Point-Counter Point:Broncos: Deserve credit or just lucky?

Do the Broncos deserve credit for the wins or where they just lucky?

http://www.dailycamera.com/news/2007...line---19scpt/

Point-Counterpoint: Broncos: Deserve credit or just lucky?
By Chris Shelton (Contact), Ryan Thorburn (Contact)
Wednesday, September 19, 2007

Deserve credit

Ryan Thorburn

The Denver Broncos are 2-0 and alone at the top of the AFC West.

How they got there doesn't matter.

As Al Davis used to say a long, long time ago — "Just win, baby."

How about giving Jay Cutler some credit for executing the late drives under pressure to put Jason Elam in position for the game-winning field goals?

How about crediting Mike Shanahan for hitting a clutch three-run homer in free agency with the signings of Travis Henry, Brandon Stokley and Dan Graham?

And how about getting off D.J. Williams' back until an opposing offense scores more than 14 points?

That's right, Buffalo scored 14 points and Oakland's offense scored 12 points (the Raiders defense returned an interception back for six points and also had a safety in their 23-20 overtime loss at Invesco Field).

Yes, there are some major issues for Shanahan and his staff to address. Denver needs to shore up its run defense, and Cutler needs to cut down on his turnovers if this team is going to remain in contention.

But in the NFL every team has flaws, including the San Diego Chargers.

LaDainian Tomlinson has 68 yards rushing through two games. Philip Rivers doesn't appear to be much further along than Cutler. Norv Turner's past is already putting a lot of pressure on a team built to win the Super Bowl in the here and now.

The Broncos are going to find a way to beat Jacksonville this Sunday and they are going to have all of their weaknesses exposed the following week at Indianapolis.

And then we'll find out what this team is really all about when the Chargers visit Invesco Field.

Lucky

Chris Shelton

Denver's 2-0 start to the NFL season sure looks good, but it's a mirage.

How many times can the Broncos pull it out at the end the way they did the first two weeks?


Aside from the Shanahanigans used to psych out Sebastian Janikowski on Sunday and the fire drill to rescue the win over Buffalo in the season opener, there's not much to like about the start.

The Broncos allowed Buffalo running back Marshawn Lynch to gain 90 of this season's 154 yards against them, and Oakland's LaMont Jordan had 159 yards on the ground against Denver. Jordan has only rushed for more than 480 yards in one season in his six-year pro career.

If the Broncos can't keep someone such as Jordan in check, what do you expect Jacksonville's Fred Taylor to do to them this week? Taylor is closing in on 10,000 career rushing yards.

It doesn't get any easier for Denver, either, with a trip to Indianapolis next week and a home game against San Diego in the fifth week.

Colts running back Joseph Addai already has 199 rushing yards on a team that has Peyton Manning, and he did it against the Saints and Titans. San Diego brings last year's NFL most valuable player in running back LaDainian Tomlinson.

Then there's Jay Cutler, who threw a left-handed shovel pass at Buffalo that brought back memories of Jake Plummer's left-handed shovel pass for an interception. Cutler's passes continue to look thrown behind his receivers and he looks to be struggling with his decision making under pressure.

Let's save the euphoria over this 2-0 start until the Broncos pass some much tougher tests in the next three games.

Good find TX


I agree with both of them.

I don't how you can because they are so different.

Shelton has some good points but I think he's dead wrong on Jay. I mean come on visions of Jake Plummer when Jay had that little left handed shuffle pass? I don't think so. Jay is indecisive? I don't agree with that. An indecisive quarterback isn't going march a team down the field for game winning scores.

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Originally Posted by TXBRONC

I don't how you can because they are so different.

Shelton has some good points but I think he's dead wrong on Jay. I mean come on visions of Jake Plummer when Jay had that little left handed shuffle pass? I don't think so. Jay is indecisive? I don't agree with that. An indecisive quarterback isn't going march a team down the field for game winning scores.

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Sorry but both have good points.

I think Jay will come out of it, but having a tad bit more time to get the ball of with out having a DL guy in your face mask will not hurt either.

For the matter in almost every game since the PIT playoff game.

For all thats made about their defense, theyve only yielded 1 TD in each game. I agree though that I hope they improve. But while the defense hasnt yielded many points, the offense has been able to move the ball. If they continue to move the ball like that, the points should come in greater abundance.

yay "Shanahanigans"

Haha...nice

If the left-handed shovel pass was the one he did that was incomplete to an inelligible receiver, that was a heady play, because he was just trying to avoid the sack, not get a completion. I don't recall that being left-handed, though, so he might be talking about something else.

The thing with both views (and I'm sure it's intentional), is that they're polar opposites of one another. It makes for an interesting point-counterpoint, but the truth is likely in the less sensational middle.

Like Bowlen says, he's happy with the teams progress, as it's still learning, yet it's also winning at the same time, which is rare. Take San Diego, with all the same talented players as last season, yet struggling to get their offense in gear as they adjust to new coaching. If the Bears offense could be just decent, they could easily be 0-2 right now.

And like the Ferrari analogy on individual players when Brandon Marshall was injured, the same can be said of teams. There are teams that can only win when everything's clicking on all cylinders, and there are teams that can win ugly. This team can definitely win ugly. :woot:

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Lucky

Chris Shelton

Denver's 2-0 start to the NFL season sure looks good, but it's a mirage.

How many times can the Broncos pull it out at the end the way they did the first two weeks?

Aside from the Shanahanigans used to psych out Sebastian Janikowski on Sunday and the fire drill to rescue the win over Buffalo in the season opener, there's not much to like about the start.

The Broncos allowed Buffalo running back Marshawn Lynch to gain 90 of this season's 154 yards against them, and Oakland's LaMont Jordan had 159 yards on the ground against Denver. Jordan has only rushed for more than 480 yards in one season in his six-year pro career.

If the Broncos can't keep someone such as Jordan in check, what do you expect Jacksonville's Fred Taylor to do to them this week? Taylor is closing in on 10,000 career rushing yards.

It doesn't get any easier for Denver, either, with a trip to Indianapolis next week and a home game against San Diego in the fifth week.

Colts running back Joseph Addai already has 199 rushing yards on a team that has Peyton Manning, and he did it against the Saints and Titans. San Diego brings last year's NFL most valuable player in running back LaDainian Tomlinson.

Then there's Jay Cutler, who threw a left-handed shovel pass at Buffalo that brought back memories of Jake Plummer's left-handed shovel pass for an interception. Cutler's passes continue to look thrown behind his receivers and he looks to be struggling with his decision making under pressure.

Let's save the euphoria over this 2-0 start until the Broncos pass some much tougher tests in the next three games.

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If the media (Shelton) is'nt whining about one thing (losing), their whining about something else (winning).:rolleyes:

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If the Broncos can't keep someone such as Jordan in check, what do you expect Jacksonville's Fred Taylor to do to them this week? Taylor is closing in on 10,000 career rushing yards.

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Wha??

You meen the same Fred"Tender To The Touch"Taylor that has a eye popping 73 total yards rushing in two games! :ahhhhh:

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San Diego brings last year's NFL most valuable player in running back LaDainian Tomlinson.

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And . . .































He has 68 total yards rushing! (That's a 1.9 ypc on the rictor scale) :lol:

Hey, you gotta take your shots on L.T. when ya gett'um! ;)

A little perspective on "lucky" teams....

In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens had 6 games where they failed to score a TD.

In case you may have forgotten, that's the year they won the Super Bowl.

My point? As golf great Gary Player once said....

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

You can say the Broncos have been lucky, but the bottom line is, they made their own luck by working hard. We have the #1 offense in the NFL and the #2 defense.

While no one would argue that we've left numerous opportunities to put opponents away on the field, when you are ranked that high, you're creating situations where good things happen.

Sometimes, even "lucky" things.

Eventually, that hard work is going to produce wins where there can be no question about luck or talent.

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Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman

A little perspective on "lucky" teams....

In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens had 6 games where they failed to score a TD.

In case you may have forgotten, that's the year they won the Super Bowl.

My point? As golf great Gary Player once said....

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

You can say the Broncos have been lucky, but the bottom line is, they made their own luck by working hard. We have the #1 offense in the NFL and the #2 defense.

While no one would argue that we've left numerous opportunities to put opponents away on the field, when you are ranked that high, you're creating situations where good things happen.

Sometimes, even "lucky" things.

Eventually, that hard work is going to produce wins where there can be no question about luck or talent.

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In just every game mistakes will be made and opportunities will arise the team that's better advantage of there opponents miscues usually wins the game.

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Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman

A little perspective on "lucky" teams....

In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens had 6 games where they failed to score a TD.

In case you may have forgotten, that's the year they won the Super Bowl.

My point? As golf great Gary Player once said....

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

You can say the Broncos have been lucky, but the bottom line is, they made their own luck by working hard. We have the #1 offense in the NFL and the #2 defense.

While no one would argue that we've left numerous opportunities to put opponents away on the field, when you are ranked that high, you're creating situations where good things happen.

Sometimes, even "lucky" things.

Eventually, that hard work is going to produce wins where there can be no question about luck or talent.

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Nice post, man! :salute:

Shanny and the Broncos work hard to put themselves in situations where they have an opportunity to win. Contrast that to the Bills who, on offense, tried to play it safe on offense, because they were trying not to lose.

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Originally Posted by lex

For all thats made about their defense, theyve only yielded 1 TD in each game. I agree though that I hope they improve. But while the defense hasnt yielded many points, the offense has been able to move the ball. If they continue to move the ball like that, the points should come in greater abundance.

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Shanahan said that in an other article I read just a day or two ago.

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Originally Posted by broncos_mtnman

A little perspective on "lucky" teams....

In 2000, the Baltimore Ravens had 6 games where they failed to score a TD.

In case you may have forgotten, that's the year they won the Super Bowl.

My point? As golf great Gary Player once said....

The harder you work, the luckier you get.

You can say the Broncos have been lucky, but the bottom line is, they made their own luck by working hard. We have the #1 offense in the NFL and the #2 defense.

While no one would argue that we've left numerous opportunities to put opponents away on the field, when you are ranked that high, you're creating situations where good things happen.

Sometimes, even "lucky" things.

Eventually, that hard work is going to produce wins where there can be no question about luck or talent.

---

Not picking on you, but did YOU really just write that?
:laugh:

Its funny how the tide has turned....season has just about started the same...offense has struggled to score, but its okay because in "stats" we are NUMBER 1 !!!

Again not picking on YOU but just realize its 2 weeks into the season. :first:

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Originally Posted by Watchthemiddle

Not picking on you, but did YOU really just write that?
:laugh:

Its funny how the tide has turned....season has just about started the same...offense has struggled to score, but its okay because in "stats" we are NUMBER 1 !!!

Again not picking on YOU but just realize its 2 weeks into the season. :first:

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No there are some big differences WTM. Last year we struggled to score because we struggled to move the ball. The problem with scoring this year is that we we missing opportunities when we are in the red zone, but we are moving the ball. Last year close games like these last we didn't win.

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Originally Posted by TXBRONC

No there are some big differences WTM. Last year we struggled to score because we struggled to move the ball. The problem with scoring this year is that we we missing opportunities when we are in the red zone, but we are moving the ball. Last year close games like these last we didn't win.

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Its all relative. Every SINGLE year...whether it be last 2006. 05, 04, 03 ,02 etc...since the Super Bowl years we have failed to be a dominant force in the redzone. Its still that way.

I hate to say it ( because I don't want to start a Jake war ) but no one can say that it wasnt' the same under him. We moved the ball effectively from the 20-20 and then stalled.

I didn't have and answer for it then whether it be the QB, play calling, or personel..I still don't.

I just want to see an offense with Javon, Marshall, Graham, Henry, Sheffler, Stokley...and CUtler to put up more.