Thread: Elam's exit concerns Champ Bailey

Originally Posted by LRtagger

Unfortunately (and realistically) we are not a playoff team at this point. When we are ready to be a playoff team, Jason's contract would be up (if we extended him). Hopefully when we are ready to be a playoff team, we can have a guy groomed to be a playoff kicker.

Exactly! We're not a playoff team right now so we'll be playing more close games. And we need someone to win those close games. And who's better than Elam? Nobody.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

What would we do if we kept Jason and this team really started becoming elite in 3-4 years. Well about that time Jason is ready to retire. Then we are stuck with an elite team and a rookie or washed up kicker. I would rather get the rookie now while the rest of the team is rebuilding and get some experience under his belt now while the team sucks.

If we're elite in 3-4 years, odds are we'll be winning by 10+ points a game. At that point, we won't need Elam.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

Its going to suck possibly watching a rook cost us a couple games in the next year or two, but I would rather watch him miss the kicks now, then when we are making a serious run at the Super Bowl (which we will not be doing for a couple years IMO)

You're right about that. It will suck. But say we end up like the 'boys and are looking for a kicker for the next 5, 6 years.

And BTW, we stand a better chance of winning the SB now than we did 1½ years ago. Just ask Shanny.

Good arguements though tagger.

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

I think you mean hand.. another of mikey pooches.

And to think I was soooo pumped when we drafted Watts. Been a life long Marshall fan and I thought for sure he could be a Stokley type 3rd reciever. Pretty bad when a second round pick gets cut and doesn't even sign with anyone else.

But these are the type of draft picks that have us going 7-9 and looking up at the Chargers while barely holding off the Chefs and Raiders for the cellar in this very weak division.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

You are missing the point completely. No GOOD team needs a kicker to consistantly win games for them. They just dont.

Everyone keeps saying "Oh without Elam last year we would have been 5-11 or 4-12"....well, WITH Elam we were still 7-9!!!!! 7-9 SUCKS ASS.

If we scored consistantly in the red zone, what do you think our record would have been? It would have been 9-7 at the very least. Probably better.

We dont NEED Elam to win games. We NEED a consistant red zone offense and we NEED a defense that can hold opponents to under 26.5 ppg or whatever our defense averaged giving up last year.

Yep your right a good team never needed a kicker to win consistently....err.. wait wasn't that the Pats since they won two superbowls because of a kicker?

And you are missing the point. Even the best teams in the league have had kickers win games key games for them. Want an example?

How many Superbowls came down to an kicker from the Pats?
NFC Championship game this year? Oh yea, kicker (Which he missed 2 or 3 field goals before. Tells you how important they are doesn't it?)
Steelers vs Colts a few years ago, missed field goal decided the game
1998 NFC Championship game? Oh yea kicker
Colts vs Ravens? Oh yea kicker
Bill vs Giants in the superbowl? Oh yea missed kick

I don't care how good your team is you will always need a kicker. Because you aren't the only good team in the league.

And what's you point anyways? I agree the team needs to improve, but at the same time not having a kicker can be horrible.

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

Yep your right a good team never needed a kicker to win consistently....err.. wait wasn't that the Pats since they won two superbowls because of a kicker?

And you are missing the point. Even the best teams in the league have had kickers win games key games for them. Want an example?

How many Superbowls came down to an kicker from the Pats?
NFC Championship game this year? Oh yea, kicker (Which he missed 2 or 3 field goals before. Tells you how important they are doesn't it?)
Steelers vs Colts a few years ago, missed field goal decided the game
1998 NFC Championship game? Oh yea kicker
Colts vs Ravens? Oh yea kicker
Bill vs Giants in the superbowl? Oh yea missed kick

I don't care how good your team is you will always need a kicker. Because you aren't the only good team in the league.

And what's you point anyways? I agree the team needs to improve, but at the same time not having a kicker can be horrible.

uhhh thats great and all that all of those teams won the Super Bowl with the help of a kicker...

but what makes you think we would be going to the Super Bowl anytime soon with or without Jason Elam?

all of those teams were MUCH MORE COMPLETE AS A WHOLE than this team is even close to being. By the time we are on the same level as those teams, Elam will be 40+ years old and only be able to make FG's inside the 30, but will still want $3mil a year.

BTW, how many Super Bowls has a Jason won for us in the last 10 years?

Originally Posted by In-com-plete

And BTW, we stand a better chance of winning the SB now than we did 1½ years ago. Just ask Shanny.

Yea, and he would have said the same thing over the last 10 years...how's that panned out for us

Originally Posted by LRtagger

uhhh thats great and all that all of those teams won the Super Bowl with the help of a kicker...

but what makes you think we would be going to the Super Bowl anytime soon with or without Jason Elam?

Sorry that is a horrible arguement.

"We don't need to keep a good kicker because we aren't going to the superbowl any time soon"

Sorry doesn't cut it. How is the team going to get better as a whole if we get rid of a good kicker?

Originally Posted by LRtagger

all of those teams were MUCH MORE COMPLETE AS A WHOLE

So what? It doesn't mean getting rid of a good kicker is a great idea. Part of those teams was a good kicker.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

than this team is even close to being. By the time we are on the same level as those teams, Elam will be 40+ years old and only be able to make FG's inside the 30, but will still want $3mil a year.

You never know how good or bad a team can be year to year. I still remember saying a few years ago if everything went our way we could get a 12-4 season. I was told that was such a stretch.....we went 13-3 that year. The only given is the Lions will be horrible.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

BTW, how many Super Bowls has a Jason won for us in the last 10 years?

If we take away just half of Elam's field goals how many superbowls would we have made it to? A good team doesn't need to win games solely because of a kicker, but at the same time without a good kicker those teams can lose a lot of games.

The old and worn-out argument is null when it comes to kickers. Morton Anderson proved that to everyone.

Also the Cowboys have proved that having a decent/bad kicker will cost you a lot of games..

So, I am Champs side on this subject...Stupid freakin move. Or non-move, I should say.

I can see this biting us in the ass.

Well, he is gone now, and none of this arguing is going bring him back or help us win any games. Can we put it to bed now?

Originally Posted by Benetto

The old and worn-out argument is null when it comes to kickers. Morton Anderson proved that to everyone.

Also the Cowboys have proved that having a decent/bad kicker will cost you a lot of games..

So, I am Champs side on this subject...Stupid freakin move. Or non-move, I should say.

I can see this biting us in the ass.

Hopefully this won't happen when we play Atlanta this year.

Originally Posted by scott.475

Well, he is gone now, and none of this arguing is going bring him back or help us win any games. Can we put it to bed now?

Where's the fun in that?!

what about Vanderjagt? dude has a big mouth, but he can kick the ball. He still has the best kicking percentage ever in the NFL, and never had a bad season.

wouldnt hurt to give him an invite to camp.

Originally Posted by weazel

what about Vanderjagt? dude has a big mouth, but he can kick the ball. He still has the best kicking percentage ever in the NFL, and never had a bad season.

wouldnt hurt to give him an invite to camp.

Did you see him in Dallas?

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

If we take away just half of Elam's field goals how many superbowls would we have made it to? A good team doesn't need to win games solely because of a kicker, but at the same time without a good kicker those teams can lose a lot of games.

Thats a bit of a reach. Are you saying that no other kicker could have made half the kicks that Jason made? I'm confident we would have been the same dominant team of the late 90's with our without Jason. I don't regret having him at all, he has been a great kicker his entire career, but I don't think we would have any fewer SB rings without him.

Originally Posted by LoyalSoldier

Sorry that is a horrible arguement.

"We don't need to keep a good kicker because we aren't going to the superbowl any time soon"

Sorry doesn't cut it. How is the team going to get better as a whole if we get rid of a good kicker?



So what? It doesn't mean getting rid of a good kicker is a great idea. Part of those teams was a good kicker.



You never know how good or bad a team can be year to year. I still remember saying a few years ago if everything went our way we could get a 12-4 season. I was told that was such a stretch.....we went 13-3 that year. The only given is the Lions will be horrible.

I'm not saying we dont need a good kicker...I'm just saying it is a good time to groom a new GOOD kicker while the team is in a slump.

If our new kicker misses a 30-40 yard kick that costs us a championship, then I'll be glad to admit I was wrong.

I loved Elam as much as the next Bronco fan...I just see no reason to keep him here for $3mil a year just so he can kick meaningless 40 yard field goals while we pooch it everytime our drive stops at the 35 yard line. If all he wanted was more money, I'm sure he realized it might cost him the opportunity to end his career in Denver....now he's going to be kicking even more meaningless FG's in Atlanta. They are one of the few teams in the league that has it less together than the Broncos.

Either way, good luck to him. I think our future will be fine without him. There are plenty of other great kickers out there and we seem to be pretty good at judging talent at that position.

Originally Posted by LRtagger

Thats a bit of a reach. Are you saying that no other kicker could have made half the kicks that Jason made? I'm confident we would have been the same dominant team of the late 90's with our without Jason. I don't regret having him at all, he has been a great kicker his entire career, but I don't think we would have any fewer SB rings without him.

1998 saw the third lowest number of FGs Made in his career. What does that mean? Get the ball in the freaking end zone.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

1998 saw the third lowest number of FGs Made in his career. What does that mean? Get the ball in the freaking end zone.

DING DING DING