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Thread: 2008 Yankees Suck Thread

  1. #61
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    P.S. That lineup, based on last year's Home Run totals (and Cantu's 2005) would hit more Home Runs than 11 other teams.

    P.S.S. I forgot that Hermida, a lower salary guy is on the DL, and Gonzalez is actually his backup.
    Last edited by MOtorboat; 04-05-2008 at 09:39 AM.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  2. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    My statement is NOT false.

    Steinbrenner has been absolutely outspoken on his opposition to a Salary Cap. He is one of the driving forces in baseball as to why there isn't one. So NO, my statement is not false.

    George Steinbrenner was one of the driving forces behind the Strike/Lock Out in 1994. He was the driving force in NOT instituting any sort of system to put teams on a fair competitive balance financially.

    From an intro to an interview with the Chicago Sun-Times in 1994:



    If you’d like to pay for the interview, here’s the link, I didn’t feel like it.

    http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1P2-4248034.html

    Did he come back to Earth a little? Yes, but only enough to ensure that he could still outspend every other team and field a team of All-Stars every single year. He still ensured that he could have 3 players whose combined salaries are more than most teams entire payroll.

    His verbal spar with John Henry in 2004 where he said, "Unlike the Yankees, he (Henry) chose not to go the extra distance for his fans in Boston.," is a shot in the face to a Salary Cap and every other owner who is trying to run a business, rather than spending, spending, spending.

    John Henry wrote a widely spread e-mail during that exchange:



    From the Wall Street Journal shortly after the trade:



    I don't see: "It was designed to make the players get what they deserve," No, the quote says, "It was designed to keep George Steinbrenner from raising salaries."

    With all that said, KB…my thoughts on your plan, coming up…

    Steinbrenner owns one team and has one vote. Agree?

    How can he "strongarm" MLB and when did the players union hire him? Absolute false statements.

    I didn't say Steinbrenner advocated a salary cap. Where did you get that notion? You made an assumption that, as a Yankees fan, I support Steinbrenner. I'm not a Steinbrenner fan, period, nor have I ever been. Clear enough? Do you think I religiously follow Yankees minor leaguers because I want to see them stuck in AAA as high $$ free agents are brought in? Absolutely not. I want to see in house replacements for expiring conntracts... $70 + mil. after this season (Giambi/Mussina/ Abreu/ Pavano, etc. ).

    $100 mil. + = 11 teams
    Under $100 mil = 19 teams

    Of the $100 mil. + teams, the Mariners, White Sox, Braves, and Cardinals make claims to not be able to compete financially.

    Even if the other 7 love the current system (no proof exists), that's 23 teams PLUS the commissioner vs. 7 teams.

    What is Selig doing about the problem. Seems like his $16 mil. salary is being wasted.

    John Henry? The same John Henry that dumped the Marlins, then bought the red sox. Are you OK with that? I'm not. Henry pissed all over Marlins fans and is now beloved in boston. Henry has red sox fans convinced that they are a small market team. Ridiculous.

    Steinbrenner has made hundreds of outrageous quotes over the years. Am I to blindly defend what I don't agree with? I can't. I will not defend him. I am in favor of a salary cap. Without a tough commissioner, the player's union will not agree to a cap. I will continue repeating those statements until they sink in.




  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    It’s a plan that could work. I’d like to see how Baseball forces Steinbrenner down to the limit, especially now three years out from the A-Rod trade.

    I’d also like to see how they can force the Marlins to spend $40 mil more. Not even Cabrera’s new salary would have changed that. As far as the Lowell/Beckett trade…that was probably best for them. So, maybe, if they keep those three players they are above your $60 million floor.

    But, let’s consider the Marlins this season:

    The Marlins starting infield consists of Jorge Cantu at third base, Hanley Ramirez at short, Dan Uggla at second and Mike Jacobs at first.

    Cantu is making $500,000 this year for is efforts. He’s a career .271 hitter, who has battled some injury issues. But, in 2005, he hit .286 with 28 HR and 40 doubles. Could he do that again. Sure, if he’s healthy. 28 Home Runs in Dolphins Stadium isn’t likely, but 40 doubles is. So far, he’s not hitting that well.

    Hanley Ramirez is making $402,000 this year. Ramirez has shown some absolute brilliance in the last two seasons. He hit .332 in 154 games last season with 48 doubles. He scored 125 times and had 212 hits. He also had 29 Home Runs and 81 RBI, batting from I believe the No. 2 spot. His strikeouts are a little high, but then again, he’s only 24.

    Dan Uggla is making $392,000. Uggla is also an extremely young, talented player. He hit .245 last year, down from .282 in 2006. But, he had 31 HR and 88 RBI, to go along with 49 doubles. In 2006 he hit 27 HR, with 90 RBI. He strikes out too much, but he’s got some pretty good pop in his bat.

    Mike Jacobs is making $380,000. Jacobs is a little less unproven than the other three, but he still hit 17 HR, 54 RBI, 27 doubles in 114 games last season. He’s not a hitter that’s going to hit for a high average, but he does have some decent pop. Like Uggla, he strikes out a little much, but he’s a big league first baseman.

    That’s a big league infield, not a Triple-A infield. That’s an infield costing the Marlins $1.674 million, and it includes a potential All-Star short stop.

    And their outfield:

    Josh Willingham in left, Cody Ross in center and Luis Gonzalez in right.

    Willingham is making $380,000 and Ross is making $380,000. Willingham hit .265 last year and .277 in the previous year. He hit 26 HR in 2006 and 21 last season. He also has 28 and 32 doubles, respectively in that time frame. Ross, in limited action last year, hit .335 with 12 HR and 19 doubles, in just 173 at bats. He’s bounced around quite a bit, but it looks like he might be emerging as a decent outfielder at the age of 28.

    Gonzalez is the lone big-money man. The Marlins, and probably unwisely, gave him $7,156,599 to come play right field at 40 years of age. However, after Jose Guillen, he might have been the best corner outfielder on the market, and he hails from Tampa. Obviously, his numbers have declined a little over the last three seasons, but he still hit 15 HR, 23 doubles and hit .278 in 464 at bats last season in L.A.

    That outfield is costing the Marlins $7,916,599.

    Add in catcher Matt Traenor, who is making $380,000 and the Marlins lineup, for the most part a big-league lineup, that could compete on just about every night, is going to cost $9,970,599.

    As you can see, that cap floor has to be set a lot lower than $60 mil, because the Marlins aren’t fielding a AAA team with $21 mil. They might be in their pitching, though they’ve got some incredibly talented arms there too, but they are fielding a major league team with that $21 mil.
    No forcing necessary: the Yankees have $86 million in expiring contracts after the 2008 season. The only player I want back is Pettitte, should he want to continue playing, which is 50/50 at best.


    A cap floor would have to be phased in. A ceiling could be immediate. Both would be necessary to gain the union's approval. As I said, my plan is an outline. Where is Selig's outline? Had Selig done his job, this would have been at least the 3rd year of a new plan. You are forgetting all the players the Marlins have dumped over the past few years. Why didn't the league step in?

    How is Cuban held in check in the NBA? Tough restraints. It works. 100% tax trumps 40% tax.

    Cuban has far more $ than Steinbrenner, who, contrary to popular belief, isn't even the wealthiest owner in MLB, much less pro sports.
    Last edited by keithbishop; 04-05-2008 at 09:49 AM.




  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    No forcing necessary: the Yankees have $70 + million in expiring contracts after the 2008 season.


    A cap floor would have to be phased in. Had Selig done his job, this would have been at least the 3rd year of a new plan. You are forgetting all the players the Marlins have dumped over the past few years. Why didn't the league step in?
    Because other than Cabrera, the younger guys might be better.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    You made an assumption that, as a Yankees fan, I support Steinbrenner.
    No. I didn't. Never said anything of the sort, and could care less if you like him or not. That's not the argument.

    You're kidding yourself if you don't think Steinbrenner has pull with other owners. Absolutely kidding yourself.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

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    OK, I'll play.

    Steinbrenner has feuded with Henry. He has feuded with Glass, and, obviously, the other low payroll owners loathe him. He has feuded with the Mets and D-Backs.... hell, he has pissed off practically every team over the years.

    Who are his allies? Steinbrenner butts heads with EVERYONE, even his employees. Always has. Always will. Please explain how he is popular among owners. I don't like him and I'm a diehard Yankees fan. Who hasn't he pissed off?

    You are kidding yourself if you think he's in some sort of clique. Are you seriously making a case for his popularity among executives?
    Last edited by keithbishop; 04-05-2008 at 02:34 PM.




  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithbishop View Post
    OK, I'll play.

    Steinbrenner has feuded with Henry. He has feuded with Glass, and, obviously, the other low payroll owners loathe him.

    Who are his allies? Steinbrenner butts heads with EVERYONE, even his employees. Always has. Always will. Please explain how he is popular among owners. I don't like him and I'm a diehard Yankees fan. Who hasn't he pissed off?

    You are kidding yourself if you think he's in some sort of clique.
    So is that why the other 29 owners allow him to keep spending as much money as he can fork over?

    I guess that's just the Players Union, eh, I mean, those other 29 owners who hate the man have never had a vote on anything, right.
    *The statements above are my opinions, unless they are links, because then they are links, which wouldn't make them my opinions, and I suppose stats aren't necessarily opinion, but they are certainly presented to support an opinion. Proceed accordingly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Buff View Post
    What is this, amateur hour? It's TNF against the Jets and you didn't think you'd need extra booze?

  8. #68
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    Quote Originally Posted by MissouriBronc View Post
    So is that why the other 29 owners allow him to keep spending as much money as he can fork over?

    I guess that's just the Players Union, eh, I mean, those other 29 owners who hate the man have never had a vote on anything, right.

    For the 13th (at least) time :

    BUD SELIG. Selig is incompetent and flat doesn't care about anything but his reputation. He doesn't care about the game. If he did, salary and steroid issues would have been dealt with long ago. Who wants a spineless commissioner?

    If you were commissioner, would you ignore salary issues?

    Who are Steinbrenner's allies? Glass? Henry? At least give me some team names. Are you seriously making a case for Steinbrenner's popularity ? That's a new one. Steinbrenner is universally hated.

    Newsflash: If the complaint is Steinbrenner.... and Steinbrenner operates within the rules...... brace yourselves: it is time to change the rules. Who is in charge of such issues? The commissioner. When your commissioner owns a small market team, his blood should boil at a big market team with a huge payroll.

    What is so difficult to understand about the situation?

    Change the rules.

    Increase luxury tax.

    Put in a cap.

    Whatever it takes... just get the commissioner to do his job. Selig gets $16 mil. a season for what??

    I guess the other option would be for Selig wait for Steinbrenner's conscience to get to him. Not going to happen, folks.
    Last edited by keithbishop; 04-05-2008 at 02:45 PM.




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