Thread: Point-Counter Point:Broncos: Deserve credit or just lucky?

Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman

Only one comment. This isn't a Jake or for that matter, a JAY thread.

The point came up, so I responded to the point.

I do not take issue with a side coment once in a while. That does not
constitute "off-topic." You took issue because you don't like Jake. Fine.
Ignore it, and go on your way. Simple.

-----

I dont mind a FB dive inside the five but the last one that we ran was inside their 15 and it was on a 2nd and 10. I think some of the play calling goes a little more conservative after Cutler turns the ball over. It seems like they try to take the pressure off him so to not compound mistakes and let him settle down again.

The original question whether the Broncos deserve credit for their two wins or were they just lucky is irrelevant. To win by complete domination on both sides of the ball counts as a W. To win mainly with either the defensive side or the offensive side counts as a W. To win on one play or an officials call counts as a W. There are no degrees of winning nor are there any style points given. The Broncos are 2-0. There is no deserving credit to be considered. Why you won or why you lost is IMO meaningless justification.

I am sure that Mike Shanahan appreciates meaningfull critique and suggestions in play calling. I would imagine that he will take it under advisement. His offenses have struggled during his twelve years with the Broncos.

If there is one thing that I have learned in my 40+ years of football, you are never as good as you think that you are when you win and never as bad as you think that you are when you lose. IMO that concept applies to the Jay vs Jake comparisons. Jay is the Denver QB why not compare him to himself- compare what he did or didn't do this game to the Buffalo game or to his play last year.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

Well now have you factored in who was available to help move that ball this year vs last year.

Henry>>>>tater who could have never gained any yards behind this years OLINE
graham>>alexander
walker>>>walker who was coming off a ACL
Marshall>>smith who was playing on one hip

Then you might compare them to who we played.

STL>> BUF much better offense in STL def was not to shabby either

We had zip on our DLine last year and coyer was a joke.

Have we moved the ball better then last year sure have

but it is not all Jay vs Jake here either.

This ISN'T a Jay vs Jake; my statement had to do with the TEAM doing better offensively this year than last year, in response to the statement that Denver's always been great at moving the ball from the 20 to the 20.

On your Bills vs. Rams comparison, you could also note that on defense, they were both good against the pass, and both poor against the run, but with both stats, the Bills were BETTER than the Rams. (Passing Defense '06: Bills 7th, Rams 8th; Rushing Defense: Bills 28th, Rams 31st).

The difference is, against what was last season the 7th best passing defense in the league, the Broncos were able to gain about 300 yards passing. (added) Last season, against the 8th best pass defense, we were only able to gain 98 yards passing.

So yes, like my original point, this TEAM has a much better offense than last year's team. I did not make a Jay vs. Jake reference here. I compared the offenses of the TEAMS.

Originally Posted by Dean

The original question whether the Broncos deserve credit for their two wins or were they just lucky is irrelevant. To win by complete domination on both sides of the ball counts as a W. To win mainly with either the defensive side or the offensive side counts as a W. To win on one play or an officials call counts as a W. There are no degrees of winning nor are there any style points given. The Broncos are 2-0. There is no deserving credit to be considered. Why you won or why you lost is IMO meaningless justification.

I am sure that Mike Shanahan appreciates meaningfull critique and suggestions in play calling. I would imagine that he will take it under advisement. His offenses have struggled during his twelve years with the Broncos.

If there is one thing that I have learned in my 40+ years of football, you are never as good as you think that you are when you win and never as bad as you think that you are when you lose. IMO that concept applies to the Jay vs Jake comparisons. Jay is the Denver QB why not compare him to himself- compare what he did or didn't do this game to the Buffalo game or to his play last year.

Great post, Dean!

A win is a win, and an ugly win counts as much as a perfect looking one. And just to add, even "polished" teams like Indy have bad games or the matchups that make them look less mighty than they are. No one would confuse the Titans as one of the best teams in the league, yet the Colts seem to play their worst against them.

Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman

Only one comment. This isn't a Jake or for that matter, a JAY thread.

Yeah, I agree, your comments as well as mine have had to do with this TEAM's offense being better this season than last season, not which had the better QB.

Originally Posted by omac

Yeah, I agree, your comments as well as mine have had to do with this TEAM's offense being better this season than last season, not which had the better QB.

Exactly!!

I can agree that both make good points for their case and after we play the Colts and Chargers, we will surely see where we stand. Shanahan has a lot of toys (weapons) to play with this year and will get everything clicking. True, we have won by 1 and 3 points in weeks 1 and 2 respectivley, but you have to realize that we have put up 400+ yds. each game. If we keep putting up those yards then 30 point games will come.

Our run is suspect at the moment and is something that is going to have to fixed for us to be a solid team. We are only two games into a season with a new scheme........Rome wasn't built in a day.

The one thing I have a problem with the "lucky" side are his comments on Cutler. The reference to Plummer on Jay's shuffle pass in Buffalo are totally different because as some people forget Jay has only played seven games and IMO is doing quite well considering. Plummer was making mistakes that a 10 year veteran shouldn't do.

Originally Posted by broncosfanscott

I can agree that both make good points for their case and after we play the Colts and Chargers, we will surely see where we stand. Shanahan has a lot of toys (weapons) to play with this year and will get everything clicking. True, we have won by 1 and 3 points in weeks 1 and 2 respectivley, but you have to realize that we have put up 400+ yds. each game. If we keep putting up those yards then 30 point games will come.

Our run is suspect at the moment and is something that is going to have to fixed for us to be a solid team. We are only two games into a season with a new scheme........Rome wasn't built in a day.

The one thing I have a problem with the "lucky" side are his comments on Cutler. The reference to Plummer on Jay's shuffle pass in Buffalo are totally different because as some people forget Jay has only played seven games and IMO is doing quite well considering. Plummer was making mistakes that a 10 year veteran shouldn't do.

I don't see a left handed shuffle pass as being a mistake, its just the same as throwing it down the field left handed.