Thread: Cutler says he can trust Martz, unlike McDaniels

Yea, no doubt in my mind that McDaniels was interested in getting a QB who he felt comfortable with running his offense. He handled it very badly (like a rookie HC) by getting owned by Belichick and Pioli and then trying to cover it up.

To me it's water under the bridge other than seeing if McDaniels was right in the football sense. Does another QB take us farther than what Cutler would have done. We'll never really know unless Cutler goes to the HOF or if the Broncos win 2 SB's and Cutler doesn't do anything.

I do know one thing. We haven't heard McD talk about any of the players he has cut or traded unless directly asked about it (i.e. the Bears preseason game last year). That tells me either McD is learning how to ignore the media, or he really is just focused with want he wants to create.

Originally Posted by rcsodak

So you didn't believe it til you heard him say it, but you believe what he says about McD?

I suspected it for a long while. The timeline of when the call was taken and when Jay found out totally matches up to what Jay claims at least as far as how i perceive it.

I believed it the 1st time, when the team said he wanted traded. It just made sense with who he was, his personality, his on-field actions, etc. Much the same, I believe McD when he said (and has PROVEN BY HIS ACTIONS), EVERYBODY is tradeable. McD admittedthat he took a phone call and listened to team offers. BB was his mentor...why wouldn't he. I actually think he's honest to a fault. And Cutler just got paid.
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I have no doubt then or now that Jay wanted to be traded. He couldnt get over the initial sneakiness of McD and that just steamrolled downhill from there. Ive stated from day one that Jay was ultimately the reason why he got traded and i never bought into the "I never wanted it to come to this" quote from him. Especially after he failed to communicate with Bowlen. But, theres also no doubt in my mind that McD was trying to be sneaky from the word go and then got caught and tried to lie about it. It was a bad move on his part to lie instead of just being upfront with Jay about it.

Originally Posted by Northman

I suspected it for a long while. The timeline of when the call was taken and when Jay found out totally matches up to what Jay claims at least as far as how i perceive it.



I have no doubt then or now that Jay wanted to be traded. He couldnt get over the initial sneakiness of McD and that just steamrolled downhill from there. Ive stated from day one that Jay was ultimately the reason why he got traded and i never bought into the "I never wanted it to come to this" quote from him. Especially after he failed to communicate with Bowlen. But, theres also no doubt in my mind that McD was trying to be sneaky from the word go and then got caught and tried to lie about it. It was a bad move on his part to lie instead of just being upfront with Jay about it.

I'm pretty sure that if McD was upfront with Jay that he would have gone emo anyway. He definately has a good case of prima donna in him.

Originally Posted by BigDaddyBronco

I'm pretty sure that if McD was upfront with Jay that he would have gone emo anyway. He definately has a good case of prima donna in him.

Maybe, but we as you eluded too in your previous post we may just never know how it would of panned out.

I'm gonna go eat a whopper combo at burger king

Originally Posted by Northman

Maybe, but we as you eluded too in your previous post we may just never know how it would of panned out.

True. Meh, water under the bridge.

Shannon Sharpe said that he never trusted Shanahan again after finding out he tried to trade him, so whats the difference? I know, for a FACT, that a lot of players have said that they NEVER trusted their former coach after they tried to trade them behind their backs. Many came forth and talked about it during the whole Cutler/McD ordeal.

So when I was reading this, I was thinking... "so what?" Of course he doesn't trust McD. Why should he? Why should we expect him to say differntly? Why should he have a different feeling then MANY players do about a person that tried to trade them away behind their backs? Its a pretty common feeling.

Hell.. I don't trust McD. I don't see any reason to think the Culter should.

Originally Posted by Northman

I suspected it for a long while. The timeline of when the call was taken and when Jay found out totally matches up to what Jay claims at least as far as how i perceive it.



I have no doubt then or now that Jay wanted to be traded. He couldnt get over the initial sneakiness of McD and that just steamrolled downhill from there. Ive stated from day one that Jay was ultimately the reason why he got traded and i never bought into the "I never wanted it to come to this" quote from him. Especially after he failed to communicate with Bowlen. But, theres also no doubt in my mind that McD was trying to be sneaky from the word go and then got caught and tried to lie about it. It was a bad move on his part to lie instead of just being upfront with Jay about it.

I don't think the "If you are trying to trade me, just go ahead and do it now" or whatever that quote was and "I never wanted it to come to this" are mutually exclusive.

I find out my wife is cheating, and I might say, "that's it, we're getting a divorce", but I would also be 100% correct and honest to say, "I never wanted it to come to this", but my wife's actions put me in a place where I thought I had not choice (this is a hypothetical, as my wife hasn't cheated on me and I'm not divorced).

McDaniels admits that he was approached at the combine and had not thought of trading Jay/trading for Cassel BEFORE that point, which was also clearly before the phone call that some claim he listned to and said "no", which McDaniels himself never says.

If you piece together what he has said on the record, he was approached at the combine by a couple teams about trading for Jay and getting Cassel (or something like that), and hadn't started considering that until that point. Then, he got the call about a trade for Jay, that would allow him to trade for Cassel (a three way trade, or two seperate straight trades with NE and one other club), but said he was "late to the game", implying not that he said "no", but that it was too late to make the move (which also doesn't imply that he would have pulled the trigger).

Then, when it all blows up, the team refuses to make a statement for days, possibly longer, and then a team spokesman says something like "Jay Cutler is our quarterback" or something inane llike that, and then a day or two later, McDaniels says the exact same short, prepared sentence.

Then, a couple weeks later or sometime down the road, when doing an interview (I think on ESPN), he says something like "Jay's our QB, we aren't trying to trade him, but anyone on the team can be traded if it improves our team". Again, going by memory, and that won't be exact, but it's the gist of it.

The point being, McDaniels himself admitted he didn't just take a call and say no, that he had been considering the possibility before the phone call, and then when that call came, was too late to make a trade.

That's all fine, although if you are going to have discussions about trading your QB hit the press, you really need to actually trade him, not be "late to the game" and have a pissed off starting QB.

However, what was really the problem was the game that McDaniels and the Broncos PR department did, where they tried to first say nothing, then parse words, then say he's not on the block, but we will trade anyone if we think we should. Every coach, every team will trade anyone if they think it will improve the team, so why state the obvious, when it will only further inflame the situation.

There are several other statements made during the time frame, but I don't have the time to look them up.

Originally Posted by Tned

He also admitted that he started thinking about trading for Cassell before he received that 'phone call', which he was then late to the game in responding to.

To be fair, I think many HC's want to bring in players that they are familiar with, already know the new system, and can help bridge the gap for the rest. But I hadn't heard that, t. Point me to where i can get caught up?
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Originally Posted by Tned

I don't think the "If you are trying to trade me, just go ahead and do it now" or whatever that quote was and "I never wanted it to come to this" are mutually exclusive.

I find out my wife is cheating, and I might say, "that's it, we're getting a divorce", but I would also be 100% correct and honest to say, "I never wanted it to come to this", but my wife's actions put me in a place where I thought I had not choice (this is a hypothetical, as my wife hasn't cheated on me and I'm not divorced).

McDaniels admits that he was approached at the combine and had not thought of trading Jay/trading for Cassel BEFORE that point, which was also clearly before the phone call that some claim he listned to and said "no", which McDaniels himself never says.

If you piece together what he has said on the record, he was approached at the combine by a couple teams about trading for Jay and getting Cassel (or something like that), and hadn't started considering that until that point. Then, he got the call about a trade for Jay, that would allow him to trade for Cassel (a three way trade, or two seperate straight trades with NE and one other club), but said he was "late to the game", implying not that he said "no", but that it was too late to make the move (which also doesn't imply that he would have pulled the trigger).

Then, when it all blows up, the team refuses to make a statement for days, possibly longer, and then a team spokesman says something like "Jay Cutler is our quarterback" or something inane llike that, and then a day or two later, McDaniels says the exact same short, prepared sentence.

Then, a couple weeks later or sometime down the road, when doing an interview (I think on ESPN), he says something like "Jay's our QB, we aren't trying to trade him, but anyone on the team can be traded if it improves our team". Again, going by memory, and that won't be exact, but it's the gist of it.

The point being, McDaniels himself admitted he didn't just take a call and say no, that he had been considering the possibility before the phone call, and then when that call came, was too late to make a trade.

That's all fine, although if you are going to have discussions about trading your QB hit the press, you really need to actually trade him, not be "late to the game" and have a pissed off starting QB.

However, what was really the problem was the game that McDaniels and the Broncos PR department did, where they tried to first say nothing, then parse words, then say he's not on the block, but we will trade anyone if we think we should. Every coach, every team will trade anyone if they think it will improve the team, so why state the obvious, when it will only further inflame the situation.

There are several other statements made during the time frame, but I don't have the time to look them up.

That interview, to me, came at a key moment of the entire problems that had occured. It was at that "high peak" moment, and in that interview he said "Jay Cutler is our starting QB".. and the interviewer, a woman, asked him directly at that point "but will he continue to be your QB?" His answer could have been the same thing he said about Scheff, Hillis, and Marshall. He could have simply said "Jay will be our starting QB for a long time" or anything of that nature. ANYTHING that would have given ANY player a sense of confidence. Instead, he chose to say "Jay is our starting QB".. refusing to give ANY kind of sign that he wanted Jay. THat was a pivotal statement that McD intentionally made so that any kind of mending-o-fences was lost.

But... either way. Maybe thats why McD chose to say those words about Scheff, Hillis and Marshall is because he learned from his mistakes and realized that saying those words doesn't BIND you to any contracts. YOu can still trade them away.

Originally Posted by weazel

I'm gonna go eat a whopper combo at burger king

:SPAMMER!!:

Ask for a Big Mac and then look cornfused when they answer you.
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Originally Posted by rcsodak

To be fair, I think many HC's want to bring in players that they are familiar with, already know the new system, and can help bridge the gap for the rest. But I hadn't heard that, t. Point me to where i can get caught up?
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I've posted it multiple times, it was from an interview he did with Peter King. I'll try and find it.

On the familiar part, I fully agree. I always had far less issue with McDaniels trying to trade Jay (didn't agree with it, but didn't have an issue with it) than I did people saying, "he took a phone call and said no -- Jay is whining over nothing", because there was no basis for those assertions. If you say, "McDaniels worked with Cassel and clearly felt he was a very good QB that knew his system and could get the Broncos winning the fastest" and the best I can come back with is, "well, maybe that year in NE was a fluke" or something like that.

McD, like every coach, is paid to make the tough decisions that he thinks will lead to wins.

Originally Posted by Tned

I don't think the "If you are trying to trade me, just go ahead and do it now" or whatever that quote was and "I never wanted it to come to this" are mutually exclusive.

I find out my wife is cheating, and I might say, "that's it, we're getting a divorce", but I would also be 100% correct and honest to say, "I never wanted it to come to this", but my wife's actions put me in a place where I thought I had not choice (this is a hypothetical, as my wife hasn't cheated on me and I'm not divorced).

Well, of course. But as i know first hand when it comes to opening my mouth first before thinking there is always consequences. But the problem for Jay was more than just words, it was his actions that helped along that process. In the end it was a stinging point for Jay and he just could not move on and he is the only one accountable for his own actions there.

Then, when it all blows up, the team refuses to make a statement for days, possibly longer, and then a team spokesman says something like "Jay Cutler is our quarterback" or something inane llike that, and then a day or two later, McDaniels says the exact same short, prepared sentence.

Then, a couple weeks later or sometime down the road, when doing an interview (I think on ESPN), he says something like "Jay's our QB, we aren't trying to trade him, but anyone on the team can be traded if it improves our team". Again, going by memory, and that won't be exact, but it's the gist of it.

Sure, at that point im sure that McD thought he could resolve the issue with Jay until the "we will do anything to make the team better" quote came from McD soured Jay some more.

That's all fine, although if you are going to have discussions about trading your QB hit the press, you really need to actually trade him, not be "late to the game" and have a pissed off starting QB.

All true.

However, what was really the problem was the game that McDaniels and the Broncos PR department did, where they tried to first say nothing, then parse words, then say he's not on the block, but we will trade anyone if we think we should. Every coach, every team will trade anyone if they think it will improve the team, so why state the obvious, when it will only further inflame the situation.

Again, all true. But my biggest beef with Jay is that before McD arrived it was HIS team. Meaning, Jay is supposed to worry about getting support from his fellow players and his Boss Bowlen. He disregarded any phone calls to both of them prior to be traded which showed me he was being more "selfish" than a "team" guy. If it were me i would of gone the route of making sure i was on the same page with my teammates and the guy who signs my checks. If McD wanted to play games i wouldnt of folded and fell for his games hook, line, and sinker. In the end Jay let his teammates down when he couldnt get his priorities straight. IMO

Originally Posted by weazel

I'm gonna go eat a whopper combo at burger king

Gotta have a milkshake with it as well!! Or go to Dairy Queen because they'll be closing down for the winter in a few weeks!!

Originally Posted by rcsodak

To be fair, I think many HC's want to bring in players that they are familiar with, already know the new system, and can help bridge the gap for the rest. But I hadn't heard that, t. Point me to where i can get caught up?
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Here's a post of mine from November.

Originally Posted by Tned

It would be great if everyone either agree to move on past it or actually rely on what little evidence that has been published, which is not that McDaniels and Xanders picked up the phone and said no.

I have never seen anything where Xanders and McDaniels said they listend to an offer and declined it. I have seen things where they said they were "late" to the party and didn't get a deal done. Here's one excerpt where McDaniels says that "after the deal for cassel didn't happen" other teams called and they weren't interested in getting draft picks for Jay. Those two statements (Cassel deal didn't happen, not interested in draft picks) makes it pretty clear that they were interested in Cassel for Cutler.

McDaniels admitted that the team got involved in trade discussions for Cassel, who instead was dealt to the Kansas City Chiefs. However, he said any perception Cutler felt that the team could still trade him was misleading.

"That's what we have communicated ever since the deal with Cassel didn't happen," McDaniels said. "Other teams have called but we're not interested in getting draft picks for Jay. I never made a statement [Saturday] that 'you can be traded at any time.' They asked a question and I told them it was the time of year when people inquire about your team. Your job, as a head coach and general manager, is to listen and not bypass any opportunity to help your team improve. I think most people [in the NFL] feel the same way. You make smart, educated decisions that are best for your football team."

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3983805

Here is another from Peter King, who concidentally the Denver media was pissed at (along with McDaniels) in the early part of the season, because they said McDaniels was far more likely to sit down with national media like King than the local media.

McDaniels is just as adamant that he never even considered trading Cutler until Detroit and Tampa Bay approached him at the NFL combine in late February and asked about acquiring the quarterback. Then on Feb. 26, McDaniels says, one of the teams proposed a three-way trade in which the Broncos would give up Cutler for high draft choices they would then trade for Cassel. The next day McDaniels began exploring a trade for Cassel, but "we were late to the dance," he said; New England already had a deal with Kansas City. As evidence that the Broncos were not close to making the trade, McDaniels says he didn't discuss such a deal with owner Pat Bowlen, as he would have been obligated to do, and Bowlen concurs.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vau...3631/index.htm