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Thread: First-team offense, defense pass first test

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    Default First-team offense, defense pass first test

    Broncos Mailbag: First-team offense, defense pass first test
    And which rookies will be future stalwarts in Denver?

    By Mike Klis
    The Denver Post
    POSTED: 08/17/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT


    Denver Post NFL reporter Mike Klis posts his Broncos Mailbag every Tuesday during the NFL season. He'll open up the weekly Mailbag starting this week, during Broncos training camp.

    Pose a Broncos- or NFL-related question for the Broncos Mailbag.

    The Broncos haven't done anything to become a better team. They still have problems scoring. The defense still gives up big plays. The special teams are not special at all. So fans are going to be disappointed again this year. When are the Broncos going to be contenders?
    --John, Pittsburgh


    John, I'm guessing living in a city full of snobbish Super Bowl champion fans has warped your perspective. The Broncos' first-team offense -- without linemen Ryan Clady and Chris Kuper, running back Knowshon Moreno and wide receiver Demaryius Thomas -- scored two touchdowns Sunday in Cincinnati on the three possessions it played. That's a 56-point pace.

    Denver's first-team defense -- without Brian Dawkins, Elvis Dumervil and D.J. Williams -- held the Bengals' first-string offense to zero points on two possessions. Granted, the Bengals missed a 44-yard field goal and went for it on fourth down when they could have tried a 49-yard field goal.

    But I'm afraid until Dumervil -- last year's NFL leader in sacks with 17 -- returns from pectoral surgery, the Broncos may have to settle for a bend-but-don't-break defense. Where a strong pass rush really comes into play is on third down. On each of the Bengals' first two possessions, a hardly harried Carson Palmer completed third-down passes for first downs.

    Look at the play-by-play script of any long drive and there's always a third-down conversion or two. A strong pass rush is vital to disrupting a third-down pass -- even if it means causing the


    Bengals running back James Johnson is upended near the goal line by the Broncos' Joe Mays (96) and Chris Baker (75). But the Bengals eluded several Denver tackles in the game Sunday. (AP)
    quarterback to dump off for a completion short of the first down -- and getting the defense off the field


    Denver's defense will not be any better unless the players learn to tackle. If I were in charge of the Broncos, linebacker Joe Mays and cornerback Alphonso Smith would not have a job. Isn't tackling what they were hired to do? Do NFL teams not teach tackling to their players?
    --Gordon Thorne, Henderson, Nev.


    This is one tough group of Mailbaggers. Despite leaving at least six starters at home, the Broncos' first-teamers whip the Bengals' first-teamers 14-0 and already the 2010 season is hopeless. With apologies to the 30 players competing for the final two or three slots on Denver's 53-man roster, preseason games are for little more than coaches once the starters leave the field.

    In 2008, the Lions were 4-0 in the preseason and went 0-16 in the regular season. The Indianapolis Colts since 2005 have gone -- get this -- 4-19 in the preseason. So a 1-3 record is considered a good preseason for the Colts. During that span, here are the Colts' regular-season records in order: 14-2, 12-4, 13-3, 12-4, 14-2. That's an average record of 13-3.

    Preseason games expose a team's roster depth. And no doubt, the Broncos' roster is unusually thin, which is to be expected because of their numerous injuries. But I will agree that Smith's performance is a concern. Mays took a helmet right where it hurts. But Smith has not developed as hoped after the Broncos traded a future first-round draft pick to draft him out of Wake Forest in the second round last year.
    Smith was known as a ballhawk, not a tackler, but he has put himself on the roster bubble.

    What was Tim Tebow's biggest lesson learned in his NFL debut Sunday against the Bengals? I think it might be that hit on the last play of the game. Ouch.
    --Steve J., Denver


    While no one suggests Tebow should have been sliding at the 1-yard line to avoid the hit, he is going to get hurt if he continues to bring such a physical style to the quarterback position. The McDaniels brothers, though, have to be careful -- that reckless abandon is what makes Tim Tebow... Tim Tebow. Sometimes when you try to correct a weakness, you can at the same time diminish a strength.
    I would advise Tebow that when running in the open field, he slide rather than take on a tackler. That goes against his mentality, but he won't be any less of a man for doing so.

    As for the hits he takes in the pocket, those will become more infrequent the more he plays and instinctively feels the NFL pass rush. One Mississippi, two Mississippi in college, even in the SEC, isn't quite as quick as the pass-rush count in the NFL.

    But when pay dirt is in sight? That's when you want Tebow's toughness. Did John Elway slide during Super Bowl XXXII? No, he added "The Helicopter" to his legacy. If Tebow gets hurt scoring a touchdown, well, at least he scored a touchdown. That's the mentality all players bring to this violent sport.

    It kills me to say it, but with the team's rash of injuries, this is the year I am least excited about the Broncos, my lifelong love. What's a Broncos nut to do on the verge of what might be a long season?
    --Rob Stark, San Jose, Costa Rica


    Injuries lowered the Broncos' over/under line in Las Vegas from 7 1/2 wins to seven. So you're hardly alone, Rob. But the Broncos are expecting every injured player to be healthy enough to play in the regular-season opener Sept. 12 at Jacksonville -- with the exception of Elvis Dumervil and LenDale White (who will be serving an NFL-ordered suspension).

    The first quarter against the Bengals also has me believing the Denver offense could be better than I thought. With so much youth on the offensive line and injuries everywhere but quarterback, I wasn't seeing many touchdowns in the Broncos' immediate future. But if Kyle Orton is going to throw it downfield as he did against the Bengals, and Knowshon Moreno fully recovers from his hamstring injury, there may be more big plays from the Broncos' offense this year.

    Who's been the Broncos' best surprise during training camp?
    --Ted, Denver


    For the second consecutive year, Ryan McBean is one. He became a surprise starter last year and he's a surprise starter again this year. I figured McBean would be demoted to backup this year after the Broncos paid decent money to three defensive linemen -- Justin Bannan, Jamal Williams and Jarvis Green. But McBean has so far edged out Green on the starting base defense at right end. Green will replace McBean in nickel situations.

    The two rookie offensive linemen, Zane Beadles and J.D. Walton, also have been pleasant surprises. It's one thing to draft them in the second and third rounds, respectively. It's another to throw rookie blockers in with the No. 1 offense -- and stay there. They blocked well for Kyle Orton in the preseason opener at Cincinnati. Walton went head-to-head with the likes of Tank Johnson and more than held his own.

    Wide receiver Matthew Willis and rookie cornerback Perrish Cox also were impressive through the offseason and first two weeks of training camp. But both seemed to hit the wall last week, when they started making the occasional mistake.

    Any chance the Broncos would return to Greeley for training camp? Whose decision is that?
    --Scott, Greeley


    Don't be offended, Scott, if I say I hope not. Josh McDaniels strikes me as an NFL coach who, given his druthers, would like to pack up and move training camp to a college campus, where for three weeks it would be all football all the time. But he wasn't here when the decision to move training camp from the University of Northern Colorado in Greeley to Broncos headquarters at Dove Valley was made by team owner Pat Bowlen in 2003.

    Probably the greatest advantage to working year-round at Dove Valley is the coaches and players get more time with their families. And because they do, training camp isn't the dreadful experience it used to be. No offense to the fine people of Greeley.

    Why is it that fans are constantly looking for the next coach? We speak of stability at the most important position on the field, quarterback, but never at head coach. Do you think it would be smart for the Broncos to sign Josh McDaniels to a contract extension now and show that stability to the players?
    --Mike, Portland, Ore.


    This is a position I don't ordinarily receive regarding McDaniels. While I still believe McDaniels has a chance to become a special head coach, more proof is needed. Even McDaniels would agree one 8-8 season is not worthy of reward.

    Besides, he still has three years left on his contract. That's plenty of stability.

    If the NFL goes to an 18-game regular season for each team, will the roster limit of 53 players be expanded?
    --Tim Turner, Greer, S.C.


    That's a must, Tim. I think the owners will have to compromise and expand the training camp rosters from 80 players to at least 85, the regular-season active roster from 53 players to at least 58 and the game-day roster from 45 players to at least 48.

    Mike Klis is entering his sixth season of covering the Broncos for The Denver Post. He previously covered the Rockies and Major League Baseball for 15 years. Pose a Broncos- or NFL-related question for the Broncos Mailbag.

    http://www.denverpost.com/broncos200...349?source=rss

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    Interesting. For those who questioned some of the problems the other night we were only overreacting over one preseason game but then this yo-yo is going to say that everything is better when it is only a preseason game. lmao priceless

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    This wasnt a test as much as it was a pop quiz that doesnt count against your grade.

    Does anyone remember a couple of years ago when Denver would get out to 21-3 leads against teams like San Diego and New Orleans only to see them come storming back? Theres more to it than playing good offense and defense for 2 possessions. And even at that, its not as though you cant find flaw with how the first string offense and defense played on Sunday.

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    It jsut baffles me that soo many people think that the broncos are only going to win like6 or 7 games this year.....


    I just can not for the life of me see that. For a handful of people sure. But it seems like most people- average fans and even us hardcores on the boards and such think the same way. Whatever I will stay with my glass 3/4 full but I always like to see others perspectives. This is just one that I have trouble seeing.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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    Quote Originally Posted by underrated29 View Post
    It jsut baffles me that soo many people think that the broncos are only going to win like6 or 7 games this year.....


    I just can not for the life of me see that. For a handful of people sure. But it seems like most people- average fans and even us hardcores on the boards and such think the same way. Whatever I will stay with my glass 3/4 full but I always like to see others perspectives. This is just one that I have trouble seeing.
    Whenever I look at baselining a team's win totals, I take certain factors into account:

    What positions are definitely expected to be worse?
    What positions are definitely expected to be better?
    Based upon the last season, is the schedule easier, tougher or the same?

    For the more 'negative' evaluators looking back to last season last year, there's another factor, and that's 2-14. 'Positive' fans can ignore that or try explaining it away, but those who note it do have a legitimate point.

    QB - better
    RB - unknown
    TE - unknown
    OL - worse, at least to start (Clady injury sets the line back)
    WR - worse

    DT - better
    DE - unknown
    OLB - worse
    ILB - unknown
    CB - unknown
    S - unknown

    Schedule: divisional opponents should be better, NFC West is weaker than the NFC East.

    Given that the Broncos were an 8 win team last season, I can see the 'negatives' arguing for your stated 6-7 wins based upon all the factors. I don't agree with that pessimistic an outlook for this team, but it's not an insane minimum for people starting from the viewpoint of 2-14 rather than 6-6.

    Of course, that's just my take.
    "The work doesn't care who does it."

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    We have gotten up big 2+ scores in the first quarter since forever even back in the TD days and then got conservative in play calling instead of not taking hostages. It has come back to hurt us all the time fortunatly back then they had the players to turn it on down the stretch when they needed.

    Today we do not have that kind of depth to do that.

    IMO it will take another couple of years to stockpile the "few other" spot we are weak at as starters and then fill out the backups.

    Once we have that is place we can deal off some of those fat contracts for draft choices. And still have great starters.

    Takes time to build a REAL dynasty.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tempus Fugit View Post
    Whenever I look at baselining a team's win totals, I take certain factors into account:

    What positions are definitely expected to be worse?
    What positions are definitely expected to be better?
    Based upon the last season, is the schedule easier, tougher or the same?

    For the more 'negative' evaluators looking back to last season last year, there's another factor, and that's 2-14. 'Positive' fans can ignore that or try explaining it away, but those who note it do have a legitimate point.

    QB - better
    RB - unknown
    TE - unknown
    OL - worse, at least to start (Clady injury sets the line back)
    WR - worse

    DT - better
    DE - unknown
    OLB - worse
    ILB - unknown
    CB - unknown
    S - unknown

    Schedule: divisional opponents should be better, NFC West is weaker than the NFC East.

    Given that the Broncos were an 8 win team last season, I can see the 'negatives' arguing for your stated 6-7 wins based upon all the factors. I don't agree with that pessimistic an outlook for this team, but it's not an insane minimum for people starting from the viewpoint of 2-14 rather than 6-6.

    Of course, that's just my take.
    QB - better
    RB - same or better
    TE - same or better
    OL - worse, at least to start (Clady injury sets the line back) I need to say that even without Cladt initally the upgrade @OLG and OC should be noted by midseason
    WR -same production spread around to several WR.

    DT - better
    DE - better bannan is a huge upgrade
    OLB - worse only because of doom but the other kids will have another years exprience.
    ILB - same or better.
    CB -same or better considering the QB will not have all day to pick and choose
    S - same or better with the back up exprience we now have.
    KICKER better


    I wll not project w-l yet but unless the IR roster fills up I see no reason we should not be better than last year.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
    QB - better
    RB - same or better
    TE - same or better
    OL - worse, at least to start (Clady injury sets the line back) I need to say that even without Cladt initally the upgrade @OLG and OC should be noted by midseason
    WR -same production spread around to several WR.

    DT - better
    DE - better bannan is a huge upgrade
    OLB - worse only because of doom but the other kids will have another years exprience.
    ILB - same or better.
    CB -same or better considering the QB will not have all day to pick and choose
    S - same or better with the back up exprience we now have.
    KICKER better


    I wll not project w-l yet but unless the IR roster fills up I see no reason we should not be better than last year.
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    Holy Testical Tuesday!!



    Did Jr just say something along the lines of a glass half full..??


    Welcome back from the darkside. It feels good to be looking forward and excited to see you team in a new light, doesnt it? This is a major milestone and I think we needs shots all around for this one.
    The Plan at the moment:

    Draft: Trade a 3rd and 6th this year to a team to move up and get a 2nd next year (this will happen).

    Players I want:
    Jake Ferguson (Jake Butt) or Jelani Woods or Jeremy Ruckert or Cade Otten (owen daniels) at TE- All 4th rd or later.
    Troy Anderson LB 3rd/4th rd (yay Timmy!)
    Neil Farrell, JR DL- run stuffer- bye purcell

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