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Thread: Sonics Move to OKC: Your Thoughts?

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    Default Sonics Move to OKC: Your Thoughts?

    The city of Seattle, and the Supersonics Oklahoma City-based ownership group are getting ready to battle in court over their proposed move to OKC.

    I'm biased, what does everyone else think?

    Here's an article regarding the litigation. A poll conducted last month showed that the majority (around 2/3) of Seattle-area residents didn't care if the Sonics moved, but the city and some vociferous fans are fighting the move.

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basket...6_trial03.html

    A Sonics trial may get ugly -- expert says
    NBA should push for fast settlement, veteran lawyer says
    By GREG JOHNS
    P-I REPORTER

    With less than two weeks remaining until the start of the city's trial against the Sonics, an attorney unaffiliated with either party says this could turn into the legal equivalent of a barroom brawl if the case gets to court.

    The looming question now is whether the struggle over the Sonics' lease issue at KeyArena will reach Judge Marsha Pechman's courtroom for the opening gavel on June 16 or if the sides will come to some sort of pretrial agreement.

    Longtime Seattle attorney Randy Aliment said he's surprised the situation has gone this far without resolution and notes that more than 90 percent of cases are resolved out of court.

    From Aliment's perspective, both parties in this particular battle have significant motivation to find a tenable solution, as does the NBA.

    "You'd think the NBA would pull both sides into a room, knock their heads together and say, 'Let's get this resolved,' because it will be a bloodbath in that courtroom," said Aliment, whose Williams, Kastner & Gibbs firm represented Ken Behring when the former Seahawks owner was attempting to move his team to Los Angeles in 1996.

    Aliment remembers armed guards in the lobby of his firm's office during the highly emotional Behring situation, which ultimately was settled out of court when Behring agreed to sell the Seahawks to Paul Allen.

    The Sonics case could get even more heated if it reaches Pechman's U.S. District courtroom, given the lengthy run-up of legal machinations, a number of well-publicized e-mails and other evidence and the fact the NBA has already approved a move of the franchise to Oklahoma City once it receives legal clearance from its KeyArena lease that is scheduled to expire after the 2009-10 season.

    Aliment said both sides have hired the best trial lawyers in Seattle and he expects a no-holds-barred situation should the case proceed as scheduled.

    "You've definitely got a three-ring circus going now," Aliment said. "From a straight legal standpoint, this thing is just about unprecedented. I'm thinking one of the only other comparable situations was when Al Davis and the Oakland Raiders filed suit and things got stupid down there. That one actually went to trial."

    Davis filed an antitrust lawsuit against the NFL in 1982 when the league attempted to block his move to Los Angeles. Aliment said the issues are different in this case and in a suit filed by former Sonics owner Howard Schultz seeking to rescind the sale to Clay Bennett's ownership group, but the bottom line remains.

    "In legal battles, it's all about a dispute," Aliment said. "Whether you're talking about antitrust or breach of contract or whatever, it's a fistfight. So lawyers are reaching into their bag to figure out whatever legal theory will rule the day.

    "Here you've got breach of lease, you've got breach of contract, you've got fraud. But bottom line, what you really have is a fight. Somebody is trying to steal the team, somebody wants to keep the team, and that's all the city knows and all Clay Bennett knows

    "That's why the NBA has to be looking at this thing saying, 'We've got to put a stop to this' or who knows where the fallout will end? Because once that fistfight erupts in court, it's like a bar where eventually it spills out into the street. You'd think somebody would want to stop this before it goes that far."

    Aliment feels NBA commissioner David Stern should be concerned about how Seattle's situation is being viewed by other cities around the league and the precedent that would be set by the upcoming court battle, not to mention the potential ugliness of the Sonics playing two lame-duck seasons at KeyArena after the league has already approved their departure.

    Both the city and the Sonics' owners have risks in proceeding to trial. Even if they win, the Sonics almost surely would face an appeals process that would prevent the team from moving to Oklahoma City by next season, which means at least another year of $30 million in losses while playing at KeyArena.

    Additionally, Schultz's lawsuit looms as another hurdle in Bennett's path.

    The city runs the risk of pushing for a solution without a clear-cut victory, given that the Sonics will be free to leave in two years even if the city wins its case to enforce the lease, unless Schultz's suit also succeeds.

    Additionally, Aliment says that while the city's case appears strong, judges frequently hesitate to keep two warring parties together in a binding lease agreement and often award financial damages instead of insisting on a "specific performance" request such as forcing the Sonics to play their games in a bad situation.

    Is there room to settle?

    "From the city's standpoint, forced occupation here is going to be a difficult proposition because the team would only be here two years, the NBA is going to be upset and the prospects for a team long-term are problematic," Aliment said. "Some type of mediated solution where Bennett can take his toys back to Oklahoma and the city gets a different team, or Bennett gets a new team and we keep our Sonics, would obviously be the best.

    "But it's going to take participation by the NBA and other owners to approve something like that," he said. "That's a tall order, as evidenced by the fact it hasn't been done yet."

    If the sides are negotiating, they're doing so quietly, which would be expected at this juncture. Most cases come down to last-minute settlements and it's possible for an agreement to be made even during or after a trial. The questions are: Who has the most leverage and are both sides willing to give?

    Pechman has a pretrial conference scheduled for Friday, at which she'll hand down rulings on motions by both sides, outline trial requirements and see if there is settlement progress.

    From Aliment's perspective, it's surprising the situation has come this far.

    "It can still happen and I have no firsthand knowledge of any of this," he said. "But one would think the NBA would get these parties together and say, 'Clay Bennett, you have a team. Seattle, you want a team. Let's let the team go to Oklahoma City and you will get your team in (some future) season.' And then have a squaring up of the money."

    Should the battle actually be waged in court, Aliment says it's possible there will be no winners in the big picture, given the black eye the NBA would receive as well as the mixed legal bag that likely will remain even once a decision is rendered.

    "It's like if your kid comes home and says, 'I got in a fight today, but I beat him,' " Aliment said. "And you look at your kid and his face is all bloodied and bruised. I just think someone has to step in and stop this thing and find a solution."

  2. #2

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    I think it sucks when a Pro Team moves, in any sport. I know it's all about the money but what about the fans??

    Sonics have been in Seattle for ever. I'm pretty sure they have a pretty decent fan base.
    This isn't the magnitude of when the Browns moved to Balt but still the same deal. I'm glad the Browns finally got to go home and would hate to see Seattle lose thier NBA franchise.

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    This would definately bring OKC to the big-time, since they have no professional teams that I am aware of...
    "When we lose the right to be different, we lose the privilege to be free"
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    ***EDIT*** Trade ray ray then move his former team 90 miles away and move him back home on top of it - uuugggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

    IDK - I will go see them if they play the celts, pistons or bobcats - i will take my son to go see them if they play the lakers

    Yes - its a showdown between me and my son in the finals for Bball this year - how did i raise a giants fan, and a lakers fan - at least he is somewhat of a yankees fan

    kids
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    Quote Originally Posted by broncogirl7 View Post
    This would definately bring OKC to the big-time, since they have no professional teams that I am aware of...
    Right, no professional teams. . .unless you count OU football.

    I don't like the impression that we are "stealing" a team, but the Sonics have been losing money consistently at Key arena, and Seattle has been adament in saying that they won't spend any tax-payer money to build a new arena or renovate Key and update the lease.

    So, the previous owner (Starbucks CEO) put the team up for sale and the OKC group bought it.

    They even agreed to make a good-faith effort for 12 months to keep the team there and secure a new arena/lease, but Seattle wouldn't budge.

    Seattle fans are arguing that they didn't follow through with the "good-faith" effort, but while Seattle has done nothing but complain, OKC voter approved the extension of an expiring sales-tax to put about $120 million more into the 6-year old Ford center to bring it up to NBA standards, and the State approved the extension of a tax exemption to the team for a few years which is normally used to lure big businesses to the state.

    In other words, all Seattle has done is argue that the Sonics have a lease with them, while OKC has put their money where their mouth is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    Right, no professional teams. . .unless you count OU football.

    I don't like the impression that we are "stealing" a team, but the Sonics have been losing money consistently at Key arena, and Seattle has been adament in saying that they won't spend any tax-payer money to build a new arena or renovate Key and update the lease.

    So, the previous owner (Starbucks CEO) put the team up for sale and the OKC group bought it.

    They even agreed to make a good-faith effort for 12 months to keep the team there and secure a new arena/lease, but Seattle wouldn't budge.

    Seattle fans are arguing that they didn't follow through with the "good-faith" effort, but while Seattle has done nothing but complain, OKC voter approved the extension of an expiring sales-tax to put about $120 million more into the 6-year old Ford center to bring it up to NBA standards, and the State approved the extension of a tax exemption to the team for a few years which is normally used to lure big businesses to the state.

    In other words, all Seattle has done is argue that the Sonics have a lease with them, while OKC has put their money where their mouth is.
    I wish it was KC...I'd love to watch Durant night in and night out. And Jeff Green and Luke Ridnour. Tack on the No. 4 overall pick from this year, and that could be a very good team in the future.

    OKC will get their money's worth if the FO is worth anything. Hell, they've pretty much lucked into a team full of young potential stars.

    Ford has them drafting Bayless. Man, I wish it was in KC...Bayless is going to be awesome.

    Plus, my Nugs would come to town twice a year....
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    I wish it was KC...I'd love to watch Durant night in and night out. And Jeff Green and Luke Ridnour. Tack on the No. 4 overall pick from this year, and that could be a very good team in the future.

    OKC will get their money's worth if the FO is worth anything. Hell, they've pretty much lucked into a team full of young potential stars.

    Ford has them drafting Bayless. Man, I wish it was in KC...Bayless is going to be awesome.

    Plus, my Nugs would come to town twice a year....
    Clay Bennett was part of the ownership group that built the Spurs before their run. I think the FO will do fine. They are building for the future for sure.

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    personally I do not see the fan base in OKC, my daughter goes to school there and While I have not seen all of OKC I do not see them as being able to support the team..

    I know that the hornets practiced and played a few games there last year while they repaired the home court in New Orleans..

    BUt I do not see it maybe I'm wrong, show me the way..

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    Just glad it wasn't the Hornets after Katrina.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
    personally I do not see the fan base in OKC, my daughter goes to school there and While I have not seen all of OKC I do not see them as being able to support the team..

    I know that the hornets practiced and played a few games there last year while they repaired the home court in New Orleans..

    BUt I do not see it maybe I'm wrong, show me the way..
    A few games? The Hornets played two full seasons here, and we had one of the top attendance figures for the whole league despite the fact that the Hornets were never in playoff contention either year, and were going back to New Orleans (read: lame duck).

    Luckily for N.O., they began to produce this year. During the first half of the season the stands in N.O. were virtually empty.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    A few games? The Hornets played two full seasons here, and we had one of the top attendance figures for the whole league despite the fact that the Hornets were never in playoff contention either year, and were going back to New Orleans (read: lame duck).

    Luckily for N.O., they began to produce this year. During the first half of the season the stands in N.O. were virtually empty.
    They actually lowered ticket prices. Gave a ton away as well. We had 500 free tickets on base for every game.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    A few games? The Hornets played two full seasons here, and we had one of the top attendance figures for the whole league despite the fact that the Hornets were never in playoff contention either year, and were going back to New Orleans (read: lame duck).

    Luckily for N.O., they began to produce this year. During the first half of the season the stands in N.O. were virtually empty.
    Thanks I had not heard that just that they had not filled the stands most of the time.. there was something I read in the newspaper also about even though they did have pretty good attendance they had split the games with another city for their home games they had mentioned if the folks their could afford to pay for a a fill season of home games .. after the novelty wore off.


    I'm not Dissing OKC, it is a place I think I could like to live.. Just heard some of the rumors.. And read one really good article in the paper about it.. I did not pay much attention at the time because from the article it sounded like the chances were so remote of them moving it did not matter much..

    If I thought I could get a decent job up there I would almost move in a heart beat..

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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    Right, no professional teams. . .unless you count OU football.

    I don't like the impression that we are "stealing" a team, but the Sonics have been losing money consistently at Key arena, and Seattle has been adament in saying that they won't spend any tax-payer money to build a new arena or renovate Key and update the lease.

    So, the previous owner (Starbucks CEO) put the team up for sale and the OKC group bought it.

    They even agreed to make a good-faith effort for 12 months to keep the team there and secure a new arena/lease, but Seattle wouldn't budge.

    Seattle fans are arguing that they didn't follow through with the "good-faith" effort, but while Seattle has done nothing but complain, OKC voter approved the extension of an expiring sales-tax to put about $120 million more into the 6-year old Ford center to bring it up to NBA standards, and the State approved the extension of a tax exemption to the team for a few years which is normally used to lure big businesses to the state.

    In other words, all Seattle has done is argue that the Sonics have a lease with them, while OKC has put their money where their mouth is.

    This isn't true.

    The city of Seattle upgraded Key Arena back in the day rather than build a new arena because at the time the owners of the Sonics didn't want a building that could get an ice hockey team to Seattle to compete for dollars. So they specifically wanted the arena to be small.

    So the city upgraded the existing facilities and that's it, as asked.

    Then a few years later the Sonics complained about not making as much money as other teams. The city told them to kiss off on building them a 400 million dollar stadium with no funds from the owners.

    Clay came in, paid Starbucks guy a ton of cash with the expressed intent of moving it out of Seattle.

    Seattle offered to renovate the arena again, or put up some of the money for some glitzy new arena. Clay was not interested.

    There's just not a lot of available space in Seattle to build - it's framed in between the sound and some lakes, so space is at a premium. People across the bridge in Bellevue started looking at alternate sites.

    Clay was not interested. 400 million of taxpayer money or nothing. He wanted to get a no vote so he could get the team out of town.

    I don't blame the people of OKC for wanting a team - they've shown they'd be good for one.

    But I lived in Seattle for 8 years, and they built stadiums for the Mariners and the Seahawks. They'd build one for the Sonics, if there were a reasonable proposal.

    There isn't, and there won't be. OKC isn't stealing a team from Seattle, but (with the help of the Starbucks moron) Clay and his buddies like Stern (who inducted him into the state sports HOF btw...) are.

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    This move is awful, and David Stern is a ******* of the highest proportions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
    Thanks I had not heard that just that they had not filled the stands most of the time.. there was something I read in the newspaper also about even though they did have pretty good attendance they had split the games with another city for their home games they had mentioned if the folks their could afford to pay for a a fill season of home games .. after the novelty wore off.


    I'm not Dissing OKC, it is a place I think I could like to live.. Just heard some of the rumors.. And read one really good article in the paper about it.. I did not pay much attention at the time because from the article it sounded like the chances were so remote of them moving it did not matter much..

    If I thought I could get a decent job up there I would almost move in a heart beat..
    The Hornets played all but 6 of their home games last season (2006-07) at the Ford center. The other 6 were in New Orleans.

    For the two years they averaged over 18,000 fans/home game. I couldn't find a ranking for the 06/07 season, but for the 05/06 season they ranked 11th out of the 30 NBA teams for attendence.

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