Thread: Why the team was DOOMED from the start with Josh McDaniel's

First of all, let's get some facts cleared up.

The 2008 Denver Broncos finished the season with an offense that could fly up and down the field (who had troubles scoring), along with a powder puff defense coached by Bob Slowick.

The final rankings of the offense / defense:

Offense:

2008 offensive yards/game: 395.8

2008 offensive points/game: 23.1

2008 offensive ranking: #2 Overall


Defense:

2008 defense yards/game: 374.6

2008 points/game given up: 28.0

2008 final ranking of defense: #29 overall


Right from those specific statistics, which side of the ball needed more work? It's not calculus, or rocket science. It's not even a hard question. It's a simple answer: the defense.


The defense? It's CLEAR that the #29th ranked defense needed a MAJOR makeover.

Out goes Shanahan. A lot of people tend to forget that one of the MAIN reasons Shanahan was let go as our coach was because he didn't want to get rid of one of the weakest parts of the defense, the defensive coordinator of the #29th ranked defense: Bob Slowick.

Three league sources said Tuesday afternoon that in a short meeting, Bowlen had wanted Shanahan to make changes on the team's coaching staff, particularly with defensive coordinator Bob Slowik, and that Shanahan had refused. http://www.rockymountainnews.com/new...ree-part-ways/

Bowlen wanted a new coordinator, Shanahan didn't want to make the change. In the end, with the epic ending failure of 2008 season along with this notion, Shanahan was fired.

In comes McDaniel's as the Broncos next head coach. Here is this young coach who helped coach the Patriots to the Super Bowl, with a history breaking offense.

Some people said, why not grab a defensive minded coach? There were guys like Steve Spagnuolo and Leslie Frazier out there who even came in for an interview.

But Bowlen didn't want them, he wanted McDaniel's because he was a young and intriguing coach to him. He hired him on the notion that he was coming from a team who he helped coordinate offensively to the Super Bowl, but he also hired him on the notion that he had a job to do; fix the defense. This is Pat Bowlen, one of the most classiest, trusted, and friendliest GMs to his players. Don't even believe for one second that he had any idea of what McDaniel's was going to do to the offense, and to #6 when he hired him...

"I looked at the possibility (of hiring a defensive-oriented coach), but the chance to get this young man was very intriguing to me. I think he's going to be a great head coach. I think he'll fix our defense." -- Bowlen, after announcing the hiring of 32-year-old New England Patriots offensive coordinator Josh McDaniels as Broncos head coach, Jan. 12, 2009.

So, McD is now the head coach of the #2 offense and the #29 ranked defense. Right from his very FIRST press conference, McD spoke highly of that offense (specifically Cutler) and what he wanted to accomplish with him:

I think Jay is going to enjoy playing in this system, this offense. It is very quarterback-friendly once you get to the point where you can use all the tools that it gives the quarterback. Obviously, he is a very important part of our success going forward and I can't wait to get started working with him." -- McDaniel's, addressing a question about Cuter in his introductory press conference, Jan. 12, 2009.

Cutler, was also on board with McDaniel's shortly after meeting him for the first time:

"It went really well," Cutler said. "We talked about a lot of stuff. He's very energetic. When I got off the phone, I was excited. I really was. . . . Just talked to him about the importance of our relationship."

Good work coach. I was STOKED at this stage of the game. New young head coach sought out his star 25 year old QB, and established a great relationship.

There was only ONE thing to do next, and that was FIX the #29th ranked defense.


Instead, we all know what happened. Josh McDaniel's decided to toy with his #2 offense, and put out Jay Cutler on the trading block when he heard Matt Cassel was available. The trade attempt failed, and McD lied and covered it up with the press/fan friendly response:

"He is our quarterback."

We all know what happens next, so let's talk about the present day.


Has Josh McDaniel's upgraded the team since 2008? No he hasn't.

Let's go back to the team offensive/defensive statistics:

2008 offensive yards/game: 395.8
2010 offensive yards/game: 359.5

2008 offensive points/game: 23.1
2010 offensive points/game: 21.7

2008 offensive ranking: #2 Overall
2010 current ranking: #11 Overall

2008 defense yards/game: 374.6
2010 defense yards/game: 375.6


2008 points/game given up: 28.0
2010 points/game given up: 28.7

2008 final ranking of defense: #29 overall
2010 current ranking of defense: #26 overall

As you can see, the #2 overall offense has slipped to the #11 overall offense. A downgrade. 2010 offense is averaging less yards/game along with fewer points. One will say there isn't a BIG difference, but there is a difference none the less.... It's a downgrade.

How about that defense? Take a look... Josh McDaniel's has upgraded the #29th ranked defense to #26!!! :clap: Woohoo! Oh wait, take a closer look.... The 2010 defense has given up more yards/game with more points/game than the 2008 defense. This could be either good or bad... There are some games left, but seeing how the Rams could put up 431 yards and 36 points... Those numbers could actually increase (while the overall ranking could fall).



So here we are. Sitting at 3-8; 5-16 since the first six weeks of 2009.

Josh McDaniel's had ONE job to do when he arrived, and that was to fix the 2008 #29th ranked defense.

But oh no... he had to start with the 25 year old QB and the #2 offense.


So here we are today. Judging by our current recorded we have gotten worse. Judging by our offense, it has been downgraded significantly. Judging our defense? Well... I guess you could say we are either equal/worse than 2008.

We were doomed from the start.

Nice post.

I think a Top Gun quote is appropriate here:

"Son, your ego is writing checks your body can't cash."

When "The Head Coach", aka McDaniels, decided to get into a pissing match with "The Player", aka Cutler, it started a spiral that forced McDaniels to focus much of his first two drafts on offense.

Fact is, even now, many people defend the Cutler and Marshall trades in various ways -- they didn't want to be here, one mistake away from 8 game suspension, head case, pouts on sideline, etc. -- but, the fact is that EVERY other team in the league deals with their young, immature talent, they don't ship them off to other teams.

If he had recognized what he had in Hillis from the '08 game film, he might not have drafted Moreno, and we could have had Orakpo or someone else, but even without that recognition (which I understand), there was no reason he had to rebuild what was the number two offense. He should have worked that game plan magic to improve the red zone, that's all that he should have done.

He should have fixed the defense, which was what was, and still is, broken. Even Mr. Bowlen said he was surprised by the lack of defensive players drafted the first year (in the Woody Paige interview, where he referred to McD's rookie mistakes in the draft, and early months of his tenure).

I dunno, he looked like the right guy his first 6 games he coached.

I think he is trying to run a circus with housecats instead of tigers...maybe if he gets his guys in that he wants, things will improve...but will the broncos give him that long?

Can't argue with that much. Sickening and disgusting as it is . . .

-----

Glad to see this posted over here, Peerless

Boo This Man!!! Boo Josh McDaniels!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76p_ncbffCE

Great post OP. That really sums up the state of the Broncos. It's saddeningly ironic that the 2008 offense was better than the one we have today despite the high draft picks and time in the system... I miss Cutler more and more every day.

The defense is just a joke. Bob Slowik was better than this. The Rams moved the ball at will.

McDaniels may or may not have lost the players yet, but he's losing us fans rapidly.

Originally Posted by sneakers

I dunno, he looked like the right guy his first 6 games he coached.

I think he is trying to run a circus with housecats instead of tigers...maybe if he gets his guys in that he wants, things will improve...but will the broncos give him that long?

ummmmm everyone here are HIS GUYS! and it's a circus act

Nice post dude!!!!!!

ZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....................




Just what we needed.

I didn't realize offenses and defenses were measured by yards. Everyone likes to talk about how good Shanny's O was when he left. Yeah it was good between the 20s gaining lots of yards but avg when you look at the scoreboard. The scoreboard doesn't count yards, it counts points and in the end the only measuring stick there is is wins and losses.

Originally Posted by TimBuff10

I didn't realize offenses and defenses were measured by yards. Everyone likes to talk about how good Shanny's O was when he left. Yeah it was good between the 20s gaining lots of yards but avg when you look at the scoreboard. The scoreboard doesn't count yards, it counts points and in the end the only measuring stick there is is wins and losses.

Yes.. but with young players that were only growing in the NFL. CLady was a rookie, Royal, and Hillis.. rookies. Marshall and Scheffler and Cutler were only in their third season.

So you had YOUNG guys, that were producing WELL in the NFL despite a lack of experience in the league. Having nearly 400 yrds offense in the NFL with that young of a corp, is pretty DAMNED good.

At least it showed promise with promising young players.

Actually,

I'd say we were more doomed, because it is insulting to fans of a franchise that has bitchslapped the Patriots in good years and bad, to only have the 'Patriots Way' shoved down our throats. I am not saying that is right and I am not saying it is all that rational, but Denver owned NE for the better part of two decades and even BB struggled mightily to solve Denver and Shanahan. The fan base I don't really believe ever respected the Patriots way... the Steelers way (say bringing in that would be different), but ultimately McDaniels was never going to be fully loved... it was always an uncomfortable fit and it was even more so when Shanahan lost faith in his own ways.

See, Shanahan was ruined here actually by the bullet he missed. He knew very well that Denver had no answer for the monster that was Randy Moss in 1998, one very poorly timed FG helped Denver avoid a very very scary battle... the next year we sold our franchises soul by bringing in one of the very greatest enemies of Denver, a CB who ended the season of a true class act in Lionel Washington with what is still the worst cheap shot I've seen in a Broncos game. From that point forward, Shanahan instead of being cutting edge innovator became mr. I'm going to try and copy everyone else... he signed Dale Carter, then he proceeded to pour resources and money into becoming some stalwart D that we never had the proper coaches or talent evaluators for... as hard as it is to say... Greg Robinson was a big reason those teams were successful... his D's gave up a ton of big plays, but when you have an elite offense, the trick is to give your Offense more possessions than the opposition and you will win a VERY high percentage of the time... so we had an all-world offense teamed with a D that could score TDs themselves and did a great job getting turnovers and forcing other teams into mistakes. Until the Pats came along people seemed to understand that the league had become 1-dimensional... you need to be great on one side of the ball, and average in a complimentary way on the other side. The Pats were this very amorphous blob of a team with no clearly identifiable 'great', they didn't truly wow you or scare you on either side of the ball. They won that first Super Bowl by literally tackling Faulk out of the backfield in a game where the officials shelved their whistles and allowed it to occur. They became the San Antonio Spurs of the NFL... they had Brady their perfect caretaker accurate QB (the quintessential QB of the 2000s) and the best at it and built this team around him that cut every corner, used every dirty trick to fight their way to the top.

It was fairly offensive to have that Patriots Way brought to Denver, that arrogance (McD always thought Cutler was a punk and he may have been right, but doesn't mean he shouldn't have at least tried to make it work with him) and just blew up a team that was on the verge of something but needed someone to fix the red zone offense and D. So out went a bunch of beloved fan favorites and in came Patriots... and when you stack the deck against yourself that way... it never had a chance, not really. It's always been an uneasy marriage for most Broncos fans... and it has only been compounded by some of the worst aspects of the Patriots way... an often ineffective uninspiring rushing attack and embarrassment for cheating coupled with an unprecedented losing streak in the Bowlen era. It was ultimately a horrible decision from the start and bad bad choice.

Originally Posted by JDL

Actually,

I'd say we were more doomed, because it is insulting to fans of a franchise that has bitchslapped the Patriots in good years and bad, to only have the 'Patriots Way' shoved down our throats. I am not saying that is right and I am not saying it is all that rational, but Denver owned NE for the better part of two decades and even BB struggled mightily to solve Denver and Shanahan. The fan base I don't really believe ever respected the Patriots way... the Steelers way (say bringing in that would be different), but ultimately McDaniels was never going to be fully loved... it was always an uncomfortable fit and it was even more so when Shanahan lost faith in his own ways.

See, Shanahan was ruined here actually by the bullet he missed. He knew very well that Denver had no answer for the monster that was Randy Moss in 1998, one very poorly timed FG helped Denver avoid a very very scary battle... the next year we sold our franchises soul by bringing in one of the very greatest enemies of Denver, a CB who ended the season of a true class act in Lionel Washington with what is still the worst cheap shot I've seen in a Broncos game. From that point forward, Shanahan instead of being cutting edge innovator became mr. I'm going to try and copy everyone else... he signed Dale Carter, then he proceeded to pour resources and money into becoming some stalwart D that we never had the proper coaches or talent evaluators for... as hard as it is to say... Greg Robinson was a big reason those teams were successful... his D's gave up a ton of big plays, but when you have an elite offense, the trick is to give your Offense more possessions than the opposition and you will win a VERY high percentage of the time... so we had an all-world offense teamed with a D that could score TDs themselves and did a great job getting turnovers and forcing other teams into mistakes. Until the Pats came along people seemed to understand that the league had become 1-dimensional... you need to be great on one side of the ball, and average in a complimentary way on the other side. The Pats were this very amorphous blob of a team with no clearly identifiable 'great', they didn't truly wow you or scare you on either side of the ball. They won that first Super Bowl by literally tackling Faulk out of the backfield in a game where the officials shelved their whistles and allowed it to occur. They became the San Antonio Spurs of the NFL... they had Brady their perfect caretaker accurate QB (the quintessential QB of the 2000s) and the best at it and built this team around him that cut every corner, used every dirty trick to fight their way to the top.

It was fairly offensive to have that Patriots Way brought to Denver, that arrogance (McD always thought Cutler was a punk and he may have been right, but doesn't mean he shouldn't have at least tried to make it work with him) and just blew up a team that was on the verge of something but needed someone to fix the red zone offense and D. So out went a bunch of beloved fan favorites and in came Patriots... and when you stack the deck against yourself that way... it never had a chance, not really. It's always been an uneasy marriage for most Broncos fans... and it has only been compounded by some of the worst aspects of the Patriots way... an often ineffective uninspiring rushing attack and embarrassment for cheating coupled with an unprecedented losing streak in the Bowlen era. It was ultimately a horrible decision from the start and bad bad choice.

This post perfectly outlines why McDaniels was the right man for the job. This team and it's fanbase was too infatuated with streaky playmakers and gunslingers rather than solid, professional football players. We needed some massive culture shock here, regardless of whether it "offended" our ever fragile fan base. No matter what happens with the rest of McDaniels' tenure here, installing the team first "Patriot Way" made it worth it.

Originally Posted by Bosco

This post perfectly outlines why McDaniels was the right man for the job. This team and it's fanbase was too infatuated with streaky playmakers and gunslingers rather than solid, professional football players. We needed some massive culture shock here, regardless of whether it "offended" our ever fragile fan base. No matter what happens with the rest of McDaniels' tenure here, installing the team first "Patriot Way" made it worth it.

wow.... just, wow.

Originally Posted by TimBuff10

I didn't realize offenses and defenses were measured by yards. Everyone likes to talk about how good Shanny's O was when he left. Yeah it was good between the 20s gaining lots of yards but avg when you look at the scoreboard. The scoreboard doesn't count yards, it counts points and in the end the only measuring stick there is is wins and losses.

Ok Tim,

Let's measure it in wins and losses and to be fair we will take shanahan's last two seasons where we missed the playoffs (no need to count the two superbowls and conference championships, they mean nothing).

Shanahan

2007 W 7 L 9
2008 W 9 L 7

McDaniels

2009 W 8 L 8
2010 W 3 L 7

I am going to go out on a limb here and say that the W column is definitely not going to exceed the L column this year. We are clearly going backwards.

Is that a good enough measurement for you?