Thread: Holliday Traded

Originally Posted by Medford Bronco

I think the Rox got 40 cents on the dollar. Street is okay and Gonzales is a propect. Holliday is a beast and one of the best 5 hitters in baseball.

That may be true, but it's the way the trade market has become. Atlanta got less talent for Teixeira, and he's arguably a better all around player. Even if Holliday were a top 5 hitter (which he probably isn't because of Coors Field and the protection he had in the lineup) there is no way the Rockies could pay him top 5 money. Nor would they, it is not a good practice to have 75% of a teams' salary committed to a small percentage of the players.

And like it or not, the Rockies are a small-market team. Not because of the market they play in, or their fanbase. Because that is the way their ownership group has behaved for years. They've been more about turning a profit than putting a winning product on the field since they took over, despite which they have had some decent teams. They were burned by past free-agents and decided to go another route, thus avoiding large contracts for the most part. This is just another example they intend to stick to that model. It can be, and has been done successfully by countless teams in the league and not always to the delight of the fans.

Many are right; it's just a never ending cycle with the Rocks.

Foster player from nowhere, grow him in a perfect farm league atmosphere, move him to CO Springs to see if a jump can be made, gradually test and give role, have a breakout season, get traded to major franchise for crap, and more draft picks. Why don't we compete?

The only worthwhile players who didn't follow this trend were Helton (because he resisted the trades) and Larry Walker, who ultimately was traded anyway, just after making an impact. Just when I thought the Rockies were about to be relevant in the MLB.

When will they try to win?

You guys could have done a lot worse. See what the M's gave up for Erik Bedard and how that debacle turned out.

It wasnt horrible for Colorado, but it was great for Oakland. They get a nice piece to the middle of the lineup and if they aren't competetive, they can dea him at the deadline and get a shitload in return. Or...they can keep him for the playoff run and get compensation for him if he leaves via FA.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

It wasnt horrible for Colorado, but it was great for Oakland. They get a nice piece to the middle of the lineup and if they aren't competetive, they can dea him at the deadline and get a shitload in return. Or...they can keep him for the playoff run and get compensation for him if he leaves via FA.

Correction. It is horrible for Colorado.

Terrible deal that only gets worse the more I hear about it.

Originally Posted by Buff

Correction. It is horrible for Colorado.

Terrible deal that only gets worse the more I hear about it.

How? They cut payroll and get some solid players in return for a guy that may not have come back anyway. If they want to pay his price, they can try to bring him back next winter. They werent' going to be extremely competetive this year anyway, so why not get a few kids to build the future.

Does Ian Stewart have OF ability?

If Helton comes back strong then I could see Ian in the OF if he can play it. Unless of course they would deal Atkins.

Baker can play OF but hitting wise i think Ian has greater potential.

Theyre is always Spilborghs as well but i personally prefer him in a bacup role.

Holiday really sucks to lose, he was a great player for Colorado, I will never forget the slide...

We do still have the hitting talent to compete though but depends on if they can fit in defensively.

I just heard on one of the local sports casts, that the Rockies are now working on a trade with Cincinnati, which will send Adkins, Tavares, and Yorbi there. Did not say what the Rockies would get in return, but I am betting on the Cincinnati Reds mascot, one of their bat boys, and their official scorer.

Must be the monforts did not want to be outdone by thew Camby deal this year...

Argh, I hate cost cutting deals.

We have trmendous depth normally on the Rocks with the young guys but that is quickly beggining to fade...

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

How? They cut payroll and get some solid players in return for a guy that may not have come back anyway. If they want to pay his price, they can try to bring him back next winter. They werent' going to be extremely competetive this year anyway, so why not get a few kids to build the future.

I'll hold my final judgement until a year or two from now once we see if Huston Street stays in a uniform... But I can tell you based on their career stats, none of them measure up to half the player Holliday is. Holliday is a machine-- clutch hitter, hits with power, can drive the ball to the opposite field...

And of course we're not gonna be extremely competitive this year-- when you let your best player get away for nothing, you let your best bullpen pitcher leave via free agency, and you trade trade Atkins for more youth...

It's a crap move, because they're not building towards anything. If they were looking to save money so they could stockpile talent, that would be one thing-- But it's a never ending cycle where the Rockies stockpile talent, until they reach their potential, then we let them go play for someone else so we can get younger...

The Rockies are a worse team now than they were last week.

I guess since I'm not a homer, I can see it differently. Holliday is a great player, but the Rox can afford to lose a hitter. A closer like Street is a commodity and Smith and Gonzalez have alot of potential.

Ian Stewart makes Atkins expendible and if they can get young talent in return...why not? Dexter Fowler is also on his way.

So, there is plenty of youth available and maybe more to come to improve this team. I dont think the loss of Holliday will hurt the Rox too much other than fans losing their favorite

Being a Dodger fan, I'm glad he's gone. But being a baseball fan, I'm sad for the fans that they "gave" him away like that. It's this kind of shit that turns people away from the game.

To make this trade with the A's is crazy. If it's me, I never ever make a trade with the A's. Rarely does the other team come out ahead.

Now for you Rockie's fans, sure Holliday is a great hitter. But he's really not as good as everyone thinks. Let me take that back, he is as good as everyone thinks in Colorado. But he's an average hitter outside of Coors.

During his career, Holliday hit .357 at home and .280 on the road. He has 84 career HRs at Coors and 44 on the road. His slugging percentage is .645 at home and .455 on the road.

Do those numbers surprise anyone? Not me. I will always, ALWAYS, be skeptical of Rockies players and their stats. Call me an idiot, call me whatever. But you have Vinny Castilla and Larry Walker to blame for that one. Even Garrett Atkins (who's hit 77 points higher at Coors over his career) and Helton (68 points higher at Coors) to an extent.

Anyway, expect his numbers to drop considerably this year. Look for about a .285 average with 20 HRs and about 85 RBI's. About JJ Hardy, Torri Hunter, Mark Derosa, and Geovany Soto numbers from this past season.

Originally Posted by In-com-plete

Being a Dodger fan, I'm glad he's gone. But being a baseball fan, I'm sad for the fans that they "gave" him away like that. It's this kind of shit that turns people away from the game.

To make this trade with the A's is crazy. If it's me, I never ever make a trade with the A's. Rarely does the other team come out ahead.

Now for you Rockie's fans, sure Holliday is a great hitter. But he's really not as good as everyone thinks. Let me take that back, he is as good as everyone thinks in Colorado. But he's an average hitter outside of Coors.

During his career, Holliday hit .357 at home and .280 on the road. He has 84 career HRs at Coors and 44 on the road. His slugging percentage is .645 at home and .455 on the road.

Do those numbers surprise anyone? Not me. I will always, ALWAYS, be skeptical of Rockies players and their stats. Call me an idiot, call me whatever. But you have Vinny Castilla and Larry Walker to blame for that one. Even Garrett Atkins (who's hit 77 points higher at Coors over his career) and Helton (68 points higher at Coors) to an extent.

Anyway, expect his numbers to drop considerably this year. Look for about a .285 average with 20 HRs and about 85 RBI's. About JJ Hardy, Torri Hunter, Mark Derosa, and Geovany Soto numbers from this past season.

Adding a stud closer and a solid young outfielder and pitcher is hardly getting screwed, but I'm glad you mentioned the career splits for Holliday.

Take his mediocre road numbers and then put them in the roomy confines of Oakland and suddenly putting up 20 HR is not quite so easy.

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

Adding a stud closer and a solid young outfielder and pitcher is hardly getting screwed, but I'm glad you mentioned the career splits for Holliday.

Take his mediocre road numbers and then put them in the roomy confines of Oakland and suddenly putting up 20 HR is not quite so easy.

Oh, I don't think they got screwed. The "gave him away" was 90% sarcasm. The only reason it wasn't 100% sarcasm was because I really think they might have been able to get a little more.

But I actually think it's pretty even.

Originally Posted by In-com-plete

Oh, I don't think they got screwed. The "gave him away" was 90% sarcasm. The only reason it wasn't 100% sarcasm was because I really think they might have been able to get a little more.

But I actually think it's pretty even.

I agree. It's the name that Rox fans are upset about. No dount Matt is a good guy and a likeable player, but sometimes you have to give something up for the better of the franchise. Dealing Holliday opens ALOT of doors for them. Dealing Atkins will open some more.