Thread: Article: Bounty of Cutler deal now in place

Maybe it's me, but I don't really find this haul "stunning" just yet. A proven franchise QB for a backup QB and bunch of guys that are yet totally unproven...

-------------------------

Bounty of Cutler deal now in place
By Mike Klis
The Denver Post
POSTED: 05/02/2010 01:00:00 AM MDT

url: http://www.denverpost.com/klis/ci_15000235

It took two drafts and another week of intense concentration to follow the Broncos' bouncing draft picks, but the results are in on the Jay Cutler trade.

Here's what the Broncos got: starting quarterback Kyle Orton, starting outside linebacker Robert Ayers, first-round receiver Demaryius Thomas, third-round receiver Eric Decker, one-half of tight end Richard Quinn (Bears' draft pick plus one more to get him) and one-third of quarterback Tim Tebow (draft pick plus two more).

The haul is stunning.

On paper, the Broncos have a chance to make this the NFL's most significant blockbuster trade since 1989, when Jimmy Johnson used Herschel Walker to resurrect the Dallas Cowboys' franchise.

Now all the Broncos need is for their acquired players to make the ever-difficult transfer from looking good on paper to becoming productive on the field.

If Ayers and Quinn can rebound from disappointing rookie seasons, if Thomas and Decker can recover from their injured feet, if Tebow can become all that, then Orton may go from the early centerpiece of the deal to an afterthought.

Keep in mind the only player who has made the Pro Bowl since the trade was an afterthought. In return for the Broncos' haul, the Bears got Cutler and a fifth-round pick that turned out to be receiver Johnny Knox.

Knox was named to the NFC Pro Bowl team last season as a returner.

"I was aware I was part of the trade, but I didn't know any of the specifics," Knox said at the Pro Bowl in Miami. "All I know, I was hoping to get drafted and was glad I did."

The trade, as it initially was constructed, sent Cutler and a 2009 fifth-round pick (Knox) to the Bears in exchange for Orton, a 2009 first-round pick (Ayers), a 2009 third- round pick (hold on) and a 2010 first-round pick (hold on some more).

Last season, the Broncos packaged their own third- round pick with the third- rounder they got from the Bears to move into the second round to take Quinn.

This year, the Broncos took their No. 11 overall pick from the Bears, traded down to No. 13 while picking up a fourth- round pick (No. 113 overall) from San Francisco. The Broncos then moved down again to No. 24 overall in exchange for two of Philadelphia's third- round picks (Nos. 70 and 87 overall).

The Broncos moved up from No. 24 to No. 22 by sending the No. 113 overall pick they got from San Francisco to New England and took Thomas.

They kept their No. 87 pick and took Decker.

They packaged the No. 70 pick they received from Philly with two of their own picks to take Tebow.

Two quarterbacks, two receivers, a pass rusher and a blocking tight end.

Even the harshest critics of Broncos coach Josh McDaniels and general manager Brian Xanders would say their draft maneuverings were nothing short of brilliant.

It's the wisdom of their selections — and decision to trade Cutler in the first place — that will come into question until the players produce, and the Broncos win.

Orton a center piece of the trade?

It's a little to soon to say that the moves were brilliant. It's going to take a couple of years to figure out if it was brilliant.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

It's a little to soon to say that the moves were brilliant. It's going to take a couple of years to figure out it was brilliant.

Oh yea, definitely. For all we know Jay could have another Pro Bowl year and take the Bears to the SB while we go 5-11 or vice versa. Thats how fast a year can change for any given team.

I think Klis is trying to say that the maneuvers were brilliant, even if the results are not (or too soon to know).

FWIW, If you accept the notion that Cutler had to be traded, the Broncos got great value out of the deal. If you approved of dealing Marshall for a pair of seconds and you were a fan of trading down from the 11th overall pick, you have to love the 2s, 3s and a fourth we added with those trades.

Did the Broncos actually make good choices with all those bonus picks? That's where most of us will just have to disagree. I'm underwhelmed by the choices and don't think we got even close to what the Cowboys got in the Walker trade but, really, the Cowboys' haul in the Walker deal was almost perfect. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting better than players like Ayers and Tebow who, IMO, are more likely to be busts than stars.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I think Klis is trying to say that the maneuvers were brilliant, even if the results are not (or too soon to know).

FWIW, If you accept the notion that Cutler had to be traded, the Broncos got great value out of the deal. If you approved of dealing Marshall for a pair of seconds and you were a fan of trading down from the 11th overall pick, you have to love the 2s, 3s and a fourth we added with those trades.

Did the Broncos actually make good choices with all those bonus picks? That's where most of us will just have to disagree. I'm underwhelmed by the choices and don't think we got even close to what the Cowboys got in the Walker trade but, really, the Cowboys' haul in the Walker deal was almost perfect. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting better than players like Ayers and Tebow who, IMO, are more likely to be busts than stars.

Well, I don't think there is any way to make the case that Jay had to be traded. There are players all around the league that demand trades that are never traded. So, the fact that the coach/owner chose to trade him puts the onus on McDaniels to not only get great value in the trade, but more importantly to utilize that value (draft picks) to their fullest potential to replace the traded talent with new talent.

For instance, Klis makes the technically correct (maybe) case that Thomas was drafted with the Cutler pick, but you can make a strong argument that A. Smith was ONLY drafted because of the two first round picks gotten from Cutler in '10, so is it A. Smith or Thomas that is tied to Cutler?

Based on 'letter of the law' so to speak, it's Thomas, based on McDaniels saying that the reason he was willing to burn a future first on Smith was because he still had a full complement of picks in '10 (still had the Cutler first), you can make a strong case that A. Smith is what we got for the second first we got for Cutler.

Regardless, when it all comes back, the players we got in these two drafts, which were all in one way or another impacted by the picks we got from Chicago, need to pan out and make up for the Talent that was recently purged from the team. Until we see if that happened, there is no way to call the moves brilliant.

In fact, most of the talking heads agree that McDaniels paid a steep price for Tebow, rather than the moves being brilliant. The reason is that like a person that trades in their car every year, you lose value with each trade in. That's what happened with his trade backs, trade ups. He lost a little value with each one.

As I have said before, I am actually ok with him 'possibly' overpaying for Tebow, because I believe the upside potential is worth the extra cost of making sure that McDaniels didn't lose 'his' player.

However, we aren't going to know any of these answers for quite a few years. Will Cutler become the Jeff George that many on here believe, or will he lead Chicago to the SB? Will Ayers, Smith, Thomas, Tebow, Quinn and others be complete busts, or lead the Broncos to the SB (or somewhere in between)?

Time will tell.

Originally Posted by Tned

Orton a center piece of the trade?

How often do YOU see the Cutler trade mentioned without Orton being discussed?

Originally Posted by LordTrychon

How often do YOU see the Cutler trade mentioned without Orton being discussed?

He refers to the fifth that Chicago got and used on Knox as a throw in, but Orton as a center piece.

Cutler was the center piece, and you could argue the first round picks we got in return were a 'center piece', but to claim that Orton was a center piece is a stretch.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I think Klis is trying to say that the maneuvers were brilliant, even if the results are not (or too soon to know).

FWIW, If you accept the notion that Cutler had to be traded, the Broncos got great value out of the deal. If you approved of dealing Marshall for a pair of seconds and you were a fan of trading down from the 11th overall pick, you have to love the 2s, 3s and a fourth we added with those trades.

Did the Broncos actually make good choices with all those bonus picks? That's where most of us will just have to disagree. I'm underwhelmed by the choices and don't think we got even close to what the Cowboys got in the Walker trade but, really, the Cowboys' haul in the Walker deal was almost perfect. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting better than players like Ayers and Tebow who, IMO, are more likely to be busts than stars.

Maybe that is what Klis is trying say. I wouldn't say the moves were brilliant at this point. In fact I would reserve that term for if and when they make the Broncos a serious contender.

Originally Posted by Tned

Well, I don't think there is any way to make the case that Jay had to be traded. There are players all around the league that demand trades that are never traded.

Chad Johnson anyone? For the two years prior to last season Chad said pubilcally that he wanted to be traded and threatened to sit out IIRC. Just a player says he doesn't want to be there doesn't mean that you have to do it.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Chad Johnson anyone? For the two years prior to last season Chad said pubilcally that he wanted to be traded and threatened to sit out IIRC. Just a player says he doesn't want to be there doesn't mean that you have to do it.

Who is this Chad Johnson you speak of?

Originally Posted by BaileyTheBest

Who is this Chad Johnson you speak of?

Are you serious or are you being sarcastic?

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

Are you serious or are you being sarcastic?

I'm not aware of a current NFL player who goes by the name of Chad Johnson!

for what its worth the trades we made in the draft moving down were brilliant. I hate moving up the trades we made for smith and quinn were dumb. even if smith becomes a good cb (very much in doubt) there was far superior talent on the board @ 14 where we would have been picking this was just a bad rookie mistake. I will reserve judgement on the tebow trade untill he has a season or three under his belt and we know what we have in him hopefully he is not this years matt jones. I feel like we got great value for cutler however it is questionable wether or not we squandered that value at this point.

Originally Posted by OrangeHoof

I think Klis is trying to say that the maneuvers were brilliant, even if the results are not (or too soon to know).

FWIW, If you accept the notion that Cutler had to be traded, the Broncos got great value out of the deal. If you approved of dealing Marshall for a pair of seconds and you were a fan of trading down from the 11th overall pick, you have to love the 2s, 3s and a fourth we added with those trades.

Did the Broncos actually make good choices with all those bonus picks? That's where most of us will just have to disagree. I'm underwhelmed by the choices and don't think we got even close to what the Cowboys got in the Walker trade but, really, the Cowboys' haul in the Walker deal was almost perfect. I wasn't expecting that. I was expecting better than players like Ayers and Tebow who, IMO, are more likely to be busts than stars.

You have to remember that MIN sucked almost as bad as DAL did during that time frame hands down. SO getting a bunch of choices was stunning.

HERE are those drafts after the trade not sure which were DAL or which were MIN and what manuvering they did to get around some of this.

Code:

1991 - Dallas Cowboys
Rd	Sel #	Player	Position	School
1	1	Russell Maryland	DT	Miami (Fla.)
1	12	Alvin Harper	WR	Tennessee
1	20	Kelvin Pritchett	DT	Mississippi
2	37	Dixon Edwards	LB	Michigan State
3	62	Godfrey Myles	LB	Florida
3	64	James Richards	--	California
3	70	Erik Williams	T	Central State (Ohio)
4	97	Curvin Richards	RB	Pittsburgh
4	106	Bill Musgrave	QB	Oregon
4	108	Tony Hill	DE	Tennessee-Chattanooga
4	110	Kevin Harris	DE	Texas Southern
1990 - Dallas Cowboys
Rd	Sel #	Player	Position	School
1	17	Emmitt Smith	RB	Florida
2	26	Alexander Wright	WR	Auburn
3	64	Jimmie Jones	DT	Miami (Fla.)
1989 - Dallas Cowboys
Rd	Sel #	Player	Position	School
1	1	Troy Aikman	QB	UCLA
2	29	Steve Wisniewski	G	Penn State
2	39	Daryl Johnston	RB	Syracuse
3	57	Mark Stepnoski	C	Pittsburgh
3	68	Rhondy Weston	DE	Florida
4	85	Tony Tolbert	DE	Texas-El Paso
5	113	Keith Jennings	TE	Clemson
5	119	Willis Crockett	LB	Georgia Tech
5	125	Jeff Roth	--	Florida

I thought that Josh did some tap dancing to get back and forth like he did to GET those players he wasted with out break the snebulilites of those eth think you can only draft a guy in a creations spot because of perceived "Values"