playing the flats.

Wheel route- generally used when a receiver to one side clears out (which means that he runs a route away from where he just was) and a streaking back/receiver/tightend can take advantage of that and try and make a big play. You can use this route anytime.

Bubble- used when a corner is playing off or when the offense wants to get the ball in the playmaker's hands and see if he can make something happen.

Screen- used when the offense feels that they can counter the defenses blitz with a screen.


JMO.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

This is why the PA worked so well in that situation. Robinson was cheating up to stop the run (TD Baby!), and got caught. He had the deep zone responsibility there, and let Smith get behind him.

A post can also work well in zones if the QB can time the throw to the receiver when he is "between zones" or between defenders so to speak.

However, if a defender plays a man, bump and run technique, and stays inside of the receiver, then it a post probably isn't going to work so well.

Beating zones with a post has a lot more to do with confusing the DBs in the zone with routes that counter the post.


Yes and in a perfect world we get good pressure on the QB throughout the game. It doesn't happen much.

Originally Posted by haroldthebarrel

Also if you ever wondered how the zone blocking running is done, Brian Billick at nfl.com videos has some really nice explanations. Clinton Portis as well explains in a video the lethality of it, when to cut back, the reason for cut-blocking the back side and more.

The zone blocking scheme feeds off the defenses inability to play assignment football and the inability to stay on the upfield shoulder of the OLmen and having an arm free.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

The best way to attack zone coverage is to recognize it at the LOS before the ball is snapped.True but its also even more effective when you pick up on the defenses tendencies while watching film. IMO the ability to watch film is HUGE Your best bet is to not have a specific route, but rather a route with a read.Yes. Your WR and QB should be able to both read defensive zones and the WR should be able to find an open spot in the zone and the QB should be able to find the WR. A QB should be able to look at a zone defense and know where their WR is going to sit down. This is why it is critical for defenses to show different looks even if it is running the same coverage. This is a big reason why our defense fails IMO because we are not good at disguising our plays or showing different looks.More about pass rush and a difference maker at the safety spot

It is difficult on 3rd and long, obviously because not only do you have to find a soft spot in the zone, but you have to be aware of the first down marker. That is why Cover 2/3 is a popular call on 3rd down.Cover 2 is not a popular call on 3rd and long. It is more effective on 3rd and short. Cover 2 takes away the flat routes. That's what that defense does best. Unless you have a QB who can fit the ball into tight spaces or a WR who can break tackles, it is difficult to convert a 3rd and long unless a defender makes a mistake.

You will often times see teams take the underneath to a RB because your RB is almost always open out of the backfield with a Cover 2/3Not necessarily. and your RB has the best chance of breaking a couple tackles to get to the 1st down marker. You will often see a RB sit in the middle of the field on 3rd and lets say 13.A receiver always does that. Its called a check down. It is pretty common to see the RB pickup 9-12 yards and leave the offense with a 4th and 1 or 2.

If it is late in a game where you know the offense is in a 4-down situation, you may see less Cover 2/3 because you dont want to leave them with an easy 4th down conversion.No. Its easier to get beat in man than it is in zone. OTOH, you may see a defense not even consider the first down marker if a TD is needed to win and there is very little time on the clock in which case you will see a very deep prevent defense.

Overall.. Nice post.