Thread: Bettis? Say what?

Originally Posted by LDB

Gayle Sayers says you don't know what you are talking about.

TD was head and shoulders about Bettis. Ask any knowledgable fan (that eliminates Chiefs/Raider fans) who they would take in their prime and I bet 90% would take Davis. No, comparing Bettis to Davis is an insult to Davis. He was that good.

People tout the abilities of Gale Sayers because of what he could have done, not what he actually did. What he DID do was three thousand yard seasons, what he COULD have done. Once again when your prime only lasts three years you do not have longevity. If someone is going to say that a RB is better then then a RB that has almost TWICE as many yards as they do they better have been a force in the league for more then three or four years. And that's what the career of Terrell Davis was, three or four good years. So Priest Holmes is better then Jerome Bettis right? Seriously, it does not matter how good you where for a short period of time in your career, it does not matter what you COULD have done, it matters what you DID.

Originally Posted by King87

People tout the abilities of Gale Sayers because of what he could have done, not what he actually did. What he DID do was three thousand yard seasons, what he COULD have done. Once again when your prime only lasts three years you do not have longevity. If someone is going to say that a RB is better then then a RB that has almost TWICE as many yards as they do they better have been a force in the league for more then three or four years. And that's what the career of Terrell Davis was, three or four good years. So Priest Holmes is better then Jerome Bettis right? Seriously, it does not matter how good you where for a short period of time in your career, it does not matter what you COULD have done, it matters what you DID.

How good a RB is, as with any position, is how well they perform on the field.
I watched virtually all of them on the field. Bettis was nowhere near Sayers,
Brown, Sanders, Davis, Payton, Dorsett, or Campbell, among others, as a
RB. He was comparable to Csconka, Riggins, Taylor, et al. That is still
mighty good, but he has to be categorized where he belongs . . . a very
fine back in the annals of football history, but not among the handful of
elite.

IMHO.

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Originally Posted by topscribe

How good a RB is, as with any position, is how well they perform on the field.
I watched virtually all of them on the field. Bettis was nowhere near Sayers,
Brown, Sanders, Davis, Payton, Dorsett, or Campbell, among others, as a
RB. He was comparable to Csconka, Riggins, Taylor, et al. That is still
mighty good, but he has to be categorized where he belongs . . . a very
fine back in the annals of football history, but not among the handful of
elite.

IMHO.

-----

I think that you and I value things differently. To me longevity is one of the biggest things ever. I would rather have a guy who puts up good numbers for a long time then I go who puts up great numbers for a short time. That brings stability to the organization, I have that player to always fall back on. What Terrell Davis was sick, he had one of the best years ever followed by dominant years, but at the same point in time after that he just kind of was gone. My problem with Gale Sayers is that he was a great talent, but he did not put up great numbers. It is my assertion that what you could have done is irrelevant, because then would Bo Jackson not be one of the all time greats? He had just as much talent and god given ability as any back who ever played stepped on the football field. As far as Sanders goes, I know he was great, you don't put up THOSE numbers if you are great, but I want a back who can bang it in the middle. Lord knows that with a better line he would have the all time record even with his shorter career. If I had to start a team at RB I would want first and foremost Jim Brown. It is my belief that he is the best of all time. After that I would want Walter Payton and then Jerome Bettis. A lot of guys have flashier numbers then he does, but very few players in the history of the NFL dominated like he did. The Bus didn't run outside, he was going in almost the exact same place every time, and if you could stop him you would beat the Steelers. The problem was that very few teams could stop Bettis. Bettis is a top five back in my opinion, but to be fair it is just an opinion. I can't prove you wrong, and you cannot prove me wrong. With so many factors and different eras and rules it is just preference over which back you like. Barry Sanders has a case for it for sure, but at the same point in time so does Jim Brown. I guess it is discussions like these that let you go back and look at all the all time greats and just remember how great they where.

Originally Posted by King87

I think that you and I value things differently. To me longevity is one of the biggest things ever. I would rather have a guy who puts up good numbers for a long time then I go who puts up great numbers for a short time. That brings stability to the organization, I have that player to always fall back on. What Terrell Davis was sick, he had one of the best years ever followed by dominant years, but at the same point in time after that he just kind of was gone. My problem with Gale Sayers is that he was a great talent, but he did not put up great numbers. It is my assertion that what you could have done is irrelevant, because then would Bo Jackson not be one of the all time greats? He had just as much talent and god given ability as any back who ever played stepped on the football field. As far as Sanders goes, I know he was great, you don't put up THOSE numbers if you are great, but I want a back who can bang it in the middle. Lord knows that with a better line he would have the all time record even with his shorter career. If I had to start a team at RB I would want first and foremost Jim Brown. It is my belief that he is the best of all time. After that I would want Walter Payton and then Jerome Bettis. A lot of guys have flashier numbers then he does, but very few players in the history of the NFL dominated like he did. The Bus didn't run outside, he was going in almost the exact same place every time, and if you could stop him you would beat the Steelers. The problem was that very few teams could stop Bettis. Bettis is a top five back in my opinion, but to be fair it is just an opinion. I can't prove you wrong, and you cannot prove me wrong. With so many factors and different eras and rules it is just preference over which back you like. Barry Sanders has a case for it for sure, but at the same point in time so does Jim Brown. I guess it is discussions like these that let you go back and look at all the all time greats and just remember how great they where.

You make some good points. However, I believe you are arguing as to who
had the most successful career with his team, whereas I am arguing as to
who was the the best performer on the field. There is a difference.

This is why, although they are a factor, numbers do not necessarily
comprise a major factor in such an evaluation. Sayers did not put up as
good of numbers because he did not have the supporting cast: He played
on a pathetic team. Floyd Little, incidentally, is an other example of that:
an elite back by talent who was brought down by the worst offensive line
I have ever witnessed.

I am going by what I have observed. When I watched the Steelers play, I
was impressed by how the Steelers moved the ball. I do not recall singling
Bettis out in my mind very often as to what he was doing. It was always
the Steelers offense as a whole. I do remember being impressed by the
gaping holes that OL habitually created.

Sayers, on the other hand, constantly caught my eye, individually, as to
what he was doing. You could have used my mouth as a garage as I
watched him do his thing. Same with Brown, Little, Sanders, Simpson, et al.

Sorry, but I still have to place Bettis as among the best of the very good,
but not in the elite. He was the beneficiary of a superb supporting cast.

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Originally Posted by topscribe

You make some good points. However, I believe you are arguing as to who
had the most successful career with his team, whereas I am arguing as to
who was the the best performer on the field. There is a difference.

This is why, although they are a factor, numbers do not necessarily
comprise a major factor in such an evaluation. Sayers did not put up as
good of numbers because he did not have the supporting cast: He played
on a pathetic team. Floyd Little, incidentally, is an other example of that:
an elite back by talent who was brought down by the worst offensive line
I have ever witnessed.

I am going by what I have observed. When I watched the Steelers play, I
was impressed by how the Steelers moved the ball. I do not recall singling
Bettis out in my mind very often as to what he was doing. It was always
the Steelers offense as a whole. I do remember being impressed by the
gaping holes that OL habitually created.

Sayers, on the other hand, constantly caught my eye, individually, as to
what he was doing. You could have used my mouth as a garage as I
watched him do his thing. Same with Brown, Little, Sanders, Simpson, et al.

Sorry, but I still have to place Bettis as among the best of the very good,
but not in the elite. He was the beneficiary of a superb supporting cast.

-----

I understand that a supporting cast is a really big deal, but in my opinion Bettis was the lynch pin of that offense in his prime. If you want to beat the Colts you have to stop Manning first and foremost, if you wanted to beat the 9ers you had to be able to stop Jerry Rice, if you wanted to beat the Steelers you had to stop Bettis. I guess I am just a huge fan of longevity, I think that to have a truly great career you have to have at least some longevity. It is easier to be great for a few years then be a consistent top player for many years. I suppose this debate has prolly come to an end, we won't cover any new ground. I disagree with you, but thank you for the discussion. All time great discussions are always fun, unless you do it with a Steelers fan.