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getlynched47
12-29-2009, 05:17 PM
With the Pro-Bowl roster set to be announced today at 5:00 PM MT, who do you think is going to the Pro Bowl from the Broncos?

I'm saying that Elvis Dumervil, Champ Bailey, and Brian Dawkins will represent us at the Pro-Bowl. Champ Bailey was #1 in AFC Cornerback voting on ESPN's last Pro-Bowl voting update. Brian Dawkins was #2 in AFC Safeties. Dumervil was #2 as well.

I also predict that Brandon Marshall and DJ Williams have an outside chance to get in. Marshall should go in, but there is a log-jam of wide receivers worthy of going, such as Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, and Randy Moss.

I do not believe Ryan Clady will get into the Pro-Bowl, because he has given up 7 sacks this season and is a big part of our offensive line collapse. He hasn't played well as of late.

EDIT:

http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d8155c2fa&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

Brandon Marshall is the #3 Receiver
Ryan Clady is the #2 Offensive Tackle
Elvis Dumervil is the #1 Outer Linebacker
Champ Bailey is the #3 Cornerback
Brian Dawkins is the #1 Strong Safety

And there are your Pro-Bowlers. Can we get a moderator to change the name of this thread to "Denver Broncos Pro-Bowlers"?? Thank you

pnbronco
12-29-2009, 05:25 PM
Lynch, that would be my guesses as well.

Dawkins, Bailey and Dumerville with Marshall as a outside chance. I can see if he doesn't get picked to be a top runner up. I really hope Doom gets in this year.

GEM
12-29-2009, 05:26 PM
Doom better go, he's leading the entire league in sacks. I had wondered about Bailey until Sunday. He completely shut DeSean down. Not an easy feat. Dawkins should be a go. DJ might get a whiff, but he's like 5 in the league in overall tackles (solo, assisted, etc)so there are some guys that are playing better, plus he doesn't have the name recognition of a Ray Lewis type.

broncofaninfla
12-29-2009, 05:30 PM
Doom, Dawkins, Bailey and Marshall. I give an outside chance to DJ Williams.

ikillz0mbies
12-29-2009, 05:34 PM
The players I think that could make it are Brian Dawkins, Champ Bailey, Elvis Dumervil, and Brandon Marshall.

Dumervil has been great this season and leads the league in sacks so he should be a shoe in.

As for Marshall, I think he could sneak in there. He is in the top 5 in catches IIRC.

broken12
12-29-2009, 05:35 PM
doom, marshall maybe, champ! v jackson, r wayne, houston texans wr, are some recievers that should be infront of marshall for sure!

Poet
12-29-2009, 05:40 PM
Marshall should go, not sure on Champ.

broken12
12-29-2009, 05:44 PM
104.3 the fan is pretty good right now

jjtodd5
12-29-2009, 05:44 PM
marshall will get in. the 21 catch game near the end of voting should push him over the top. dumerville, champ, and dawkins should all get in. I hope dj williams and clady do but I doubt it. Prater should go but I doubt he will.

broken12
12-29-2009, 05:52 PM
were an 8-8 team we should get 2 maybe three guys, that 21 catch game was nothing but short screens, wasnt anything spectacular really, didnt even win the game with a performance like that! but i think williams gets in over dawkins, remember ed reed will lock up a spot at safety! offensively scoring 18 pts a game maybe marshall but i wouldnt be surprised if he dont get in!

SOCALORADO.
12-29-2009, 05:54 PM
Marshall should go, not sure on Champ.

Champ shouldnt even sniff the Pro Bowl.
Doom, Marshall and thats about it.

GEM
12-29-2009, 06:20 PM
104.3 the fan is pretty good right now

And this has what to do with the thread?

topscribe
12-29-2009, 06:21 PM
Mitch Berger.

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T.K.O.
12-29-2009, 06:24 PM
it doesnt matter....the broncos players selected wont play in the pro bowl the league already said the superbowl teams will not be sending their players to the probowl !:beer::D:salute:
and yes i think marshall and doom are getting an invite maybe x as well

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:01 PM
Apparently Brandon Marshall made it as the #3 receiver

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Elvis Dumervil made it also

Champ Bailey is the #3 Cornerback

JDL
12-29-2009, 07:02 PM
With the Pro-Bowl roster set to be announced today at 5:00 PM MT, who do you think is going to the Pro Bowl from the Broncos?

I'm saying that Elvis Dumervil, Champ Bailey, and Brian Dawkins will represent us at the Pro-Bowl. Champ Bailey was #1 in AFC Cornerback voting on ESPN's last Pro-Bowl voting update. Brian Dawkins was #2 in AFC Safeties. Dumervil was #2 as well.

I also predict that Brandon Marshall and DJ Williams have an outside chance to get in. Marshall should go in, but there is a log-jam of wide receivers worthy of going, such as Andre Johnson, Wes Welker, Reggie Wayne, and Randy Moss.

I do not believe Ryan Clady will get into the Pro-Bowl, because he has given up 7 sacks this season and is a big part of our offensive line collapse. He hasn't played well as of late.

Actually, it is a bit of a sham to me that Bailey makes it this year. The reason being that 1) He really hasn't been in pro bowl form this year and 2) Andre Goodman has outplayed him this year and has played just phenomenal opposite Bailey, actually causing teams to start going after Bailey more.

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:02 PM
Brian Dawkins is the #1 Strong Safety!!!

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:03 PM
Actually, it is a bit of a sham to me that Bailey makes it this year. The reason being that 1) He really hasn't been in pro bowl form this year and 2) Andre Goodman has outplayed him this year and has played just phenomenal opposite Bailey, actually causing teams to start going after Bailey more.

Lol sure :rolleyes:

Champ Bailey has been phenomenal this season. Sure he's been beaten more than usual, and has had a few bad games....but he's been money.

He's shut down various receivers.

He's still a Pro-Bowler, and 100x better than Andre Goodman.

JDL
12-29-2009, 07:05 PM
Lol sure :rolleyes:

Champ Bailey has been phenomenal this season. Sure he's been beaten more than usual, and has had a few bad games....but he's been money.

He's shut down various receivers.

He's still a Pro-Bowler, and 100x better than Andre Goodman.

He's better than Goodman, but has NOT played better than him this year... there is a big difference. But, sure, suck on a guys nuts because of name recognition and rep. :coffee:

QBs have targeted Bailey A LOT more and they have completed a high % against him versus other CBs in the league.

GEM
12-29-2009, 07:10 PM
Bailey just shut down one of the most dynamic young receivers in the game. I'll cut him some slack. I haven't seen many CB's have much luck with that.

Clady, Dawk and Doom are starters. :rockon: 5 on the roster...when was the last time that happened? :laugh: Good job guys!

Poet
12-29-2009, 07:12 PM
Bailey should not have made it. He's still a good CB, but he's not a top three corner in the AFC. He got it based on his name, the other guys you got were legit, but that's a shame.

Nomad
12-29-2009, 07:14 PM
Though I'm not very fond of the Pro Bowl, congrats to the BRONCOS who made the team!!


http://www.nfl.com/probowl/story?id=09000d5d8155c2fa&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:14 PM
He's better than Goodman, but has NOT played better than him this year... there is a big difference. But, sure, suck on a guys nuts because of name recognition and rep. :coffee:

QBs have targeted Bailey A LOT more and they have completed a high % against him versus other CBs in the league.

Oh brother. You sure know your shit, don't ya??

Versus Nnamdi Asomugha, opposing Quarterbacks have completed 77.8 % of passes. He's been thrown at 27 times and 21 passes have been completed against him for 246 yards. 11 yards per catch

Versus Champ Bailey, opposing Quarterbacks have completed 53.8% of passes. He's been thrown at 78 times and 42 of those have been completed against him for 465 yards. 11 yards per catch

Versus Andre Goodman, opposing Quarterbacks have completed 50% of passes. He's been thrown at 72 times and 36 of those have been completed against him for 491 yards. 14 yards per catch

Goodman has been solid, but not better than Champ Bailey. I will say, though, that Darrelle Revis is in a class of his own. The guy is the best cornerback in the NFL. Period. Not Asomugha, Revis.

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:17 PM
QBs have targeted Bailey A LOT more and they have completed a high % against him versus other CBs in the league.

BTW, there are 85 cornerbacks that give up a higher percentage of completions ahead of Champ Bailey. So yeah you're a little wrong on that one.

roomemp
12-29-2009, 07:24 PM
were an 8-8 team we should get 2 maybe three guys, that 21 catch game was nothing but short screens, wasnt anything spectacular really, didnt even win the game with a performance like that! but i think williams gets in over dawkins, remember ed reed will lock up a spot at safety! offensively scoring 18 pts a game maybe marshall but i wouldnt be surprised if he dont get in!

So unspectacular that even the all time great Jerry Rice had a 21 catch game......Oh wait

Denver Native (Carol)
12-29-2009, 07:26 PM
CONGRATS to Ryan Clady, Brandon Marshall, Brian Dawkins, Elvis Doom, and Champ :salute:

WHOA - and I just heard NO Cincinnati Bengals made it - that is RIDICULOUS :tsk:

roomemp
12-29-2009, 07:26 PM
Bailey should not have made it. He's still a good CB, but he's not a top three corner in the AFC. He got it based on his name, the other guys you got were legit, but that's a shame.

Bailey use to be unbelievable in his prime.....Now he is only awesome :elefant:

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:32 PM
Not to be a Debbie-Downer, but anybody else kind of worried that Marshall and Dumervil made the Pro-Bowl? It gives them a lot more ammunition in contract talks to raise their asking prices even further.

That could potentially make it very difficult, maybe impossible, to retain both of them.

Sorry to ruin the good news, I really didn't want to :(

Poet
12-29-2009, 07:35 PM
Bailey use to be unbelievable in his prime.....Now he is only awesome :elefant:

First ballot hall of famer, possibly the best of all time.:salute:

roomemp
12-29-2009, 07:37 PM
Not to be a Debbie-Downer, but anybody else kind of worried that Marshall and Dumervil made the Pro-Bowl? It gives them a lot more ammunition in contract talks to raise their asking prices even further.

That could potentially make it very difficult, maybe impossible, to retain both of them.

Sorry to ruin the good news, I really didn't want to :(


I don't think it really raises it anymore than it already is.......Marshall is going to want to be the highest paid WR and Doom is probably going to demand top 3 OLB $. I wouldn't be suprised if we lose one or both of them. I hope we sign Marshall long term and tag Doom though

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 07:38 PM
First ballot hall of famer, possibly the best of all time.:salute:

Sorry that Leon Hall/Jonathan Joseph got snubbed :(

If anything, one of them should've made it over Asomugha :D

But seriously, they are possibly the best, young cornerback tandem in the entire NFL. The Bengals have a lot to be excited about with those two.

roomemp
12-29-2009, 07:40 PM
First ballot hall of famer, possibly the best of all time.:salute:

I don't think he is the best of all time but he is definatly top 5. I say we get one more year out of him at corner then transition him to FS ala Woodson. Dude would be a great safety for us eventually once he loses a step

roomemp
12-29-2009, 07:42 PM
Sorry that Leon Hall/Jonathan Joseph got snubbed :(

If anything, one of them should've made it over Asomugha :D

But seriously, they are possibly the best, young cornerback tandem in the entire NFL. The Bengals have a lot to be excited about with those two.

A lot of people just get snubbed......Example....Clady last year

Poet
12-29-2009, 07:48 PM
Wes Welker over Ocho makes me puke-o.

dogfish
12-29-2009, 08:02 PM
Wes Welker over Ocho makes me puke-o.

maybe you guys can beat them in the playoffs, and that will make you feel better about it. . .


i really don't care that much about the pro bowl, but it is nice to see some of my boys getting their props. . . i think DJ could easily have gone as well, but we can't complain when we have five guys in there. . . it's ironic that clady didn't make it last year, even though he played far better overall than he did this season. . . not that he was bad this year, and protecting orton is far more challenging than protecting cutler, but dude got massively gipped last year. . .

Poet
12-29-2009, 08:07 PM
maybe you guys can beat them in the playoffs, and that will make you feel better about it. . .


i really don't care that much about the pro bowl, but it is nice to see some of my boys getting their props. . . i think DJ could easily have gone as well, but we can't complain when we have five guys in there. . . it's ironic that clady didn't make it last year, even though he played far better overall than he did this season. . . not that he was bad this year, and protecting orton is far more challenging than protecting cutler, but dude got massively gipped last year. . .

Moss over Ocho makes sense, Wes Welker is a slot receiver, Ocho is the only reliable target we have and beats double coverage consistently.

Oh wellz.

Clady got ripped off last year, especially when you consider that he got beat out by guys who were strictly worse than him.

pnbronco
12-29-2009, 08:20 PM
CONGRATS to Ryan Clady, Brandon Marshall, Brian Dawkins, Elvis Doom, and Champ :salute:

WHOA - and I just heard NO Cincinnati Bengals made it - that is RIDICULOUS :tsk:

Wow I can't believe we got 5 guys in, that's great!

I have to agree to not have one Bengal in is ridiculous. Dog's right beat them in the playoffs

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 08:23 PM
First, let me acknowledge the fact that Champ Bailey has given up the crown for best cornerback in the NFL to the extremely-talented Darrelle Revis. Even though that is the case, that doesn't necessarily mean that Champ Bailey isn't any good.

I'm reading a lot of "Champ got in based on name" bullcrap for the Pro Bowl and those are ignorant, misinformed statements. Champ Bailey still has "it", and while he doesn't collect a ton of interceptions, he's still one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. And I'm going to show you why.

First off, I've heard that either Leon Hall or Jonathan Joseph from Cincinnati should've made it over Champ Bailey because they're "better". LOL! Here are the stats, and stats don't lie:

Champ Bailey- 60 tackles. Thrown at 78 times, 42 of those were completed (53.8%) for 465 yards (11.1 yards per catch). Has allowed 141 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 35 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

These are Champ's statistics, and we'll compare them to some cornerbacks who are supposedly "better" than Champ.

First off is Leon Hall: 51 tackles, thrown at 82 times and 43 of those were completed (52.4%) for 506 yards (11.8 yards per catch). Has allowed 179 yards after catch. Longest catch given up was 38 yards. He's given up 3 TDs.

Next, Jonathan Joseph: 54 tackles. Thrown at 96 times, 56 of those were completed (58.3%) for 690 yards (12.3 yards per catch). Has allowed 224 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 59 yards and he's given up 3 touchdowns.

Champ Bailey is better in more statistical categories when compared head-to-head with both of them. I'm not saying he's better in all facets, but he's better overall (evidently).

Now let's compare to Nnamdi Asomugha: 30 tackles. Thrown at 27 times, 21 of those were completed (77.8%) for 246 yards (11.7 yards per catch). Has allowed 119 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 49 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

Yes, my friends, Champ Bailey is still better than Nnamdi Asomugha. Even though Asomugha is challenged much less, Champ beats him.

And, finally, let's compare Champ to the great Charles Woodson:65 tackles. Thrown at 70 times, 37 of those were completed (52.9%) for 429 yards (11.6 yards per catch). Has allowed 168 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 68 yards and he's given up 5 touchdowns.

There's talk that Charles Woodson is going to be the NFL defensive player of the year, but Champ Bailey is pretty close statistically to everything Charles Woodson has done. I'm not saying Champ Bailey should be the NFL Defensive Player of the Year (that belongs to Darrelle Revis because the guy is a freak and the definition of a shut-down cornerback), but Champ deserves respect.

He's still one of the top cornerbacks in the entire NFL, and he is in the Pro Bowl for many good reasons. His name did not get him into the Pro Bowl, his play did.

Poet
12-29-2009, 08:25 PM
Leon Hall gives up less passes than Bailey. Hall is the better CB. Hall also plays on a team that lost it's best pass rusher, Bailey does not. Hall has faced superior competition at the WR position. You don't believe it, go look through the teams and the WR's that they've faced.

I'm not going to make this into a ZOMG we got robbed and Bailey sux thread, but Hall is the superior CB.

I've watched enough Bronco and Bengals games to know.

GEM
12-29-2009, 08:42 PM
Bailey use to be unbelievable in his prime.....Now he is only awesome :elefant:

I'll take awesome over Bly any day of the week!! :D

JDL
12-29-2009, 08:52 PM
First, let me acknowledge the fact that Champ Bailey has given up the crown for best cornerback in the NFL to the extremely-talented Darrelle Revis. Even though that is the case, that doesn't necessarily mean that Champ Bailey isn't any good.

I'm reading a lot of "Champ got in based on name" bullcrap for the Pro Bowl and those are ignorant, misinformed statements. Champ Bailey still has "it", and while he doesn't collect a ton of interceptions, he's still one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. And I'm going to show you why.

First off, I've heard that either Leon Hall or Jonathan Joseph from Cincinnati should've made it over Champ Bailey because they're "better". LOL! Here are the stats, and stats don't lie:

Champ Bailey- 60 tackles. Thrown at 78 times, 42 of those were completed (53.8%) for 465 yards (11.1 yards per catch). Has allowed 141 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 35 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

These are Champ's statistics, and we'll compare them to some cornerbacks who are supposedly "better" than Champ.

First off is Leon Hall: 51 tackles, thrown at 82 times and 43 of those were completed (52.4%) for 506 yards (11.8 yards per catch). Has allowed 179 yards after catch. Longest catch given up was 38 yards. He's given up 3 TDs.

Next, Jonathan Joseph: 54 tackles. Thrown at 96 times, 56 of those were completed (58.3%) for 690 yards (12.3 yards per catch). Has allowed 224 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 59 yards and he's given up 3 touchdowns.

Champ Bailey is better in more statistical categories when compared head-to-head with both of them. I'm not saying he's better in all facets, but he's better overall (evidently).

Now let's compare to Nnamdi Asomugha: 30 tackles. Thrown at 27 times, 21 of those were completed (77.8%) for 246 yards (11.7 yards per catch). Has allowed 119 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 49 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

Yes, my friends, Champ Bailey is still better than Nnamdi Asomugha. Even though Asomugha is challenged much less, Champ beats him.

And, finally, let's compare Champ to the great Charles Woodson:65 tackles. Thrown at 70 times, 37 of those were completed (52.9%) for 429 yards (11.6 yards per catch). Has allowed 168 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 68 yards and he's given up 5 touchdowns.

There's talk that Charles Woodson is going to be the NFL defensive player of the year, but Champ Bailey is pretty close statistically to everything Charles Woodson has done. I'm not saying Champ Bailey should be the NFL Defensive Player of the Year (that belongs to Darrelle Revis because the guy is a freak and the definition of a shut-down cornerback), but Champ deserves respect.

He's still one of the top cornerbacks in the entire NFL, and he is in the Pro Bowl for many good reasons. His name did not get him into the Pro Bowl, his play did.

1st if you are going to compare CBs, you shouldn't cherry pick ... 1st) players and 2nd) stats... give the complete picture

Leon Hall's numbers above are a wash... but he was MUCH better when you consider he had FAR more big plays including 6INTs and 2FF. Bailey has improved his numbers the last two weeks, just not enough to forget that he really was a non-factor many weeks.

LEON HALL 67 TACKLES 30PDs 6INTs 2FF
JONATHAN JOSEPH 66 TACKLES 26PDs 6INTs 1FF 1TD
CHAMP BAILEY 72 TACKLES 13PDs 3INTs 1FF

Sorry, Bailey is better in MORE statistical categories than both??? where are you getting that??? ... their team has been better and it is all more than enough to warrant his selection over Bailey. This is just two examples. You didn't provide a complete listing... Bailey 2nd in the AFC in % comp against?? is that why nobody else was included?

Charles Woodson? He forced 13 turnovers! 8INTs/4FF/1FR and 2TDs. Let's not start saying Bailey had a comparable year to that. That is idiotic. He had a DPOY-type season and made many game changing plays for his team (Which has helped them to the playoffs.)

Bailey for most of the year has played soft coverage (really the last two games have been BY FAR his most impressive of the year and it has improved his numbers - including those above, but not enough... imo to discount 13 weeks of soft play) and given up more plays than usual while failing to come up with big plays himself.

Playing CB in the NFL is about not giving up big plays and making big plays. Goodman, imo, has had more critical stops and has been better in coverage. Bailey isn't bad and nobody is going overboard criticizing him, but people act like he is still the same shut down CB we've seen in previous years and he absolutely has not been. He has given up more plays and dropped off significantly from his peak and clearly he is still viewed as he was, rather than what he is, which isn't fair. It happens all the time, but there was a lot of fine CB play this year and there are some guys that deserve recognition for the IMPACT they had on their team's season.

WARHORSE
12-29-2009, 08:58 PM
First, let me acknowledge the fact that Champ Bailey has given up the crown for best cornerback in the NFL to the extremely-talented Darrelle Revis. Even though that is the case, that doesn't necessarily mean that Champ Bailey isn't any good.

I'm reading a lot of "Champ got in based on name" bullcrap for the Pro Bowl and those are ignorant, misinformed statements. Champ Bailey still has "it", and while he doesn't collect a ton of interceptions, he's still one of the best cornerbacks in the NFL. And I'm going to show you why.

First off, I've heard that either Leon Hall or Jonathan Joseph from Cincinnati should've made it over Champ Bailey because they're "better". LOL! Here are the stats, and stats don't lie:

Champ Bailey- 60 tackles. Thrown at 78 times, 42 of those were completed (53.8%) for 465 yards (11.1 yards per catch). Has allowed 141 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 35 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

These are Champ's statistics, and we'll compare them to some cornerbacks who are supposedly "better" than Champ.

First off is Leon Hall: 51 tackles, thrown at 82 times and 43 of those were completed (52.4%) for 506 yards (11.8 yards per catch). Has allowed 179 yards after catch. Longest catch given up was 38 yards. He's given up 3 TDs.

Next, Jonathan Joseph: 54 tackles. Thrown at 96 times, 56 of those were completed (58.3%) for 690 yards (12.3 yards per catch). Has allowed 224 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 59 yards and he's given up 3 touchdowns.

Champ Bailey is better in more statistical categories when compared head-to-head with both of them. I'm not saying he's better in all facets, but he's better overall (evidently).

Now let's compare to Nnamdi Asomugha: 30 tackles. Thrown at 27 times, 21 of those were completed (77.8%) for 246 yards (11.7 yards per catch). Has allowed 119 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 49 yards and he's only given up 1 touchdown.

Yes, my friends, Champ Bailey is still better than Nnamdi Asomugha. Even though Asomugha is challenged much less, Champ beats him.

And, finally, let's compare Champ to the great Charles Woodson:65 tackles. Thrown at 70 times, 37 of those were completed (52.9%) for 429 yards (11.6 yards per catch). Has allowed 168 yards after catch. The longest catch he's given up is for 68 yards and he's given up 5 touchdowns.

There's talk that Charles Woodson is going to be the NFL defensive player of the year, but Champ Bailey is pretty close statistically to everything Charles Woodson has done. I'm not saying Champ Bailey should be the NFL Defensive Player of the Year (that belongs to Darrelle Revis because the guy is a freak and the definition of a shut-down cornerback), but Champ deserves respect.

He's still one of the top cornerbacks in the entire NFL, and he is in the Pro Bowl for many good reasons. His name did not get him into the Pro Bowl, his play did.



Dat right!:coffee:

WARHORSE
12-29-2009, 09:00 PM
1st if you are going to compare CBs, you shouldn't cherry pick ... 1st) players and 2nd) stats... give the complete picture

Leon Hall's numbers above are a wash... but he was MUCH better when you consider he had FAR more big plays including 6INTs and 2FF. Bailey has improved his numbers the last two weeks, just not enough to forget that he really was a non-factor many weeks.

LEON HALL 67 TACKLES 30PDs 6INTs 2FF
JONATHAN JOSEPH 66 TACKLES 26PDs 6INTs 1FF 1TD
CHAMP BAILEY 72 TACKLES 13PDs 3INTs 1FF

Sorry, Bailey is better in MORE statistical categories than both??? where are you getting that??? ... their team has been better and it is all more than enough to warrant his selection over Bailey. This is just two examples. You didn't provide a complete listing... Bailey 2nd in the AFC in % comp against?? is that why nobody else was included?

Charles Woodson? He forced 13 turnovers! 8INTs/4FF/1FR and 2TDs. Let's not start saying Bailey had a comparable year to that. That is idiotic. He had a DPOY-type season and made many game changing plays for his team (Which has helped them to the playoffs.)

Bailey for most of the year has played soft coverage (really the last two games have been BY FAR his most impressive of the year and it has improved his numbers - including those above, but not enough... imo to discount 13 weeks of soft play) and given up more plays than usual while failing to come up with big plays himself.

Playing CB in the NFL is about not giving up big plays and making big plays. Goodman, imo, has had more critical stops and has been better in coverage. Bailey isn't bad and nobody is going overboard criticizing him, but people act like he is still the same shut down CB we've seen in previous years and he absolutely has not been. He has given up more plays and dropped off significantly from his peak and clearly he is still viewed as he was, rather than what he is, which isn't fair. It happens all the time, but there was a lot of fine CB play this year and there are some guys that deserve recognition for the IMPACT they had on their team's season.


He said Champ deserves respect.

And directed at all the "Champ aint good anymore" idioches.

Poet
12-29-2009, 09:01 PM
I've never seen a single person say that Champ Bailey isn't a good player anymore.

dogfish
12-29-2009, 09:15 PM
I've never seen a single person say that Champ Bailey isn't a good player anymore.

clay talks shit about him all the time, but i don't know if you count clay as a person. . .


*zing!*


part of the "problem" with champ is that he was superhuman for most of his career, and now that he's "fallen off" to being merely very good, it looks poor in comparison. . .

topscribe
12-29-2009, 09:15 PM
Leon Hall gives up less passes than Bailey. Hall is the better CB. Hall also plays on a team that lost it's best pass rusher, Bailey does not. Hall has faced superior competition at the WR position. You don't believe it, go look through the teams and the WR's that they've faced.

I'm not going to make this into a ZOMG we got robbed and Bailey sux thread, but Hall is the superior CB.

I've watched enough Bronco and Bengals games to know.

Okay, here are Champ's numbers of the receivers he covered:

CIN Ochocinco 5/89
CLE Edwards 6/92
NE R. Moss 1/89
SD Jackson 4/46
BAL Clayton 3/33
PIT Holmes 6/93
WAS Randle El 3/45
WAS S. Moss 2/8 (Switched off with Goodman on these)
SD Gates 3/41 (Ditto)
NYG S. Smith 7/71
KC Chambers 2/11
IND Wayne 4/43
PHI Jackson 4/33

There were a couple games in there where Champ was not on anyone in
particular, so there is no way of knowing off the top. But anyway, I'd like to
see Hall's numbers.

P.S. I just heard: Champ has been thrown at by opposing QBs 82 times. Of all
the top CBs, Champ is the only one not to give up a TD.

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getlynched47
12-29-2009, 09:16 PM
1st if you are going to compare CBs, you shouldn't cherry pick ... 1st) players and 2nd) stats... give the complete picture

Leon Hall's numbers above are a wash... but he was MUCH better when you consider he had FAR more big plays including 6INTs and 2FF. Bailey has improved his numbers the last two weeks, just not enough to forget that he really was a non-factor many weeks.

LEON HALL 67 TACKLES 30PDs 6INTs 2FF
JONATHAN JOSEPH 66 TACKLES 26PDs 6INTs 1FF 1TD
CHAMP BAILEY 72 TACKLES 13PDs 3INTs 1FF

Sorry, Bailey is better in MORE statistical categories than both??? where are you getting that??? ... their team has been better and it is all more than enough to warrant his selection over Bailey. This is just two examples. You didn't provide a complete listing... Bailey 2nd in the AFC in % comp against?? is that why nobody else was included?

Charles Woodson? He forced 13 turnovers! 8INTs/4FF/1FR and 2TDs. Let's not start saying Bailey had a comparable year to that. That is idiotic. He had a DPOY-type season and made many game changing plays for his team (Which has helped them to the playoffs.)

Bailey for most of the year has played soft coverage (really the last two games have been BY FAR his most impressive of the year and it has improved his numbers - including those above, but not enough... imo to discount 13 weeks of soft play) and given up more plays than usual while failing to come up with big plays himself.

Playing CB in the NFL is about not giving up big plays and making big plays. Goodman, imo, has had more critical stops and has been better in coverage. Bailey isn't bad and nobody is going overboard criticizing him, but people act like he is still the same shut down CB we've seen in previous years and he absolutely has not been. He has given up more plays and dropped off significantly from his peak and clearly he is still viewed as he was, rather than what he is, which isn't fair. It happens all the time, but there was a lot of fine CB play this year and there are some guys that deserve recognition for the IMPACT they had on their team's season.

I said "Champ deserves respect", not he's the best in the business :rolleyes:

Dude you're lame, honestly, if you're gonna come back with stats, make sure they're correct.

NFL.com adds the interceptions into the pass defensed category. There's no way in hell a player like Leon Hall would get 30 passes defended.

Here are the right stats: Leon Hall has 16 passes defended + 6 interceptions
Jonathan Joseph has 14 passes defended + 6 interceptions
Champ Bailey has 10 passes defended + 3 interceptions

Just because those two have better passes defensed numbers AND interceptions doesn't make them better. Are you honestly going to argue that Jairus Byrd is the best safety in the NFL because he has 9 interceptions.

Please, **** with that crap.

JDL
12-29-2009, 09:20 PM
The site those stats are pulled from....

Actually RATES AFC CBs this way

1) D. Revis
2) L. Hall
3) B. Flowers
4T) J. Joseph
4T) C. Bailey

Just saying it isn't particularly intellectually honest to pull 'some' stats from a site and not provide 'all' or a complete analysis. It means you don't trust your argument.

Bailey is still a top CB in the league, but there were CBs can very reasonably be said to have played better or had more impact this year.

There isn't really a need to take such offense (like a different) poster did above.


By the way

Andre Goodman - Coverage stats (mind you they have him rated 167th to tell you how much I would rely on THAT site - particularly since they have different PD stats than Stats, Inc.)

BAILEY -72 targets 53.8% Cmp Against 465yards allowed 141YAC 1TDs
GOODMAN -78 targets 50.0% Cmp Against 491yards allowed 155YAC 2TDs

Imo, Goodman has been pretty dang impressive, but maybe that is just a reflex from suffering through the Bly years.

Poet
12-29-2009, 09:35 PM
Lynch,

Hall has more INTS, more PD's, and I've watched both teams play a lot, I'm sorry, Hall is the better corner. He's had one bad game, that was against Vincent Jackson.

Hall will never be as good as Bailey was in his prime. There's two guys in this league who could ever hope for that, Nnamdi and Revis, that's it.

As far as the "Bailey doesn't get it from his name," that's wrong. I'm not trying to attack him because he's the best corner I've ever seen barring Sanders or Woodson, and when he retires and his career is put in perspective I think we'll remember him as one of the best corners ever, but he made the Pro Bowl last year and started 9 games.

That's inexcusable.

His name got him this start.

I'm sorry.

Medford Bronco
12-29-2009, 09:40 PM
At what point will you choose to post seriously instead of complete bs every time you touch your keyboard. You know who should go....he's got that arm. :laugh: FFS...he asked who we think should go. It wasn't a smart ass question, either answer it or take a hike.

GEM he is our version of Patriotruler. Remember that fraud on broncomania:laugh:

Medford Bronco
12-29-2009, 09:47 PM
maybe you guys can beat them in the playoffs, and that will make you feel better about it. . .


i really don't care that much about the pro bowl, but it is nice to see some of my boys getting their props. . . i think DJ could easily have gone as well, but we can't complain when we have five guys in there. . . it's ironic that clady didn't make it last year, even though he played far better overall than he did this season. . . not that he was bad this year, and protecting orton is far more challenging than protecting cutler, but dude got massively gipped last year. . .

It would make me feel better :lol:

I think Benson should have made it no?

(I am not looking at the stats, I know Johnson made it from Tenn but who are the other Rbs, Med is being lazy right now :lol: )

Poet
12-29-2009, 09:49 PM
Ray Rice and Mojo beat out Benson.

Ray Rice made up a lot of his offense.

Benson made up all of his offense.

Damn, I knew that we weren't a 'sexy' loaded team, but this is going to bother the hell out of me. :mad:

topscribe
12-29-2009, 09:52 PM
GEM he is our version of Patriotruler. Remember that fraud on broncomania:laugh:

I do. The only difference is, PR stuck to the smack forum, and he was a lot of fun . . .

-----

Medford Bronco
12-29-2009, 09:53 PM
Ray Rice and Mojo beat out Benson.

Ray Rice made up a lot of his offense.

Benson made up all of his offense.

Damn, I knew that we weren't a 'sexy' loaded team, but this is going to bother the hell out of me. :mad:

Jone-Drew made it as well. The Jags suck compared to Cincy. Benson had a great year. I think he should be there IMO. Stats or not

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 10:29 PM
Lynch,

Hall has more INTS, more PD's, and I've watched both teams play a lot, I'm sorry, Hall is the better corner. He's had one bad game, that was against Vincent Jackson.

Hall will never be as good as Bailey was in his prime. There's two guys in this league who could ever hope for that, Nnamdi and Revis, that's it.

As far as the "Bailey doesn't get it from his name," that's wrong. I'm not trying to attack him because he's the best corner I've ever seen barring Sanders or Woodson, and when he retires and his career is put in perspective I think we'll remember him as one of the best corners ever, but he made the Pro Bowl last year and started 9 games.

That's inexcusable.

His name got him this start.

I'm sorry.

I'm not going to let this go, because you're wrong. Do you honestly base a cornerback's "grade" off of his interceptions and passes defended?

I've seen Leon Hall. I've seen Champ Bailey (obviously), and I've seen Jonathan Joseph.

Saying Leon Hall is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey is stupid, because it just isn't true. If that were the case, you better argue that Jairus Byrd is a better safety than Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu :rolleyes:

Poet
12-29-2009, 10:38 PM
I'm not going to let this go, because you're wrong. Do you honestly base a cornerback's "grade" off of his interceptions and passes defended?

I've seen Leon Hall. I've seen Champ Bailey (obviously), and I've seen Jonathan Joseph.

Saying Leon Hall is a better cornerback than Champ Bailey is stupid, because it just isn't true. If that were the case, you better argue that Jairus Byrd is a better safety than Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu :rolleyes:

Ok, remember you're the one who took the hostile attitude.

I don't grade corners off of INTs. It's a relevant stat, but you have to factor in that a lot of corners gamble and get more INTs, but they give up more yards and TDs. You factor in that some 'shut-down' corners don't get thrown at and it's obvious that they have less opportunities for INTS.

However, here's your problem. You claimed that his name didn't help him, I showed you that it did last year.

Then you broke down the stats, and Hall gave up a lesser completition of passes and less yards.

So Bailey is somehow a better corner this year because...he had a few more tackles?

I also asked to see your stats via link. I believe I either left that request in a MHS or on your account page (or whatever it's called), but I haven't been responded to. I want to see where you got the stats from (which actually favor me).

I don't mean to come off as an ass, but I doubt you've seen as much Leon Hall as I've seen Champ. The Broncos are my second team, and I do make a point to watch your games. Because I go to Buffalo Wild Wings every weekend to watch the games I usually get to see a lot of your games.

I wouldn't dare to claim that I've seen as much of Bailey as you have, but I know I've seen more Bailey than you've seen Hall.

So your stats show that you're wrong, and my own eyes show me that you're wrong.

He's a great corner, a HOFer, but he's not what he was, he got the Pro Bowl because of his name and Hall is currently the better corner.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.

getlynched47
12-29-2009, 11:13 PM
Ok, remember you're the one who took the hostile attitude.

I don't grade corners off of INTs. It's a relevant stat, but you have to factor in that a lot of corners gamble and get more INTs, but they give up more yards and TDs. You factor in that some 'shut-down' corners don't get thrown at and it's obvious that they have less opportunities for INTS.

However, here's your problem. You claimed that his name didn't help him, I showed you that it did last year.

Then you broke down the stats, and Hall gave up a lesser completition of passes and less yards.

So Bailey is somehow a better corner this year because...he had a few more tackles?

I also asked to see your stats via link. I believe I either left that request in a MHS or on your account page (or whatever it's called), but I haven't been responded to. I want to see where you got the stats from (which actually favor me).

I don't mean to come off as an ass, but I doubt you've seen as much Leon Hall as I've seen Champ. The Broncos are my second team, and I do make a point to watch your games. Because I go to Buffalo Wild Wings every weekend to watch the games I usually get to see a lot of your games.

I wouldn't dare to claim that I've seen as much of Bailey as you have, but I know I've seen more Bailey than you've seen Hall.

So your stats show that you're wrong, and my own eyes show me that you're wrong.

He's a great corner, a HOFer, but he's not what he was, he got the Pro Bowl because of his name and Hall is currently the better corner.

We can keep doing this all day if you want.

Not hostile, at least not towards you...the other guy yes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Leon Hall sucks...he's very good. I'm just saying he isn't better than Champ Bailey simply because he has more interceptions. Both of their statistics I posted a few pages back are similar, but Champ has the edge on the majority. The MAJORITY.

Leon Hall allows more yards, more yards after the catch, a bigger pass-play, and the most crucial part is that he's allowed more touchdowns. That's why Champ is better. I'd say Hall is right on Champ's ass, no doubt, but he isn't better than Champ...yet.

And in regards to the interceptions, Interceptions and Passes defended don't tell the whole story.

Zack Bowman has 5 INT's

Brent Grimes has 5 INT's

Aqib Talib has 5 INT's

Vontae Davis has 4 INT's

Dominique Foxworth has 4 INT's

Tracy Porter has 4 INT's

That's why I ignored the interceptions, because they don't tell the whole story. Those guys aren't better than Champ Bailey.

They aren't better than Nnamdi Asomugha either, who only has 1 interception

Lonestar
12-29-2009, 11:16 PM
Hmmm IIRC hearing 5 broncos going to the prowl bowl. How many last year?

IIRC was less than 5.

And someone thinks our HC can't get much out of our players.

broken12
12-29-2009, 11:19 PM
clady going from last years performance, doom was not used right last year!

Lonestar
12-30-2009, 04:59 AM
clady going from last years performance, doom was not used right last year!


so not used right last year seems the HC did something right.

opposed to someone else that did not..

GEM
12-30-2009, 10:20 AM
so not used right last year seems the HC did something right.

opposed to someone else that did not..

Nolan got some things very right this year on D.

topscribe
12-30-2009, 03:16 PM
Nolan got some things very right this year on D.

Pay Nolan! Get down on your knees and beg! Move him into your master
bedroom and sleep on the couch! Anything!! :pray:

-----

JDL
12-30-2009, 03:35 PM
I said "Champ deserves respect", not he's the best in the business :rolleyes:

Dude you're lame, honestly, if you're gonna come back with stats, make sure they're correct.

NFL.com adds the interceptions into the pass defensed category. There's no way in hell a player like Leon Hall would get 30 passes defended.

Here are the right stats: Leon Hall has 16 passes defended + 6 interceptions
Jonathan Joseph has 14 passes defended + 6 interceptions
Champ Bailey has 10 passes defended + 3 interceptions

Just because those two have better passes defensed numbers AND interceptions doesn't make them better. Are you honestly going to argue that Jairus Byrd is the best safety in the NFL because he has 9 interceptions.

Please, **** with that crap.

REALLY? STATS AREN'T RIGHT?

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-o=2&conference=null&tabSeq=0&statisticCategory=INTERCEPTIONS&d-447263-p=1&d-447263-s=DEFENSIVE_PASSES_INT_DEFENSED&d-447263-n=1

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/defense/sort/passesDefended

It is 24 w/o INTs... 30 With. NOT what you have above... sorry chief YOU are the one with the wrong stats. NOT surprisingly.


As for the Byrd, comment... does he have virtually identical numbers in the other important categories? Yah, didn't think so... as shown above Hall and Joseph do... so all things being equal... oh forget it... you'd still be shining Bailey's nutsack.

Spiritguy
12-30-2009, 04:41 PM
Besides the five Broncos who were selected to the AFC Pro Bowl team _ Elvis Dumervil, Ryan Clady, Brian Dawkins, Brandon Marshall and Champ Bailey _ inside linebacker D.J. Williams was named an alternate, as announced by coach Josh McDaniels.

It’s nice recognition for Williams, who has played four different linebacking positions in the past five years. Besides leading the team with 111 tackles, Williams has been more of a playmaker this year as he has set or tied career highs with 3 1/2 sacks, three forced fumbles and two fumble recoveries.

http://blogs.denverpost.com/broncos/2009/12/30/d-j-williams-a-pro-bowl-alternate/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+dp-blogs-broncos+%28Denver+Post%3A+Sports%3A+Broncos%3A+Blo g%29

Denver Native (Carol)
12-30-2009, 08:57 PM
http://www.denverbroncos.com/page.php?id=334&storyID=9726

ENGLEWOOD, Colo. -- On Tuesday, five Broncos were officially named to the AFC Roster in the 2010 Pro Bowl.

Champ Bailey, Ryan Clady, Brian Dawkins, Elvis Dumervil and Brandon Marshall will represent Denver at the league's annual All-Star Game at the end of January in Miami. Clady, Dawkins and Dumervil were voted starters.

"All of our team is happy for everybody that made the Pro Bowl, and I think that every one of them was well deserved," Kyle Orton said.

The players responded to the honor on Wednesday, and it was obvious that each appreciates the fact that they are looked at as some of the "best of the best."

Head Coach Josh McDaniels said that honor is all the more important since two-thirds of the voting comes from within the league -- players and coaches.

"I think that's really the thing to be proudest of as a player, that your peers really selected you to play in that game as the best of the best," McDaniels said. "I think it's a great honor for all of those guys to be selected and be able to go play in that game because it says a lot about what you've earned, and they've earned the respect of their peers in the league."

That much is true for all of the Broncos selected, but Clady and Marshall can rest assured that their peers think especially highly of them, as they were not among the top five players at their respective positions after fan voting concluded.

"It is definitely a blessing," Marshall said. "Your peers and the coaches around the league, they see the work you've put in and they vote you in. I'm happy for that. The fans, of course, play a huge role in that, too. So it means a lot."

Each player has a reason to be especially proud of the accomplishment.

Marshall spoke about how he didn't start the season as well as he would've hoped, but finished strong enough to earn his second-consecutive trip to the all-star game.

Clady did not allow a single sack in his first 20 career starts, an NFL record since STATS Inc. began tracking the statistic in 1994, and earned recognition for his stellar play in just his second season.

Dumervil mentioned the challenge of switching positions, and he was voted among the best of the best while mastering "about 80 percent" of his outside linebacker/defensive end spot.

Dawkins was a perennial Pro Bowler with the Eagles in the NFC, and after switching conferences, it seemed like an uphill climb for the veteran safety to earn his eighth trip to the game.

"To be able to come to the AFC and be given the respect of the coaches and players from this conference also is a big thing," Dawkins said. "I don't take this for granted."

As for Bailey, he has now been named to the Pro Bowl nine times, tying Pro Football Hall of Famer Mike Haynes for the most trips in NFL history at the cornerback position.

While the recognition from fans, coaches and his peers certainly means something, he echoed the sentiments of the rest of the locker room that the team still has a task at hand, and the Pro Bowl won't distract any of the players from their goals.

"It does feel good," Bailey said. "But being in this game as long as I have, just letting these playoffs slip away every year is not good. We've just got to make sure we go out and take care what is in front of us and not look past that."

McDaniels announced on Wednesday that D.J. Williams has also been voted an alternate for the Pro Bowl at inside linebacker.

"We're proud of all of those guys," he said.

INJURY REPORT

Nine Broncos were listed the injury report after Wednesday's practice. Daniel Graham (knee) and Eddie Royal (head/neck) did not participate in the session. Spencer Larsen (hamstring), Ty Law (hamstring), Marshall (hamstring) and Darrell Reid (knee) had limited participation on Wednesday, while Correll Buckhalter (ankle), Dawkins (knee) and Renaldo Hill (ankle) all participated fully.

For the Chiefs, C/G Andy Alleman (back) and CB Brandon Flowers (shoulder) had limited participation Wednesday, while DE Alex Magee (hamstring) was listed with full participation.
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