Thread: Our new HEAVY oline.

He's also behind Chris Kuper at RT. He's behind a first-round draft pick and two players who have starting experience, that's expected. I'm assuming Shanahan's expirement with Kuper at RT will end when he realizes that Hamilton probably isn't going to make it through camp, and putting Kuper at guard and a tackle in Harris at the tackle position makes the most sense for the longevity of the line.

Originally Posted by chanesaw

I have never understood how a guy that weighs 300 lb is so much bigger than a guy weighing 285. They are both still huge.

if the 15 pounds is muscle and it does not slow one down, then you take the guy that is 15 pounds stronger in a heart beat..

The problem we have had over the years is we never tried to draft bigger guys (except for foster) because we were always going for LB's CB's and WR's on day one.. The one time we did he was and still is a loser..

mikey has figured out that one must spend day one draft choices in picking up top talent.. not reaching for a 3-5 rounder on day one..

Once you do this and they stick then you do not have to redraft them the ear after you have had to cut/trade them.

Perhaps the corner has been turned on getting decent talent from top to bottom of the draft..

Lets hope that the extra 10-12 pounds per man will make the difference deep in the red zone and on 3rd and 4th and short..

We will still be 5-8 pounds per guy lighter than those top five rushing and passing teams. Lets hope our smart factor can make the difference

Someone at one time started a rumor that all big guys can't play in DEN because they do not have the smarts or speed to do so.. They also said that bigger is not better..

I think we all know that bigger if they are skilled, fast and smart is better than small, smart and fast..

I also concur with Dream that this should be our OLINE this year..

Clady, LT -- Kuper, LG -- Licthensteiger, C -- Holland, RG -- Harris, RT

Lets bite the bullet IF they are all healed and available to play and get the future going this year as I think we all know that this team is to young and inconsistent to get to the playoffs and even if we were to luck out and slither into a slot we'd get our ass kicked by the big boys..AGAIN

Originally Posted by Dream

He's also behind Chris Kuper at RT. He's behind a first-round draft pick and two players who have starting experience, that's expected. I'm assuming Shanahan's expirement with Kuper at RT will end when he realizes that Hamilton probably isn't going to make it through camp, and putting Kuper at guard and a tackle in Harris at the tackle position makes the most sense for the longevity of the line.

Well, we all know that draft status means Nothing to Shanny. And harris has knowledge/understanding of the playbook/ZBS, whereas Clady has zilch. Immediately declaring Clady the starter on the left side says mountains about what they think of harris....where only a few months ago, it was purported the coaches were all "high on him".

lol purported!!!!!


(i know it's a word, look at your avatar)

Originally Posted by rcsodak

Well, we all know that draft status means Nothing to Shanny. And harris has knowledge/understanding of the playbook/ZBS, whereas Clady has zilch. Immediately declaring Clady the starter on the left side says mountains about what they think of harris....where only a few months ago, it was purported the coaches were all "high on him".

Of course draft status matters. They're going to be giving Clady a 6 year deal probably upwards of around 40 million dollars in total earnings. There's no way they sit him for Ryan Harris, who makes around 750k a year. Draft position absolutely matters in certain scenarios, regardless of what Mike Shanahan says. It's the same reason why he took some time to bite the bullet on past high round draft picks just because he thought they'd pan out due to where they drafted him.

You don't draft a guy at #12 and sit him when he's making multi-millions. You get him out on the field. Harris still has a spot on this roster, and as of right now is a valuable back up lineman. These depth charts right now mean absolutely nothing. It's quite possible, and even likely that Harris makes his way into a starting position somewhere on the line, (perhaps LG or RT) by the time the season starts. No hard camp battles have happened, no pre-season games have been played.

I just want to see the best players out on the field.

The X-Factor in all of this is Hamilton. Kuper's getting the nod at RT because the team is assuming he'll come back 100%; which forces Denver to put Kuper, one of their better players out on the field. I think it's a feel good story and likely one that's not going to happen, because of the severity of Hamilton's injury. It's one thing doing some drills and stretching in OTA's, but who knows what another blow to the head will do to him.

I just wish Denver would start Harris and Kuper on the line at the same time. Harris doesn't deserve a free spot just because of his third round draft position, but getting Clady, Kuper and Harris on the offensive line out there immediately gives Denver three big chunks of their offensive line moving forward. Holland is still young enough to where he'll be around for another several years, and I think the team is high on Lichtenstieger's ability to take over for Tom Nalen. Growing pains are going to happen, and I'd just rather get them over with now as opposed to waiting a while.

Originally Posted by Dream

He's also behind Chris Kuper at RT. He's behind a first-round draft pick and two players who have starting experience, that's expected. I'm assuming Shanahan's expirement with Kuper at RT will end when he realizes that Hamilton probably isn't going to make it through camp, and putting Kuper at guard and a tackle in Harris at the tackle position makes the most sense for the longevity of the line.

That could certainly be true. I could see Harris starting at RT and Kuper at LG if Hamilton really isn't able to continue. We just don't know that. Right now, he's fine. But, after he starts taking hits? How long before his chronic head-trauma returns?

You don't really recover from a brain injury of that sort. Think of prize-fighters. They don't really get "better" after retiring do they? That's because the brain doesn't heal like other organs of the body.

I'm sure the doctors have cleared Hamilton to play, but for how long before he's dinged again? Then what?

I also concur with Dream that this should be our OLINE this year..

Clady, LT -- Kuper, LG -- Licthensteiger, C -- Holland, RG -- Harris, RT

Nalen will be the center this year and then retire. Lichtensteiger isn't remotely ready to start this year. He might get into the rotation late in the year if he makes the 53 man roster, which he might not. We don't really know how good Lichtensteiger will be yet. He might wind up being very good or a bust.

We HOPE Clady is ready to start at LT but that's an extremely difficult task for a rookie. Whatever Shanahan says right now, we'll see when the season starts whether he's got enough of the playbook down to start and be effective. He's a great prospect, which doesn't mean much at this point.

IF Clady isn't ready yet, I'd say they try Harris at LT and put Clady at RT for a while until he's ready. Alternatively, Kuper might start at LT and Clady backup.

We'll have to see.

ETC.: When the Broncos' first- team offense has lined up this week, the offensive line consisted of rookie Ryan Clady at left tackle, Ben Hamilton at left guard, Tom Nalen at center, Montrae Holland at right guard and Chris Kuper at right tackle. Before the Broncos took Clady with their first-round pick in the April draft, Shanahan said Kuper was a candidate for the left tackle spot. . . . The players will be off today before resuming workouts Thursday and Friday.


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Originally Posted by Cugel

That could certainly be true. I could see Harris starting at RT and Kuper at LG if Hamilton really isn't able to continue. We just don't know that. Right now, he's fine. But, after he starts taking hits? How long before his chronic head-trauma returns?

You don't really recover from a brain injury of that sort. Think of prize-fighters. They don't really get "better" after retiring do they? That's because the brain doesn't heal like other organs of the body.

I'm sure the doctors have cleared Hamilton to play, but for how long before he's dinged again? Then what?

Those are the same questions I have, which is why I think Shanahan will realize that Kuper at LG and Harris at RT probably seems the most practical.

Nalen will be the center this year and then retire. Lichtensteiger isn't remotely ready to start this year. He might get into the rotation late in the year if he makes the 53 man roster, which he might not. We don't really know how good Lichtensteiger will be yet. He might wind up being very good or a bust.

Yeah, and to clarify that quoted line-up was for 2009. Nalen's definitely our guy this year, and it'll be interesting to see if Lichtensteiger gets stashed on IR or if he actually makes the roster.

Originally Posted by rcsodak

Well, we all know that draft status means Nothing to Shanny. And harris has knowledge/understanding of the playbook/ZBS, whereas Clady has zilch. Immediately declaring Clady the starter on the left side says mountains about what they think of harris....where only a few months ago, it was purported the coaches were all "high on him".

That's true, Clady being drafted with 12th overall pick isn't going to guarantee him a starting slot. In fact, after the first day of quarterback camp a few weeks ago Shanahan was asked about Clady being named the starter. Shanahan answer was that Clady named the starter however he's going to have continue his competition or he wont start. Shanahan also added that at that point Clady had done nothing to disappoint.

Originally Posted by Dream

Of course draft status matters. They're going to be giving Clady a 6 year deal probably upwards of around 40 million dollars in total earnings. There's no way they sit him for Ryan Harris, who makes around 750k a year. Draft position absolutely matters in certain scenarios, regardless of what Mike Shanahan says. It's the same reason why he took some time to bite the bullet on past high round draft picks just because he thought they'd pan out due to where they drafted him.

You don't draft a guy at #12 and sit him when he's making multi-millions. You get him out on the field. Harris still has a spot on this roster, and as of right now is a valuable back up lineman. These depth charts right now mean absolutely nothing. It's quite possible, and even likely that Harris makes his way into a starting position somewhere on the line, (perhaps LG or RT) by the time the season starts. No hard camp battles have happened, no pre-season games have been played.

I just want to see the best players out on the field.

The X-Factor in all of this is Hamilton. Kuper's getting the nod at RT because the team is assuming he'll come back 100%; which forces Denver to put Kuper, one of their better players out on the field. I think it's a feel good story and likely one that's not going to happen, because of the severity of Hamilton's injury. It's one thing doing some drills and stretching in OTA's, but who knows what another blow to the head will do to him.

I just wish Denver would start Harris and Kuper on the line at the same time. Harris doesn't deserve a free spot just because of his third round draft position, but getting Clady, Kuper and Harris on the offensive line out there immediately gives Denver three big chunks of their offensive line moving forward. Holland is still young enough to where he'll be around for another several years, and I think the team is high on Lichtenstieger's ability to take over for Tom Nalen. Growing pains are going to happen, and I'd just rather get them over with now as opposed to waiting a while.

Well, you can highlight my point all you want, dream, but that doesn't make it so. If you don't believe me, go back and see how many lower draft picks are kept over higher ones....how street free agents beat out draft picks...how #1's don't play their first years becauser they're simply NOT READY!

And since when does YOUR desires get taken care of, over Shanny's/the teams? I highly doubt your wanting to get over the growing pains now rather than later makes Shanny lose any sleep.

And how many different players, in the last 5 yrs, have been drafted, with the intent of being Nalen's replacement.

As far as this statement: Draft position absolutely matters in certain scenarios, regardless of what Mike Shanahan says. .......

..just who in the hell is it that decides who plays/doesn't play if it's not Shanny?

Originally Posted by rcsodak

As far as this statement: Draft position absolutely matters in certain scenarios, regardless of what Mike Shanahan says. .......

..just who in the hell is it that decides who plays/doesn't play if it's not Shanny?

That's certainly not true of Shanahan regardless of what some fans want to believe.

Originally Posted by Dream

It's a good theory, but bigger doesn't necessarily mean better or that they'll have that ability. I hope that's certainly the case.

I have never been high on heavy o-lineman, however if they can get the job done and get Jay the protection he needs then hey.......go for it.

Originally Posted by broncosfanscott

I have never been high on heavy o-lineman, however if they can get the job done and get Jay the protection he needs then hey.......go for it.

I'm guessing your meaning 340+ pounders not a OLINE that is in the 305 range, like ours is, since 305 is not much bigger than what we had about 10 pounds is all.

If it is the former I think most folks would agree with you that it is not compatible with our scheme if they are not smart enough for the ZBS.. Like the foster experiment..

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I'm guessing your meaning 340+ pounders not a OLINE that is in the 305 range, like ours is, since 305 is not much bigger than what we had about 10 pounds is all.

If it is the former I think most folks would agree with you that it is not compatible with our scheme if they are not smart enough for the ZBS.. Like the foster experiment..

Smart, quick, lightweight Olineman that know how to run the scheme and use correct techniques to beat heavier/slower Dlinemen, are just as good if not better than fat ones. Plus, other teams won't be snatching them up before Shanny can get them. That formula has been the staple, and until proven otherwise, will continue.

Let's just hope for a HEALTHY O-line this year. I'd settle for that at this point.