Thread: Pro Football Focus Ratings for Baltimore game

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

then dont...from now on when it says profootball focus just dont read...probally make your day easier.....

Thank you. I made the mistake of thinking I was going to get some kind of objective nonbiased grading evaluation when I saw this thread. At least now I know.

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

Thank you. I made the mistake of thinking I was going to get some kind of objective nonbiased grading evaluation when I saw this thread. At least now I know.

yep its def orange koolaid right

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

yep its def orange koolaid right

irrelevant. It's guys looking at tape and making an assumption of what they think the player's assignments/reads are on that particular playcall = subjective and biased.

"Pass coverage"? How the hell do they know what their assignments are? "run blocking"?

I'm not disrespecting their opinion on evaluation, but let's not sit here and pretend they are making an accurate assumption based on the playcall, player's assignments, player reads...etc.

It's biased and subjective, just like any other evaluating format outside the coaches office.

Originally Posted by silkamilkamonico

irrelevant. It's guys looking at tape and making an assumption of what they think the player's assignments are = subjective and biased.

"Pass coverage"? How the hell do they know what their assignments are? "run blocking"?

I'm not disrespecting their opinion on evaluation, but let's not sit here and pretend they are making an accurate assumption based on the playcall, player's assignments, player reads...etc.

It's biased and subjective, just like any other evaluating format outside the coaches office.

as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....


the work they do is about as close to eval as you can get without game tape and far more advanced than posters here...i will rember to make sure not to post it here anymore.....

you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...


guess josina tweets are more important

RE-focused week 5 Baltimore vs Denver

Though Kyle Orton broke 300 passing yards for the fourth consecutive game, Baltimore’s pass defense limited the explosive Denver air attack just enough to decide the game on the ground — where the Ravens dominated, out-rushing the Broncos by almost 200 yards and gaining 2 yards more per carry.

An undisciplined showing by Denver, in which the Broncos were penalized 10 times, worked against Kyle Orton and company almost as much as the Ravens’ defense.


http://www.profootballfocus.com/blog...cos-at-ravens/

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....

Unless the coaches explain to them the specifics of the particular play, there will always be errors.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

I think the opinion concept is kind of the driving force behind any, and all message boards.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...

josina has some good info..

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

guess josina tweets are more important

I don't click into those misinformed threads either.

Originally Posted by Italianmobstr7

Don't understand how DJ only gets a C when he had 15 tackles which was 6 more than the closest person to him. These ratings are interesting tho. Hope we beat Jets but things don't look good especially with the injuries! I will always keep the faith and optimism tho! Go Broncos!

Making a tackle from behind after they have gained 4 +yards does not have the same effect as stopping them at or behind the LOS. IMO not sure if that is in there grading scale but it is in mine.

Originally Posted by Buff

Yeah, I just expected a few more failing grades. Our play was far below average collectively. On offense we didn't make it into the redzone until the 4th qtr if I remember correctly. And Baltimore pretty much moved the ball at will against our defense. Couldn't stop the run, couldn't stop the pass and our blitzes were getting snuffed out at the line of scrimmage.

I remember when Kuper missed the Seattle game he said he could have played if it was just a knee injury, or just an ankle injury, but the two combined made it impossible. So I think he is more hurt than he is letting on. I don't think Denver would have rewarded him with the contract if they weren't confident in his abilities.

Unlike a lot of fans and members I have never been uber impressed with Kuper HE IMHO is a good ORG but will never be a pro bowler unless that is we win the super bowl and go undefeated then more players get allocades than maybe should get them.

Originally Posted by underrated29

If we can keep Kyle upright and with time we will own the jets. I am not nearly as worried about their offense as I was for Balt. IF the jets want to run, fine let them run, we will do what we can. But they are not going to score or move the ball and get tds against us if they run.

Meanwhile we are going to move the ball with our pass Offense, and we are going to do if fast. We should IMO be able to grab a lead and hold on for the win. It will be a close game but something like 24-21 us is reasonable imo.

Lets hope that they are gassed after the late game last night..

If we can do no huddle for the first 4 series they should wilt after that, playing at mile high with hopefully a home field crowd just might do it.

Originally Posted by BigDaddyBronco

I'm beginning to doubt the validity of these grades if Hochstein was rated the best OLineman during that game. I'm wondering if some of the pressures/penalties that Walton gave up were in double teams where Hochstein failed and Walton got blamed.

Maybe not, but Hochstein has never looked good to me.

Actually one of the holding calls came when kuper got hung up on another player and could not get the blitzer and Walton had to take him down opposed to Orton getting creamed.

I used to play ORG and that is part of the reason I'm not overly impressed with Kuper. maybe he is better than I think but I watch him a lot and he is certainly not what he was last year.

I think the opinion concept is kind of the driving force behind any, and all message boards.

So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

hochstein is a servicable vet coming off a bad knee injury.....i didnt expect him to play well....but all 4 besides him played bad the last few weeks, so maybe he did have a alright game. i dont know i dont watch tape im just a fan who listens to a site of guys that watch tape that i paid 90 bucks for...maybe im a tool and got hosed on the 90 but they seem pretty damn fair for the most part going all the way to last year......i havent seen anything galring or super erroneous everyone cant always be perfect...take and think what you want from them

i will give it a few more weeks but right now im not really inspired anymore to give the info here just how it is......

I for one really enjoy hearing from you on this and give you as satnding ovation for taking the time to do this for us.

Anyone that thinks it is crap keep your thoughts to your self or ignore the threads he starts.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

thanks wish more people could be constructive like you i dont always agree with them either but its not like they are painting a pretty picture of the team so im confused what the big issue is here....its just info.....dont see why the need to trash the site....

i like and support the site if people start to get crazy here there is no need for me to bring the info here anymore, i mean it takes me over an hour each time just to translate the number system they use to letter grade scale, why bother...if people crap on it.....

same as above there are ingrates in every forum do not let them get you down.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

as i stated in a few post in this thread had you read them they even disclaim themselves untill they get actual gametape there will always be errors....


the work they do is about as close to eval as you can get without game tape and far more advanced than posters here...i will rember to make sure not to post it here anymore.....

you all can continue to fight about jay cutler, peyton hillis, mike nolan and brandon marshall since those threads seem to be so much more constructive then genral info some website spent time preparing for fans....

they do all 32 teams every week every play and have for 5 years, so forgive me for feeling they may have some good info...


guess josina tweets are more important

good post

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...

Thanks for posting this

This guy is putting time and effort into this for the betterment of the forum, there is not need for anyone to crap on his effort.

It is understood that any grading system outside of the teams film room will have inaccuracies and those we will never see so take the reports for what they are better guesstimates than what 90% of the forum members make. They are at lest unbiased and will have the same inaccuracies for all teams.


Or at least I appreciate the time and effort that he has put into this. and realize that it will not be perfect.

Originally Posted by Dreadnought

So is respecting work put in by members to add content to the board. Are they definitive? Who the Hell knows; all we have are our own opinions, and every guy here who posts a lot on football issues has been catastrophically wrong about some aspect of the team or another over the past decade. That includes a few members here (whose names shall remain undisclosed) who have been known to come off as know-it-all blowhards from time to time notwithstanding their own near perfect records of being nearly always wrong. Me? I thought Brian Griese was going to be the next big thing after the 2000 season. The rest of you can remember your own embarrassing pronouncements.

Point is, when a guy puts in work to add valid content to the board it doesn't make much sense for anyone to belittle the guy or mock his source. Just skip the damned thing. Its not written anywhere that everyone has to weigh in on every topic. I skip all Brett Favre related threads for example...

Yeah, I dont get it at all. It is something to talk about, it is broncos and it is fun. Plus it is an evaluation.


How many times have people here gone GAGA over someone TC camp reports? We all do and we eat it up. Why arent we harping them?

I said last year that I thought Chad Jackson and Tim Crowder were looking awesome and we would regret it if we cut them. Well, so far I was Waaay off. But no one is giving me hell for it. Yet, most people high fived or MHS me for my evaluation. I did not have replay, slomo or cameras to break shit down. I do not even know the blocking schemes or plays run. I never played madden. I just know what looks good and what doesnt and report that.


These guys do the same thing, but they are less Bias then me. And they have replay, slowmo, films, and a general idea of what the play is called and who is supposed to do what and go where. Plus, they also have thoughts and ideas that we may not.


These are not bad at all, but for the neg nancies, can you say these Broncos Evaluation threads are worse than the Jagsbach TT is the second coming threads?


Get real, give him a break, and reply if you must, but do it in regards to the info and not someone who is doing something that I and others really enjoy.

Originally Posted by Elevation inc

they state themsleves that grading of Db's and Wr's in there grading scale formulas isnt always accurate to the T because the TV Broadcast doesnt give them them full picture alot with regards to the route assigments and exact coverage schemes, so there is some guess work there hence the errors.....

they even say themselves that untill they get game tape access they wont be able to always get a accurate judge 100% on DB's and Wr's.....for the most part they are pretty spot on with everything else, and better that any stat website out there by far.....

its all good though i love how everyone knows best, vs a website full of guys that work day and night to analyze the data, and put hours of film viewing in every day while casual fans just sit back and say whats on there mind as if its fact....guess i will bring this stuff elsewhere, where people actually want to look at it......

I'm sorry, are you personally involved in this project or something? That's the only reason I can see you being so offended.

Look, as I said in my original post, I appreciate what these guys are doing, the work that goes into it and the fact that they can admit they're giving out grades without enough info, but that doesn't change the fact that much of their analysis is WRONG. It's not just coverage assignments either (which btw, I and many others can tell you the basic coverage breakdown from TV broadcasts on about 85% of all plays) but other simple things like blocking assignments and the like.

If you want to keep posting them here, fine, be my guest. I certainly don't mind either way. Just understand that this analysis you're posting is literally a crap shoot as to whether it's correct or not and in my not so humble opinion, the knowledge and accuracy of those doing the analysis is just as legitimate of a discussion point.

Originally Posted by Bosco

I'm sorry, are you personally involved in this project or something? That's the only reason I can see you being so offended.

Look, as I said in my original post, I appreciate what these guys are doing, the work that goes into it and the fact that they can admit they're giving out grades without enough info, but that doesn't change the fact that much of their analysis is WRONG. It's not just coverage assignments either (which btw, I and many others can tell you the basic coverage breakdown from TV broadcasts on about 85% of all plays) but other simple things like blocking assignments and the like.

If you want to keep posting them here, fine, be my guest. I certainly don't mind either way. Just understand that this analysis you're posting is literally a crap shoot as to whether it's correct or not and in my not so humble opinion, the knowledge and accuracy of those doing the analysis is just as legitimate of a discussion point.

I think where Elevation is frustrated, is he is trying to bring something to the board to elevate the discussion above the normal sniping of "McDoofus" etc., and is feeling criticized without any alternate analysis being provided. I.E. griping without suggestions as to improvement.

I think we all get your point of "take it for what it's worth", and your comments that they sometimes don't even diagnose zone vs. man correctly is definitely something to keep in mind (especially if you had an example of it), but overall, it is nice to see something generated outside of Denver that at least attempts to give an unbiased view of each players individual performance. If you've got something better, by all means let us look at it.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

I think where Elevation is frustrated, is he is trying to bring something to the board to elevate the discussion above the normal sniping of "McDoofus" etc., and is feeling criticized without any alternate analysis being provided. I.E. griping without suggestions as to improvement.

I think we all get your point of "take it for what it's worth", and your comments that they sometimes don't even diagnose zone vs. man correctly is definitely something to keep in mind (especially if you had an example of it), but overall, it is nice to see something generated outside of Denver that at least attempts to give an unbiased view of each players individual performance. If you've got something better, by all means let us look at it.

I understand, and I'm not criticizing Elevation at all. I think he's a very good poster, one of the better ones on this forum and if he somehow felt my post was an attack on him then I sincerely apologize because that was not at all my intent.

anyone discrediting the site is being insanely nitpicky. no, it's not a perfect site, but it's absolutely better than any other form of analysis that we have access to. elevation is paying for this info and sharing it with us, which i appreciate greatly.

so until one of you debby-downers is going to go through every snap and do your own player-by-player analysis, then just smile and take this stuff for whatever you think it's worth, but don't shit all over the thread.

elevation.