Thread: The Official Colorado Rockies thread--Now with extra awesome!!

I think the Rockies are in rough shape now being 11 out with like 32 to play. The Dodgers suck but had a good series vs the Rox.

Now tonight I can root for Kershaw to win his 17th hopefully. Good luck the rest of the way.

I sure hope Pomeranz has better stuff than White. Holy shit, this is the guy we traded for?

Originally Posted by Buff

I sure hope Pomeranz has better stuff than White. Holy shit, this is the guy we traded for?

he had a better start in his first outing

Originally Posted by Thnikkaman

he had a better start in his first outing

You mean when he gave up 5 earned runs and 2 HR's to the worst team in baseball?

Guy's fastball is topping out at 89. I'm freaking out over here.

Guys, White was atrocious. Like, he had single A stuff last night. Can someone talk me off the ledge? Now this deal is looking like Jimenez for Pomeranz straight up.

Originally Posted by Buff

Guys, White was atrocious. Like, he had single A stuff last night. Can someone talk me off the ledge? Now this deal is looking like Jimenez for Pomeranz straight up.

Last night was an abboration for White. He has never walked that many in a professional start. He is only 23, and needs some time.

This season is over much to my chagrin (and you are all welcome to say I told you so). So I plan to follow White and Pomerantz through the Fall leagues, and spring training to see what a few months of healthy pitching is going to do for them.

Meanwhile, I'm more concerned that Tracy is going to continue to run guys like Wiggington, Ellis, and Rosario out onto the field every day. We need a better 3rd baseman, and to have Tracy get over his irrational hatred for Iannetta.

Originally Posted by Thnikkaman

Last night was an abboration for White. He has never walked that many in a professional start. He is only 23, and needs some time.

This season is over much to my chagrin (and you are all welcome to say I told you so). So I plan to follow White and Pomerantz through the Fall leagues, and spring training to see what a few months of healthy pitching is going to do for them.

Meanwhile, I'm more concerned that Tracy is going to continue to run guys like Wiggington, Ellis, and Rosario out onto the field every day. We need a better 3rd baseman, and to have Tracy get over his irrational hatred for Iannetta.

Speaking of irrational, your dislike of Tracy is misplaced.

If he had better talent to run out there everyday, I'm sure he would... He's tried just about everybody and their brother at 3B, and everyone has failed. Ianetta sucks - guy can't hit consistently. You should be ripping O'Dowd, not Tracy. He's the one who brought in all of the under-performers. Tracy can't make them play better.

As far as White goes, it's more his stuff that has me worried than the actual results. I think his first 3 pitches last night were 89MPH fastballs middle/middle. Not sure how many 2-0 counts he got into, or how many guys he walked, but it was getting ridiculous. I know he is young and needs time to develop - but I have zero expectations for him based on his first two starts. Abysmal.

Originally Posted by Buff

Speaking of irrational, your dislike of Tracy is misplaced.

If he had better talent to run out there everyday, I'm sure he would... He's tried just about everybody and their brother at 3B, and everyone has failed. Ianetta sucks - guy can't hit consistently. You should be ripping O'Dowd, not Tracy. He's the one who brought in all of the under-performers. Tracy can't make them play better.

As far as White goes, it's more his stuff that has me worried than the actual results. I think his first 3 pitches last night were 89MPH fastballs middle/middle. Not sure how many 2-0 counts he got into, or how many guys he walked, but it was getting ridiculous. I know he is young and needs time to develop - but I have zero expectations for him based on his first two starts. Abysmal.

Before I continue, I meant Alfonzo, not Rosario who is our Catcher of the future.


So, Chris Ianetta with his 3.0 should be sitting on the bench instead of Alfonzo with his 0.5 War. Ianetta does nothing other than be a +glove, and get on base all the freaking time. Meanwhile, Tracy insists that the catcher must bat 8 (so if Ianetta draws a walk and he is very good at working the count and drawing walks, he has the freaking pitcher to get him home).

As far as Jim Tracy goes, he is screwing this team up the same way he screwed up the Dodgers and Pirates. He is platooning players instead of letting players with potential get into a rythim (Seth Smith, Chris Iannetta), mistrusting his bullpen (where is it written that a relief pitcher should only pitch one inning?), and not putting the best team on the field every day.

A good manager who does his job has little effect on the positive performance of his team. A bad manager sets his team up to fail.

And White is only 23. Chacin who is also only 23 has location issues. Ubaldo had location issues when he was 23. Pitchers at a professional level are rarely world beaters at 23. This isn't the NFL, we can afford to have a little patience.

Originally Posted by Thnikkaman

Before I continue, I meant Alfonzo, not Rosario who is our Catcher of the future.


So, Chris Ianetta with his 3.0 should be sitting on the bench instead of Alfonzo with his 0.5 War. Ianetta does nothing other than be a +glove, and get on base all the freaking time. Meanwhile, Tracy insists that the catcher must bat 8 (so if Ianetta draws a walk and he is very good at working the count and drawing walks, he has the freaking pitcher to get him home).

As far as Jim Tracy goes, he is screwing this team up the same way he screwed up the Dodgers and Pirates. He is platooning players instead of letting players with potential get into a rythim (Seth Smith, Chris Iannetta), mistrusting his bullpen (where is it written that a relief pitcher should only pitch one inning?), and not putting the best team on the field every day.

A good manager who does his job has little effect on the positive performance of his team. A bad manager sets his team up to fail.

And White is only 23. Chacin who is also only 23 has location issues. Ubaldo had location issues when he was 23. Pitchers at a professional level are rarely world beaters at 23. This isn't the NFL, we can afford to have a little patience.

Thnikk, I don't know what kind of purple row BS you are buying into, but you basically just described the opposite of Tracy's style...

Tracy is all about trusting guys, letting them settle into roles, etc. If anything, he is guilty of giving guys too much time to develop (Ianetta, Ian Stewart, EY)... He came in here and was the opposite of Clint Hurdle - Hurdle tinkered with the lineup everyday, would bail on guys too early and kill their sense of confidence the second they started to struggle.

Tracy kept running Giambi out there in May when the guy was like 0 for 30, allowing him a chance to find his swing.

Again, we're talking about the Manager of the Year two years ago. The players like him and respect him. The owners like him. The GM likes him. I like him.

This team's got 99 problems and the manager ain't one.

I wouldn't be jumping ship on White yet. He is not going to be a top of the rotation guy but his sinker was hitting 92-93, he is pretty much a young Aaron Cook. If we could get that out of him to hold down the 4-5 spot in the rotation that would be huge. (Of course the good, most wins in franchise Aaron Cook).

I will admit that the FO is partially at fault, but Tracy is as bad as a tinkerer as Hurdle was. If you don't see it, you aren't paying enough attention.

So Buff, this is what I was trying to find earlier

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2007/10/5/154241/436

This is a list of all the crap the Pirates fans dealt with having Tracy as a manager. Many of these things feel very familiar now.

Originally Posted by Buff

Thnikk, I don't know what kind of purple row BS you are buying into, but you basically just described the opposite of Tracy's style...

Tracy is all about trusting guys, letting them settle into roles, etc. If anything, he is guilty of giving guys too much time to develop (Ianetta, Ian Stewart, EY)... He came in here and was the opposite of Clint Hurdle - Hurdle tinkered with the lineup everyday, would bail on guys too early and kill their sense of confidence the second they started to struggle.

Tracy kept running Giambi out there in May when the guy was like 0 for 30, allowing him a chance to find his swing.

Again, we're talking about the Manager of the Year two years ago. The players like him and respect him. The owners like him. The GM likes him. I like him.

This team's got 99 problems and the manager ain't one.

I totally agree - I do not blame what happened this year on Tracy - I heard that he does not have a say so in trades.

Originally Posted by Thnikkaman

So Buff, this is what I was trying to find earlier

http://www.bucsdugout.com/2007/10/5/154241/436

This is a list of all the crap the Pirates fans dealt with having Tracy as a manager. Many of these things feel very familiar now.

Tracy is a quality manager. You don't get three different gigs in the big leagues without doing something right. Guy had a winning record with the Dodgers. Every manager who has taken the Pirates job in the last 20 years has left without success there.

Singling out Tracy as the problem misses the mark horribly. He is the least of our concerns. Hell, my biggest complaint against Tracy is that he kept Bob Apodaca around... Rail against Apodaca if you want to take up a worthwhile cause.

Originally Posted by Buff

Tracy is a quality manager. You don't get three different gigs in the big leagues without doing something right. Guy had a winning record with the Dodgers. Every manager who has taken the Pirates job in the last 20 years has left without success there.

Singling out Tracy as the problem misses the mark horribly. He is the least of our concerns. Hell, my biggest complaint against Tracy is that he kept Bob Apodaca around... Rail against Apodaca if you want to take up a worthwhile cause.

We are at an impasse. Tracy sucks. He holds grudges against players, and doesn't field the best team out of the players the front office provide for him. The same reasons why the Dodgers and Pirates fired him are what he is doing wrong with the Rockies.

And sure, lets blame Apodaca. Our pitching has been horrible since 02.