Thread: Brandon Marshall..Meh, who needs him?

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Because its a passing league and the rules are made around passing.

You make it sound like only stud WRs get to play with those rules. Here's the thing, it's a passing league but still teams aren't winning SB's with super duper elite wideouts (mostly).

and when you only have an elite LT out of those positions listed?

You typically would want to get more elite players. A great way to do that is to acquire draft picks. A great way to do that is to make a trade. A great way to make a trade is to find a player you can live without. Hey, don't you guys have some numbskull wideout who is really good but is a cancer....I bet you could trade him!

Sorry man, Im' not buying this. There was nothing that showed up on Al Wilson's MRI, and Rod SMith's MRI, and Marshall's hip last year. I personally think its ridiculous to think that this MRI is some kind of magical 'proof' that Marshall did or didn't have an injury, and now he's supposed to be held accountable by a medical that has proved to be so unreliable already? Especially when he just went 15 games and busted his ASS for this team? What did he have to gain by sitting if he wasn't hurt? Not buying that junk for a moment. You can if you want. I know how you feel about Marshall, and you are going to take McD's opinion on the situation. Thats cool. But when this PARTICULAR staff has already misdiagnosed two of Denver's all-time greats.. guys that would NEVER have their heart/toughness/integrity questioned (especially publicly by the coach).... then I have no reason to trust them with this.

The issue is that I have no reason to trust Marshall who is as trust worthy and believable as Rod Blagojevich. I would have an easier time believing Marshall if he didn't leave practice because cold air makes it hard for him to breathe.

I also have NO reason to believe that McDaniels didn't make an overly-passionate and overly-emotional decision with Marshall on this. Thats what he's shown to be.. someone that is QUICK to react, and stubborn to recant. His passion and excitement are both his plus and his minus, and I think these player relations are the perfect example of them being the minus.

The issue is that his own players went to him and asked him to get tough on the team. It seems to me that there are only a few players who have bad relation with him.

Again.. you want to get rid of the guys we HAVE and hope to find guys like Ward???? Until you have someone like him on the roster, chances of finding a guy with that kind of ability AND the kind of 'perfect' personality you want, are very very rare. When you have an elite talent, especially when you don't have anyone else even CLOSE to replacing him with... getting rid of him simply lowers the abilities of your team.

It seems better than keeping a guy who constantly quits on you. It seems better to make a real offense that has diversified threats. Go ahead and keep him. I mean it's worked out great for you guys in the past, right? All sorts of playoff berths and what not have come from the fruits of Marshall's labor.

[QUOTE]YOur statement as far as Marshall 'quitting" on the team, has no value to me. Thats taking McD's word on the situation, and again, he hasn't shown me for a MOMENT to tell the truth at all. He's proved time that he will lie as fast as anyone to make himself look good to the media. So you have nothing that gives me any true indication that Marshall would all-of-a-sudden QUIT on this team when he proved to be ALL EVERYTHING all season long for us. Just doesn't hold water to me.

And your counterargument holds no water to me. I guess it's nice we can argue this out on a message board, huh?

I don't recall McDaniels lying at all. Why is Marshall quitting on you a surprise? I have been repeatedly bashed on this website for going "Yeah, Marshall, great player, too bad he's bad for your team." I remember getting slaughtered for posting "It's funny how quickly a fanbase can forget the past actions of players."

Yeah, let me tell you who ISN'T looking like an ass right now on that one. I'll give you a hint, he's a Bengals fan, one of your favorite posters and really likes bacon.

It's the same guy who was drafted in the second or third round because he was an idiot in college. The same guy who repeatedly got into trouble with the law. The same guy who was batting balls down in the summer. The same guy who got suspended. The same guy who left practice because dammit to hell cold air is just brutal these days.

Go ahead and give him the benefit of the doubt because if you end up keeping him I'll enjoy another round of "I told you so."

CLose. I don't think a new contract patches anything up with Marshall here. Not one bit. Nothing is going to make Marshall want to play for this coach.. money or not. I know he's gone. But you are right. I do think that they BOTH need to do a LOT of growing up. My biggest problem, is that while our HC is learning to grow up, we are hemorrhaging big-time talent. Big time talent that didn't have any problems with previous, more mature, coaches. Seems like an awful BIG coincidence that we are blaming several different players, and then trying to blame previous coaches, when the ONE common denominator is staring us in the face. :whoeknows:

One of those 'big time talents' helped force his own way out of town and the 'other' big time talent was reportedly on Shanahan's chopping block several times. Not my team, really couldn't comment on that one, but I do know that even if Cutler was his bad this one isn't. Marshall is a turd. A gigantic cancer. A 'tancer' if you will.

Same could be said about Ocho, right? Cancer implies that what he is doing is some how "spreading" throughout the locker room.. like cancer spreads. Nothing Marshall has done is spreading around and tearing at the locker room.

I could say that Peyton Manning is a cancer. Doesn't mean there's anything there to really substantiate it. Don't get me wrong, Ocho can act like an ass, but the difference with him is that he learns his lesson the first time. Does it excuse it? No. Would I rather have him on my team? Yeah, because at least when it comes time to play football I know that he's ready for it.

If we had elite talent at QB, where they could make other WRs look better, and perform better....then losing a star WR doesn't hurt as bad. When you have the kind of average talent we have at QB, you can't lose the only star you have on offense and simply expect to make it up with other average players (like gaffney).

And if you had a star wideout that wasn't a cancer....I understand what you're saying, but it seems to me like you know Marshall is a turd and is hurting your team.

It seems that the biggest "mantra" around here is "no one is bigger than the team." To me, that stands for the coach as well. Respect is earned, not demanded simply because you wear the HC hat.

McDaniels isn't acting like he's bigger than the team.

As always, Ravage, I've greatly enjoyed this exchange.

I'll take the stance that today's game is more about passing than it ever has been and having quality WR's is almost a must. However...I also believe you are better off with 3 good receivers than you are with 1 great receiver. Take a look at what Brees is setting records with in N.O. His numbers are better than most QB in the NFL...including Warner who has the Great Fitzgerald and Boldin in his arsenal. Romo had his best year in a long time...with Miles Austin and Roy Williams?

I'll take 3 good players over one great one any day. JMO

Originally Posted by CoachChaz

I'll take the stance that today's game is more about passing than it ever has been and having quality WR's is almost a must. However...I also believe you are better off with 3 good receivers than you are with 1 great receiver. Take a look at what Brees is setting records with in N.O. His numbers are better than most QB in the NFL...including Warner who has the Great Fitzgerald and Boldin in his arsenal. Romo had his best year in a long time...with Miles Austin and Roy Williams?

I'll take 3 good players over one great one any day. JMO

even the "tres amigos"

Originally Posted by King87

....

I'm not going to go back and respond to all of that..... damn.


His own players didn't go to him. Seems of all people that would be honest about this, would be CHamp and Dawkins. Both denied the claims. That was just another story put out to justify the over emotional coach.

Not to mention you continue to say that Marshall "keeps quitting on you"... baseless and completely untrue statements, King. COMPLETELY false, and I can't believe you of all people are stating them.

Also.. you state that Marshall was on his way out with SHanahan.. ANOTHER false claim that was purely speculated by a writer, and disputed by SHanahan himself. I know you are better than to keep using false information as your facts.

Considering how many times Ocho gets fined, and has admitted to having a set FUND set aside each year to pay for his fines, how can ANYONE say "he learns his lesson after the first time????" Makes no sense.

But ifyou are talking about a player that comes to play.. then Marshalll proved that throughout the ENTIRE season with his 3rd 100+ catch season, and had to do that with Orton throwing to him this year. You'll have to do more to show me where this guy continues to 'quit on the team' as you keep suggesting.

Not buying it. Also believe this coach very much puts himself above the team. But.... tahts what disagreeing is about...seeing things completely different.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

I'm not going to go back and respond to all of that..... damn.


His own players didn't go to him. Seems of all people that would be honest about this, would be CHamp and Dawkins. Both denied the claims. That was just another story put out to justify the over emotional coach.

Once again. The players did come to him early in the week and ask him to hold the team accountable.

Then on Wednesday during the team meeting, the word of the week was "accountability".

Then, Marshall was late for treatment and was benched as a means to hold him accountable.

The players didn't specifically ask for Marshall to be benched for being late for treatment, but prior to that incident they had asked McD to hold the team accountable.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

Once again. The players did come to him early in the week and ask him to hold the team accountable.

Then on Wednesday during the team meeting, the word of the week was "accountability".

Then, Marshall was late for treatment and was benched as a means to hold him accountable.

The players didn't specifically ask for Marshall to be benched for being late for treatment, but prior to that incident they had asked McD to hold the team accountable.

Again.. what does this prove to me? That supposedly the players came up to McD and said this, and then McD took this to mean he should bench his players?

Also, seems that the team word "accountability" came after Marshall told the coach that eh may not be able to go because of his hamstring.

Hey... like I said. You guys can see things as you want to see them, as we all will. I have yet to see a coach with maturity handle this team this year. He's an emotional coach, which we loved seeing after the NE game, but its the same emotional reactions we get when we see QBs being traded (or even going after), and then seeing more playings being benched in the most important game of the season.

So who's holding the coach accountable if he's doing things that aren't best for the team?

I'm not saying the players aren't immature, I just want to see that our that our coach can actually handle player relations WITHOUT trading them away or benching them.

Sure seems like there is an awful lot of coaches in the NFL that don't seem to be trading away pro-bowl players every year. But I'm sure its just ALL on the players.

Originally Posted by NightTrainLayne

Once again. The players did come to him early in the week and ask him to hold the team accountable.

Then on Wednesday during the team meeting, the word of the week was "accountability".

Then, Marshall was late for treatment and was benched as a means to hold him accountable.

The players didn't specifically ask for Marshall to be benched for being late for treatment, but prior to that incident they had asked McD to hold the team accountable.

yes and the haters will say that did not mean benching anyone.

but what does the coach have other than setting someone or fining them.

what is he supposed to do get up and say brandon you are a bad boy lets not do this again.

some one mentioned earlier about the play calling, coach being to close to the forest to see the trees, perhaps if anyone makes this kind of come back it would seem they are so blinded for their hate for a coach and system they are really unable to "get it".

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

even the "tres amigos"

neg rep

-----

found an interesting stat today that DEn had TWO players in the top 18 in the AFC for dropped passes both played less games than two their counter parts.

read it and weep.

http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/lea...esdropped.html

Code:

Rank	Name	Team	Games	Drops	 
 	1	Braylon Edwards	CLE	16	16	 
 	2	Dwayne Bowe	KC	16	13	 
 	3	B Marshall	DEN	15	12	 
 	T-4	LColes	NYJ	16	8	 
 	T-4	Marcedes Lewis	JAC	16	8	 
 	T-4	Marshawn Lynch	BUF	15	8	 
 	T-7	Dallas Clark	IND	15	7	 
 	T-7	A Gonzalez	IND	16	7	 
 	T-7	Hines Ward	PIT	16	7	 
 	T-10	Jabar Gaffney	NE	16	6	 
 	T-10	Justin Gage	TEN	12	6	 
 	T-10	Ted Ginn Jr.	MIA	16	6	 
 	T-10	Santonio Holmes	PIT	15	6	 
 	T-10	Chad Johnson	CIN	13	6	 
 	T-10	Z Miller	       OAK	16	6	 
 	T-10	R Moss	        NE	16	6	 
 	T-10	Robert Royal	BUF	15	6	 
 	T-18	Ronald Curry	OAK	13	5	 
 	T-18	Houshmandzadeh	CIN	15	5	 
 	T-18	Andre Johnson	HOU	16	5	 
 	T-18	Chris Johnson	TEN	15	5	 
 	T-18	Matt Jones	        JAC	12	5	 
 	T-18	M Jones-Drew	JAC	16	5	 
 	T-18	Dustin Keller	NYJ	16	5	 
 	T-18	Dennis Northcutt	JAC	14	5	 
 	T-18	Tony Scheffler	DEN	13	5	 


NFC Leaders
Passes Dropped
 	Rank	Name	Team	Games	Drops	 
 	1	Terrell Owens	DAL	16	10	 
 	T-2	Calvin Johnson	DET	16	9	 
 	T-2	Roddy White	ATL	16	9	 
 	T-4	Marques Colston	NO	11	8	 
 	T-4	Greg Jennings	GB	16	8	 
 	T-4	Santana Moss	WAS	16	8	 
 	T-4	M Muhammad	CAR	16	8	 
 	T-8	Bernard Berrian	MIN	16	7	 
 	T-8	Rashied Davis	CHI	16	7	 
 	T-10	Donald Driver	GB	16	6	 
 	T-10	Warrick Dunn	TB	15	6	 
 	T-10	Bobby Engram	SEA	13	6	 
 	T-10	M Hedgecock	NYG	16	6	 
 	T-10	DeSean Jackson	PHI	16	6	 
 	T-10	Steven Jackson	STL	12	6	 
 	T-10	Koren Robinson	SEA	12	6	 
 	T-10	L.J. Smith	        PHI	13	6	 
 	T-10	Steve Smith	CAR	14	6	 
 	T-10	Amani Toomer	NYG	16	6	 
 	T-10	Bobby Wade	MIN	16	6

maybe this will help to end this debate about how good these guys are and how much will will suffer if we do not have them..

but then I doubt it..

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

found an interesting stat today that DEn had TWO players in the top 18 in the AFC for dropped passes both played less games than two their counter parts.

read it and weep.

http://sports.iwon.com/nfl/stats/lea...esdropped.html

Code:

Rank	Name	Team	Games	Drops	 
 	1	Braylon Edwards	CLE	16	16	 
 	2	Dwayne Bowe	KC	16	13	 
 	3	B Marshall	DEN	15	12	 
 	T-4	LColes	NYJ	16	8	 
 	T-4	Marcedes Lewis	JAC	16	8	 
 	T-4	Marshawn Lynch	BUF	15	8	 
 	T-7	Dallas Clark	IND	15	7	 
 	T-7	A Gonzalez	IND	16	7	 
 	T-7	Hines Ward	PIT	16	7	 
 	T-10	Jabar Gaffney	NE	16	6	 
 	T-10	Justin Gage	TEN	12	6	 
 	T-10	Ted Ginn Jr.	MIA	16	6	 
 	T-10	Santonio Holmes	PIT	15	6	 
 	T-10	Chad Johnson	CIN	13	6	 
 	T-10	Z Miller	       OAK	16	6	 
 	T-10	R Moss	        NE	16	6	 
 	T-10	Robert Royal	BUF	15	6	 
 	T-18	Ronald Curry	OAK	13	5	 
 	T-18	Houshmandzadeh	CIN	15	5	 
 	T-18	Andre Johnson	HOU	16	5	 
 	T-18	Chris Johnson	TEN	15	5	 
 	T-18	Matt Jones	        JAC	12	5	 
 	T-18	M Jones-Drew	JAC	16	5	 
 	T-18	Dustin Keller	NYJ	16	5	 
 	T-18	Dennis Northcutt	JAC	14	5	 
 	T-18	Tony Scheffler	DEN	13	5	 


NFC Leaders
Passes Dropped
 	Rank	Name	Team	Games	Drops	 
 	1	Terrell Owens	DAL	16	10	 
 	T-2	Calvin Johnson	DET	16	9	 
 	T-2	Roddy White	ATL	16	9	 
 	T-4	Marques Colston	NO	11	8	 
 	T-4	Greg Jennings	GB	16	8	 
 	T-4	Santana Moss	WAS	16	8	 
 	T-4	M Muhammad	CAR	16	8	 
 	T-8	Bernard Berrian	MIN	16	7	 
 	T-8	Rashied Davis	CHI	16	7	 
 	T-10	Donald Driver	GB	16	6	 
 	T-10	Warrick Dunn	TB	15	6	 
 	T-10	Bobby Engram	SEA	13	6	 
 	T-10	M Hedgecock	NYG	16	6	 
 	T-10	DeSean Jackson	PHI	16	6	 
 	T-10	Steven Jackson	STL	12	6	 
 	T-10	Koren Robinson	SEA	12	6	 
 	T-10	L.J. Smith	        PHI	13	6	 
 	T-10	Steve Smith	CAR	14	6	 
 	T-10	Amani Toomer	NYG	16	6	 
 	T-10	Bobby Wade	MIN	16	6

maybe this will help to end this debate about how good these guys are and how much will will suffer if we do not have them..

but then I doubt it..

You know those are from last year (2008), right? Half of the guys on that least aren't even on those teams anymore. Interesting to see such "high caliber guys" as Dallas Clark and Gregg Jennings up near the top, too. But wait, once again they were last year's numbers and add nothing to this conversation whatsoever. If you're going to try to use stats to discredit others and it up all day, please at least use valid ones. Thanks.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

You know those are from last year (2008), right? Half of the guys on that least aren't even on those teams anymore. Interesting to see such "high caliber guys" as Dallas Clark and Gregg Jennings up near the top, too. But wait, once again they were last year's numbers and add nothing to this conversation whatsoever. If you're going to try to use stats to discredit others and it up all day, please at least use valid ones. Thanks.

sorry thought they were last years. but the fact remains he drops a lot of passes. 7 this past year and had 53 not caught according to

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...rank=107&year=

Originally Posted by Jrwiz

sorry thought they were last years. but the fact remains he drops a lot of passes. 7 this past year and had 53 not caught according to

http://hosted.stats.com/fb/leaders.a...rank=107&year=

I wonder who the 53 not caught were about? Hmmm, Ummm, crap. I'll keep my mouth shut, but we all know the answer to who threw the ball to Marshall all season.