Thread: If Bowlen is smart...he will not allow the broncos to draft Luck.

Originally Posted by broken12

Alex smith isnt as bad as he looks...never been in same offense for mote than a year

Football Credibility of Broken12 takes direct hit. Move on people - nothing to see here.

Originally Posted by MileHiWildcat

What a load of horse shit.

Actually it's a pretty proven fact if you look at the history books...maybe you should invest in a book on the history and trends of professional football. Mobility does have it's advantages, but name the last quarterback that did not have a good pocket presence to win a championship? You have to be able to sit in the pocket more then run, this is a pass happy league and it's only getting happier by the season. Even Vick has learned the importance of having to stay in the pocket more then counting on his legs. You can bet you're ass that Elway will want Tebow to be transformed to a more pocket steady quarterback, because that's what a coach will want at this level. And even though Vick has learned the importance, he is still a very mobile quarterback, do you think he's a favorite to win a championship? No, that would be Cutler, Manning, Brady and Ryan...wonder what they have in common?

Originally Posted by EMB6903

and for the 10000000000000001th time...

Andrew Luck is not going to be available.

Just because Denver wants him doesnt mean the #1 pick is available regardless what offer you throw at Carolina... most scouts (like Carolina) think Andrew Luck is a once in a lifetime prospect, they arent going to trade that away for average talent.

(not calling out Nomad, many people actually think this team has a slight chance at luck when thats not the case)

If the right package is in place, yes, Luck can be available, but I guarantee you this would be Elway's pass or fail decision in his BRONCOS FO career because he'll have to give up alot!!

Originally Posted by MileHiWildcat

Football Credibility of Broken12 takes direct hit. Move on people - nothing to see here.

cmon he has better stats than our qbs so then he must be better than anyone we got then huh?

Originally Posted by Nomad

If the right package is in place, yes, Luck can be available, but I guarantee you this would be Elway's pass or fail decision in his BRONCOS FO career because he'll have to give up alot!!

Agreed, it will not be cheap...

I think the tell-tale sign will be what happens with Harbaugh, I really do. Most coaches are going to want their choice for quarterback, we don't know how the other plausible candidates will feel being stuck with Tebow. Denver may have to base their list off those willing to work with the kid or not. Like one poster said, Luck is guaranteed to go to Carolina because new regime means new quarterback. My question to those who don't seem to grasp the idea is what are we going to be? A used, old staff? We will be a new regime as well...hello?

**** luck.

Originally Posted by Nomad

If the right package is in place, yes, Luck can be available, but I guarantee you this would be Elway's pass or fail decision in his BRONCOS FO career because he'll have to give up alot!!

I know fans want to believe that but no... There most likely isnt "the right package" to bring in the #1 pick to draft Luck. Hes one of those type of prospects.. Carolina isnt stupid enough to trade away a potential HOF type of Quarterback for "depth".. I'd say at this point Luck has more trade value then Cutler did when we traded with Chicago... Hes that good

sorry its just not going to happen.

Originally Posted by Lancane

Actually it's a pretty proven fact if you look at the history books...maybe you should invest in a book on the history and trends of professional football. Mobility does have it's advantages, but name the last quarterback that did not have a good pocket presence to win a championship? You have to be able to sit in the pocket more then run, this is a pass happy league and it's only getting happier by the season. Even Vick has learned the importance of having to stay in the pocket more then counting on his legs. You can bet you're ass that Elway will want Tebow to be transformed to a more pocket steady quarterback, because that's what a coach will want at this level. And even though Vick has learned the importance, he is still a very mobile quarterback, do you think he's a favorite to win a championship? No, that would be Cutler, Manning, Brady and Ryan...wonder what they have in common?

There are books on the history of winning with pocket passers??? Is it on Adam Shefters book case???

Tebow plays well in a couple of games and all the fans are thinking he's the next Elway?

I saw a very raw QB who made some mistakes but made some good plays as well. Maybe he'll improve a lot in the off-season -- because he sure needs to work on his mechanics and reads. You saw him getting schooled a bunch today -- not surprising for a rookie, but not good either.

It's all academic anyway because the Broncos are NOT drafting #1 and Luck is the consensus #1 pick. Period. The Panthers will either draft him or trade their pick to someone who will.

In fact they can do what the Chargers did with Eli Manning --- pick him and then trade him. (Remember Manning said publicly that he did not want to play in San Diego so taking him was very controversial -- but it worked out great for SD. They got Rivers AND Shawne Merriman out of that deal!)

Given how horrible the team is on defense, they probably need Bowers, but we'll see what happens. Patrick Peterson wouldn't be a horrible choice either.

Either one would make me pretty happy. No matter what happens, with the #2 pick the Broncos are guaranteed to get a very good player - UNLESS they totally SCREW UP!

We should wind up with a Mario Williams type DE who can lights-out rush the passer. Bowers is that guy.

I mean, this defense was ranked 31st in the NFL. They can switch to 4-3, 3-4, whatever they want! It's not as if they are stacked with talent they don't want to lose by changing systems!

They need to lose about 8 starters on defense (Not counting Champ Bailey who's gone). That means they keep DJ and Dumervil as starters and everybody else is on the bubble whether they stay or go!

Originally Posted by sneakers

There are books on the history of winning with pocket passers??? Is it on Adam Shefters book case???

Never heard of a history book? You do know that they have those for all American Sports, correct. I would suggest Quest: History of the NFL by Kelly Bell or maybe 75 Seasons: The Complete History of the National Football League by Will McDonough. There's also The Little League That Could: A History of the American Football League by Ken Rappoport. PRO FOOTBALL the world of the NFL by Mike Rathet is a good one and one of my favorites would be America's game: the epic story of how pro football captured a nation by Michael MacCambridge and even From sandlots to the Super Bowl: the National Football League by Craig R. Coenen.

You could always start with Football for Dummies by Howie Long.

Originally Posted by sneakers

There are books on the history of winning with pocket passers??? Is it on Adam Shefters book case???

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ged-the-game/1

The one wrinkle you say will never come is having an offense that features spread QBs. Why is that?

I say that because of the injury factor. When you have these mobile running quarterbacks they just get the hell beat out of them. We saw it with Michael Vick. You are going to get these guys for four quarters, four games, eight games, whatever it is. Ultimately you get hit with a helmet on the wrist. And if you're an offensive lineman you can play. If you are running back you can play, if you are a quarterback you are on the sideline. I think it is so hard with the spread, wildcat, the wishbone, for a guy a to play the quarterback because the speed of the NFL is amazing. Guys who take those hits can not line up and take those hits. It is that simple to me. It is hard to convey that to the average fan. Teams are not going to take the risk of having three spread quarterbacks on the roster. Down in Tennessee Vince Young is a great spread quarterback but if he gets hurt you go right to Kerry Collins which is the antithesis of Vince Young and the offense you are going to run. It is hard to find three guys with that skill set.

Originally Posted by elsid13

http://content.usatoday.com/communit...ged-the-game/1

The one wrinkle you say will never come is having an offense that features spread QBs. Why is that?

I say that because of the injury factor. When you have these mobile running quarterbacks they just get the hell beat out of them. We saw it with Michael Vick. You are going to get these guys for four quarters, four games, eight games, whatever it is. Ultimately you get hit with a helmet on the wrist. And if you're an offensive lineman you can play. If you are running back you can play, if you are a quarterback you are on the sideline. I think it is so hard with the spread, wildcat, the wishbone, for a guy a to play the quarterback because the speed of the NFL is amazing. Guys who take those hits can not line up and take those hits. It is that simple to me. It is hard to convey that to the average fan. Teams are not going to take the risk of having three spread quarterbacks on the roster. Down in Tennessee Vince Young is a great spread quarterback but if he gets hurt you go right to Kerry Collins which is the antithesis of Vince Young and the offense you are going to run. It is hard to find three guys with that skill set.

I haven't read that one yet...I'll have to buy it.

Originally Posted by Lancane

Mobility does have it's advantages, but name the last quarterback that did not have a good pocket presence to win a championship? You have to be able to sit in the pocket more then run, this is a pass happy league and it's only getting happier by the season.

Even Vick has learned the importance of having to stay in the pocket more then counting on his legs. You can bet you're ass that Elway will want Tebow to be transformed to a more pocket steady quarterback, because that's what a coach will want at this level.

And even though Vick has learned the importance, he is still a very mobile quarterback, do you think he's a favorite to win a championship? No, that would be Cutler, Manning, Brady and Ryan...wonder what they have in common?

That's entirely correct! Look at the history of the last 18 SB Champions!

Aikman -- 3 SB
Steve Young
Favre
Elway - 2
Warner
Brady
Peyton Manning
Eli Manning
Ben Roethlisberger (2)
Drew Brees

Every single one of them elite pocket passing QBs. Some had mobility (Young, Favre), others didn't (Manning, Brees).

But, it takes an ELITE QB to win the SB (unless you have the Bears '86, the Ravens 2000 or the Bucs 2002 "best in NFL history" type defenses -- in which case you can win with anybody).

Is Tebow ever going to be that kind of elite pocket passer? He's shown NO signs of it yet, but he'll have some chances to prove himself next year.

Remember that Steve Young was more of a running QB when he came into the league and had to work on his pocket passing, yet he managed to wind up in the Hall of Fame.

Tebow has light-years to go to be in the class with Steve Young or any of the other SB winning QBs on that list -- but it's too early to say he CAN'T do it.

All we can say is that there's NO evidence so far (in only 4 games). But, the lack of evidence is not yet evidence of lack!

Originally Posted by Nomad

My speculative view......If Elway happens to lure Harbough to Denver as the new HC, then I would bet anything he packages players (I wouldn't be surprised to see Tebow in the package) and picks (more than likely our 1st and another) to get Andrew Luck! BRONCOS pick up a stud DL in FA!!

I like Tebow and hope it doesn't happen like this and we go defense, but this scenerio wouldn't surprise me!!

BTW, Tune in tomorrow night and watch the Orange Bowl! Luck will be playing against one of the best secondaries in college football!!

John Elway will also be in attendance for this game. He is being honored during the game and it is reported he will meet with Harbaugh shortly after to discuss being HC for the Broncos.

Originally Posted by Lancane

Actually it's a pretty proven fact if you look at the history books...maybe you should invest in a book on the history and trends of professional football. Mobility does have it's advantages, but name the last quarterback that did not have a good pocket presence to win a championship? You have to be able to sit in the pocket more then run, this is a pass happy league and it's only getting happier by the season. Even Vick has learned the importance of having to stay in the pocket more then counting on his legs. You can bet you're ass that Elway will want Tebow to be transformed to a more pocket steady quarterback, because that's what a coach will want at this level. And even though Vick has learned the importance, he is still a very mobile quarterback, do you think he's a favorite to win a championship? No, that would be Cutler, Manning, Brady and Ryan...wonder what they have in common?

Well,lets see. Cutler, Brady, and Ryan have very damn good defenses. Manning not so much this year, but still, history would prove you right. TT can sure make a game fun to watch though. Even today--Man, I was on the edge of my seat until the last play.

That takes a special talent IMHO. So far he has pulled some pretty cool stuff out of the hat in the 2nd halves of the 2 games he really had game plans designed for him. He just keeps coming at you and the rest of the team seems to step up and follow his lead. THAT is called leadership and can take a team a long ways.