Thread: Scheffler Traded

Originally Posted by arapaho2

dude thats the point....people keep saying the oline just crashed and burned....im saying the oline didnt drop that bad...the mobility and presence of brady made the pats oline better, the lack of it with cassel made it worse

same with us..orton and his lack of mobility and poor pocket presnce made them decline from one of the top 3 olines in 08 to one of the worst in 09...sure they may have dropped off slightly...but orton and the scheme was the biggest factor in the decline

You would have to be oblivious not realize that our offensive line was going to give up more sacks last season based on the fact that Orton is less mobile. Then the problem was compounded by the fact his pocket presence is inconsistent at best.

I don't think scheme is the problem at all I think it's Orton's style of play that is problematic.

Originally Posted by TXBRONC

You would have to be oblivious not realize that our offensive line was going to give up more sacks last season based on the fact that Orton is less mobile. Then the problem was compounded by the fact his pocket presence is inconsistent at best.

I don't think scheme is the problem at all I think it's Orton's style of play that is problematic.

oh i believe it was obvious and stated last year after the trade of cutler..our sack numbers will increase greatly

i cannot understand how these orton nuthugger will not just admit his lack of mobility..penchant for folding like a cheap table with pressure..and unwillingness to make a play happen by holding on to the ball to long is tha main reason the oline looked so bad

sure weig and ben may not have played at a probolw level...but i doubt thier play dropped on a scale of 1-10 from a 8-7 to a 1

but i disagree on the scheme...i believe the short passing game and scheme was also a culprit...the unwillingness to exploit the center of the field...or the deeper routes led to the defenses stacking the box..therefor running the ball was harder..and until we started to go deep on a regular basis..they would play shallow knowing the high probibility that every thing was gonna be short

Originally Posted by arapaho2

dude thats the point....people keep saying the oline just crashed and burned....im saying the oline didnt drop that bad...the mobility and presence of brady made the pats oline better, the lack of it with cassel made it worse

same with us..orton and his lack of mobility and poor pocket presnce made them decline from one of the top 3 olines in 08 to one of the worst in 09...sure they may have dropped off slightly...but orton and the scheme was the biggest factor in the decline

I guess you did not pay much attention to OUR oline last year.

They changed schemes from an out dated ZBS to PBS with which MOST teams win actually most teams that get to the playoffs.

It was a good move IMHO because it was plain that ZBS had not done the job since the HOF players retired or left.

As for mobility. He is as mobile as most other QB's in the league and can scramble around and move up into the pocket when pressured from the outside to buy time WHEN the pocket has not been collapsed back into him. Hamilton was and actually has been poor at this for a long time this past year casey also failed in this area also. When harris went down the OLINE was a cluster ****.

What was a decent OLINE in 08 turned into one of the worst in )( because the simple fact was they were not able to do basic things like BLOCK your mother from touching the QB or getting into his space.

Josh undoubtably was told by the Oline coach that he could transition them into the PBS mode or he would have replaced dennison up front. He was not hesitant at all in getting rid of almost all of the coaches but kept Rick. So that tells me that Rick and or Pat told him that ist should not be an issue.

Originally Posted by topscribe

You didn't read me right. I said Wiegmann did not play last year in 2008. Why
didn't he play last year in 2008? Because last year was 2009. Get it?

And the line was blown up because the line was blown up. They could not
block. I've seen lines that can block. Denver's in 2008 was one of them.
Denver's in 2009 was not, at least in the second half of the season. Harris'
injury and departure hurt . . . bad. And Wiegmann and Hamilton just wore
down. Why? They got old. That's all I can think of. And Hochstein proved he
is a career backup, and marginally so, at best.

That, paired with a rookie RB because the experienced one was injured, and
the starting QB playing on a high ankle sprain, spelled disaster.

-----

I like you man but why did you completely ignore his very salient point about the patriots offensive line going from great too bad to great with the only difference being a quarterback who can move a little bit and get rid of the ball? Instead you made a silly semantic argument. If you look at very specific games during the season last year, the offensive line looked very good on weeks where we either blended zone blocking with McDaniels' scheme or flat out went zone blocking. At the halfway point we were six and two so McDaniels did his patented, my way or the highway, move and completely switched schemes. Utter failure from then forward. I think everyone on the board should check my spelling and decide whether or not I dangled any participles rather than address the failures of the coach. Even though I spent at least five years listening to everybody (who is currently a McDaniels supporter) trash Mike Shanahan who was a proven winner while he must blindly support someone who has never held the head coaching position.

Originally Posted by Gimpygod

I like you man but why did you completely ignore his very salient point about the patriots offensive line going from great too bad to great with the only difference being a quarterback who can move a little bit and get rid of the ball? Instead you made a silly semantic argument. If you look at very specific games during the season last year, the offensive line looked very good on weeks where we either blended zone blocking with McDaniels' scheme or flat out went zone blocking. At the halfway point we were six and two so McDaniels did his patented, my way or the highway, move and completely switched schemes. Utter failure from then forward. I think everyone on the board should check my spelling and decide whether or not I dangled any participles rather than address the failures of the coach. Even though I spent at least five years listening to everybody (who is currently a McDaniels supporter) trash Mike Shanahan who was a proven winner while he must blindly support someone who has never held the head coaching position.

Gimpy there are young impressionable kids on this board please don't dangle your participles in here.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I guess you did not pay much attention to OUR oline last year.

They changed schemes from an out dated ZBS to PBS with which MOST teams win actually most teams that get to the playoffs.

It was a good move IMHO because it was plain that ZBS had not done the job since the HOF players retired or left.

As for mobility. He is as mobile as most other QB's in the league and can scramble around and move up into the pocket when pressured from the outside to buy time WHEN the pocket has not been collapsed back into him. Hamilton was and actually has been poor at this for a long time this past year casey also failed in this area also. When harris went down the OLINE was a cluster ****.

What was a decent OLINE in 08 turned into one of the worst in )( because the simple fact was they were not able to do basic things like BLOCK your mother from touching the QB or getting into his space.

Josh undoubtably was told by the Oline coach that he could transition them into the PBS mode or he would have replaced dennison up front. He was not hesitant at all in getting rid of almost all of the coaches but kept Rick. So that tells me that Rick and or Pat told him that ist should not be an issue.

again jr whether we changed schemes or not isnt my contention

my issue is with the mcd and orton nuthuggers.....present company excluded of course...and their persistant aurguement that two members of the oline were single handedly responsible for the dramtic decline in not only offense but oline preformance...and the qb swap or scheme did little to degrade the issue

as for your zbs issue...it has been said ..that mcd switched from a predominatly zbs mixed with a little pbs....to a full fledged pbs mid season

coincedentaly about the time we crumbled...