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Thread: Dreadnoughts thread on military history

  1. #211
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    Czechs are the most underrated people

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  5. #213
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    I mentioned these guys in the Guns of August thread, but didn't want to get further into their amazing History without derailing things.

    The Czech Legion was made up of @ 50,000 mostly Czech ex-pats and former POWs from the Austro-Hungarian Army taken in 1914. They hated the Austro-Hungarians and Germans with a fiery passion, and formed an all volunteer force to fight on the Allied side in WW1, mostly on the Russian Front. Their situation became very precarious with the Russian Revolution, however. Russia wanted out of the War, but the Czech Legion had plenty of fight left in them and yearned for the trench warfare of the Western Front where they could continue to fight Germans. Part of the treaty of Brest Litovsk granted them the right to use the Trans-Siberian Railroad to travel to Vladivostock on the Pacific coast, where they could travel to American, cross the continent, then sail from NYC to France and take up arms again. These were dedicated hard core Mofos. Anyways, the Bolsheviks doublecrossed the Czech Legion (like Communists usually do), and tried to disarm them by surprise. This was unsuccessful, and the Legion fought a number of battles with the Communists. They ended up having to seize most of the Trans Siberian Railway and fight their way from Europe all the way across thousands of miles of Siberia to Vladivostock. There they seized Eastern Siberia and linked up with American troops landed to keep the Commies from taking the port and helping the Czechs get to France. Somebody needs to do a screeplay.

    The future President of Czechoslavakia was one of their senior Officers.
    What a great story! Nobody's ever done that? Why oh why must we be subjected the umpteenth iteration of Spider-Man, when this story hasn't been on screen yet?

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    What a great story! Nobody's ever done that? Why oh why must we be subjected the umpteenth iteration of Spider-Man, when this story hasn't been on screen yet?
    Even our War movies mostly suck. " small undisciplined band of misfits, behind enemies lines, don't follow the rules, fighting their own Brass while sticking it to the Nazis, blah de blah blah blah."

    Military stories by people who know somewhere between jack and squat about military history and what wins Wars, and who fundamentally dislike the Military to begin with.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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    hey Dread, what is your opinion on the bombing of Dresden?

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    Quote Originally Posted by sneakers View Post
    hey Dread, what is your opinion on the bombing of Dresden?
    weird - i just referenced Dresden in your other thread about facts (i think)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sneakers View Post
    hey Dread, what is your opinion on the bombing of Dresden?
    I think strategic bombing was mostly a waste of time and resources, frankly.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    I think strategic bombing was mostly a waste of time and resources, frankly.
    please elaborate.

    The war was almost over - we flattened a city, killed about 30000 people. Then we paid to rebuild it lol

    What was the strategic purpose of that ?

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    Just did a quick internet search and found this quote from the RAF at the time

    "The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front... and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do."

    I think the later part of that statement may be the most truthful. Pesky Russians!

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveaitken18 View Post
    Just did a quick internet search and found this quote from the RAF at the time

    "The intentions of the attack are to hit the enemy where he will feel it most, behind an already partially collapsed front... and incidentally to show the Russians when they arrive what Bomber Command can do."

    I think the later part of that statement may be the most truthful. Pesky Russians!
    I suspect bombing Dresden had more to do with payback for the Blitz, V-1's, V-2's and all that, and was kind of a shabby thing. I understand kind of, but it was pretty pointlessly murderous. War is bad enough without carpet bombing civilian population centers. The effort the RAF and USAAC put into bombing cities indiscriminately could have been much better redirected into ground support IMO. The "bomber generals" (Spaatz, Tedder, et al.) were invested in the idea that bombing alone could win the War, and I think they were wrong.

    I'm not shedding tears for the Nazis or Japanese, I mostly just think it was a waste of time and killed a lot of (noncombatant) people pointlessly.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post
    I suspect bombing Dresden had more to do with payback for the Blitz, V-1's, V-2's and all that, and was kind of a shabby thing. I understand kind of, but it was pretty pointlessly murderous. War is bad enough without carpet bombing civilian population centers. The effort the RAF and USAAC put into bombing cities indiscriminately could have been much better redirected into ground support IMO. The "bomber generals" (Spaatz, Tedder, et al.) were invested in the idea that bombing alone could win the War, and I think they were wrong.

    I'm not shedding tears for the Nazis or Japanese, I mostly just think it was a waste of time and killed a lot of (noncombatant) people pointlessly.
    In that case - i misunderstood your first post. I completely agree with you.

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    I do think strategically bombing the whole Rhein region was fruitful though - and maybe also hamburg and bremen - and bombing berlin was a must, if no other reason than to let the Germans know we could.

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    Quote Originally Posted by daveaitken18 View Post
    I do think strategically bombing the whole Rhein region was fruitful though - and maybe also hamburg and bremen - and bombing berlin was a must, if no other reason than to let the Germans know we could.
    That is certainly a stronger argument. German war production continued to increase every year of the War, though. Its unanswerable if it would have increased at an even greater rate without strategic bombing
    “What fresh hell is this?”

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post

    That is certainly a stronger argument. German war production continued to increase every year of the War, though. Its unanswerable if it would have increased at an even greater rate without strategic bombing
    Those pesky Germans

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    I had to bump this post, because I was reading more about the appalling Luigi Cadorna last night. He was even worse than I knew, In addition to the failings noted below, he was also dead set against permitting his men any sort of leave or recreation. No books, clubs, cards, sports, entertainment, visiting civilian areas, no civilian goods. He thought it would make his men soft and unfocused. He also addressed the fact that the Italian Army wasn't able to provide much suppressive artillery fire for his offensives, due to very limited industrial production. This he referred to as "making excuses"

    Quote Originally Posted by Dreadnought View Post

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    Worst General Ever. Generale Luigi Cadorna, Italian CinC for most of WW1

    Cadorna is great. Stubborn. Stupid. Vicious.

    He is known for having lost all twelve (!) Battles of the Isonzo River. All are pretty much identical; Italian Army is ordered to launch a frontal attack across a river over open stony ground on entrenched Austrians, who shoot the Italian attackers to pieces. Repeat as needed. No deception plan required. No Manouever, just assault! The fighting spirit of properly motivated troops will win out, you see.

    The repeated failures of his Army enraged Cadorna, who even revived the Ancient Roman custom of Decimation (one in ten, literally). Some of his defeated units had one man in ten selected by lottery for execution by firing squad. This was to improve the fighting spirit of his men - kind of like hauling the assistant coaches into Bowlen's Office for a public humiliation after the Raiders game last year. The failures, you see, were not Cadorna's fault. His men were just soft and needed toughening up. Threats always work to acheive this.

    After the Army completely collapsed at Caporetto in 1917 the Italian government finally fired Cadorna, and morale immediately improved. The Italian troops get kind of a bad rap, but would you fight for this a$$hole? To me he epitomizes phony tough guy crap leadership, where posturing replaces Generalship. He looks pretty dapper, with all those medals and stuff though.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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