Thread: The Official Colorado Rockies thread--Now with extra awesome!!

Originally Posted by Rick

I really hope Holiday does not walk but as good as he is, and after tasting playoffs last year, why would he want to play on a team that is among the bottom of the league

Hopefully they turn it around and can convince him to a long term deal.

Fat chance.

Boras most likely won't let him.

I'd get used to him in another uniform.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Here's your point of view...in case you forgot. I believe you are saying there are very few people who can't pitch in altitude.



Then you bring up "unloading payroll," which is a stupid argument since Holliday most likely won't sign with the Rockies, so the Rockies might as well get what they can for him, instead of a compensatory draft pick.

Now, with that said, I find your arrogance very unbecoming of you. It, frankly is quite funny. You're a Cubs fan, that has little to no knowledge of your own damn team, yet you want to pass judgment on the Royals and Rockies, the teams I root for.

Holliday won't sign with the Rockies. It is important that they trade him and get something for him, other than a compensatory pick.

This is not about unloading payroll, it's about getting something for a player you will not sign in the future, because his agent is an idiot, and the economics of baseball won't allow you.

The "lecture" isn't a lecture if I'm trying to show you reality.

You say you can't get solid pitching prospects at altitude. That's stupid. DN(C) said altitude doesn't matter. That's also not true.

I simply stated that the REALITY of the situation is somewhere in between. Sucks that you "feel" I lectured you, but frankly, you didn't really know what you were talking about, so I corrected you.

If you want to continue this conversation in a civilized matter, I will, but clearly...after post after post...you are un-capable of doing so, and become offended when you are wrong.

I've studied extensively, and have come with very serious conclusions, that you refuse to believe or listen to. That's not my problem, and it also doesn't mean I'm lecturing you.

You clearly have a problem with someone correcting you...that is your problem, not mine.

I wasn't wrong. You're selectively omitting items. And whats sad is that Ive already corrected you on one item specifically and youre still getting it wrong. Its perfectly obvious to me that youre just guessing or you attribute me saying what you want me to say as it serves your purpose...and then you go on to talk about reality...ironic.

Ill try to post excerpts later to show you where you lost your way.

Originally Posted by lex

The problem with that idea is that the odds of getting young arms that can be effective in Coors Field are enough of a concern that its not really worth trying to replace Holliday. I know its popular to dump payroll to acquire young arms and such but it doesnt always work out. And Id be wary of trying to be too clever if Im Colorado. Because if it doesnt work out, theyll find themselves trying to replace a big run producing player AND trying to find pitchers.

Unloading payroll for young pitchers is a little more problematic in Colorado in terms of finding guys who can deliver in the altitude. I wouldnt bank on the FO being THAT good.

You interpreted this to mean this:

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Altitude, doesn't mean you can't pitch.

And then I cleaned up on this idea that you attributed to me erroneously.

Originally Posted by lex

I understand that you can pitch well in altitude. I didnt exactly say you couldnt. I said its a little more problematic finding guys who can pitch in Denver. And, one thing that hasnt been mentioned to this point is that the other team has to pitch in the altitude too. I realize all that. But theres an element of physics in all this on top of the ball flying farther. The thinning of the air causes a lack of friction that makes breaking pitches effective typically. It causes them to flatten out. So they have to find pitchers that can manage the altitude with the repertoire they have. Otherwise, its resorting to hoping you outscore everyone.

And then you do the same thing later even after being admonished for the same thing.

Originally Posted by MissouriBronc

Here's your point of view...in case you forgot. I believe you are saying there are very few people who can't pitch in altitude.

I didnt say very few. I said its more problematic for the Rockies.

Then you bring up "unloading payroll," which is a stupid argument since Holliday most likely won't sign with the Rockies, so the Rockies might as well get what they can for him, instead of a compensatory draft pick.

Now, with that said, I find your arrogance very unbecoming of you. It, frankly is quite funny. You're a Cubs fan, that has little to no knowledge of your own damn team, yet you want to pass judgment on the Royals and Rockies, the teams I root for.

Holliday won't sign with the Rockies. It is important that they trade him and get something for him, other than a compensatory pick.

This is not about unloading payroll, it's about getting something for a player you will not sign in the future, because his agent is an idiot, and the economics of baseball won't allow you.

The "lecture" isn't a lecture if I'm trying to show you reality.

You say you can't get solid pitching prospects at altitude. That's stupid. DN(C) said altitude doesn't matter. That's also not true.

I simply stated that the REALITY of the situation is somewhere in between. Sucks that you "feel" I lectured you, but frankly, you didn't really know what you were talking about, so I corrected you.

If you want to continue this conversation in a civilized matter, I will, but clearly...after post after post...you are un-capable of doing so, and become offended when you are wrong.

I've studied extensively, and have come with very serious conclusions, that you refuse to believe or listen to. That's not my problem, and it also doesn't mean I'm lecturing you.

You clearly have a problem with someone correcting you...that is your problem, not mine.

And once again, with this lie. I call it a lie because you were already corrected on this.

No, my problem is with your shortcomings.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

Being a Denver area native, before the Rockies came here, and the Denver Bears played here - the word ALTITUDE never entered the discussion in regards to baseball. Same altitude then as it is now?????

I was taking issue with the idea that it was never an issue and proceeded to demonstrate that it was talked about.

Originally Posted by lex

It was discussed all the time in considering where to locate a new franchise. A lot of people had misgivings about putting a team in Denver out of fear or what it would do for stats and such. Ive seen studies before and I think they said that a ball hit 400 ft at Shea would go over 430 ft at altitude. I remember this just like I remember the talk of what they should name the team.

Originally Posted by lex

OK, but you also had stuff like this:

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpag...50C0A96E948260

Here is the title of the article:



I think youre in denial or maybe you just dont remember stuff like this. I lived in Denver too once and I remember this being an issue.

Notice how I totally didnt discredit it her. The issue of altitidue may have been minimal, though Im not sure what thats in relation to. But notice that after she went from using words like "never entered discussion" to "did not make a big deal out of altitude" I pretty much backed off because the latter is more subjective and a matter of degree.

Originally Posted by Denver Native (Carol)

No, not in denial - before MLB, they just played baseball here - like - "what you see is what you get". Did not make a big deal out of the altitude.

And for some reason you felt compelled to be a go-between in this. I dont know what it was you attributed to me in all this but as demonstrated before, this is a problem with you. Youve really accomplished nothing. This back and forth with her really was an issue in terms of using the word "never" instead of something less absolute like "rarely".

How can you rebuke people and pound you chest for representing reality, if you dont even know what various people are saying...OR, at the very least, cant get it right?

I almost forgot. After reconciling your misstatements, I wanted to circle back and address this.

Then you bring up "unloading payroll," which is a stupid argument since Holliday most likely won't sign with the Rockies, so the Rockies might as well get what they can for him, instead of a compensatory draft pick.

Thats according to you. Im not as fatalistic. If the club sees him as one who consistently produces and one who has the kind of cache that benefits the club in ways like jersey sales, they may decide its worth it to sign him. You might be right but I think its a little foolish to put it in absolute terms like you have.

Now, with that said, I find your arrogance very unbecoming of you. It, frankly is quite funny. You're a Cubs fan, that has little to no knowledge of your own damn team, yet you want to pass judgment on the Royals and Rockies, the teams I root for.

What exactly have I said thats negative about the Rockies or the Royals? I said its a shame what has become of the Royals because they were once a very good franchise. I dont see whats so bad about that. I guess I shouldnt be surprised with what I recently cited that youd somehow attribute something else to this.

And the remark about not knowing about the Cubs is yet another indication of how you like to make stuff up. And to think you get upset with me badmouthing the media.

Opening Day payrolls for 25-man roster
(salaries plus pro-rated signing bonuses):
2008: $ 68,655,500

Holliday situation will definitly be tricky. I think we all want him back, but we have to realize that we could lose him so I am hoping for the best.

As for some stuff to look for this year. I think it is only a matter of time untill Brian is traded. Depending on how the Rockeis play this month which I think is going to be a huge month to determine what will happen with the roster down the road. Hawpe and Holliday look to be back within at least a week and a half, Holliday will make an impact, Spilly could spilt time for sure with Hawpe but Brad will get the chance to get out of his slump. But still comes down to finding some quality starts.

But back to my point. I think that Brian will be the first name off the roster. He is in the final year of his deal and has always been a name thrown around. As much as he has done on the Rockies, close games, been the lone All-Star in past years it makes sense to deal him to a team looking to bollster their post season run and Brian should bring an above average prospect arm to the system.

And here are some other names of players that could be delt, as much as some might not want to hear:
Jeff Baker of
1 year/$0.403M (2008)
Ryan Spilborghs of
1 year/$0.397M (2008)

-Spilly could draw alot on interest, I really like him and would love to keep him but he has the skills to be a starting out fielder on any team and I wonder if the Rockies would be willing to pay him, Willy is in the last year of his deal and Spilly could man CF but that is losing alot of speed and ground that Willy can cover.
-Baker just has not caught a break. Barmes has shown that he is legit at 2nd, Jeff is blocked in the OF and at thrid, he won't bring in a big hual but could bring in an ok prospect and or vetern pitcher even.

That leaves one less name to deal with in the off-season. But this off-season is going to be a crazy one for the Rockies. They are unloading plenty of contracts but who gets the money? Do the throw it at Holliday and try to extend him? Do they stay put and wait to sign Holliday?

Here are the main names on the roster that will be here next year assuming they fullfill their contract.

Matt Holliday of
2 years/$23M (2008-09) re-signed 1/18/08 (avoided arbitration)
08:$9.5M, 09:$13.5M
award bonuses: $25,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove; $50,000 for Silver Slugger; $75,000 for LCS MVP; $0.1M each for MVP, WS MVP.

Hawpe is locked up untill 2010 with a club option in 2011, 08:$3.925M, 09:$5.5M, 10:$7.5M, 11:$10M club option ($0.5M buyout), 3 years/$17.425M .
Helton:
9 years/$141.5M (2003-11), plus $23M 2012 club option
Tulo:
6 year/$31M (2008-13), plus $15M 2014 club option, 08:$0.75M, 09:$0.75M, 10:$3.5M, 11:$5.5M, 12:$8.5M, 13:$10M, 14:$15M club option ($2M buyout).
Manny Corpas rhp
4 years/$8.025M (2008-11), plus 2012, 2013 club options, 08:$0.575M, 09:$0.75M, 10:$2.75M, 11:$3.5M, 12:$6M club option ($0.25M buyout), 13:$8M club option ($0.5M buyout), escalators may increase: 2011 salary by $1M to $4.5M options by $1M each to $7M in 2012 and $9M in 2013.
Aaron Cook
3 years/$30M (2009-11), plus 2012 option, signed extension 12/11/07
$2.5M signing bonus
09:$8.75M, 10:$9M, 11:$9.25M, 12:$11M mutual option ($0.5M buyout)
annual performance bonus: $0.125M for 200 or more IP
if traded, remaining annual salaries increase by $1M
Cook to make annual $50,000 donation to club charity.
Luis Vizcaino rhp
2 years/$7.5M (2008-09), plus 2010 club option, 08:$3.5M, 09:$3.5M, 10:$4M club option ($0.5M buyout).
Jeff Francis lhp
4 years/$13.25M (2007-10), plus $7M 2011 club option
signed extension 11/06
$0.5M signing bonus
07:$0.5M, 08:$2.75M, 09:$3.75M, 10:$5.75M, 11:$7M club option 2011 club option increases to:
$7.5M with 2nd or 3rd in 2009 or 2010 Cy Young vote $8M with 2009 or 2010 Cy Young or 450 IP in 2009-10, award bonuses: $0.1M for WS MVP, $75,000 for LCS MVP, $25,000 each for All Star, Gold Glove.
Yorvit Torrealba c
2 years/$7.25M (2008-09), plus 2010 mutual option, 08:$2.75M, 09:$3.5M, 10:$4M mutual option ($0.5M buyout).

Atkins is the big name, you know he wants to get paid and he deserves to get paid.
1 year/$4.3875M (2008), performance bonuses: $17,500 each for 600, 625, 650 PAs, $20,000 each for 675, 700 PAs.
So what does Atkins deserve? Here are the top saleries for third-basemen:

Alex Rodriguez, $27,500,000 (2008-17)
Miguel Cabrera, $19,037,500 (2008-15)
Aramis Ramirez, $15,000,000 (2007-11)
Adrian Beltre, $12,800,000 (2005-09)
Mike Lowell, $12,500,000 (2008-10)
Chipper Jones, $12,333,333 (2006-08)
Troy Glaus, $11,500,000 (2005-08)
Scott Rolen, $11,500,000 (2003-10)
Eric Chavez, $11,000,000 (2005-10)
Nomar Garciaparra, $9,250,000 (2007-08)
David Wright, $9,166,667 (2007-12)

Seems like Atkins would at least get 8+ million depending on the length of the deal. Still alot depends on what the Rockies want to do with Ian Stewart. And Atkins will be the top name on the market, Hank Blalock * TEX is the only other name with impact and he has on 09 option with the Rangers.

As for the other names that will be coming off the books:
Clint Barmes ss
1 year/$0.405M (2008)
Micah Bowie lhp
1 year/$0.65M (2008)
Jason Grilli rhp
1 year/$0.42M (2008)
Scott Podsednik of
1 year/$0.75M (2008)
Glendon Rusch lhp
1 year/$0.85M (2008)
Cory Sullivan of
1 year/$1M (2008)
Mark Redman lhp
1 year/$1M (2008)
Willy Taveras of
1 year/$1.975M (2008)
Matt Herges rhp
1 year/$2.5M (2008), plus 2009 club option
Kip Wells rhp
1 year/$3.1M (2008)
Taylor Buchholz rhp
1 year/$0.399M (2008)
Jason Hirsh rhp
1 year/$0.396M (2008)
Chris Iannetta c
1 year/$0.396M (2008)
Omar Quintanilla ss
1 year/$0.396M (2008)
Ryan Speier rhp
1 year/$0.393M (2008)
Ubaldo Jimenez rhp
1 year/$0.392M (2008)
Franklin Morales lhp
1 year/$0.391M (2008)
Edwin Bellorin c
1 year/$0.391M (2008)

Barmes to me would be the guy the Rockies would go after the most, he has really showed improvment at the plate and his defense is above average. Having him and Tulo up the middle and in the line-up would be a great combo for how ever long Barmes is here.
Buchholz, Speier, Ubaldo, Frankilin, Chirs, Willy, Hirsh, Omar, are the other names that stick out to me as ones the Rockies would like to hold onto, lots of youth and upside.
Ubaldo seems like a no brainer, Franklin can't give up on him yet, Chirs is making strides and shows the ability to be a plus offensive catcher, Hirsh depends on what he shows when he works his way back but his, Bucky has been an ace in the pen, Speier I still think will be a solid pitcher, Willy loads of speed not getting on base as much this year but his .320 avg last year and ability to bunt for hits are pluses to a line up with not alot of speed, Omar I think has at least earned himself a shot at making this team as the utility fielder next year depending on if other team have interest thsi year, and Hirsh is a quailty pitcher and we will have to see how he performs as he works his way back this year.

This is a lot to take in at the moment, shows the amount of things the Rockies are going to have to consider in the off-season and as this season goes on. It all still ties into the Holliday contract situation and the way the Rockeis owners have been known to spend cash and not spend cash. Holliday being number one priority on the roster with Atkins one B, looks like they still have questions about how to fill the bull pen, solve the back end of the rotation and take care of the bench depth which should be ok with the amount of playing time the youngsters are seeing. Still have quality prospects working their way up which we will start to see within the next few years but the vets will be the key.

Got the contract info from http://mlbcontracts.blogspot.com/2005/01/colorado-.html, and yo can also check out the upcoming FA's and all teams contracts. Alot of relief pitchers could hit the market next year.

Anyway I will still be watching the Rockies and trying to stay on the bright side for the most part. Francis vs Penny tonight, lets go Rockies!

Holy shit, we're winning late!

That take down by Torrealba on Kemp was one of the best things I have ever seen.

And to follow it up by an Iannetta home run was awesome!!!!

Looks like this team might have some fight left...literally.

Maybe that's just what they needed.

Originally Posted by Timmy!

Looks like this team might have some fight left...literally.

Maybe that's just what they needed.

We can only hope.

.700 ball the rest of the season....

I love Yorvi! He's such a badass.

Throw down Yorvit!

DENVER -- The Colorado Rockies announced left fielder Matt Holliday will begin a rehabilitation assignment with Triple-A Colorado Springs on Thursday.

Holliday was placed on the 15-day disabled list May 25 with a strained hamstring. He was batting .321 with eight homers and 26 RBIs at the time.

Rockies shortstops Troy Tulowitzki and Clint Barmes and outfielder Brad Hawpe also are on the DL.

Copyright 2008 by The Associated Press

Here we go...bottom of 9th....lets go Fuentes...

2 in a row, and a series win!!!!

ROCKIES WIN ROCKIES WIN

AND Arizona loses AGAIN