Thread: Moss to be inactive again today?

Originally Posted by LRtagger

put him at MLB

that might take at least a whole year to adjust to that. its worth a try but if he doesnt fit into a 3-4 defense and cant make the line up when we play 4-3 then he is on his way out. we might seriously want to trade him and crowder while we can still get a decent pick for them and unload both salaries.

i dont think this is the year but if we go after some key free agents on defense then we might be heading deep into the playoffs. it might take getting rid of our 2007 #1 and #3 draftees.

I bet he is out of the league in two years.

Originally Posted by broncofaninfla

I bet he is out of the league in two years.

lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

Yep, as are most teams.

Originally Posted by Cicero

Yep, as are most teams.

Few if any like mikeys during the DAFTING years..

day one choices for mikey

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan


Pray tell how many of them lasted 3 years on our team and of them how many were real starters By that I mean someone that would have made some other or the better teams as a starter..

DJ, Al, Kennedy, Poortis, greasy

all the rest were for the most part kept because of their draft status and most were gone from the game after their third preseason because we had to draft or sign a FA another player to take their sorry spot..

Yes I will concede that other teams have failures on day one but I doubt any of the elite teams which everyone seems to feel DEN is have this kind of record on day one picks..

Of those players how many were not re-signed..

I'll stop short of criticizing Shannahan, I'd take him over any coach in the NFL. Every team has busts and every team finds sleepers. We had a great draft last year, no reason we can't do it two years in a row.

The list of draft picks again!

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

lots of mikeys Daft choices are..

You are full of horse crap!!!!!!!!!!!!!! people need to realize a good draft is go do some Research before you talk out your ass !

Reggie Hayward was a good one.

Gold was pretty good before going to Tampa.
Delta Oniel when he concetrates is pretty good as well

So not all are stiffs

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

Few if any like mikeys during the DAFTING years..

day one choices for mikey

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.) In the leaug great player
2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State still playing
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia detriot
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii still playing
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.) Still playing
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Iowa State Good player should of keept

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California good player
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan Good player
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas Good player for us and detroit
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee Great player
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Good player for us better player for the colts
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke okay player for us better play for the redskins
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois stop gap player for us Played 3 years for the bills
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida still trying to make a squad yep he sucks but his dad is really good friends with coach ....

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State Played 4 years with us he sucked then he played 4or 5 years with the Texans yep he sucked
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan what ? everyone knows that after his sholder was worked on he was not the same player so who really knows ?


Pray tell how many of them lasted 3 years on our team and of them how many were real starters By that I mean someone that would have made some other or the better teams as a starter..

DJ, Al, Kennedy, Poortis, greasy

all the rest were for the most part kept because of their draft status and most were gone from the game after their third preseason because we had to draft or sign a FA another player to take their sorry spot..

Yes I will concede that other teams have failures on day one but I doubt any of the elite teams which everyone seems to feel DEN is have this kind of record on day one picks..

Of those players how many were not re-signed..

you usaly get one starter per draft people need to get a grip . you guys when knocking Shanahan always leave out some of Coachs gold mine players that he always seems to come up with in the RookieFA and RFA's just after the main season is over players that never played that year Bertran Berry and there are more. we as a team draft really good at TE's O line and really we are pretty darn good at drafting QB's

As a GM Coach is up and Down I think as of right now he is in full up swing .

Originally Posted by 56crash

you usaly get one starter per draft

I'm not trying to get in on this debate, but this statement is absolutely not true.

You draft players that you think will play. If that wasn't the case then people would use their #1 to draft their lone starter and then pull the rest of their picks from a hat.

The teams that only aquire one starter per draft are the teams that don't know how to draft properly. There is no excuse for only obtaining one starter from 7+ picks.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

I'm not trying to get in on this debate, but this statement is absolutely not true.

You draft players that you think will play. If that wasn't the case then people would use their #1 to draft their lone starter and then pull the rest of their picks from a hat.

The teams that only aquire one starter per draft are the teams that don't know how to draft properly. There is no excuse for only obtaining one starter from 7+ picks.

Your correct here BUT:

There are excuses if your in love with mikey the coach..

But we both know that that has been the bane of this club since Elway left..

mikey drafted TD in the sixth and since then has relied on sleepers and LUCK to get him by..

and getting by is what we did from 2000 to 2005 or perhaps 06 when we picked up players and several starters..

Got back and look at all the losers on that list..

day one picks or now that top 100 players should all be starters in the NFL somewhere or at least 80% should be.. And now that does not take into account those players that are taken and play and then are injured.. Those are things that can not be for seen.. but for the most part any of the top 100 players each year should see there way into a starting roll somewhere in the NFL. We are talking 3 starters per team or at least contributers.. Maybe they do not start the first year because SOME teams actually have a plan to replace players that are getting to the end of their playing days OR they are going to command such a huge bonus to resign them really good teams have contingency plans..

Not every team is like DEN that has 5-8 holes to fill the next year and are taking 3 DL or 3 CB types in one year.

NOW mikey is superb offensive coach.. no doubt about it.. give him the toys and he can do wonderful things..

But a personnel guy he is not or someone was not between 1998 and 2005.. go look at the losers he approved to be dafted during that time frame.

Did some of them ply sure they did.. did some of them start absolutely but the real test is have they been replaced or moved on to other teams are they still playing.. even on DET dreadful team only Kennedy is still playing for them out of the 3-5 players that have went there from here.. same thing applies to those going to HOU.. How many are really playing or are they disaster backups..

Yes Gold was pretty good but we had a better DL and AL Wilson next to him.. Maybe it was that and not really gold.. Since TPA was reluctant to keep him there one wonders if they were the smart ones..

Look I know that many of you're willing to overlook mikeys deficiencies in personnel because he puts a good offense on the field..

But think in this manner..

1998 instead of marcus nash we could have had the following players..
35 Tony Parrish FS Washington Chicago Bears
38 Flozell Adams G Michigan State Dallas Cowboys
44 Patrick Surtain DB Southern Mississippi Miami Dolphins
46 Samari Rolle CB Florida State Tennessee Oilers

instead of eric brown
65 Leonard Little LB Tennessee St. Louis Rams
72 Jeremiah Trotter LB Stephen F. Austin St. Philadelphia Eagles
76 Ahman Green RB Nebraska Seattle Seahawks

instead of brain greasy
92 Hines Ward WR Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
95 Michael Pittman RB Fresno State Arizona Cardinals

1999 instead of reagor, friedman or watson
73 Joey Porter LB Colorado State Pittsburgh Steelers
78 Marty Booker WR Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis Green Bay Packers

instead of mcgriff
95 Amos Zereoue RB West Virginia Pittsburgh Steelers
105 Brandon Stokley WR Louisiana-Lafayette Baltimore Ravens

2000 instead of delta o
16 Julian Peterson OLB Michigan State San Francisco 49ers
17 Sebastian Janikowski K Florida State Oakland Raiders
18 Chad Pennington QB Marshall New York Jets
19 Shaun Alexander RB Alabama Seattle Seahawks
20 Stockar McDougle T Oklahoma Detroit Lions
22 Chris McIntosh T Wisconsin Seattle Seahawks
23 Rashard Anderson FS Jackson State Carolina Panthers
24 Ahmed Plummer CB Ohio State San Francisco 49ers
25 Chris Hovan DT Boston College Minnesota Vikings
26 Erik Flowers DE Arizona State Buffalo Bills
27 Anthony Becht TE West Virginia New York Jets
28 Rob Morris LB Brigham Young Indianapolis Colts
29 R.Jay Soward WR USC Jacksonville Jaguars
30 Keith Bulluck LB Syracuse Tennessee Titans

instead of gold
42 Cornelius Griffin DT Alabama New York Giants
47 Jerry Porter WR West Virginia Oakland Raiders

in 2001 middlebroken
25 Freddie Mitchell WR UCLA Philadelphia Eagles
27 Michael Bennett RB Wisconsin Minnesota Vikings
28 Derrick Gibson DB Florida State Oakland Raiders
29 Ryan Pickett DT Ohio State St. Louis Rams
30 Reggie Wayne WR Miami (Fla.) Indianapolis Colts
31 Todd Heap TE Arizona State Baltimore Ravens
32 Drew Brees QB Purdue San Diego Chargers
33 Quincy Morgan WR Kansas State Cleveland Browns
34 Kyle Vanden Bosch DE Nebraska Arizona Cardinals
35 Alge Crumpler TE North Carolina Atlanta Falcons
36 Chad Johnson WR Oregon State Cincinnati Bengals
38 Anthony Thomas RB Michigan Chicago Bears
39 Kendrell Bell ILB Georgia Pittsburgh Steelers
40 Ken Lucas CB Mississippi Seattle Seahawks
44 Kris Jenkins DT Maryland Carolina Panthers
45 Fred Smoot CB Mississippi State Washington Redskins
46 Aaron Schobel DE Texas Christian Buffalo Bills

instead of toivies
52 Chris Chambers WR Wisconsin Miami Dolphins
53 Quincy Carter QB Georgia Dallas Cowboys
60 Andre Dyson CB Utah Tennessee Titans
61 Shaun Rogers NT Texas Detroit Lions
62 Gary Baxter DB Baylor Baltimore Ravens

2002
instead of ashely
20 Javon Walker WR Florida State Green Bay Packers
21 Daniel Graham TE Colorado New England Patriots
22 Bryan Thomas DE Alabama-Birmingham New York Jets
23 Napoleon Harris MLB Northwestern Oakland Raiders
24 Ed Reed SS Miami (Fla.) Baltimore Ravens
25 Charles Grant DE Georgia New Orleans Saints
26 Lito Sheppard CB Florida Philadelphia Eagles
37 Andre Gurode G Colorado Dallas Cowboys
44 LeCharles Bentley G Ohio State New Orleans Saints

2003
instead of foster.
21 Jeff Faine C Notre Dame Cleveland Browns
22 Rex Grossman QB Florida Chicago Bears
23 Willis McGahee RB Miami (Fla.) Buffalo Bills
24 Dallas Clark TE Iowa Indianapolis Colts
25 William Joseph DT Miami (Fla.) New York Giants
26 Kwame Harris T Stanford San Francisco 49ers
27 Larry Johnson RB Penn State Kansas City Chiefs
28 Andre Woolfolk CB Oklahoma Tennessee Titans
29 Nick Barnett MLB Oregon State Green Bay Packers
30 Sammy Davis CB Texas A&M San Diego Chargers
31 Nnamdi Asomugha CB California Oakland Raiders

instead of pierce.
54 Anquan Boldin WR Florida State Arizona Cardinals
55 Bryan Scott SS Penn State Atlanta Falcons
56 Osi Umenyiora DE Troy State New York Giants
68 Lance Briggs OLB Arizona Chicago Bears

2004
instead of DJ who I'm pretty happy with..
20 Kenechi Udeze DE USC Minnesota Vikings
21 Vince Wilfork NT Miami (Fla.) New England Patriots
22 J.P. Losman QB Tulane Buffalo Bills
23 Marcus Tubbs DT Texas Seattle Seahawks
24 Steven Jackson RB Oregon State St. Louis Rams

instead of tater
43 Julius Jones RB Notre Dame Dallas Cowboys
44 Bob Sanders DB Iowa Indianapolis Colts
45 Jake Grove G Virginia Tech Oakland Raiders
46 Justin Smiley G Alabama San Francisco 49ers
47 Tank Johnson DT Washington Chicago Bears
48 Dontarrious Thomas OLB Auburn Minnesota Vikings
49 Keiwan Ratliff CB Florida Cincinnati Bengals
50 Devery Henderson WR Louisiana State New Orleans Saints
51 Dwan Edwards DT Oregon State Baltimore Ravens
52 Jacob Rogers T USC Dallas Cowboys
53 Michael Boulware DB Florida State

instead of ONE handed Watts.
55 Greg Jones RB Florida State Jacksonville Jaguars
56 Madieu Williams FS Maryland Cincinnati Bengals
57 Antwan Odom DE Alabama Tennessee Titans
58 Shawntae Spencer CB Pittsburgh San Francisco 49ers
59 Sean Jones SAF Georgia Cleveland Browns
65 Nate Kaeding K Iowa San Diego Chargers
75 Max Starks T Florida Pittsburgh Steelers


NOW not everyone on those later list would I have taken but there is some really good talent on those lists that could have been broncos.. and still be playing for us instead of being cut or traded away.

Yes ans I'd rather had Wilfork or Jackson in a heartbeat instead of DJ who has been dicked around in his time in DEN.. A great DT can make a lot of so so LB's and DB's look good.. As we NOW see..

We passed on alot of talent because we were focused in on getting certain positions filled.. or mikey was in love with who we drafted.. Never forget hearing him say that Nash was Mannings go to guy..
Ahahahaha

Ah yes...the "we coulda had..." argument...

Originally Posted by 56crash

you usaly get one starter per draft people need to get a grip . you guys when knocking Shanahan always leave out some of Coachs gold mine players that he always seems to come up with in the RookieFA and RFA's just after the main season is over players that never played that year Bertran Berry and there are more. we as a team draft really good at TE's O line and really we are pretty darn good at drafting QB's

As a GM Coach is up and Down I think as of right now he is in full up swing .

most of those years we did not get a legit starter from the draft either in the first year or subsequent years..

Just because they started for us (foster a prime example ) does not mean they would be or are starters on any other teams..

Did oneal play well here? absolutely but for every great play he seemed to give up points or a key catch very shortly thereafter.. Inconsistent and the reason he no longer starts in CIN.

You do not draft for back ups on day one. if you are then you have one hell of a team..

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Ah yes...the "we coulda had..." argument...

Yes we could have but someone mikey or otherwise decided that these players were not as good as Watts, nash, foster, pierce, ashley middlebroken, oneal, toviessi, cole, reagor friedman, watson, mcgriff, dorsett davis. most of which did not play for beans here and if they did when they moved on they stunk up the place..

There are at least 10 players above that should never been day one picks over a 6 year period.. 10 wasted picked that could have been some one else and had they been perhaps 5 of them would still be on the squad had we have had a professional GM on staff..

Would it be nice to have 5 less holes to fill that past 3 years?.. Holes that we drafted 4-7 rounders to fill and hope they cut the mustard.. Speaking of which where is Chad these days?

Just admit that while mikey is a superb coach his personnel skills from 1998 through 2006 sucked.. One of the first things one must admit before they can grow, heal or move on is failure..

time to admit mikey is not the final solution..