New Star Wars... I don't want to go in the spoiler thread so just tell me YES or NO if you liked it

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Originally Posted by MasterShake

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The Original Trilogy and even Prequel Trilogy set up the Skywalker family as possibly the most important people in the Universe. Anakin was labeled the "chosen one" who would bring balance to the Force, and he did but only after his son helped him redeem himself at the end of Return of the Jedi.

In The Force Awakens as far as we know The Skywalkers and their sacrifice to bring balance to the Force across 6 movies was still in play and Luke was in hiding but he left a map to himself for some odd reason. One could assume it was that he was training to be more of a badass then ever by going to the original Jedi temple and would return to cement the Skywalker legacy. At the same time we see Rey with a mysterious past who could be either a Solo/Kenobi/Skywalker herself and seems to have a connection with Luke's lightsaber and even flashes back to key events in his life when she encounters it. Meanwhile, Han Solo's kid has turned to the tutelage of a Dark Side user that saw the rise and fall of the Empire and could be an ancient evil the predates even the Sith! We establish that Leia is part of the Galactic Republic but still operates a "Resistance" under the table as the First Order scrambles to piece itself back together from the remnants of the Empire. The Resistance is dealt a huge blow with the loss of most of their capital system and fleet, and Rey defeats Kylo but loses Han Solo before traveling to meet Luke who stares at her with great apprehension opening the door for him to come back and kick all kinds of ass. Cool setup!

Then The Last Jedi basically comes in and says Rey is not important, the First Order is now the dominant military force in the galaxy once again, the Resistance are now the Rebels again, and Snoke was just a guy in the way of Kylo being the new bad guy so let's cut him in half. On top of all that, Luke tosses his lightsaber over his shoulder in the first scene in a questionable comedic moment and it turns out he just wants to die in seclusion. All of the mysteries setup in the Force Awakens mean nothing and The Last Jedi essentially resets the Galaxy to the same nature of the Galactic Civil War. In the end Luke does do some crazy ass powerful crap without leaving his island, but what we see of Luke is not a natural progression of his character from the original movies and even Hamill himself has bitched about it.

I know it sounds like I am ripping the movie, but I am merely laying out what I perceive as the big pain points some fans have with it. Now we are basically where Episode VII should have started us with only one movie left in this trilogy. They have a lot to clean up storywise and the Skywalker story as of right now basically ended with Luke giving his friends time to escape but still made the whole "Balance of the Force" narrative from the first movies seem shallow. Just my observation. I still mostly dug the new flick.

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i wish the people making the damn movies cared half as much as you do. . . :laugh:

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Originally Posted by dogfish

i wish the people making the damn movies cared half as much as you do. . . :laugh:

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Actually I think part of the problem is that fans are making the movies. Both JJ and Rian Johnson were fanboys and both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi seem like reactions to the films that came before them. Say what you want about George Lucas, but at least he was essentially a giant self funded studio unto himself with a great creative vision. The best Star Wars movie was were George had creative and story control and director Irvin Kershner executed his vision for him in The Empire Strikes Back. The new Art of The Last Jedi book has some of George Lucas' story treatments in them and they sound much more in line with want fans would've liked, but he needs a good director to usher forth his ideas.

I think it's telling that without George Lucas the only really universally acclaimed of the new films among fans was Rogue One, and I believe that is because it worked within the confines of the original stories without dismissing them. With the other two episodic movies so far we get a soft reboot of A New Hope and then a hodgepodge of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi with subversive elements. It ALMOST makes me long for the days about original stories involving trade disputes and podracing. :lol:

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Originally Posted by MasterShake

Actually I think part of the problem is that fans are making the movies. Both JJ and Rian Johnson were fanboys and both The Force Awakens and The Last Jedi seem like reactions to the films that came before them. Say what you want about George Lucas, but at least he was essentially a giant self funded studio unto himself with a great creative vision. The best Star Wars movie was were George had creative and story control and director Irvin Kershner executed his vision for him in The Empire Strikes Back. The new Art of The Last Jedi book has some of George Lucas' story treatments in them and they sound much more in line with want fans would've liked, but he needs a good director to usher forth his ideas.

I think it's telling that without George Lucas the only really universally acclaimed of the new films among fans was Rogue One, and I believe that is because it worked within the confines of the original stories without dismissing them. With the other two episodic movies so far we get a soft reboot of A New Hope and then a hodgepodge of Empire Strikes Back and Return of the Jedi with subversive elements. It ALMOST makes me long for the days about original stories involving trade disputes and podracing. :lol:

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No one will ever convince me Rian Johnson is a fan of star wars.

 

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/BlissfulTa...rm-max-1mb.gif

The Mouse has killed Star Wars.

People thought the prequels were bad. They have been redeemed through time and Disneys horrific management of one of the most beloved series of all time.

The Force Awakens felt forced and desperate to try and catch that Star Wars charm and it never achieves it.

Rogue One was nauseating, with the exception of the 2 minute end scene.

All i heard of the Last Jedi makes me nof want to see it. Critics gave it great reviews (i think most are afraid to pan a Disney flick because of fear of retaliation by Disney with their many, many movies), but real fandom has not been kind.

Solo? OMG it looks laughably bad, and the lead doesnt even rsemble a young Harrison Ford.

Once Disney purchased SW i knew it was the death knell, but i tried to ne optimistic.

It feels like i lost something, that Star Wars epic, and its like a childhood friend has been gruesomely murdered.

Shane im also with you on TWD. OMG it has become unbearable. Im so invested though i feel compelled to continue, but every episode is becoming more and more filler.

It's one of the greatest movies of all time.

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Originally Posted by Von Kinger

It's one of the greatest movies of all time.

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You're so full of shit. :laugh::laugh:

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Originally Posted by chazoe60

You're so full of shit. :laugh::laugh:

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Hey man, I ******* loved that movie. It's a strong push away from the old flicks, which are good but overrated because of nostalgia. We get new character storylines, the battles were incredible, the dialogue was actually good. And they made what I felt like was a logical end for Skywalker. The casino storyline was the only weak part of the film.

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Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Hey man, I ******* loved that movie. It's a strong push away from the old flicks, which are good but overrated because of nostalgia. We get new character storylines, the battles were incredible, the dialogue was actually good. And they made what I felt like was a logical end for Skywalker. The casino storyline was the only weak part of the film.

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Good for you bud.

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Originally Posted by chazoe60

Good for you bud.

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I just want to be happy, Chazoe.

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Originally Posted by Von Kinger

I just want to be happy, Chazoe.

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Then become a Rockies fan.

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Originally Posted by chazoe60

Then become a Rockies fan.

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I love the Dodgers.

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Originally Posted by Von Kinger

Hey man, I ******* loved that movie. It's a strong push away from the old flicks, which are good but overrated because of nostalgia. We get new character storylines, the battles were incredible, the dialogue was actually good. And they made what I felt like was a logical end for Skywalker. The casino storyline was the only weak part of the film.

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If by new story lines, you mean orphan kid, desert planet.... Ok, i"m not going to go any farther, since this isn't a spoiler thread, but geez, while I liked these two movies, they really are more retelling the same old story, with only slightly different characters, than the original two movies. I assume they went that route for the nostalgia factor, rather than the writers simply being incompetent and unimaginative.

Again, I enjoyed both movies. A couple weekends ago I rewatched force awakens and then Jedi, but the the parallels to the first two movies are really almost comical.

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Originally Posted by MasterShake

Just to clarify, those are not my criticisms personally but a summation of what I have gathered from friends and complaints on the Internet. I am of the mind that this all could very well wrap up nicely in Episode 9 and make The Last Jedi a retroactive great film instead of just the good film I think it is now.

The one question I will answer on my own behalf is the natural progression one. I think part of it is what we wanted to see, but it is also based on what we know to be true of the character. Luke was the definition of hope and morality for 3 movies and redeemed one of the most evil men in the Galaxy through sheer will. Even as a kid I never thought Luke would give up on Vader or turn his back on his friends. What they did in The Last Jedi as atypical of the character as written and expressed in the existing canon, but it came to a nice closure in my opinion and made Luke a more dynamic character. And you know

 

Force Ghost Luke will probably play a big part moving forward

We are hijacking this thread! Any further discussions should go back to the spoiler thread.

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I typed out a whole long response in spoiler tags before I read the hijack/go to other thread line. :(

I like this spoiler tag thing. Better than laser tag or red tag specials.

Hated Last Jedi. So much potential wasted.

1. Empire Strikes Back
2. Rogue One
3. A New Hope
4. Return of the Jedi
5. The Force Awakens
Huge Gap
6. Revenge of the Sith
Another big gap
All the rest

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Originally Posted by Tned

If by new story lines, you mean orphan kid, desert planet.... Ok, i"m not going to go any farther, since this isn't a spoiler thread, but geez, while I liked these two movies, they really are more retelling the same old story, with only slightly different characters, than the original two movies. I assume they went that route for the nostalgia factor, rather than the writers simply being incompetent and unimaginative.

Again, I enjoyed both movies. A couple weekends ago I rewatched force awakens and then Jedi, but the the parallels to the first two movies are really almost comical.

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We have a former stormtrooper who is accurate (hehe) a long term grudge match between two equally talented force users, almost all the old mainstay characters being deceased, and we'll get to actually see the long term war being fought. I think there are plenty of differences in the plot and the story. And they're all coming to fruition.