Thread: Brandon Marshall..Meh, who needs him?

Originally Posted by King87

I would sure love to see some great examples of this.

blah, blah, blah. Your argument holds no water, zero.

A more incoherent mismash of gibberish I haven't seen in a while.

Rod Smith was terrible because he "hit a woman?" He was a team leader for more than 10 years!

Wes Welker is a "trash talker" -- Say WHAT? And why would that be remotely relevant? That shows a "lack of character" does it? The champion trash-talker of all-time was Shannon Sharpe and he was the 3rd greatest player (behind Elway and T.D.) in Denver History and a sure Hall of Famer

And Marvin Harrison "probably shot somebody" -- except that he was never arrested tried or convicted for that and he's never been disciplined by the NFL at all. There's no proof at all that he ever committed a crime and police are NOT pressing any charges -- and all this happened AFTER his NFL career anyway -- so what difference does it make? Was he a "locker room cancer" or a model leader during his time in Indy?

The fact that you point to such irrelevancies as "trash-talking" -- as if that was a reason to get rid of somebody just proves that you are another one of those "fire the bum!" folks who seem to infest the fan-base of all sports teams these days. You'd have to ban about 1/3 of the league these days, because LOTS of them do something you don't approve of.

I pointed out all those guys because they are models of team leadership -- guys who do their jobs and you don't see them being disciplined like Marshall was for kicking a ball.

As for Marshall -- he's immature. That's why he sulked when the Broncos screwed him by refusing to give him a new contract -- at the same time admitting that they were taking advantage of the expiration of the CBA to avoid having to pay Marshall and Dumervil.

If there were a CBA both those guys would be UN-Restricted FAs, but since it's expired, they become RESTRICTED FAs and any team that signs them must fork over a 1st and a 3rd round draft pick to the Broncos. That may cost Marshall upwards of $10 million.

Normally, Denver would have signed BOTH players before the season or trade them -- because they'd be sure to lose them for nothing if they didn't. But, they could afford to wait and see because of the CBA expiration.

Marshall had the risk of injury all season long -- which would cost him tens of millions of dollars. I'd be pissed if I were in that situation too. But, that doesn't excuse his going on a pout-fest during practice.

He's still immature. Well, so what? You get that with most of the WRs in the league.

Good coaches get the most out of their players -- and bad ones pick fights with them. I stand by my statement.

How many rings does Randy Moss have? What conceivable point does that make? There's 22 guys out on that field. The Patriots didn't lose the SB because of Randy Moss any more than the Eagles lost because of T.O.

Today you need an elite QB and WR to compete for a championship as Pittsburgh and Arizona both proved last year. If the Steelers didn't have Santonio Holmes they would have lost -- despite having a superior defense, running game and team basically.

THe greatest LEADER in the NFL.... is the very one that a lot of people, incorrectly, accuse of "getting away with murder"..... Ray Lewis.

That guy is the spiritual leader, emotional leader, and personal leader of everyone he knows. That guy can get a team to run through a brick wall, and his teammates would do it for HIM.

Cugel, you said that great coaches win championships with arrogant players like Moss.

So, I'm still wondering, where da rings at?

Wes Welker runs his mouth more than any player on the football field. I've seen a lot of clips of him just running his mouth to the opposition. Remember when Buffalo gave him a cheap shot a year or two back and he was knocked out of the game? It was during the undefeated year when they won like 56 to 13 or something like that, there was a reason why Welker got that cheap shot, and it wasn't because he was a bigger threat to the Bills defense than Randy Moss.

Brandon's a victim because he isn't being paid big money but it's the best thing ever to sign him because guys like him win championships all the damn time....whoops.

You keep missing the point, and it's pretty sad.

You claimed that great or good coaches win championships with guys like Marshall, or Moss, or whomever. I made you a nice long list of stud wideouts who are arrogant that haven't won anything. And several of those guys are better WRs than Marshall is now...Do you get it now?

You basically said "We need to keep Marshall no matter what so we can win."

Win what?

Out of all the elite WRs I can think of about five that I would want on my team. Andre and Calvin Johnson, Fitzgerald and guys like that would be welcome on my team any day.

Guys like Brandon Marshall...well, to be blunt Ocho was a better WR when he went apeshit and I could have lived without him.

I hope that McDaniels builds you guys an offense like Pittsburgh has just so I can laugh at so many of the Marshall supporters.

Originally Posted by King87

I hope that McDaniels builds you guys an offense like Pittsburgh has just so I can laugh at so many of the Marshall supporters.

So, you're hoping McDaniels brings in a really good QB? Me too!

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

So, you're hoping McDaniels brings in a really good QB? Me too!

Ironically, Kyle Orton would probably do fine on Pittsburgh's offense. He's no Big Ben, but he's not bad at all.

But I was referring to a number one WR who was clutch and a good red zone threat, a number two with playmaking ability, multiple tight ends who can catch and block, a running game that is solid, a strong third WR and a few trick plays that can bust a game wide open.

Ironically (again), that's the type of offense that New England has had (mostly).

Originally Posted by red98

Kerry Byrne shows once again why stats don't tell the whole story.

Plaxico Burress won the NFC championship game against GB 2 yrs ago.

Last years SB MVP? Wide reciever Santonio Holmes. (there are 5 other recievers to be named SB MVP)

A dominant WR is an asset and while NE lost that SB, by 3 in the last minutes, it's crazy to say Moss and Welker were the problem.

yes, because the giants' dominant pass rush had nothing to do with winning that superbowl. plus, keep in mind that burress wasn't the receiver that made the play of the game. it was david tyree, who's far from a star.

and in regards to last year's game, the receivers for both teams did well. but it's hard for me to suggest holmes or ward won the game. roethlisberger's arm did. the QB and the D are the common factor in pittsburgh's last two SB wins.

Originally Posted by King87

Ironically, Kyle Orton would probably do fine on Pittsburgh's offense. He's no Big Ben, but he's not bad at all.

But I was referring to a number one WR who was clutch and a good red zone threat, a number two with playmaking ability, multiple tight ends who can catch and block, a running game that is solid, a strong third WR and a few trick plays that can bust a game wide open.

Ironically (again), that's the type of offense that New England has had (mostly).

You've got to be kidding. Love ya King, but it's obvious that you don't watch many Denver games. Roethlisberger is so good because he makes time for his WRs and helps out his O-line by scrambling. Orton is LESS MOBILE than Dan Marino or Drew Bledsoe and doesn't have the arm. Sad really. A pocket passer without much accuracy that doesn't know how to step up in the pocket.

The only time Orton is successful is if he has a perfectly clean pocket to throw from, can plant his feet, and his WRs are relatively stationary and not more than 10 yds downfield.

Originally Posted by King87

Ironically, Kyle Orton would probably do fine on Pittsburgh's offense. He's no Big Ben, but he's not bad at all.

Are you kidding me? How many times have we seen Big Ben make something out of nothing by scrambling for his life? I'm pretty sure they led the league in sacks given up two years ago, and their O-line hasn't really improved.

K.O. would have done well with Pitt's offense when Ben was a rookie and they ran the ball 40 times a game no matter what. Nowadays he'd get killed with his complete lack of ability to make something happen when the pocket breaks down.

Originally Posted by rationalfan

yes, because the giants' dominant pass rush had nothing to do with winning that superbowl. plus, keep in mind that burress wasn't the receiver that made the play of the game. it was david tyree, who's far from a star.

and in regards to last year's game, the receivers for both teams did well. but it's hard for me to suggest holmes or ward won the game. roethlisberger's arm did. the QB and the D are the common factor in pittsburgh's last two SB wins.

But it was Moss that caught the TD pass to put the Patriots ahead in the last minutes of the game, and it was Burress that caught the winning TD pas for the Giants.

Just as Roth made a good pass, Holmes made a better catch.

Originally Posted by Buff

Are you kidding me? How many times have we seen Big Ben make something out of nothing by scrambling for his life? I'm pretty sure they led the league in sacks given up two years ago, and their O-line hasn't really improved.

K.O. would have done well with Pitt's offense when Ben was a rookie and they ran the ball 40 times a game no matter what. Nowadays he'd get killed with his complete lack of ability to make something happen when the pocket breaks down.

And how many times did you see Big Ben get sacked because he held onto the ball too long? That offensive line is not as bad as they were made out to be and now people realize how much of it falls on Big Ben.

Orton would be fine. Would he do as well as Big Ben? No, but he'd be fine. That's another rant for another day/thread.

And Horse, I see more Denver games than you think. A perk of being a fat guy who eats about 20 bucks in food every Sunday at the same bar is that the bartenders and waiters (depending on where I sit, typically at the bar) put up the games you want to see. Also, and strangely enough, there have been times when Bears fans requested that the Broncos game be put up on one of the larger T.V.s so they could see how Orton was doing.

Originally Posted by King87

And how many times did you see Big Ben get sacked because he held onto the ball too long? That offensive line is not as bad as they were made out to be and now people realize how much of it falls on Big Ben.

Orton would be fine. Would he do as well as Big Ben? No, but he'd be fine. That's another rant for another day/thread.

And Horse, I see more Denver games than you think. A perk of being a fat guy who eats about 20 bucks in food every Sunday at the same bar is that the bartenders and waiters (depending on where I sit, typically at the bar) put up the games you want to see. Also, and strangely enough, there have been times when Bears fans requested that the Broncos game be put up on one of the larger T.V.s so they could see how Orton was doing.

Just a parting thought, King - Carson Palmer (who's never been accused of being a "scrambler") is more mobile than Orton, by far.

Originally Posted by King87

Ironically, Kyle Orton would probably do fine on Pittsburgh's offense. He's no Big Ben, but he's not bad at all.

But I was referring to a number one WR who was clutch and a good red zone threat, a number two with playmaking ability, multiple tight ends who can catch and block, a running game that is solid, a strong third WR and a few trick plays that can bust a game wide open.

Ironically (again), that's the type of offense that New England has had (mostly).

WOw.. King... you've gone off the deep end. Ben is a top QB in the league that makes plays with his feet as he does with his finding open receivers and making plays on the move. He spontaniously finds the open receiver while shrugging off defenders that have completely collapsed his bad OL.

Where does Kyle Orton provide ANY Of that kind of play to the offense? He doesn't make things happen with his feet, he doesn't see WRs when on the move, he doesn't find the open guy outside his first read, and he most certainly can not shrug off defenders that are hanging on him.

Orton would do horribly in Pitt.....remember Maddox? Orton is just another Maddox.

Originally Posted by King87

And how many times did you see Big Ben get sacked because he held onto the ball too long? That offensive line is not as bad as they were made out to be and now people realize how much of it falls on Big Ben.

Orton would be fine. Would he do as well as Big Ben? No, but he'd be fine. That's another rant for another day/thread.

And Horse, I see more Denver games than you think. A perk of being a fat guy who eats about 20 bucks in food every Sunday at the same bar is that the bartenders and waiters (depending on where I sit, typically at the bar) put up the games you want to see. Also, and strangely enough, there have been times when Bears fans requested that the Broncos game be put up on one of the larger T.V.s so they could see how Orton was doing.

Orton holds the ball way too long too. I think he'd be worse off in Pitt's offense. But, honestly, I think what you see is what you get with him. I don't envision him getting much better or much worse in any offense.

Originally Posted by Ravage!!!

Orton would do horribly in Pitt.....remember Maddox? Orton is just another Maddox.

Maddox had a better arm.

Originally Posted by HORSEPOWER 56

Maddox had a better arm.

and more mobile!