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Thread: Town hall discussion on procedures for banning and suspension

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spider View Post
    Did I forget to add that the rules dont apply to me ?
    Well all I have to say to that is:

  2. #152
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    I think AMA ( assistant moderating association) should have the final say in who does and who does not get banned.

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  4. #153

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jody View Post
    A three-person advisory board, with majority vote as the decision.

    Well...a three-person Banning/Suspension Committee, since the advisory board thing has a black cloud over it.
    Yeah, that last is what would hold me back from an IP system; it doesn't matter how well and fairly it works if everyone hates it. Review by more than one person prevents it being (or being seen as) a Mods grudge against one or more members; "I didn't do anything wrong, really, but so-and-so ALWAYS hated me, so s/he banned me. " I'm not accusing anyone of anything, by any means, but you KNOW it would happen, if only because some always prefer to blame others for their own transgressions and the penalties incurred. Review by a small group of Mods allows it to be handled in a timely yet fair manner without something like that scene with the stolen collection plate money in The Simpsons:

    "Everybody turn around and look at THIS!"

    I'm happy so say it's never been an issue that directly affected me, anywhere. I get more upset when people cross the line with others than when they do it with me; when I'm the recipient my reaction is usually along the lines of "wow, that was rude and uncalled for; oh, well... " and while I ain't perfect, I do at least TRY to be civil even when I can't be cordial. MOST people will treat you as you treat them--good or bad.

    Anyway, thanks for requesting our input, ya'll (for future reference, my vote on a garish white background with gratuitous video ads and pics is "please kill me now.... " ) Here's hoping ya'll find a solution that satisfies everyone (yes, I said that with a straight face, but it wasn't easy.... )
    Oh, valid point. I thought you meant all starters, you should take the time to be more descriptive, don't be shy. Jaded

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  5. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by topscribe View Post
    You will never be able to put into motion enough rules and standards to
    negate some differences among Mods. That is anywhere, not just here.

    For instance, say you are caught speeding, going seven MPH over. One cop
    might issue you a ticket, so you have to appear in court, pay a fine, incur
    points on your license, and maybe get an increase in your insurance
    premiums.

    Another cop, however, may just issue a warning ticket (if they still exist),
    while a third might just tell you to slow it down, then go on his way.

    You're going to get that because you are dealing with different individuals.

    That is why we have a process of appeal. When you feel you have been
    dealt with unfairly or you think a Mod might have been a bit heavy-handed,
    you send it on to Admin. And, believe me, the appealing poster gets the
    first consideration with Admin (Tned) because he believes so deeply in the
    community concept for this board.

    We do try to limit that, however. When a circumstance arises where we're
    not entirely sure, we submit it to the other Mods for discussion, and then it
    is taken care of according to consensus among the Mods. This happens
    often, in fact.

    Regarding the banning issue, I will go on record as being against having the
    individual power to ban.

    Now, I personally make a distinction here in terminology. To me, a ban is
    an action that results in a more long-term absence from the board . . . say,
    30 days or more. To me, something short in duration or temporary is a
    suspension.

    Admin has retained the power over bans and suspensions, and any case is
    submitted first to the Mods and then to Admin for the final decision. Admin,
    then, bans or suspends the poster.

    The exception is when Admin cannot be reached and the Mod in question
    deems it urgent to stop the poster's access to the board, either from
    uncontrollable spamming/trolling/flaming or unyielding defiance of a Mod's
    directives, and Admin is not accessible because he is either in bed or away,
    which he does go out of the country on business occasionally. The Mod is
    then authorized to implement an emergency suspension of 24 to 72 hours,
    usually, depending on when
    Admin is expected back onto the board. This is
    the only circumstance under which a Mod can suspend or ban.

    So I will repeat that I am absolutely against giving individual Mods the
    authority to ban or suspend, except under the above circumstances. If
    each Mod ends up with that authority, then we may have an inconsistent
    situation where a poster might get banned by one Mod but not by another.
    This would not be right.

    Hope I made sense in all this rambling.

    -----

    Thanks for clearing that up.

    All I ask, is that when suspensions and especially bans are handed out, there are a set rules that all Mods go by so there isn't any inconsistency.

  6. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWookieeBronco View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up.

    All I ask, is that when suspensions and especially bans are handed out, there are a set rules that all Mods go by so there isn't any inconsistency.
    That's what this discussion is for. However, keep in mind that what you just described is very hard, if not impossible. What I mean, is that rules lead to interpretation, hence inconsistancies between mods, just as there are inconsistancies between posters in how they read/interpret rules.

    This is why we need to define procedures, which might be x number of mods needed to issue a suspension ban, or x number of points if we use a points system, or x number of warnings, or x number of members that form a 'jury pool' for lack of a better word.

    Or, we go the route of having some rules and an individual mod can suspend/ban, with an appeal process to have the suspension/ban lifted after an appeal and review.

    Lots of different options, but quite honestly none of them will likely be perfect. In a perfect world, or message board I should say, there would be no need to even talk about suspension processes.

  7. #156
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    That's why i say you leave it to a majority vote. if they split 3-3, it's a hung jury.

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  9. #157
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    I have no problem with how things are handled now. Of course I'm pretty easy. Just ask Mr.B.

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  11. #158
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    Yea I agree with Escobar. The Mods on this site are pretty funny. If I did something I'd get in trouble. And then pretty much anyone else could say/do the same thing and nothing would happen to them.
    Oh well.
    It happens.

    But I don't really care how things are handled.
    All though being fair would be a nice start.

    I also don't mind the IP system as well.
    I kind of like it over at Mania.
    @Tnedator


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  12. #159

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayCutler4MVP!!! View Post
    Yea I agree with Escobar. The Mods on this site are pretty funny. If I did something I'd get in trouble. And then pretty much anyone else could say/do the same thing and nothing would happen to them.
    Oh well.
    It happens.

    But I don't really care how things are handled.
    All though being fair would be a nice start.

    I also don't mind the IP system as well.
    I kind of like it over at Mania.
    Ah....your just ticked cause your little "Neg Squad" didn't work out...
    so your taking it out on Tned and his mods...

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  14. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCLady View Post
    Ah....your just ticked cause your little "Neg Squad" didn't work out...
    so your taking it out on Tned and his mods...
    Naw, I'm not ticked.
    Just trying to say being fair would be nice.
    They don't have to be fair.
    They can continue to let some get away with murder and others not.


    And our Neg Squad did work out. And once the CP System is back we will be back to our negging self.
    @Tnedator


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  15. #161

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayCutler4MVP!!! View Post
    Naw, I'm not ticked.
    Just trying to say being fair would be nice.
    They don't have to be fair.
    They can continue to let some get away with murder and others not.


    And our Neg Squad did work out. And once the CP System is back we will be back to our negging self.
    Well alot of times...its not what you say but how you say it.

  16. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by KCLady View Post
    Well alot of times...its not what you say but how you say it.
    How Do I say things?
    I'm such a bad boy sometimes
    @Tnedator


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  17. #163

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    Quote Originally Posted by JayCutler4MVP!!! View Post
    How Do I say things?I'm such a bad boy sometimes
    Like an idiot?


  18. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by JayCutler4MVP!!! View Post
    Yea I agree with Escobar. The Mods on this site are pretty funny. If I did something I'd get in trouble. And then pretty much anyone else could say/do the same thing and nothing would happen to them.

    what a bunch of bullshit!
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
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  20. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    T, i think you need to ban somebody as a test run-- just to try it out. . . i nominate HD. . .

    on the contrary, you folks are still members just like the rest of us-- your opinions should count just as much. . .

    not sure how much i have to add that hasn't already been covered, but here are a few things just because i know you want as much feedback as possible. . . first off-- while i'm sure everyone appreciates your reticence to ban anybody unless absolutely necessary, i would remind you that there are instances where the community WANTS you to kick some ass and take some names. . . of course you want to protect the "rights" of individuals, and voicing an unpopular opinion shouldn't be grounds for banning, but if someone is consistently agitating/harrasing other members and instigating conflict with their aggressive posting style, as far as i'm concerned you should feel free to give 'em a vacation. . . i guarantee that almost all the maners will tell you that the board would have been a better place if they'd run bob off, and i challenge anyone to tell me why kmartin shouldn't have gotten the axe from mania years ago? and there were a few "broncos trolls" who were just as bad. . .

    i'm against the IP system, as i think it is every bit as arbitrary as any other system-- i guess i just think that formal IPs feel more "heavy handed" than a PM from a mod for infrequent offenders. . . JMO, and it's not really a huge deal to me either way, but i've admittedly got some intrinsic resistance to it after the way things went down at mania. . .

    i'll echo the prevailing sentiment that individual mods should not be able to ban beyond emergency, short-term suspensions. . .

    overall, my opinion is that the mods have done a very solid job here, and anyone who's claiming bias needs to take a more honest look at their own posting style-- you're almost certainly bringing it on yourself through your own actions. . . . quit crying and put the victim card back in your pocket-- no one's impressed by self-proclaimed martyrs. . .

    I've seen some good ideas for the most part, but Dogfish pretty much sums up my thinking as well as anyone. The mods are outstanding here, and I trust their judgement pretty thoroughly. If anything, they are a little slow on the trigger, but they almost always get it right. I've had a post deleted once, and the mod was 100% right to do so - and he gave me more of an explanation than I really needed as it happened. I would suggest a max 3 day suspension from an individual mod, up to a week or two from 3 mods, and a lifetime ban to be done only by Tned.

    Not crazy about an Infraction Point system, but I could live with it. I'd rather the Mods had the authority right at hand - it will tend to make their instructions get followed.
    “What fresh hell is this?”

    "A man who picks a cat up by the tail learns something which he can learn in no other way." - Mark Twain

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