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Thread: Broncos need to move Marshall, antics out of town

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Kind of. Obviously, I'm not going to compare Orton to the other guys as far as overall skills go, but I think it is often forgotten that Orton is only 27 years old and hasnt really had too much of an opportunity to play his best football yet.
    Sounds like you've changed your mind about Orton being a long term solution.

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    orton was the least of our problems last year.
    i'm not going to sit here and try and say he was awesome,but he played well and played through injuries for the better part of the season.
    our biggest problem was the o-line and the the run game (which obviously go hand in hand).
    we were terrible on 1st and 3rd down rushing,buckhalter did well and had alot more impact than moreno ,but he too had injury issues and the fact that mcd wanted to get moreno alot of carries to prime him to be a feature back next year and beyond.
    i think if we make improving the line a priority we should see some significant improvement to our run game ,which in turn opens up the passing game and the entire offense .
    i really think orton has the skills and intelligence to run the system effectively.but the "system" requires all cylinders to be firing and last year we never really had that going for us.
    i agree we need to get a quality back up qb ( or draft a stud for the future )
    but we will be alot better off if we fix the lines and keep the key players we have.

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    I'm willing to give Orton the benefit of the doubt (we'll see next year) but if the BRONCOS don't address the oline (starting and depth wise), we may have to find a QB (who is mobile and can throw on the run) that can overcome a poor line which they're aren't many that can!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by TXBRONC View Post
    Sounds like you've changed your mind about Orton being a long term solution.
    No...I maintain my position. If an obviously immediate upgrade is available...I'm all for it. Same can be said for any position. I'm also not opposed to drafting a QB for the future.

    That all being said...if Orton is our QB next year and beyond, I'm willing to give him more than one year to prove he is capable of the task.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    No...I maintain my position. If an obviously immediate upgrade is available...I'm all for it. Same can be said for any position. I'm also not opposed to drafting a QB for the future.

    That all being said...if Orton is our QB next year and beyond, I'm willing to give him more than one year to prove he is capable of the task.
    People are so quick to blame the qb.

    I blamed cutler for alot of losses.....as he should be. He threw dumbass int's at the most inopportune times/redzone.

    I can't remember Orton doing that last year.

    Sure, he got picked 2x for 6's vs KC, but take them away, and they STILL get beat.

    He's heady...gutsy...modest...smart...determined...coac hable...team 1st.

    It's been awhile since we had a QB like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcsodak View Post
    People are so quick to blame the qb.

    I blamed cutler for alot of losses.....as he should be. He threw dumbass int's at the most inopportune times/redzone.

    I can't remember Orton doing that last year.

    Sure, he got picked 2x for 6's vs KC, but take them away, and they STILL get beat.

    He's heady...gutsy...modest...smart...determined...coac hable...team 1st.

    It's been awhile since we had a QB like that.

    I certainly do not understand this. all most can think is he is Joshes boy, or he does not have a cannon arm.

    he is everything :

    heady...gutsy...modest...smart...determined...coac hable...team 1st.

    that jay was not

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    Quote Originally Posted by CoachChaz View Post
    Kind of. Obviously, I'm not going to compare Orton to the other guys as far as overall skills go, but I think it is often forgotten that Orton is only 27 years old and hasnt really had too much of an opportunity to play his best football yet.
    I'm not trying to turn this into another anti-Orton debate, but I think we've seen his best football. I don't see his physical skills improving. He's in his prime physically right now. Every year older will add wisdom, but detract from his athleticism, it's just a fact of life.

    Orton never really was an ideal physical specimen, so even if he "hits the gym" this offseason I don't think it's going to change much (maybe it'll help him fight off those pesky ankle injuries, who knows?).

    Manning and Favre have always been physical specimens with a big arm and the ability to throw the ball to anywhere on the field. Brees, although not prototypical size, is deadly accurate on short and mid range passes and is the master of putting the ball "only where his WR can get it".

    Okay, I'm done now.


    “Tact is the ability to tell someone to go to hell in such a way that they look forward to the trip.” -Winston Churchill

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ziggy View Post
    Bingo. I wish more folks around here had the sense to realize that a lot of the play calling was out of necessity.
    Unfortuantely, who's fault is that? If you know you dont have the guys in place to run YOUR scheme why try and force it? Wouldnt the "smart" thing to do would be to utilize the scheme that best fits your personnel?

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    Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
    I'm not trying to turn this into another anti-Orton debate, but I think we've seen his best football. I don't see his physical skills improving. He's in his prime physically right now. Every year older will add wisdom, but detract from his athleticism, it's just a fact of life.

    Orton never really was an ideal physical specimen, so even if he "hits the gym" this offseason I don't think it's going to change much (maybe it'll help him fight off those pesky ankle injuries, who knows?).

    Manning and Favre have always been physical specimens with a big arm and the ability to throw the ball to anywhere on the field. Brees, although not prototypical size, is deadly accurate on short and mid range passes and is the master of putting the ball "only where his WR can get it".

    Okay, I'm done now.

    It is kind of funny. When the trade for Orton first happened we all believed that he would succeed because our Oline is better than Chicago's. But now, all of a sudden our Oline sucked. Again, this falls on the HC. If you dont have the players necessary to run the type of a scheme you want you dont force the triangle into the square hole. And believe it or not, a majority of the wins last year fell no the defensive side of the ball who in the end couldnt keep it up with no offense to show for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    It is kind of funny. When the trade for Orton first happened we all believed that he would succeed because our Oline is better than Chicago's. But now, all of a sudden our Oline sucked. Again, this falls on the HC. If you dont have the players necessary to run the type of a scheme you want you dont force the triangle into the square hole. And believe it or not, a majority of the wins last year fell no the defensive side of the ball who in the end couldnt keep it up with no offense to show for it.
    Exactly.

    But I think we've seen Orton's game enough over 5 years to know what he is, and what he isn't.
    (the previous comment was not directed at any particular individual and was not intended to slander,disrespect or offend any reader of said statement)

  17. #26

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    Marshall needs to be gone - not necessarily what I 'want,' but at this point (his fault, McD's fault, Orton's fault, man-on-the-moon's fault, whatever...) he needs to go.

    ...and he can take Scheff with him - that I DO want.

    Agree with most - Orton is what Denver has for the next year or two while they groom the long term solution at QB. Hopefully, somebody who is young and can throw down field.

    I'd have no problem with Orton staying as a backup here - I do like his attitude and he seems to be a great team player - but that's probably unrealistic.

    JMO...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Northman View Post
    It is kind of funny. When the trade for Orton first happened we all believed that he would succeed because our Oline is better than Chicago's. But now, all of a sudden our Oline sucked. Again, this falls on the HC. If you dont have the players necessary to run the type of a scheme you want you dont force the triangle into the square hole. And believe it or not, a majority of the wins last year fell no the defensive side of the ball who in the end couldnt keep it up with no offense to show for it.
    While I almost agree with you here.

    When Josh came to town the OLINE was supposed to be one of the best in the NFL, that based on last years stats.

    NOw he had to have asked Dennison if his loin could make the changes he wanted them to. Does anyone doubt that he would have gathered him in and said this is what I want to do. Who on the OLINE can't do this? I'm guessing since Denison has never taught anything but ZBS that he learned from the master Gibbs, that he was not certain but knowing his job was on the line he told Josh and Xman they could do it.

    As we can see from last years debacle they could not and probably why Dennison is not still around, aside from the fact that he got a better job offer.

    We also Know that hamilton was replaced midstream and of course the rock on the right crumbled do to injury.

    Against out smallish DLINE in TC everything went well as the unit was intact. but once we started playing real LOS teams it did not take long to figure out that it was not working. That is why on running plays we saw more ZBS after a few games.

    But the real issue was lack of continuity with two new bodies on the loin in polumbus whom may be a bust or just that raw he needs time to get better.

    Hockstien althought a veteran just did not have what it took to do the job, or perhaps casey did not help him as much as he had back in NE with their center.

    Hey I do not have the answer for sure.

    But I firmly believe that Josh was under the impression that his OLINE could do the job or he would have replaced some of them up front. Or not made the switch completely away from ZBS in TC.

    I suspect he thought that hamilton would be the weak link thus, the reason we drafted a OG and brought one in. Or perhaps he thought they would be losing Kuper as well to FA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jrwiz View Post
    I certainly do not understand this. all most can think is he is Joshes boy, or he does not have a cannon arm.

    he is everything :

    heady...gutsy...modest...smart...determined...coac hable...team 1st.

    that jay was not
    you forgot "low on talent". . . .



    *runs away*
    “When we do find that guy, we’ve got to have the continuity on the offensive side to where we can train him and develop him and get him there. This is our fourth offense in probably three or four years. Quarterbacks need to be developed. You don’t find one ready-made. We got to have a solid system in place for when we do go after whatever guy it may be, a young guy or a trade or whatnot.”
    - John Elway

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    Quote Originally Posted by dogfish View Post
    you forgot "low on talent". . . .



    *runs away*
    UNlike some I still think there is talent there.. I have seen no indication that he can't throw it long, Nor have I seen that he can't make "all of the throws".

    I'll give him another year hopefully behind a decent Pass blocking oLINE and having another year in the scheme as well as most of his targets having the same.

    I know that many here think that the team should have had the O down dick straight after a couple of games, but football at this level playing against the best of the best players in the world just does not allow for any hesitation..

    Kind a like when Ashley came to town, he terrorized the WAC had an almost 400 yard day against UTEP. was highly touted a burner with grate pass catching ability. But he found out fast that talent can only get you so far. Playing against world class DB in the NFL was a far cry from those in the WAC.

    He had to evolve but he was a one trick pony that IMHO did not like to get hit, something he rarely did in the WAC.

    I'm not saying that Kyle is an elite QB but we really do not need and Elite QB to win consistently and frankly no one thought brady was going to be the QB he turned out to be. He developed into one with coaching and practice.

    I for one am willing to give him at least this coming year to see what he is. If Josh wants to draft another QB I have no issues with that but I suspect he will be a later round choice and not a day one guy. T hat is or has not been in the NE mentality for decades or at least since Bill took over. In fact just the opposite. Like mike liked no body RB's I suspect Josh will like no name QB's.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56 View Post
    Every year older will add wisdom, but detract from his athleticism, it's just a fact of life.
    Oh Lord this is scary. If Orton were any less athletic he would be, well, me.

    Note to PB, I'm available at a cheaper price!
    “If there are no animals in Heaven, then when I die I want to go where they went.” - Will Rogers (paraphrased)

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