Thread: Let Tebow lead the Broncos past the Chargers

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

Most QB's say they do not learn by setting and the only way to learn is by doing.

What do you expect a competitve athlete to say?

I do not know of any QB save maybe Marino that did not struggle as a rookie. Others had good years but they also had damned fine Defenses or superb players surrounding them and even then their second year numbers were significantly better.

I'll set my rookie QB every time IF I can.
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Yeah... QBs that start from day one don't know what they could learn by sitting for a year (or even most of one)... because they never did. QBs that did sit for a year said it was valuable, even though they'd love to go out and compete... but they don't know what it'd be like to do so.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

Yeah... QBs that start from day one don't know what they could learn by sitting for a year (or even most of one)... because they never did. QBs that did sit for a year said it was valuable, even though they'd love to go out and compete... but they don't know what it'd be like to do so.

Soooo... either way they are saying something they know nothing about? Ok.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Soooo... either way they are saying something they know nothing about? Ok.

just like the rest of us !

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Flacco, Ryan, Manning, Sanchez, Young, Rothlesburger, Stafford, Bradford...All first round QBs that started their rookie season. Throw in guys like Brees, who was a second round pick... Manning and Cutler who started games their rookie seasons.

If he was good enough to take in the first round, as a QB, then the team MUST consider him to be franchise QB material. If he has the ability to be franchise QB material, then there is no reason to treat him with kid gloves when it comes to starting.

Every QB that has ever played has ALWAYS said that you don't learn sitting on the sidelings, because once you get in the game its 10x different. Playing is the only way to learn.

Hell must have frozen over because I'm agreeing with Jr on this one. You're correct, many first rounders have successfully started as a rookie, but there are just as many first round failures that were just put into the game too early. For every Peyton Manning, there are two David Carrs.

And holding the clip board did wonders for guys like Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers. The real characteristics that Tebow possesses right now are the "intangibles" like confidence, not timing, accuracy, etc. His best bet and ours as Broncos fans is to let him train under McD for a year, get a few plays under his belt and prep for next year, IMHO.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

Yeah... QBs that start from day one don't know what they could learn by sitting for a year (or even most of one)... because they never did. QBs that did sit for a year said it was valuable, even though they'd love to go out and compete... but they don't know what it'd be like to do so.

Thanks for cleaning up my thoughts on this.
I do not know of any QB that was hurt from holding a clip board. If anything they got to understand the mental part of the game.

I'm sure that many "surefire" picks where indeed ruined by playing them before they were ready and lost any confidence they had coming out of college.

All of the flacos, big bens had damned fine teams around them and only saw part of the game plan.

Just like Orton had a limited playbook last year or jay or jake their first year in town.

There is just so much one can digest in a few months.
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Originally Posted by Softskull

Hell must have frozen over because I'm agreeing with Jr on this one. You're correct, many first rounders have successfully started as a rookie, but there are just as many first round failures that were just put into the game too early. For every Peyton Manning, there are two David Carrs.

And holding the clip board did wonders for guys like Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers. The real characteristics that Tebow possesses right now are the "intangibles" like confidence, not timing, accuracy, etc. His best bet and ours as Broncos fans is to let him train under McD for a year, get a few plays under his belt and prep for next year, IMHO.

Amazing is it not.

Way to many folks do not use logic but are emotional on the Broncos.

As you said the list is long and undisginshed of failed first round QB's because they were played to so becuase they were drafted to a really bad teams.
They were expected to be the savoiurs of their team and franchise but got buried and were beat up phyiscally or mentally.

I'm not calling denver a lousy team but they did not have the Defense on the level that BAL, NYJ or PIT did.

Give a year or so to work on those spots that need works and allow him to learn the playbook.
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Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Flacco, Ryan, Manning, Sanchez, Young, Rothlesburger, Stafford, Bradford...All first round QBs that started their rookie season. Throw in guys like Brees, who was a second round pick... Manning and Cutler who started games their rookie seasons.

If he was good enough to take in the first round, as a QB, then the team MUST consider him to be franchise QB material. If he has the ability to be franchise QB material, then there is no reason to treat him with kid gloves when it comes to starting.

Every QB that has ever played has ALWAYS said that you don't learn sitting on the sidelings, because once you get in the game its 10x different. Playing is the only way to learn.

Yep. All those guys did just fine starting and if Tebow is of that calibur he should have zero problems adjusting to the NFL. Its really that simple.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

Yeah... QBs that start from day one don't know what they could learn by sitting for a year (or even most of one)... because they never did. QBs that did sit for a year said it was valuable, even though they'd love to go out and compete... but they don't know what it'd be like to do so.

LT I remember Elway saying that while he struggled his rookie season felt benefited more by playing than by sitting.

Originally Posted by Softskull

Hell must have frozen over because I'm agreeing with Jr on this one. You're correct, many first rounders have successfully started as a rookie, but there are just as many first round failures that were just put into the game too early. For every Peyton Manning, there are two David Carrs.

And holding the clip board did wonders for guys like Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers. The real characteristics that Tebow possesses right now are the "intangibles" like confidence, not timing, accuracy, etc. His best bet and ours as Broncos fans is to let him train under McD for a year, get a few plays under his belt and prep for next year, IMHO.

I think a lot of it depends on the situation that they are put into as well as the as well as how much and how firm of grasp does the guy have on the offense.

IIRC the Packers would have liked to start Rodgers sooner than they did because Farve and Rivers wasn't going get the chance to start right away because he was late getting to camp. Then of course Brees had that breakout year and that forced him to sit for another year.

Originally Posted by spikerman

I'm a big believer in letting Tebow play as soon as possible. IMO this is not a Super Bowl (or maybe even playoff) caliber team so why not let the kid get some experience while the team builds around him? This is a young offensive team and they might as well experience the growing pains together. I think it will make them all better in the end.

See I really do not like this kind of thinking. To me you are just throwing in the towel already. We are a 10-6, 11-5 win team this year. We are pretty darn close. A lot closer than everyone seems to think...Which still bewilders me. Why would we throw this season away by having tebow start now?

Anything can happen once you are in the playoffs. I do not care if we do not have the juice to win the big dance or not. Lets give it our best shot and if not then pick up the momentum next year with a few more added pieces and exp for our new guys.

Originally Posted by underrated29

See I really do not like this kind of thinking. To me you are just throwing in the towel already. We are a 10-6, 11-5 win team this year. We are pretty darn close. A lot closer than everyone seems to think...Which still bewilders me. Why would we throw this season away by having tebow start now?

Anything can happen once you are in the playoffs. I do not care if we do not have the juice to win the big dance or not. Lets give it our best shot and if not then pick up the momentum next year with a few more added pieces and exp for our new guys.

How do you know that we are a 10-6, 11-5 team? Im curious.



Edit* Im going to add to this as i dont want it too sound like im coming down on you or trying to steal your optimistic thunder.

But, when i look at the grand scheme of things. That means looking at the player personnel, coaching, etc i just dont see how we are automatically going to improve at that kind of record this year. The last 5 years we have had zero chemistry at the player and coaching positions. To my knowledge i have never seen a team with that much turmoil make the playoffs let alone make the SB. Could it happen? Maybe but not likely. There are just far too many question marks for some of us to really believe that things will be that much more improved this year. To me i think we may be setback a bit because of the losses of Marshall and Nolan. Not fact, just opinion. Maybe you dont put much emphasis on chemistry but i put a lot and that all boils down to experience and talent. Right now we may have a lot of young talent but they are also inexperienced especially on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, we have a lot of experienced players but now yet again have a new DC who we have no idea if he will be as good as Nolan. Some people will say Nolan was to blame last year but when you dont take in the account that he didnt have a guy like Williams on the front line and the offense was totally inept i just cant place blame on the guy. He got handed a cluster**** of a defense and did what he could to salvage it and did alright for 6 games before the weaknesses reared its ugly head again. Just way too much turnover and lack of chemistry for some of us to assume its going to be a grand year. If they do make it to 10-6 or better great, fantastic. But some of us just cant see that considering the circumstances. Right now history is showing that no matter who the DC, HC, players, etc are the results are the same. We may hit 10-6 in 2011 but right now i cant say that will happen judging by the problems this team has faced.

Originally Posted by Softskull

Hell must have frozen over because I'm agreeing with Jr on this one. You're correct, many first rounders have successfully started as a rookie, but there are just as many first round failures that were just put into the game too early. For every Peyton Manning, there are two David Carrs.

And holding the clip board did wonders for guys like Aaron Rogers and Phillip Rivers. The real characteristics that Tebow possesses right now are the "intangibles" like confidence, not timing, accuracy, etc. His best bet and ours as Broncos fans is to let him train under McD for a year, get a few plays under his belt and prep for next year, IMHO.

At the same time, do you know it did wonders? Can you honestly say that, although Rivers may have struggled his first rookie season, that he wouldn't have been as productive his second year after suffering through his rookie.. AND have been on the field one year faster rather than sitting behind Brees?

I'm saying, you don't know if it gave him more benefit. I DO know that he has said that although learning from Brees was nice, that playing on the field taught him a TON more than watching from the sidelines. As has Rodgers. Both saying that playing on the field taught them MUCH MUCH more than watching.

Also, as you said.. his best characteristics are intangibles. THus he needs the playing time to work on the timing, accuracy, presence in the pocket, seeing the rush, and most importantly...the #1 thing... SEEING and learning by watching REAL NFL defenses and learning to read them. Film just isn't the same.

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

Just went and checked.... Brees played in one game as a rookie, and started none.

So ONE of the top 4 qbs in the league started as rookies.

If he's ready... great. If not... that doesn't make him a bust. Not even in the first round.

That's what I've been saying. If the coach feels he's ready fine, if the coach I'm fine with that as well. Just look at what McDaniels has said and done about this situation so far. How many times has McDaniels said how far advance Tebow is? If Tim seriously in the running to be the starter, McDaniels could end the debate right now and declare that Orton is starter period. All I'm saying is that we shouldn't automatically assume he not ready when atm McDaniels even saying that.

Originally Posted by Northman

How do you know that we are a 10-6, 11-5 team? Im curious.



Edit* Im going to add to this as i dont want it too sound like im coming down on you or trying to steal your optimistic thunder.

But, when i look at the grand scheme of things. That means looking at the player personnel, coaching, etc i just dont see how we are automatically going to improve at that kind of record this year. The last 5 years we have had zero chemistry at the player and coaching positions. To my knowledge i have never seen a team with that much turmoil make the playoffs let alone make the SB. Could it happen? Maybe but not likely. There are just far too many question marks for some of us to really believe that things will be that much more improved this year. To me i think we may be setback a bit because of the losses of Marshall and Nolan. Not fact, just opinion. Maybe you dont put much emphasis on chemistry but i put a lot and that all boils down to experience and talent. Right now we may have a lot of young talent but they are also inexperienced especially on the offensive side of the ball. Defensively, we have a lot of experienced players but now yet again have a new DC who we have no idea if he will be as good as Nolan. Some people will say Nolan was to blame last year but when you dont take in the account that he didnt have a guy like Williams on the front line and the offense was totally inept i just cant place blame on the guy. He got handed a cluster**** of a defense and did what he could to salvage it and did alright for 6 games before the weaknesses reared its ugly head again. Just way too much turnover and lack of chemistry for some of us to assume its going to be a grand year. If they do make it to 10-6 or better great, fantastic. But some of us just cant see that considering the circumstances. Right now history is showing that no matter who the DC, HC, players, etc are the results are the same. We may hit 10-6 in 2011 but right now i cant say that will happen judging by the problems this team has faced.

North you are not raining on my parade man. i was giving you ish last time....


But in a nut shell here is why- quick and easy.

Last year we were 8-8

9-7 if orton didnt get hurt against washington
10-6 if we didnt let Jamarcus russell beat us
11-5 if we made our field goal or didnt let philly get past us. we let that game go

we held on against the colts but barely let that one slip away too. Then we blew chunks against the cheifs with ortons couple pick 6s etc....


Anyway this year we have a much simpler schedule. We are going to start out a little rocky imo. BUt the last 6-8 games should all be wins imo. Sure we lost Nolan, but if the reports hold true...Nolan was being a yes man to JMFMD. He was running Joshs scheme, not the other way around. So the defense should probably remain similar. Plus we added some big time beef on the line, to keep guys fresh, stop the run etc....Ayers is looking good and I expect some sacks from him this year... Our whole team now has a year in the system so that IMMEDIATELY is an upgrade.

The OL has also been Drastically upgraded. DRASTICALLY! more time for Kyle, more holes for knowshon. = more yards, tds and 3rd down conversions.

Brandon will hurt being gone, but it is of my own opinion (which means nothing) that it will help our team..Kyle will stop honing in on him. Thus making him progress through his reads and finding other wr...Our scheme should always have someone open. Always. Kyle just needs to react quicker and I think with his go to saftey net, lock on target out he will branch out and spread the ball more like he should.

Really to me it is the schedule and the OL and the DL...Those 3 combined with the fact that we were almost a 10-6, 11-5 club last year leads me to believe that we will infact be that or better this year.

Originally Posted by underrated29

North you are not raining on my parade man. i was giving you ish last time....


But in a nut shell here is why- quick and easy.

Last year we were 8-8

9-7 if orton didnt get hurt against washington
10-6 if we didnt let Jamarcus russell beat us
11-5 if we made our field goal or didnt let philly get past us. we let that game go

we held on against the colts but barely let that one slip away too. Then we blew chunks against the cheifs with ortons couple pick 6s etc....


Anyway this year we have a much simpler schedule. We are going to start out a little rocky imo. BUt the last 6-8 games should all be wins imo. Sure we lost Nolan, but if the reports hold true...Nolan was being a yes man to JMFMD. He was running Joshs scheme, not the other way around. So the defense should probably remain similar. Plus we added some big time beef on the line, to keep guys fresh, stop the run etc....Ayers is looking good and I expect some sacks from him this year... Our whole team now has a year in the system so that IMMEDIATELY is an upgrade.

The OL has also been Drastically upgraded. DRASTICALLY! more time for Kyle, more holes for knowshon. = more yards, tds and 3rd down conversions.

Brandon will hurt being gone, but it is of my own opinion (which means nothing) that it will help our team..Kyle will stop honing in on him. Thus making him progress through his reads and finding other wr...Our scheme should always have someone open. Always. Kyle just needs to react quicker and I think with his go to saftey net, lock on target out he will branch out and spread the ball more like he should.

Really to me it is the schedule and the OL and the DL...Those 3 combined with the fact that we were almost a 10-6, 11-5 club last year leads me to believe that we will infact be that or better this year.

Well, you make some solid points but i still dont see it. Ive always believed you are what your record says you are. Im sure the Colts could say had Manning not thrown that INT they would of won the Super Bowl. But in the end its about the teams that do make the plays to win ballgames. We went 8-8 because we played like an 8-8 team in my opinion. But i would love for them to prove me wrong this year.