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Thread: Sonics Move to OKC: Your Thoughts?

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    This isn't true.

    The city of Seattle upgraded Key Arena back in the day rather than build a new arena because at the time the owners of the Sonics didn't want a building that could get an ice hockey team to Seattle to compete for dollars. So they specifically wanted the arena to be small.

    So the city upgraded the existing facilities and that's it, as asked.

    Then a few years later the Sonics complained about not making as much money as other teams. The city told them to kiss off on building them a 400 million dollar stadium with no funds from the owners.

    Clay came in, paid Starbucks guy a ton of cash with the expressed intent of moving it out of Seattle.

    Seattle offered to renovate the arena again, or put up some of the money for some glitzy new arena. Clay was not interested.

    There's just not a lot of available space in Seattle to build - it's framed in between the sound and some lakes, so space is at a premium. People across the bridge in Bellevue started looking at alternate sites.

    Clay was not interested. 400 million of taxpayer money or nothing. He wanted to get a no vote so he could get the team out of town.

    I don't blame the people of OKC for wanting a team - they've shown they'd be good for one.

    But I lived in Seattle for 8 years, and they built stadiums for the Mariners and the Seahawks. They'd build one for the Sonics, if there were a reasonable proposal.

    There isn't, and there won't be. OKC isn't stealing a team from Seattle, but (with the help of the Starbucks moron) Clay and his buddies like Stern (who inducted him into the state sports HOF btw...) are.

    ~G
    The City of Seattle has not proposed to renovate Key arena (at least not officially).

    I can see your point that Clay is asking for a "glitzy" new arena and Seattle won't pay for it, but one of the major problems is the way the lease is structured. That's as big of a problem as the building itself.

    Just renovating Key without adjusting the lease won't help the team be profitable.

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    Seattle renovated the Key Arena 10 years ago at the direction of the Sonics. The town isn't really happy that this 100 million dollar investment is viewed as nothing by the new owner since it didn't happen on his watch. But they DID offer a remodel to Schultz and one to Clay.

    Clay is asking for 500+ million dollars (especially after cost overruns that always happen and that he is not willing to pay for) for his arena in order to keep the Sonics in town. The city of Renton tried to get a deal done, but the state legislature crushed them, partly because the eastern half of the state doesn't understand why they should have to keep paying taxes for facilities they'll never use.

    Clay is claiming he needs to move the town because of losses he is helping to create with his running of the team and his face-plants that caused people to believe he WAS leaving town and therefore try not to get invested in the new youth of the Sonics.

    The Muckleshoot Indian Tribe offered to build everything Clay asked for around the City of Auburn (between Seattle and Tacoma), and his resounding silence to this offer said everything that needed to be said.

    Sports teams increase in value over time, not decrease. Ask Schultz - he cried about losses and sold the team for a HUGE profit, wiping out those losses and more. If Clay holds the team for 10 years, eating $20 million in losses the whole time, and sells at the end for 700 million, then he didn't really LOSE any money, did he?

    Buying a team and demanding a new arena within 12 months or he'll move it to a different city isn't a business decision - it's extortion. Conversely, playoff runs are really conducive to strongarming a couple hundred million out of local government - especially if you're not cheap and will throw in some money.

    Tentative feelers were put out to see how Clay felt about 200ish million from the government - he didn't feel that.

    Bellevue talked about getting a different site - he didn't like that.

    The Key Arena is not the Kingdome, with stuff falling on the field and staircases crumbling. It's not the Vet in Philly. It isn't the best arena in the country, but it's not a hellhole. It's just small and without the luxury boxes that will make Clay even more rich than he already is. If Clay wants it condemned and a sparkling palace of basketball built, he'll have to come up with something better than "because otherwise I'll take this team out of a town I don't care about and put it into one I do care about."

    But that's what he wants to do and that's what he will do.

    ~G
    Last edited by G_Money; 06-04-2008 at 02:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne View Post
    The City of Seattle has not proposed to renovate Key arena (at least not officially).

    I can see your point that Clay is asking for a "glitzy" new arena and Seattle won't pay for it, but one of the major problems is the way the lease is structured. That's as big of a problem as the building itself.

    Just renovating Key without adjusting the lease won't help the team be profitable.
    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2544711

    SEATTLE -- New Seattle SuperSonics owner Clay Bennett toured Safeco Field this week, believing the $517 million baseball stadium should be the model for what an NBA arena in the Puget Sound region can be.


    In its present state, KeyArena, the SuperSonics current home, doesn't fit that definition, Bennett told a Wednesday news conference.

    "As we've said before, we don't believe KeyArena is a satisfactory facility," he said.


    Bennett made his first trip to Seattle since buying the Sonics and WNBA Storm from the Basketball Club of Seattle on July 18 for $350 million. When Bennett bought the team he said that whether the Sonics remain in Seattle would depend on whether the team can agree with the city to renovate KeyArena, or replace it with another arena in the region.

    Bennett, chairman of the Oklahoma City-based Professional Basketball Club LLC, said his group is not ruling out a possible remodel of KeyArena, but made clear he'd rather put together a "world-class" sports and entertainment complex on a yet to be determined site.

    "That's the idea we have in mind, the development of the finest building in the world. Where that ends up, I don't know," Bennett said. "We want to develop that profile ... and everything in our minds today is on the table."

    While in Seattle, Bennett met with local and civic leaders, including Mayor Greg Nickels. He also met with Gov. Chris Gregoire on Wednesday afternoon, before returning to Oklahoma City.

    "He envisions a world-class, multipurpose facility which I believe is good for our communities and our state," Gregoire said in a statement. "Mr. Bennett assured me that he and his partners will present a business plan to the public and decision-makers so that we can work together to keep the teams in our state."

    Nickels expressed the city's desire to keep the Sonics at KeyArena and said previous offers for a remodel are still available.

    "The deal offered to the previous ownership group is still on the table," Nickels said.


    KeyArena was remodeled in 1994-95 and the Sonics have a lease until 2010 with the city. The team and NBA commissioner David Stern both have said that lease is the league's most unfavorable to a team and must be changed -- or better yet, a new place must be built with a new lease -- for the teams to prosper in the region.
    Also, I don't really see how lease structure is an issue when the lease is almost up. Re-negotiation of the terms of the lease would almost have to come into play before any new lease would be signed, wouldn't they?

    ~G
    Last edited by G_Money; 06-04-2008 at 03:02 PM.
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    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/basket...9_trial04.html

    Sonics tried to limit interest in team in Seattle, city says

    By GREG JOHNS
    P-I REPORTER

    By limiting exposure of its players and denying media access through radio interviews, the Sonics have intentionally tried to minimize public interest in their team in Seattle over the past year, according to a motion filed Tuesday seeking to allow testimony of KJR-AM radio personality Mitch Levy.

    In the city of Seattle's response to the Sonics' motion to exclude Levy and The Stranger writer Sherman Alexie from the witness list for the upcoming trial to determine the franchise's fate at KeyArena, attorney Michelle Jensen outlined numerous reasons the two media members should be allowed to appear.

    Levy would be asked by the city's lawyers to explain how Clay Bennett's Professional Basketball Club has undercut its own marketing efforts in Seattle by severely limiting player and coaches interviews on KJR-AM sports radio, thereby "adding to its self-inflicted financial wounds."

    Alexie, an award-winning writer as well as a 10-year Sonics season-ticket holder, would be asked to testify to the "intangible benefits" the team provides Seattle, in contrast to the "near-zero" cultural value once professed by City Councilman Nick Licata.

    U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman will rule on that motion and others in a pretrial conference Friday. The six-day trial is scheduled to open June 16.

    The two sides have battled over numerous issues for months, but the matter of Levy and Alexie testifying is one of the more unusual twists.

    The Sonics' attorneys suggested last week the two would only add to a growing "media circus" surrounding the case while offering no valuable insight to what stands as a landlord-tenant dispute over how to fulfill the final two years of the KeyArena lease.

    One of the city's arguments apparently will be that Bennett's ownership group helped create its own financial hardship in Seattle by choosing not to avail itself of the free marketing possibilities provided by an all-sports media outlet like KJR.

    As an example, Tuesday's filing talks about how 19-year-old Sonics rookie Kevin Durant was described by many, including Sonics CEO Danny Barth in a deposition with city lawyers, as a "potentially transcendent player and potential superstar."

    The motion says such terms are normally reserved for players like Magic Johnson, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird, Kobe Bryant and LeBron James. Yet the Sonics made "only minimal efforts" to market Durant in Seattle, allowing him to appear only once on KJR and "failing to attempt to create a bond between Mr. Durant and the Seattle community."

    Jensen's motion indicates Levy could be asked to compare that marketing with how the Mariners promoted Ken Griffey Jr. when he was an 18-year-old rookie in Seattle in a similar situation, as well as showing how the NBA franchise eventually curtailed all live interviews with players and coaches on KJR during the recently completed season.

    "Mr. Levy's testimony will demonstrate PBC's apparently intentional efforts to minimize public interest in the Sonics," the motion states. "This is a particularly troubling issue, as there appears to be no other plausible explanation for PBC's deliberate effort to avoid marketing the team other than for purposes of this litigation."

    The city's lawyers also said Levy, a former sideline reporter at Sonics games, could be used to authenticate one of their exhibits, a televised interview with NBA commissioner David Stern when he spoke glowingly to Levy about the attributes of a remodeled KeyArena when it opened in 1995.

    As for Alexie, Jensen argues that the author's testimony will speak to the issue of what the franchise means to the community and why strictly monetary damages would not be a sufficient remedy for the Sonics' departure.

    While the Sonics' motion to exclude Alexie referred to him as a "writer known for his profanity-laced columns about the Sonics" in The Stranger, Jensen notes that he is a nationally acclaimed author of books and poetry who has spoken to numerous audiences on the importance of racial and ethnic heritage and diversity.

    A member of the Coeur d'Alene Indian Tribe, Alexie is "eminently qualified to provide relevant testimony about the intangible benefits the Sonics bring to Seattle," Jensen says.

    "PBC cannot argue the team offers no cultural value and then exclude testimony offered to contradict that argument," Jensen wrote. "Given the brief time allotted for a trial (due to PBC's expedited needs), Mr. Alexie is an ideal spokesman for the season ticket holders who would otherwise not have a voice in a case directly impacting their interests."

    The Sonics filed several motions Tuesday, too, asking Pechman to allow a survey showing the Sonics rank third in popularity behind the Seahawks and Mariners among Seattle sports fans; as well as evidence regarding the PBC's efforts to find a new arena in the region.

    Both matters go to the "heart of why this matter is in litigation," according to the team's attorneys, noting that the city has conceded KeyArena is inadequate for an NBA team and the PBC was unable to obtain a successor venue in a city that previously had funded new facilities for pro baseball and football.

    "Now, on the eve of trial, and after forcing taxpayers, the PBC and several third parties to collectively spend several hundred thousand dollars conducting discovery on these issues, the City claims that whether the PBC acted in good faith is not relevant," the Sonics motion states.

    Additionally, the team is asking Pechman to include evidence showing the "dysfunction" between the city and owners that would make any specific-performance ruling difficult to carry out.

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    G, as always you make a great argument.

    Is Clay Bennett really interested in keeping the Sonics in Seattle? Maybe not, but he did not file to move the team until 12 months had passed, and did try to negotiate a deal for a new arena. I think the court will find (if it gets to that point) that Clay did try to keep the team there in good faith for 12 months.

    Seattle and the State of Washington don't want to pay for a new arena. That's OK, but the consequence of that decision is that the current ownership doesn't want to stay in Key arena remodeled or not. It's simple cause and effect.

    Schultz made money on the sale of the team, but as you note the teams operations are not profitable or even break-even on the operations side. Schultz wanted to sell for a reason, and that reason is that the team wasn't making money.

    Schultz had asked for a new arena himself for years and was rebuffed as well.

    You make a great analysis of why the Seattle voters don't want to fund a new arena, and I totally understand their position.

    What I don't understand is then fighting to keep them there if you don't want to do what the team needs in order to be profitable.

    Clay has proposed a buy-out of the lease that would include paying off the remaining debt on Key arena so that the tax-payers don't owe money on a vacant building.

    Instead of accepting this, the City is suing to keep them there for two-years as a lame-duck team. After which there would still be debt left on the building.

    If the court decides that the sonics have to play out the rest of the lease rather than buying it out, then that's what Clay will have to do, but the bottom line is that it's his team now, and Oklahoma City is willing to do what it takes to get an NBA team and Seattle isn't.

    To a large degree I think the reason for this is that the Sonics aren't the only game in town. Seattle residents are tired of paying for new buildings after doing so for the Seahawks and Mariners. It's totally understandable.

    But Seattle is trying to hold the Sonics captive prisoner to a money-losing lease as much as the Sonics are trying to extort Seattle.

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    Clay didn't negotiate. "Pay for my $500 million dollar stadium or I'm leaving" is not a negotiation.

    "We're trying to get out of here ASAP and exerting all our energy toward it" is not good-faith. Every email that comes out from the Bennett camp just shows that they had no desire to make it work in Seattle. They overpaid for the team because they knew they weren't gonna fork over a red cent for a stadium in Seattle. They were gonna get a much better deal back home.

    Part of Clay's argument is that there is not enough restaurant space and luxury boxes for him to rake in the cash.

    Which is fine, I can understand him wanting to make a profit.

    I don't understand him needing to make it at the expense of the city. He seems to think he paid enough for the team, so why should he have to pay for the arena, and the land, and the cost overruns, and...

    If he didn't like the profit structure of the team then he shouldn't have bought it.

    If I buy a $30,000.00 Porsche with a bad engine, that's sort of my fault. Maybe I should have bought a $15,000.00 Saturn if I didn't want to have to pay for the Porsche engine repairs as well.

    The NBA should be trying to keep them in Seattle. They have no interest in doing so - they LIKE that teams can extort fanbases for cash rather than following a more sound business model that doesn't require them to lose money on the team and make it back in tax rebates, sweetheart leases, concessions et al.

    If "doing what it takes to get an NBA team" involves letting them bend you over for half a billion dollars every 10-15 years, then I guess I should look forward to OKC getting the team moved on them when some other city cracks open the wallet and the new blush of having a pro team wears off.

    Ask Charlotte when the Hornets left due in large part to inept ownership. Ask Memphis when the Grizz leave...possibly for Seattle. The difference is, Seattle actually has a history with the Sonics.

    The citizens of Seattle would like to keep Their Team in town without having to fork over half a billion dollars. That's not the standard cost of doing business in the NBA - Stan Kroenke built the Pepsi Center for his Nuggs and Avs for $180 million 10 years ago, didn't he? With his own money? The Oakland As are building a new stadium in Fremont, for the most part without public funds. The only time Clay talks about paying for anything involves getting the team to leave, not getting it to stay.

    There was common ground to be found, if the ownership group had wanted to find it. Once they drew their line in the sand, the Seattle politicians drew theirs, and now they're all in a pissing contest.

    Eventually, Bennett will get to go and be celebrated as a hero in his hometown when he brings them a professional franchise.

    That doesn't make it right.

    ~G
    Last edited by G_Money; 06-04-2008 at 04:22 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    Clay didn't negotiate. "Pay for my $500 million dollar stadium or I'm leaving" is not a negotiation.

    "We're trying to get out of here ASAP and exerting all our energy toward it" is not good-faith. Every email that comes out from the Bennett camp just shows that they had no desire to make it work in Seattle. They overpaid for the team because they knew they weren't gonna fork over a red cent for a stadium in Seattle. They were gonna get a much better deal back home.

    Part of Clay's argument is that there is not enough restaurant space and luxury boxes for him to rake in the cash.

    Which is fine, I can understand him wanting to make a profit.

    I don't understand him needing to make it at the expense of the city. He seems to think he paid enough for the team, so why should he have to pay for the arena, and the land, and the cost overruns, and...

    If he didn't like the profit structure of the team then he shouldn't have bought it.

    If I buy a $30,000.00 Porsche with a bad engine, that's sort of my fault. Maybe I should have bought a $15,000.00 Saturn if I didn't want to have to pay for the Porsche engine repairs as well.

    The NBA should be trying to keep them in Seattle. They have no interest in doing so - they LIKE that teams can extort fanbases for cash rather than following a more sound business model that doesn't require them to lose money on the team and make it back in tax rebates, sweetheart leases, concessions et al.

    If "doing what it takes to get an NBA team" involves letting them bend you over for half a billion dollars every 10-15 years, then I guess I should look forward to OKC getting the team moved on them when some other city cracks open the wallet and the new blush of having a pro team wears off.

    Ask Charlotte when the Hornets left due in large part to inept ownership. Ask Memphis when the Grizz leave...possibly for Seattle. The difference is, Seattle actually has a history with the Sonics.

    The citizens of Seattle would like to keep Their Team in town without having to fork over half a billion dollars. That's not the standard cost of doing business in the NBA - Stan Kroenke built the Pepsi Center for his Nuggs and Avs for $180 million 10 years ago, didn't he? With his own money? The Oakland As are building a new stadium in Fremont, for the most part without public funds. The only time Clay talks about paying for anything involves getting the team to leave, not getting it to stay.

    There was common ground to be found, if the ownership group had wanted to find it. Once they drew their line in the sand, the Seattle politicians drew theirs, and now they're all in a pissing contest.

    Eventually, Bennett will get to go and be celebrated as a hero in his hometown when he brings them a professional franchise.

    That doesn't make it right.

    ~G
    Schultz who is one of Seattle's biggest supporters and benefactors couldn't make the Sonics work in Seattle and so he sold the team.

    Bennett and the OKC ownership group bought the team. It's pretty obvious that they hoped to move it to OKC, but they did attempt to work out a deal for a new arena and waited 12 months before doing anything.

    You don't think they tried hard enough. They think they did more than enough.

    Frankly, I think that if a deal could be reached, it would have been reached long ago with Schultz. Seattle's not interested enough to do so.

    I think that they took Schultz for granted, knowing that he would never move the team being a Seattle native, but when he couldn't get what he needed he did the next-best thing and sold the team.

    You make a good point that in 10-15 years that OKC will probably be looking at the same issue cropping up again, but OKC is better equipped to deal with it since we're not getting worked over by 3 major-league teams, we'll just have one.

    For a variety of reasons Seattle has determined that the Sonics are not worth building a new arena for. That is well within their rights, but the Sonics have the right to determine where they play too. At least within the parameters of their Frachise with the NBA, whose oweners voted something like 28-2 to approve the move.

    Quote Originally Posted by G_Money View Post
    Eventually, Bennett will get to go and be celebrated as a hero in his hometown when he brings them a professional franchise.

    That doesn't make it right.
    It doesn't make it wrong either. A corporation has a right to determine where they will do business.

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    On the point that we're sort of going around, which is, "What do you think of the lawsuits?" I think they're petty, but gets votes and public support, and that's what politicians and businessmen care about.

    Most of the Sonics fans I know don't want to spend a dime on a Sonics team being taken from them, but would pay a lot of money if they could cost Bennett some money too. If you took a poll of Sonics fans that said, "Would you rather have an empty Key Arena paid off by Bennett, or force him to cough up $30 million a year while sitting on his hands for 2 years until he can leave?" You'd have the Sonics fans say they want him to sit here and suffer.

    Even if the lease being paid off means more money to the city, they don't care.

    They were put in a tough position. They were given a local owner of the Sonics who apparently didn't buy the team because he cared about it and looked at it as an investment for the future, but who instead wanted immediate profits now. When he didn't get them, he sold and got the thing he cared about: Money.

    The guy he sold it to couldn't care less about Seattle, and wants to move the team to OKC, a city primed for an NBA franchise after the Katrina disaster dropped one in their laps for a little while.

    The new guy claimed to be willing to negotiate terms on Key Arena, but that was a lie. He then showed his plan for a half-billion dollar stadium funded by the taxpayers. And nobody could really know for sure if he was stupid (the Mariners had city help for their stadium, but also funded all the cost over-runs, contributed up-front money, had a lease that required more open-books accounting than almost any pro team has, etc...) or just tryingto make the price too high for the state to keep the team.

    Knowing that other owners would not require them to foot such a huge part of the bill in order to line the pockets of a new owner with no community ties, they balked. They assumed he was trying to get the team moved by showing, "See? I told you they wouldn't pay..." and it was true. They wouldn't. Not for him. Not when it felt so much like extortion, and that if they agreed to pay it, what other expenses would he come up with that they couldn't bear to pay?

    And then all the politicians took a TON of heat for screwing up the lease and some other issues and Schultz took a TON of heat for being a local owner who bailed on his town like a crybaby - and isn't it fascinating now how those same people are in court trying to rehab their image with the community with unlikely-to-succeed lawsuits?

    But the people who get stiffed are not the Pols, who get to keep their offices, nor Schultz, who made a fortune - again - on the sale, nor Bennett, who gets all the tax breaks and stadium deals he wants in OKC as well as lauded as the conquering hero.

    The losers are Sonics fans. Nobody else loses anything, lawsuits or no lawsuits.

    Not unless someone in the courthouse loses their damn minds and rules in Schultz's favor on getting the Sonics back, anyway.

    ~G
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    Quote Originally Posted by turftoad View Post
    I think it sucks when a Pro Team moves, in any sport. I know it's all about the money but what about the fans??

    Sonics have been in Seattle for ever. I'm pretty sure they have a pretty decent fan base.
    This isn't the magnitude of when the Browns moved to Balt but still the same deal. I'm glad the Browns finally got to go home and would hate to see Seattle lose thier NBA franchise.

    Totally agree with you. Yeah, and for all the loyal fans that have supported them all these years.......that would suck if the move goes through.
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    And here's where Bennett simultaneously claims that even though he knew what it would take to get a new stadium built in Seattle he was not willing to do it - but that the city of Seattle is still at fault for not letting him go to OKC like he wants.

    http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=3450827

    He suggested he misunderstood the region's political climate, but he also testified he simply wasn't willing to commit to the things that his local advisers told him would be necessary to win government support for a new arena and keep the Sonics in town: make an out-of-pocket contribution toward the construction, and agree to cover cost overruns.

    He said that if U.S. District Judge Marsha Pechman forces the Sonics to honor the final two years of the KeyArena lease, it would cost the team $60 million and make it tough to attract good players and coaches. The most talented players in the league probably wouldn't be interested in moving to Seattle for two years, he said.

    He also extolled the virtues of Oklahoma City's Ford Center, where, he said, the team could make $17 million over the next two years, and the enthusiastic support for the NBA there. He acknowledged he's "not a real popular guy" in Seattle.

    Bennett is trying to move the Sonics -- Seattle's oldest professional sports franchise -- to his hometown of Oklahoma City, two years before the KeyArena lease expires.

    In the nonjury trial, the city is asking Pechman to force the Sonics to honor their lease, which includes a clause that either side may "specifically enforce" the terms. Seattle lawyers say Bennett's a sophisticated businessman who knew what he was getting into when he bought the team, can absorb the losses without difficulty, and should not now be allowed to plead hardship in breaking the lease.

    Bennett testified Tuesday that he was a "man possessed" to keep the team in Seattle -- despite e-mails that show he and co-owners discussed relocating soon after buying the team. He cited his efforts to have a new arena built in the Seattle suburbs.

    The city argues that Bennett's demand for a new $500 million arena -- presented late in the 2007 legislative session -- was so unreasonable as to have been designed to fail. The team offered $100 million in future revenue, such as ticket surcharges and parking fees, but would not commit to an upfront contribution or agree to cover cost overruns.

    In e-mails to his lobbyists, advisers and others, Bennett said any team contribution would be "nominal" or "negligible," and suggested the amount could be offset by a credit for the team's ongoing financial losses.
    "Build me a stadium with half-a-billion dollars of taxpayer money, plus cover all the cost overruns, and mayble I'll kick in a hundred million or so at some future date off of EXTRA parking costs and EXTRA fees above and beyond the ticket prices so it's not really any skin off of my nose."

    I can't imagine why that approach did not succeed.

    Then whine about the 60 million you'll lose staying in the old building, when you could have been promoting the new building and new Sonics that you were helping to fund and have lost less than that 60 million because fans would come out to see Durant and have put their money behind you because you actually WERE trying to keep the Sonics in Seattle.

    When you buy a team with the intention of ripping them out of their city and transplanting them, it's bad form to then gripe about the expense of doing so legally. Seattle doesn't care how great a town for basketball OKC is. Seattle knows it is a fine basketball city itself, that has had a succession of stupid owners driving down business and then complaining that business is bad.

    I hate carpetbaggers.

    ~G
    "Dream as if you will live forever. Live as if you'll die today."
    -- James Dean


    My novels Mason's Order and its sequel Mason's Pledge are now available at Amazon in both paperback and kindle versions.

  12. #26
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    Im glad to see someone finally do this. Go Seattle!

  13. #27
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    I do not believe OKC deserves a team. The FAA has me stuck there until I get to go back to Denver in September and OKC is easily one of the worst cities I've ever been to. Here's why:

    *It seems like the city has had no growth in 20 years.
    *Everything is old.
    *The nicer parts of town here would be considered average in other cities.
    *The infrastructure is horrible. Aging and poorly designed.
    *Public Transportation is non-existent.
    *The roads are far and away the worst in the entire US.
    *It seems like no one takes care of anything here, homes, cars, etc.
    *The weather is horrible pretty much year round with tornadoes, heat/humidity, ice storms, etc.
    *The nicest part of OKC is Bricktown, which all the locals rave about. Sad part is, it's nice but about 1/10th the size of Lodo or a similar place in another city.

    Most of all, I do not believe there are enough people in this city to support a team for the long haul. OKC should be spending their money on things that matter, such as fixing roads and making the town a nicer place to live.

    On the other hand, a basketball game would be nice considering there is absolutely nothing to do in OKC. The Ford Center is a nice arena as well.

  14. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChampWJ View Post
    I do not believe OKC deserves a team. The FAA has me stuck there until I get to go back to Denver in September and OKC is easily one of the worst cities I've ever been to. Here's why:

    *It seems like the city has had no growth in 20 years.
    *Everything is old.
    *The nicer parts of town here would be considered average in other cities.
    *The infrastructure is horrible. Aging and poorly designed.
    *Public Transportation is non-existent.
    *The roads are far and away the worst in the entire US.
    *It seems like no one takes care of anything here, homes, cars, etc.
    *The weather is horrible pretty much year round with tornadoes, heat/humidity, ice storms, etc.
    *The nicest part of OKC is Bricktown, which all the locals rave about. Sad part is, it's nice but about 1/10th the size of Lodo or a similar place in another city.

    Most of all, I do not believe there are enough people in this city to support a team for the long haul. OKC should be spending their money on things that matter, such as fixing roads and making the town a nicer place to live.

    On the other hand, a basketball game would be nice considering there is absolutely nothing to do in OKC. The Ford Center is a nice arena as well.
    Damn, don't hold back dude.

    OKC has had some huge growth over the past 10 years or so. The problem is after the oil bust in the mid-eighties all the money here dried up as the economy was geared for the oil business.

    However, the past 10 years some great things have been happening. Bricktown is one, and you mention its "small", but it currently occupies about a half of the space set aside for development.

    Last year we approved a sales-tax devoted to the roads and public transportation, so that is on the way. In fact, the worst part of the roads are in progress of being replaced. They are currently starting to re-route I-40's route through downtown, and once that's done there will be another round of development along the river to tie in to Bricktown.

    The OKC metro area has a population well over 1 million people, and when the Hornets were here as a lame-duck team on an emergency basis for two years they ranked near the top of the league in attendance.

    I'm sorry you don't like OKC, and it's not Denver or Seattle yet, but we're on our way, and it's progressive thinking like going out and getting an NBA team that is causing our city to grow, and enjoy a strong economy with virtually full employment, and a growing housing sector while the rest of the country is facing recession.

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  16. #29
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    BTW, if you're here maybe we should get a beer sometime Champ.

  17. #30
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    I'm an ass since I was hoping they would move to Vegas.
    I got mind control while I'm here
    You goin' hate me when I'm gone
    Ain't no blood clot and no fear
    I got hope inside of my bones

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