Thread: McClain, Pouncey or bust

My question is why take McClain when this is one of the best linebacker classes in modern memory? A lot of those who are said to be outside linebackers can move inside just as easily, such as Sean Weatherspoon.

1. Rolando McClain - Alabama
2. Jason Pierre-Paul - South Florida
3. Sean Weatherspoon - Missouri
4. Sergio Kindle - Texas
5. Jerry Hughes - Texas Christian
6. Daryl Washington - Texas Christian
7. Koa Misi - Utah
8. Jason Worilds - Virginia Tech
9. Navorro Bowman - Penn State

10. Jamar Chaney - Mississippi State
11. Thaddeus Gibson - Ohio State
12. Ricky Sapp - Clemson
13. Dekoda Watson - Florida State
14. Brandon Spikes - Florida
15. A.J. Edds - Iowa
16. Pat Angerer - Iowa
17. Sean Lee - Penn State
18. Eric Norwood - South Carolina
19. George Selvie - South Florida
20. Donald Butler - Washington

21. Phillip Dillard - Nebraska
22. Roddrick Muckelroy - Texas
23. Perry Riley - LSU
24. Rennie Curran - Georgia
25. Cameron Sheffield - Troy
26. Travis Goethel - Arizona
27. Kavell Connor - Clemson
28. Stevenson Sylvester - Utah
29. Brandon Sharpe - Texas Tech
30. Antonio Coleman - Auburn

And the list goes on...

I don't see McClain as the best value or best player available when there is this sort of talent in the linebacker class.

Take Antonio Coleman from Auburn for example, he's an All SEC First Teamer, who in three seasons as a starter has 34.5 sacks and 45.5 tackles for a loss. Sounds like a pretty good talent to me, even though he's 6-1, 248lbs. he's considered to be a rush linebacker in the 3-4, when his size indicates he could play outside or inside. Look at Joe Pawalek from Baylor, one of the most productive linebackers in the Big XII he's slated to be a sixth or seventh round pick. This is a deep linebacker class, and while I like McClain the class IMHO is too good to take one early with the other needs we have.

Originally Posted by Lancane

My question is why take McClain when this is one of the best linebacker classes in modern memory? A lot of those who are said to be outside linebackers can move inside just as easily, such as Sean Weatherspoon.

1. Rolando McClain - Alabama
2. Jason Pierre-Paul - South Florida
3. Sean Weatherspoon - Missouri
4. Sergio Kindle - Texas
5. Jerry Hughes - Texas Christian
6. Daryl Washington - Texas Christian
7. Koa Misi - Utah
8. Jason Worilds - Virginia Tech
9. Navorro Bowman - Penn State

10. Jamar Chaney - Mississippi State
11. Thaddeus Gibson - Ohio State
12. Ricky Sapp - Clemson
13. Dekoda Watson - Florida State
14. Brandon Spikes - Florida
15. A.J. Edds - Iowa
16. Pat Angerer - Iowa
17. Sean Lee - Penn State
18. Eric Norwood - South Carolina
19. George Selvie - South Florida
20. Donald Butler - Washington

21. Phillip Dillard - Nebraska
22. Roddrick Muckelroy - Texas
23. Perry Riley - LSU
24. Rennie Curran - Georgia
25. Cameron Sheffield - Troy
26. Travis Goethel - Arizona
27. Kavell Connor - Clemson
28. Stevenson Sylvester - Utah
29. Brandon Sharpe - Texas Tech
30. Antonio Coleman - Auburn

And the list goes on...

I don't see McClain as the best value or best player available when there is this sort of talent in the linebacker class.

Take Antonio Coleman from Auburn for example, he's an All SEC First Teamer, who in three seasons as a starter has 34.5 sacks and 45.5 tackles for a loss. Sounds like a pretty good talent to me, even though he's 6-1, 248lbs. he's considered to be a rush linebacker in the 3-4, when his size indicates he could play outside or inside. Look at Joe Pawalek from Baylor, one of the most productive linebackers in the Big XII he's slated to be a sixth or seventh round pick. This is a deep linebacker class, and while I like McClain the class IMHO is too good to take one early with the other needs we have.

I agree not wanting mc clan at 11 myself, BUT if he can be an on the field coach then MAYBE.

I will always hope for LOS players UNTIL we get that area shored up. and then maybe even every other year to have one on the shelf if someone gets a big head and wants ridicules money.(seymor)

I have been an advocate of the NE style of Player personnel for a long time about the same time I got disenfranchised with mikes DAFTING. c


The players that cost you the least down the road (over a 4-5 year contract) are the non skill players LOS Excepting NT and OLT.

Fix that are and everything else gets easier IMHO. the QB have a bit more time to make decisions the WR have more time to run routes and the RB have holes instead of cracks of daylight.

Third and short is not just a (Hail Mary) hope but more of a sure thing. Scoring in the Red Zone is easier and less FG's.

On the other side of the LOS the QB's have less time to survey the field (in some cases have a star bucks), have to make decisions faster and are more likely to put one up for grabs, the WR have less time to run routes and get open, RB have cracks not hole you can drive a M1A1 through. and the LB's and Db are free to play defense of something past the LOS. CB's are not one of the highest tacklers on the field stopping the run. Safeties can rule their area and strike fear into any one that come in their domain.

Fix the LOS folks and everyone else looks and performs better.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I agree not wanting mc clan at 11 myself, BUT if he can be an on the field coach then MAYBE.

I will always hope for LOS players UNTIL we get that area shored up. and then maybe even every other year to have one on the shelf if someone gets a big head and wants ridicules money.(seymor)

I have been an advocate of the NE style of Player personnel for a long time about the same time I got disenfranchised with mikes DAFTING. c


The players that cost you the least down the road (over a 4-5 year contract) are the non skill players LOS Excepting NT and OLT.

Fix that are and everything else gets easier IMHO. the QB have a bit more time to make decisions the WR have more time to run routes and the RB have holes instead of cracks of daylight.

Third and short is not just a (Hail Mary) hope but more of a sure thing. Scoring in the Red Zone is easier and less FG's.

On the other side of the LOS the QB's have less time to survey the field (in some cases have a star bucks), have to make decisions faster and are more likely to put one up for grabs, the WR have less time to run routes and get open, RB have cracks not hole you can drive a M1A1 through. and the LB's and Db are free to play defense of something past the LOS. CB's are not one of the highest tacklers on the field stopping the run. Safeties can rule their area and strike fear into any one that come in their domain.

Fix the LOS folks and everyone else looks and performs better.

I'm all for fixing the line of scrimmage as long as you take care of other needs as well. Hell, I have Denver taking three offensive lineman in my mock draft and a defensive end.

The thing to me is that to be competitive this year we need offensive line, wide receiver and linebacker help above all else. So why not use that first pick on the consensus number one receiver in the draft and use all the other picks to fix the LOS on both sides as well as add linebacker help and depth?

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I agree not wanting mc clan at 11 myself, BUT if he can be an on the field coach then MAYBE.

I will always hope for LOS players UNTIL we get that area shored up. and then maybe even every other year to have one on the shelf if someone gets a big head and wants ridicules money.(seymor)

I have been an advocate of the NE style of Player personnel for a long time about the same time I got disenfranchised with mikes DAFTING. c


The players that cost you the least down the road (over a 4-5 year contract) are the non skill players LOS Excepting NT and OLT.

Fix that are and everything else gets easier IMHO. the QB have a bit more time to make decisions the WR have more time to run routes and the RB have holes instead of cracks of daylight.

Third and short is not just a (Hail Mary) hope but more of a sure thing. Scoring in the Red Zone is easier and less FG's.

On the other side of the LOS the QB's have less time to survey the field (in some cases have a star bucks), have to make decisions faster and are more likely to put one up for grabs, the WR have less time to run routes and get open, RB have cracks not hole you can drive a M1A1 through. and the LB's and Db are free to play defense of something past the LOS. CB's are not one of the highest tacklers on the field stopping the run. Safeties can rule their area and strike fear into any one that come in their domain.

Fix the LOS folks and everyone else looks and performs better.

I agree except for 1 thing.... you are assuming that the NE style of personell is something that wasn't just Bill B's genius. Bill would have never pulled the trigger on Knowshawn. And he would have had nothing to do with the wacky ass trade to select a nickel corner with essentially a first rounder.
I pray McDaniels and his 33 year old wisdom has learned a lesson. Fix the lines first.

Originally Posted by atwater27

I agree except for 1 thing.... you are assuming that the NE style of personell is something that wasn't just Bill B's genius. Bill would have never pulled the trigger on Knowshawn. And he would have had nothing to do with the wacky ass trade to select a nickel corner with essentially a first rounder.
I pray McDaniels and his 33 year old wisdom has learned a lesson. Fix the lines first.

Remember Laurence Maroney?

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Originally Posted by Lancane

I'm all for fixing the line of scrimmage as long as you take care of other needs as well. Hell, I have Denver taking three offensive lineman in my mock draft and a defensive end.

The thing to me is that to be competitive this year we need offensive line, wide receiver and linebacker help above all else. So why not use that first pick on the consensus number one receiver in the draft and use all the other picks to fix the LOS on both sides as well as add linebacker help and depth?

We do not have to have a GREAT WR to win most of the marbles and frankly most WR are worthless as a tit on a boar the first couple of years.

Whereas top flight OG and centers can step in and make a difference in a heartbeat.

I consider the front 7 on D the LOS players especially in a 3-4 as in most purposes they all play it except for perhaps one of the ILB's.


I saw your point on the LB's we do not have to have one day one but maybe one of the 2nd's if someone is special there. definitely early on day three.

I'm just guessing that if Weatherspoon is there in the second he is ours, I think We are going after Tebow day two and Dan Williams at 11 or shortly thereafter if we can move back a bit.

I just watched the second part of his tape on the predraft presser. He was impressed with all three of these kids.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

Whereas top flight OG and centers can step in and make a difference in a heartbeat.

.

Problem is this draft does not have any TOP flight OG/C...Iupati might be the closest at OG....Pouncey is not TOP FLIGHT! He is just the leader of a weak crop of C, even in this amazingly deep draft.

So there is no need to waste a perfectly good #1 on a player that is normally a second round grade.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

We do not have to have a GREAT WR to win most of the marbles and frankly most WR are worthless as a tit on a boar the first couple of years.

Whereas top flight OG and centers can step in and make a difference in a heartbeat.

I consider the front 7 on D the LOS players especially in a 3-4 as in most purposes they all play it except for perhaps one of the ILB's.


I saw your point on the LB's we do not have to have one day one but maybe one of the 2nd's if someone is special there. definitely early on day three.

I'm just guessing that if Weatherspoon is there in the second he is ours, I think We are going after Tebow day two and Dan Williams at 11 or shortly thereafter if we can move back a bit.

I just watched the second part of his tape on the predraft presser. He was impressed with all three of these kids.

Anyone who says the Broncos did not lose games in the trenches was not
watching. Repeatedly, especially in the second half of the season, their
defensive line was shredded and the offensive line was blown up both in the
pass rush and running game. Not even the "Beast" could overcome that 2-8
finish last season.

I was tempted for a while to covet Dez Bryant. And I would still love to have
him. But not at the expense of the lines.

I've come to my senses. Just build the trenches. I watched fabulous stars such
as Floyd Little and Lionel Taylor go through nearly their entire careers on
doormat teams. And now recently I watched the magnificently gifted Marshall
lose with the Broncos. Why? The lines were a bunch of glorified matadores.

Give me McClain, Pouncey, Iupati, Bulaga, Williams - somebody. Just build the
trenches.

IMHO.

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Originally Posted by atwater27

I agree except for 1 thing.... you are assuming that the NE style of personell is something that wasn't just Bill B's genius. Bill would have never pulled the trigger on Knowshawn. And he would have had nothing to do with the wacky ass trade to select a nickel corner with essentially a first rounder.
I pray McDaniels and his 33 year old wisdom has learned a lesson. Fix the lines first.

I truly believe that Josh was told by one and all that dennison could teach up the OLINE to PBS.

The oline was very highly thought of by everyone in the NFL. So it was not much of a leap of faith that it could be done.

Therefore a"difference" maker in Moreno was a key guy in making everyone better, only to find out that the OLG was not worth a crap in PBS and in Pass protect he was not much better. Then Casey showed his ineptness in the PBS but did reasonable job at PP.

When Harris went down the season was pretty much done IMHO. Why he did not use Hillis later int eh season is beyond me.

As for the corner move who knows perhaps he was told he would be a great player by our scouts and was worth the move.

Bill made some grievous errors in his drafting also, but then excepting one draft in DEN so did mike and frankly after all the departure of that daft class one could say other the draft picks we get out of it was it all that great.


I think the short prep time, getting the staff on board (coaches) took a lot of time away from being at the top of their game last year.

I can see where having the scouts looking for X players all year and then be told that we now wanted Y players. the confusion that ensued did nothing to help.

If he blows it this year then I will also be concerned.

Originally Posted by underrated29

Problem is this draft does not have any TOP flight OG/C...Iupati might be the closest at OG....Pouncey is not TOP FLIGHT! He is just the leader of a weak crop of C, even in this amazingly deep draft.

So there is no need to waste a perfectly good #1 on a player that is normally a second round grade.

How can you say it is a weak class on the oline no one I have seen says anything but it is deep.

As for "wasting" a pick, if you have a premier OG and/or center for the next 12 years how can you possibly think it is a waste.

Most of the sexy picks (SKILL) are gone after 4-6 years but the LOS players are there for almost every they are nay good.


WE ARE TO GET A FRANCHISE QB IN THIS DRAFT UNLESS TEBOW FALLS TO US IN THE SECOND.

WR or RB's are a dime a dozen.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Anyone who says the Broncos did not lose games in the trenches was not
watching. Repeatedly, especially in the second half of the season, their
defensive line was shredded and the offensive line was blown up both in the
pass rush and running game. Not even the "Beast" could overcome that 2-8
finish last season.

I was tempted for a while to covet Dez Bryant. And I would still love to have
him. But not at the expense of the lines.

I've come to my senses. Just build the trenches. I watched fabulous stars such
as Floyd Little and Lionel Taylor go through nearly their entire careers on
doormat teams. And now recently I watched the magnificently gifted Marshall
lose with the Broncos. Why? The lines were a bunch of glorified matadores.

Give me McClain, Pouncey, Iupati, Bulaga, Williams - somebody. Just build the
trenches.

IMHO.

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Not even sure on Mc Clain but Dan WIlliams I think will be stud for years. may not play a bunch this coming year but would give the BIG GUY and breather and learn from one of the best.

Iupati is a stud Pouncey or the next guy at at center will make this a LOS team that will make those behind them Sooooooooo much better.

Originally Posted by topscribe

Remember Laurence Maroney?

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That was a late 1st selection, and we can all see how it worked out.

Originally Posted by atwater27

That was a late 1st selection, and we can all see how it worked out.

Yes, 1st round. Kind of pedestrian for a Belichick 1st rounder, isn't he?

And we have yet to see how Moreno will work out. He's been there one calendar year . . .

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Originally Posted by atwater27

That was a late 1st selection, and we can all see how it worked out.

It was A gross deviation from what they consistently do. Pound the LOS.

Originally Posted by turftoad

Because one guy makes a top 5 defense.

Right, Turf. He's going to be out on the field by himself, isn't he?

Were you around when Al Wilson was?

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