Conversation Between NightTrainLayne and Poet

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  1. Well, every newspaper has ran stories that were wrong, and someone knew it. Every (large) media outlet, too. Almost every large religious institution has lied and had corruption to it. Almost every sector of the government, even in periods of prosperity. I think we would have to throw away pretty much everything. I am an institutionalist at heart. I fall in line with "A Republic, if you can keep it," type of guy. Organizations like the SPLC are part of the Republic. They are not without sin. But I will say that many organizations are tied up in using most of the money they get on just existing. Does that mean SPLC hasn't taken things a step too far? No.

    I'm still a member of The Federalist Society. They knowingly invite and interact with federal and even SCOTUS judges, even they know it's a conflict of interest for the most obvious of reasons. I don't disavow The Federalist Society, nor the judges who interact with them.

    I'm just a small individual, NTL. Do you know what it would mean for a guy like me to work at the SPLC? Just to get that outlet to help people? An organization that at least has it's scope and view of the law correct, who collects GOOD data and has its hand in actual reform. It doesn't mean I'm devoid of disappointment. I just think needing to do better doesn't mean you need to abolish something.

    I will always treasure these conversations. You flatter me with steel sharpening steel. I feel more like cardboard, to be honest.
  2. I throw out "years of service" when it is bound up with outright lies. The means don't justify the ends.

    I'm happy to listen to and interact with opposing view-points. There's no way to interact positively with lies, mis-statements and half-truths.
  3. How do you throw out years of service? I also won't lie to you, I'm skeptical of the piece in my own right. I've heard similar accusations about groups that I have had personal dealings with, that I know. Maybe that's the real goal - not yours or mine but maybe we're so splintered because we tune out other sources we dislike? I can't even front that I take much from Fox News seriously. I guess in my defense it' s a known fact that they're absurdly misleading as borne out of independent studies on accuracy and truthfulness.

    Oh NTL, maybe one day it will get better.
  4. If you read the New Yorker piece and still feel supportive of them, then I don't have much more of a response.

    To me, and that piece illustrates this all too well, they are about raising money. Their goal is raising money, not protecting the impoverished or marginalized.

    To that end, this kind of "report", splashed all over major media outlets is precisely designed to drive fund-raising efforts that will follow-on.

    Does that mean nothing they do is "good". Nah. But I take a huge dose of skepticism with anything they report.
  5. I was worried that I had irked you. I am really trying to not irk anyone, and while I wouldn't have cared a great deal -for you, always I would care you are my dear friend- I'm trying to better myself. A newer, softer King. I read the article. What I will say is this - they have a long and positive track record. I don't doubt that they've stumbled. But that end of the article shows that they're still doing what they're doing. I don't toss out a lot of good because of some bad. I'd also like to hear their response.
  6. BTW, you didn't irk me. I was hoping to help you make your argument stronger. "Iron sharpens Iron" sort of thing.

    Stephen Miller is an ugly person.
  7. The SPLC is not a great legal organization.

    They are instead, a money-raising racket masquerading as some kind of Civil Rights Organization.

    Read this piece from the New Yorker (of all places). It's devastating.
  8. They should have credibility with you. They're a great legal organization that's factually strong. Sorry if I irked you though. I'll keep your preference in mind - I try not to cite to sources that kill discussions. Unfortunately it gets harder every day.
  9. I despise Trump.

    I especially despise Stephen Miller and his Nativist policies/efforts.

    That being said, you better come with something stronger than SPLC. When I see them cited I immediately call into question any argument utilizing them. They don't have zero credibility with me, they actually have negative credibility. I've seen them all too often smear groups and people in terribly unfair ways.

    They're probably right on Miller on balance, but if so there's bound to be better sources of that information.

    I don't know if it's actually possible for there to be a worse candidate than Trump at this point.
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