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View Full Version : my observations of Philly GAME 12/27/09 - (merged)



Lonestar
12-27-2009, 09:48 PM
I thought overall the boys played well today..

Marshall dropped 3-4 balls today that he needed to catch they were early in the game and they hurt us badly..

Orton looked good and Thought he had most of his throws placed well for the most part..

Scheffler should have been reamed out on that pick while the ball was in the air a long time there was NO WAY he should have allowed it to be picked off with out a fight.. he is bigger than the DB and he should have fought for the ball.. I lost a lot of respect for him on that one..

D still had problems stopping the run and wow did they set another NFL record for long plays given up, or WHAT..

the one long TD play was really lousy coverage on someone part. and to allow Mc Nabb that 35 yard run on 3rd and forever was the back breaker IMHO..

they played and lost to a legit PLAYOFF not OAK whom we should have beat like a rented mule..

Playoffs or not this team has come along way this season, I look forward to seeing how Josh is going to plug some holes on the LOS..

the refs left a lot to be desired in this game and the last review there was NO doubt in my mind on how that was going to come out.. I left the bar at that point to drive home.. some of those calls were well lets stay creative.. while they may have really been there how the Eagles did not called on the same stuff well perhaps they decided after Stockley beat one of them up that they would show us..

horsepig
12-27-2009, 09:55 PM
Pretty well sums it up Jr.

Are they really making progress? I guess they are by not getting blown out in games like this and Indy.

This team, and I mean from top to bottom, needs to learn how to play whole games.

Lonestar
12-27-2009, 10:19 PM
Pretty well sums it up Jr.

Are they really making progress? I guess they are by not getting blown out in games like this and Indy.

This team, and I mean from top to bottom, needs to learn how to play whole games.


I think that comes with time in grade/scheme.. I know that I did not expect a season this good this year.. so I have been more than pleased upset because they do not play every game the same all the time in those games..

but for everyone dissing them well I can understand it as they looked like world beaters in those first 6 games.. but the season wore on, after listening to their press clippings they came back to earth and played a hell of a game.. today..

I have to wonder if Marshall would have caught a couple of those dropped balls if the outcome would have been different.. but lots of mistakes bad plays and really bad reffing cost us a game we could have won against a quality team that has been working together for a LONG time..

We will get better next year after everyone sits down and studies tape..

JONtheBRONCO
12-27-2009, 10:21 PM
At least we'll have a fun off-season. Some guys to re-sign, who will we keep, who will go. Who will be our new LG? Great draft pick. Should be fun peeps.

KCL
12-27-2009, 10:25 PM
Vince Lombardi

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."

elsid13
12-27-2009, 10:27 PM
Vince Lombardi

"We didn't lose the game; we just ran out of time."

No I am pretty sure they lost the game, and time didn't have anything to do with it.

Four time in second half when they started on/or about the 50 and three points is losing the game.

KCL
12-27-2009, 10:30 PM
No I am pretty sure they lost the game, and time didn't have anything to do with it.

Four time in second half when they started on/or about the 50 and three points is losing the game.

Well of course they lost the game...I just like that quote.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-27-2009, 10:32 PM
Pretty well sums it up Jr.

Are they really making progress? I guess they are by not getting blown out in games like this and Indy.

This team, and I mean from top to bottom, needs to learn how to play whole games.

Are they making progress - WELL - there were many who thought before the season started, that they would win 2, 3, 4 games - so I definitely feel they have made progress.

KCL
12-27-2009, 10:37 PM
Are they making progress - WELL - there were many who thought before the season started, that they would win 2, 3, 4 games - so I definitely feel they have made progress.

I have been following the Broncos all year just like I do the Chiefs and the other 2 teams...no offense and yes I know the Chiefs are in last place....but Denver has just been to inconsistent.To beat the Chiefs to a pulp to losing to the Raiders at home...they did a good job today...just not good enough..just my observation.

Brand
12-28-2009, 12:38 AM
Can't really argue that. I am impressed that this team fought to the end today. It was a long QB run, the one catch and two holding calls against the Broncos' Oline that lost the game. The Eagles were on the ropes in the third Quarter and the start of the fourth.

But I agree that the Eagles have been playing together in the same system for a very long time. I think Reid has been there 11 years, and McNabb has been there a long time as well. This is the first year of McD's system and for Orton and the other Broncos. I was especially impressed with the develoment of the D which I think can get better with time in the system. For having just moved to the 3-4 and hybrid offshoots, they did pretty well. Most thought it would take two years before they could play a decent 3-4 D, but I think they were at least competitive for a vast majority of plays. (Case im point: how many were surprised by the play of Ron Fields?)

I was surprised by the Oline's digression, and I am looking for changes in that area, including in the coaching staff.

broncobryce
12-28-2009, 12:43 AM
Can't really argue that. I am impressed that this team fought to the end today. It was a long QB run, the one catch and two holding calls against the Broncos' Oline that lost the game. The Eagles were on the ropes in the third Quarter and the start of the fourth.

But I agree that the Eagles have been playing together in the same system for a very long time. I think Reid has been there 11 years, and McNabb has been there a long time as well. This is the first year of McD's system and for Orton and the other Broncos. I was especially impressed with the develoment of the D which I think can get better with time in the system. For having just moved to the 3-4 and hybrid offshoots, they did pretty well. Most thought it would take two years before they could play a decent 3-4 D, but I think they were at least competitive for a vast majority of plays. (Case im point: how many were surprised by the play of Ron Fields?)

I was surprised by the Oline's digression, and I am looking for changes in that area, including in the coaching staff.

You and JR are spot on. Thank God there are fans here with common sense. Lord knows I didn't have much today

JONtheBRONCO
12-28-2009, 01:49 AM
#3 overall defense. I'd say thats a hell of an improvement and something to build around. Is our secondary getting any younger? No. But with an improved defensive line, our defense could be something great next year. They still have a year or two left in the tank. Ayers played pretty well today too. I'm telling you, we aren't far off. We need Harris to come back heathy and some interior linemen (LG, C - and I'm thinking Logan Mankins might look great in Orange and Blue - he is a FA after this season).

A lot of us (including myself at times) are quick to point the finger at Moreno for running so poorly, but if you study our line play closely, esp on run plays, the LG position is a glaring weakness. We do need another RB to add to the mix and another tall WR to even out the field. I don't know if Orton is the answer, he looks good at times, but he has also gone weeks without a solid ground game. A balanced attack does wonders for the offense, as we've seen out of the Saints and Patriots.

We have some big pay checks to dish out:

Priority #1 Brandon Marshall, pay him, pay him, pay him.
Priority #2 Doom.

Lonestar
12-28-2009, 04:17 AM
You and JR are spot on. Thank God there are fans here with common sense. Lord knows I didn't have much today

most fans are good ones I missed the heat of the day by actually watching the game.. many folks have been expecting a playoff win on even farther..

but they really do not remember how big a hole we have been in from a lack of talent..

lots thought that Josh only had to shore up the defense, but after watching the oline over the past few few months realize that it was a matter of time, before this happened..

we were paper thin last year and to think we had all the oline together from start to finish is pretty incredible.. but anyone with a clear eye on it knew that hamilton was the biggest weak link he has played on roller skates for years he simply was not strong enough to cut eh mustard in pass blocking POCKET style ever.. he was helped in years past by nalen.. when casey took over for him they were still doing teh ZBS for running and while ok it bought him and casey indecision seconds on pass protection.

once that went away and they went to more of a passing games than mostly ZBS we all saw how he stunk it up.. he is no longer playing and frankly I'd be surprised if he is on the team next year.. for that matter casey also..

when Harris went down and frankly he is not super either we bit the big one they had to try and get back to the ZBS because the O line is simply not big enough, strong enough to handle NFL pass protect ..

now why didn't Josh get it I believe he bought the hype that that they could handle it because after all they were one of the best in the league last year..

he learned by his and dennisons mistakes and there will be at least two newbies on the o line next season..I think they will draft biggies on the NT and maybe another DE (true) and then in the third and fourth go for a OG and maybe a center but I suspect they will bring a FA in for that since it is a tough position to fill.

Ayers looked like he was in the mix today.. alot more than in the past.. I forgot to mention him before.. but that was a good catch..

CoachChaz
12-28-2009, 08:19 AM
Aside from the mistakes throughout the game, the o-line let us down at the end. First down pass to keep a possible game winning drive going...HOLDING. Orton's run (which I thought McD should have gone for it on 4th down)...HOLDING.

Funny thing about the offense this year and all the complaints that have come up...but it seems like the weakest link on that side of the ball has been the line. And let's not be ignorant and blame it on losing the ZBS.

claymore
12-28-2009, 08:27 AM
Aside from the mistakes throughout the game, the o-line let us down at the end. First down pass to keep a possible game winning drive going...HOLDING. Orton's run (which I thought McD should have gone for it on 4th down)...HOLDING.

Funny thing about the offense this year and all the complaints that have come up...but it seems like the weakest link on that side of the ball has been the line. And let's not be ignorant and blame it on losing the ZBS.

If its not the players, and its not the scheme, what is it? Coaching?

HORSEPOWER 56
12-28-2009, 08:38 AM
If its not the players, and its not the scheme, what is it? Coaching?

Whether people like it or not clay, it's always either the scheme or the execution. Scheme includes coaching. We have problems with both on the O-line this year. I don't think it's a talent problem. Same guys as last year WTE of Polumbus. Everyone thought Hochstein would be an upgrade over Hamilton, he's not. Our pass protection isn't any better and our running game is WORSE with him in there. We used to be able to run left almost at will with hamilton, now DTs are blowing it up in the backfield every time we run left.

Hindsight being 20/20, I think that had we not replaced hamilton as a knee jerk reaction, we'd probably be running better (at least left) right now.

CoachChaz
12-28-2009, 09:14 AM
If its not the players, and its not the scheme, what is it? Coaching?

I think it's everything. The coaching, scheme, players, execution...all aspects have had their share of letdowns this season. To an extent...it can be expected in the first year of a big change. if improvements arent made next year, then things have to be looked at.

Clacy, Kuper, Marshall, Moreno, McDaniels, etc. Everyone involved is still very younf and very new to things and hiccups should be expected. Maybe I'm the only one that sees that. I dont know

claymore
12-28-2009, 09:30 AM
I think it's everything. The coaching, scheme, players, execution...all aspects have had their share of letdowns this season. To an extent...it can be expected in the first year of a big change. if improvements arent made next year, then things have to be looked at.

Clacy, Kuper, Marshall, Moreno, McDaniels, etc. Everyone involved is still very younf and very new to things and hiccups should be expected. Maybe I'm the only one that sees that. I dont know

I guess I just hate seeing one our strengths turned into a weakness. McDaniels needs to fix the line if he likes his 303 area code. He has 2 more years to do it.

Dreadnought
12-28-2009, 09:33 AM
Are they making progress - WELL - there were many who thought before the season started, that they would win 2, 3, 4 games - so I definitely feel they have made progress.

I hate to disagree, but I think we are now seeing the exact opposite of progress. We are 2-7 since the Bye, and are playing exactly like a 2-7 team. And that looks like a more accurate measure of the Broncos than the 6-0 start.

Nolan has cobbled a nasty little defense, and we have been plus 2 in turnovers every game the past three weeks - with the season on the line - and the offense is simply too feeble and badly conceived to take advantage. The defense has been a breath of fresh air after the Bates/Slowick years, but we squandered that - and that falls squarely on the head coach. Honestly? The 2008 team was better IMO than this one overall, even with the vile defense.

Nomad
12-28-2009, 09:56 AM
I hate to disagree, but I think we are now seeing the exact opposite of progress. We are 2-7 since the Bye, and are playing exactly like a 2-7 team. And that looks like a more accurate measure of the Broncos than the 6-0 start.

Nolan has cobbled a nasty little defense, and we have been plus 2 in turnovers the past two weeks - with the season on the line - and the offense is simply too feeble and badly conceived to take advantage. The defense has been a breath of fresh air after the Bates/Slowick years, but we squandered that - and that falls squarely on the head coach. Honestly? The 2008 team was better IMO than this one overall, even with the vile defense.

True! People can sugarcoat it all they want, but it would have been better the BRONCOS went 3-3 the first half and had a winning record or split the games down the stretch and showed signs of progressing with injuries or not. This team has regressed.

Elevation inc
12-28-2009, 10:05 AM
Aside from the mistakes throughout the game, the o-line let us down at the end. First down pass to keep a possible game winning drive going...HOLDING. Orton's run (which I thought McD should have gone for it on 4th down)...HOLDING.

Funny thing about the offense this year and all the complaints that have come up...but it seems like the weakest link on that side of the ball has been the line. And let's not be ignorant and blame it on losing the ZBS.


its the talent we have not the scheme(power/or zbs) polumbus/kuper/hamilton/weigman all are gone in the off-season guarenteed..we have good bookend tackles, no depth behind them and zero interior OL that are promising....i see a major upgrade coming here in the offseason....i can easily see up to 3 draft picks, and a couple UDFA as well as maybe a high profile FA dedicated to interior OL....

with no CBA in place i have confidence kuper will now be tendered and traded, hamilton will be gone, Weigman might not make it out of TC, hochstein could be gone as well, and ploumbus, gorin, mitch erikson released.....that leaves us with clady/Harris/seth olsen for sure..and possibly weigman and hochstein as back-ups depending on MCD decision with them.....meaning we need at least a new tackle, 2 interior OL, and 1 center

Elevation inc
12-28-2009, 10:19 AM
I hate to disagree, but I think we are now seeing the exact opposite of progress. We are 2-7 since the Bye, and are playing exactly like a 2-7 team. And that looks like a more accurate measure of the Broncos than the 6-0 start.

Nolan has cobbled a nasty little defense, and we have been plus 2 in turnovers every game the past three weeks - with the season on the line - and the offense is simply too feeble and badly conceived to take advantage. The defense has been a breath of fresh air after the Bates/Slowick years, but we squandered that - and that falls squarely on the head coach. Honestly? The 2008 team was better IMO than this one overall, even with the vile defense.


Not a chance we went 8-8 last year with a powder puff schedule....

this year we played cincy(10-5), Dallas(10-5), New england(10-5), San diego(12-3 x 2), Pitt(8-7), Balt(8-7), Giants(8-7), Eagles(11-4), Indy(14-1)

and oakland and washington have both upset some top teams besides us.....


the fact we are probally going be 9-7 is actually progress over 8-8...are schedule was harder, we had 30 new players, new coaches, 2 new schemes, a new Qb etc.....thats alot....

only reason people have there pantis in a bunch is becasue we went 6-0...the bye had alot to do with messing up the momentum of this team....there is do doubt this team has issues, but this team is better as a whole......we had the worst defense denver has ever fielded last year and we now have the #3 overall defense......while our offesne has been mediocre(they weret very good last year either), but i feel its a tough system with a Qb who probally isnt the right fit.....but that shouldnt take away from the changes that were made and the fact this team is still gonna pull out a non losing season when 70% of the fans felt we were headed for 4 wins....and they had us pegged as beating only oakland and KC 2 times each....

CoachChaz
12-28-2009, 10:26 AM
I hate to disagree, but I think we are now seeing the exact opposite of progress. We are 2-7 since the Bye, and are playing exactly like a 2-7 team. And that looks like a more accurate measure of the Broncos than the 6-0 start.

Nolan has cobbled a nasty little defense, and we have been plus 2 in turnovers every game the past three weeks - with the season on the line - and the offense is simply too feeble and badly conceived to take advantage. The defense has been a breath of fresh air after the Bates/Slowick years, but we squandered that - and that falls squarely on the head coach. Honestly? The 2008 team was better IMO than this one overall, even with the vile defense.

Pure pessimism. Maybe the 2008 offense had better fantasy numbers, but it wasnt any better than this offense. I guess I just fail to see how some people cant see where the issues lie and blindly expect that they should immediately be fixed. The o-line is a problem...period. Harris is hurt, Clady isnt playing like last year, Wirgmann is done, Kuper is overrated and the LG spot simply sucks. Put Manning and Petersen behind this line and I'm willing to bet that while the numbers might be a little improved...the final scores wouldnt be a whole lot different. I dont care if it's a spread, a WCO, wildcat, veer...you name it. if the line cant block...nothing works.

Traveler
12-28-2009, 10:26 AM
its the talent we have not the scheme(power/or zbs).

I think it's a combination of both. Not all the players we have right now fit the new scheme. Shanahan specifically drafted players that fit his WC offensive scheme. You'll note that during his years here after Elway, we've always had short yardage issues and trouble against physical teams. No different this year.

IMO, the new scheme just isn't suited for our finesse OLmen. With the exception of Clady and Harris, the rest of our OL can't beat the man in front of them one on one.

Ravage!!!
12-28-2009, 10:32 AM
I think 3 of those "dropped balls" from marshall, were the fact that the QB was throwing the ball for a 3 yrds crossing as if he was throwing at a 30 yrd crossing. WAY too hard, and balls that hard, that close.. you have to be perfectly on target because the WR doesn't have time to adjust. Those were QB errors and not WR errors.

Elevation inc
12-28-2009, 10:35 AM
I think 3 of those "dropped balls" from marshall, were the fact that the QB was throwing the ball for a 3 yrds crossing as if he was throwing at a 30 yrd crossing. WAY too hard, and balls that hard, that close.. you have to be perfectly on target because the WR doesn't have time to adjust. Those were QB errors and not WR errors.

well 2 were poorly thrown by orton but one was marshalls fault.....

Nomad
12-28-2009, 10:36 AM
I think 3 of those "dropped balls" from marshall, were the fact that the QB was throwing the ball for a 3 yrds crossing as if he was throwing at a 30 yrd crossing. WAY too hard, and balls that hard, that close.. you have to be perfectly on target because the WR doesn't have time to adjust. Those were QB errors and not WR errors.

And I'll add, the pass to Marshall that was a sure TD (he had a couple steps on the defender)but grossly underthrown!! Had it been over the top, TD!!

elsid13
12-28-2009, 10:54 AM
And I'll add, the pass to Marshall that was a sure TD (he had a couple steps on the defender)but grossly underthrown!! Had it been over the top, TD!!

Or the one the Scheffer that got he laid out, that was TD if Orton had a little more arm.

Superchop 7
12-28-2009, 10:56 AM
On defense......just get me a NT that commands a doubleteam.

On Offense......Upgrade both guards, leave Wiegmann in (to groom them, very important) find a long term answer for QB. (legs, an arm, and a brain)

On Coaching.....I think Mark Jackson summed it up the best when he said "where's the variety ?" He was referring to the WR running the same routes over and over.

Overall, I'm pleased and disappointed, Nolan gets an A+ on defense and McDaniels gets a C- on offense. (Offense was loaded with talent)

It is my hope that McDaniels has humbled himself, drops the dictator act, the arrogance, and works towards structure, especially in regards to the draft. He needs to be a better communicator, some of his biggest problems would have been fixed with a phone call.

On the plus side, I didn't see 53 groin injuries this year, whatever he did there......I tip my cap.

CoachChaz
12-28-2009, 11:06 AM
On defense......just get me a NT that commands a doubleteam.

On Offense......Upgrade both guards, leave Wiegmann in (to groom them, very important) find a long term answer for QB. (legs, an arm, and a brain)

On Coaching.....I think Mark Jackson summed it up the best when he said "where's the variety ?" He was referring to the WR running the same routes over and over.

Overall, I'm pleased and disappointed, Nolan gets an A+ on defense and McDaniels gets a C- on offense. (Offense was loaded with talent)

It is my hope that McDaniels has humbled himself, drops the dictator act, the arrogance, and works towards structure, especially in regards to the draft. He needs to be a better communicator, some of his biggest problems would have been fixed with a phone call.

On the plus side, I didn't see 53 groin injuries this year, whatever he did there......I tip my cap.

Very YOUNG talent. Give the coach and the players a little time. It will all get worked out.

Elevation inc
12-28-2009, 11:09 AM
On defense......just get me a NT that commands a doubleteam.

On Offense......Upgrade both guards, leave Wiegmann in (to groom them, very important) find a long term answer for QB. (legs, an arm, and a brain)

On Coaching.....I think Mark Jackson summed it up the best when he said "where's the variety ?" He was referring to the WR running the same routes over and over.

Overall, I'm pleased and disappointed, Nolan gets an A+ on defense and McDaniels gets a C- on offense. (Offense was loaded with talent)

It is my hope that McDaniels has humbled himself, drops the dictator act, the arrogance, and works towards structure, especially in regards to the draft. He needs to be a better communicator, some of his biggest problems would have been fixed with a phone call.

On the plus side, I didn't see 53 groin injuries this year, whatever he did there......I tip my cap.

ronald fields is the least of our problems, dont forget this is his first year as a full starter and he did well.....

EastCoastBronco
12-28-2009, 11:28 AM
The screens killed us. WTF is it with this offence and screens? They don't work in the second half once they have been diagnosed. The last 3 drives we had we lost more yards than we gained because of those damn screens.

Biz1
12-28-2009, 11:30 AM
I think 3 of those "dropped balls" from marshall, were the fact that the QB was throwing the ball for a 3 yrds crossing as if he was throwing at a 30 yrd crossing. WAY too hard, and balls that hard, that close.. you have to be perfectly on target because the WR doesn't have time to adjust. Those were QB errors and not WR errors.

That's odd, almost every Bronco fan thought Orton had a "noodle arm" when he was traded for. Now he's throwing too hard?. Receivers are paid to make those plays. If the ball hits your hands, you should catch it.

To all:

I finally was able to watch an entire Broncos game yesterday, and being a fan of another teams allows for a certain amount of objectivity.

I haven't seen an NFL game that poorly officiated since, well last year(and I think it was against the Chargers?). You all got raped IMO. I'm tired of the NO Fun League allowing refs to control the outcome, let them play. I realize that the rule states any contact made with a referee results in an immediate ejection, but he barely touched the refs finger unintentionally after a lousy non-call. That ref wanted to set the tone early.

Orton played well, and Clady is a beast. With the stockpiled draft picks upcoming, I see no reason why Denver will not dethrone San Diego next year. Tough loss yesterday, but there are a ton of positives I see despite the outcome.

And quite frankly, with the way things went I'm not convinced that Philly was even the better team.

broncofaninfla
12-28-2009, 11:39 AM
Bubble screens, running out of the shot gun and consistently feeding the ball up the gut with a gutless O-line didn't help. I am not impressed with Mcd as a OC at all and do not buy into his offensive schemes.

Lonestar
12-28-2009, 11:46 AM
I'm not so sure that Kuper is a total loss. With harris on the outside there were few problems with pass protect or running to that side.

In most cases one weak link on either LINE every thing else is magnified. Now instead of just doing your job you have to over compensate the other way.

Kuper IMO is a good to great org just can't carry his load, polumbus and caseys also because casey is trying to cover for the OLG also.

Same goes for Clady because he has to help to his right OR dores not have that confidence or feel for what the guy next to him can or is going to do. He can't dominate like he did last year.

On the oline or dl you have to trust the guys next to you. It is necessary to have great timing and not have to hesitate even a fraction of a second as the guy in front of you at this level will kill you if you do.

That is why the great Olines have continuity. Maybe not even the best players at their spots. They just look great because they are a well oiled machine.

That is something we do not have yet. Josh in hois quest for bigger, stronger players set that back a bit. You can make one change on the line but to have harris and hamilton both out on a scheme change year was to much to overcome.

Take it from an old ORG the trust factor is huge. Any hesitation at this level is deadly.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

topscribe
12-28-2009, 01:06 PM
That's odd, almost every Bronco fan thought Orton had a "noodle arm" when he was traded for. Now he's throwing too hard?. Receivers are paid to make those plays. If the ball hits your hands, you should catch it.

To all:

I finally was able to watch an entire Broncos game yesterday, and being a fan of another teams allows for a certain amount of objectivity.

I haven't seen an NFL game that poorly officiated since, well last year(and I think it was against the Chargers?). You all got raped IMO. I'm tired of the NO Fun League allowing refs to control the outcome, let them play. I realize that the rule states any contact made with a referee results in an immediate ejection, but he barely touched the refs finger unintentionally after a lousy non-call. That ref wanted to set the tone early.

Orton played well, and Clady is a beast. With the stockpiled draft picks upcoming, I see no reason why Denver will not dethrone San Diego next year. Tough loss yesterday, but there are a ton of positives I see despite the outcome.

And quite frankly, with the way things went I'm not convinced that Philly was even the better team.

Good comment. I wish I could give you a few more high-fives for that.

Regarding Orton, that occurred to me, too: Ol' "noodle arm" now throws too hard? :pound:

-----

Dean
12-28-2009, 04:51 PM
Orten was throwing too hard for being less that ten yards from his reciever. Even a grade school kid can throw it too hard to catch if he is close enough to you. If we want to look at his intermediate to long range ability, there are other passes to look at. The pass that was picked off was a bit too short. The long incompletion to Marshall was thrown too late. It was not thrown away from the reciever.

IMO, Orten is not horrible at throwing the long ball but he does have timing and accuracy problems. It looks to me like he tends to underthrow the long ball. These may be from not being allowed to air it out in practice. . . or . . .not, since we don't get any feedback on what occurs in practice.

I believe that we need to throw long early to loosen up the D even if it is an incompletion.

West
12-28-2009, 05:11 PM
Another tough loss for our beloved Broncos. Here are my observations

-Don't let the solid play of our DL fool you, the Eagles haven't been physical upfront in a LONG time. They did play well, however.

-I seriously think outside of Dawk and Champion (sometimes), our secondary is filled with a bunch of sissies. Its embarrassing seeing them shy away from contact. I hope to God we have a revamped secondary next year with some aggressive d-backs filled with swagger. When Renaldo Hill shyed away from knocking Celek out of bounds on that long TD, I about puked. PATHETIC. Another example is when that Weaver dude bounced a play to the outside on a 3rd down and Goodman made a piss poor effort to keep him from getting the first down. *facepalm*

-Woodyard continues to be a liability in pass coverage. Keep his ass on the special teams.

-Andra Davis, DJ Williams (surprise surprise) and Ayers had a GREAT game yesterday. I was very impressed with their play. Ayers will be a star in this league, IMO.

-We did a better job of getting solid yards on first down to make it less predictable on 2nd, 3rd downs but it was through the air. I hate to keep harping on this but our OL is pathetic. That lineup is full of pansies outside of Clady. Once again, there was ZERO room to run against the Eagles.

-Orton continues to prove me right with his poor pcket presence. He might as well be wearing a skirt back there. On that 3rd and 2 when he missed Brandon Lloyd, he could have EASILY picked up the first down on the ground but he decides to force the ball into coverage. WHAT? Get your ******* shirt dirty you ******* vagina! I'll end it at that.

dogfish
12-28-2009, 05:51 PM
i was mad as hell at hill for that weak effort-- it's pretty bad when the announcers are showing all the different angles and calling him out. . . it sure looked like he quit on the play. . . he hasn't been anything special this year, and after seeing that i'll be just as pleased if he's not back next season. . . i think mcbath and bruton have both shown some flashes when pressed into service. . . berry falling to us is probably a pipe dream, but i won't be upset if they give mcbath the first shot at winning the starting job next year. . . he's fast and athletic, and clearly has some ball skills. . .

and on that same third-and-two, i was screaming for orton to just take off-- he would've gotten the first easily. . . i'm NOT trying to blame him for the loss, at all-- there's more than enough to go around-- but i do think the contrast between mcnabb being able to take off and convert a damn 3rd-and-forever with his legs vs. orton being not running to get that easy first, and then trying to run on third-and-eight and not making it on the drive prior to their winning score is a good example of why i'd like to see us look in another direction for our long-term starting QB. . .

it's not orton's fault that he isn't more athletic, and some of the great QBs in the game aren't any more mobile than he is-- but when you throw the ball like a brady or manning, no one cares if you can run it or not. . . orton seems to need a near-perfect pocket to be effective, and the guy turtles the minute the protection breaks down. . .

Biz1
12-28-2009, 05:57 PM
Good comment. I wish I could give you a few more high-fives for that.

Regarding Orton, that occurred to me, too: Ol' "noodle arm" now throws too hard? :pound:

-----

The Orton pick play was 5 yards under thrown...QB's need to lead a receiver over the defender on sideline patterns. I wish I had more game film here b/c Orton had the same tendencies here in Chicago last year. I still believe he needs to unlearn some bad coaching he received as a Bear. He still hesitates a bit too much, that's a product of what I call the "win to not lose mentality" system. He chucked those short passes hard b/c he made last minute decisions. That's one(among many)reasons why Cutler is completely lost right now in Chicago...same coaching staff that developed Orton.

Is it current play calling and the QB looking off receivers in Denver?...perhaps. But I like enough of what I see from Orton thus far to feel Denver certainly got the better end of the Cutler trade.

Foochacho
12-28-2009, 06:03 PM
I was screaming at the bar when orton didn't run for those 2 yards. It was wide open for a long time and he just sat still looking for someone to get open.

KCL
12-28-2009, 06:10 PM
Orten was throwing too hard for being less that ten yards from his reciever. Even a grade school kid can throw it too hard to catch if he is close enough to you. If we want to look at his intermediate to long range ability, there are other passes to look at. The pass that was picked off was a bit too short. The long incompletion to Marshall was thrown too late. It was not thrown away from the reciever.

IMO, Orten is not horrible at throwing the long ball but he does have timing and accuracy problems. It looks to me like he tends to underthrow the long ball. These may be from not being allowed to air it out in practice. . . or . . .not, since we don't get any feedback on what occurs in practice.

I believe that we need to throw long early to loosen up the D even if it is an incompletion.

That part there sounds familiar :whistle:

Superchop 7
12-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I'm not so sure that Kuper is a total loss. With harris on the outside there were few problems with pass protect or running to that side.

In most cases one weak link on either LINE every thing else is magnified. Now instead of just doing your job you have to over compensate the other way.

Kuper IMO is a good to great org just can't carry his load, polumbus and caseys also because casey is trying to cover for the OLG also.

Same goes for Clady because he has to help to his right OR dores not have that confidence or feel for what the guy next to him can or is going to do. He can't dominate like he did last year.

On the oline or dl you have to trust the guys next to you. It is necessary to have great timing and not have to hesitate even a fraction of a second as the guy in front of you at this level will kill you if you do.

That is why the great Olines have continuity. Maybe not even the best players at their spots. They just look great because they are a well oiled machine.

That is something we do not have yet. Josh in hois quest for bigger, stronger players set that back a bit. You can make one change on the line but to have harris and hamilton both out on a scheme change year was to much to overcome.

Take it from an old ORG the trust factor is huge. Any hesitation at this level is deadly.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

__________________________________________________ _______________________________________________

Mark the calendar.

I agree with JRWIZ

Elizabeth.......i'm comin for ya..........


:whoknows:

Superchop 7
12-28-2009, 06:20 PM
"arm of a muppet"

SC7

gregbroncs
12-28-2009, 06:22 PM
Or the one the Scheffer that got he laid out, that was TD if Orton had a little more arm.
Except that Sheffler screwed up on that play. How can you run away from the ball when it's in the air forever. The reciever has a clear advantage on underthrown balls and he completely screwed up. Also if Orton throws it out there farther it will be incomplete because Sheffler got blown up running full speed he should have slowed for the ball and made a damn play at it.

gregbroncs
12-28-2009, 06:32 PM
Overall this season has been better than I could have hoped for. This team needs to get more talent for sure but they are much better than the 2008 squad.

I am happy this team stayed in every game. (baltimore looked like a blowout but was close till the middle of the 3rd Q). And that they won as many games as they have. Somehow getting into the playoffs would be icing on the cake for me. Even if they get beat in the playoffs it is a start on what I hope will be an improving team for next year.

Dean
12-28-2009, 06:59 PM
Except that Sheffler screwed up on that play. How can you run away from the ball when it's in the air forever. The reciever has a clear advantage on underthrown balls and he completely screwed up. Also if Orton throws it out there farther it will be incomplete because Sheffler got blown up running full speed he should have slowed for the ball and made a damn play at it.

I agree that Shef should have altered his path to use his body. However, we were discussing the QB accuracy and you admitted that it was an underthrown ball. Right?:confused:

gregbroncs
12-28-2009, 07:09 PM
I agree that Shef should have altered his path to use his body. However, we were discussing the QB accuracy and you admitted that it was an underthrown ball. Right?:confused:That does not mean it was not a decent throw. Under throwing the ball there seemed to be the right play. Throw it out in front and the safety kills the receiver or picks it himself. Under throwing the ball is done on purpose on those long plays with the receiver having responsibility to adjust. i don't know if that was the case here or not but just blaming it on a bad or inaccurate throw when it's not clear is too simplistic. It was a bad play for the team for sure, I just think the receiver should and could have made a better effort for the ball, at least to knock it down.

LoyalSoldier
12-28-2009, 07:10 PM
Orton's arm strength isn't the issue as much as anytime I see him throw the long ball it is never where it needs to be. He has a better arm than Plummer, but worse accuracy on the deep ball.

Strange enough it only seems like the "over the top" passes that he has trouble with.

Dean
12-28-2009, 07:12 PM
i was mad as hell at hill for that weak effort-- it's pretty bad when the announcers are showing all the different angles and calling him out. . . it sure looked like he quit on the play. . . he hasn't been anything special this year, and after seeing that i'll be just as pleased if he's not back next season. . . i think mcbath and bruton have both shown some flashes when pressed into service. . . berry falling to us is probably a pipe dream, but i won't be upset if they give mcbath the first shot at winning the starting job next year. . . he's fast and athletic, and clearly has some ball skills. . .

and on that same third-and-two, i was screaming for orton to just take off-- he would've gotten the first easily. . . i'm NOT trying to blame him for the loss, at all-- there's more than enough to go around-- but i do think the contrast between mcnabb being able to take off and convert a damn 3rd-and-forever with his legs vs. orton being not running to get that easy first, and then trying to run on third-and-eight and not making it on the drive prior to their winning score is a good example of why i'd like to see us look in another direction for our long-term starting QB. . .

it's not orton's fault that he isn't more athletic, and some of the great QBs in the game aren't any more mobile than he is-- but when you throw the ball like a brady or manning, no one cares if you can run it or not. . . orton seems to need a near-perfect pocket to be effective, and the guy turtles the minute the protection breaks down. . .

I agree. All that is true. However, after having seen Simms Orten probably has been instructed to not take any hits. :whoknows:
:peep:

Day1BroncoFan
12-28-2009, 07:21 PM
Orton doesn't seem to be able to step up when we need him to. I too was mad at the third and two garbage play.

Simms is a waste of a roster spot. We need something.

dogfish
12-28-2009, 07:55 PM
I agree. All that is true. However, after having seen Simms Orten probably has been instructed to not take any hits. :whoknows:
:peep:

no doubt. . .


*sighs*

Broncoschic7
12-28-2009, 09:31 PM
As soon as I clicked on the video of Josh today my Jack Russell "Abby" took quick interest in what he was about to say,,,,....she's still miffed. ;-)

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/Broncoschic7/football%20pics/021.jpg

http://i160.photobucket.com/albums/t178/Broncoschic7/football%20pics/018.jpg

jjtodd5
12-28-2009, 09:40 PM
I agree. All that is true. However, after having seen Simms Orten probably has been instructed to not take any hits. :whoknows:
:peep:

Easy answer make Brandstater the second string!

broncophan
12-28-2009, 09:45 PM
at least the dog did not hike its leg......:)

red98
12-28-2009, 10:35 PM
Maybe the 2008 offense had better fantasy numbers, but it wasnt any better than this offense.

The 2008 offense was better in every stat. 3rd down %, red zone scoring, those aren't fantasy stats.

elsid13
12-28-2009, 10:41 PM
Except that Sheffler screwed up on that play. How can you run away from the ball when it's in the air forever. The reciever has a clear advantage on underthrown balls and he completely screwed up. Also if Orton throws it out there farther it will be incomplete because Sheffler got blown up running full speed he should have slowed for the ball and made a damn play at it.

Sheffer ran a double move on the DB. You don't throw behind receiver on double move (because the corner/safety you're hoping is trailing him), you put out in front of him and allow him to run under it. Orton had a window but he didn't pull the trigger, then floated a ball short.

topscribe
12-28-2009, 10:56 PM
Or the one the Scheffer that got he laid out, that was TD if Orton had a little more arm.

The problem is not "more arm." Orton has thrown the ball 74 yards, and he
threw it 65 on that Hail Mary pass in the NE game. So "more arm" is not the
problem.

However, the pass was still underthrown. Nonetheless, there was no chance of
completing it. Scheffler was double covered and just swarmed. Had Orton
thrown it higher (as he should have) it would have sailed out of bounds as an
incompletion.



Orton's arm strength isn't the issue as much as anytime I see him throw the long ball it is never where it needs to be. He has a better arm than Plummer, but worse accuracy on the deep ball.

Strange enough it only seems like the "over the top" passes that he has trouble with.

That may be a sign that Orton is aiming the ball instead of letting 'er rip.

Hopefully, they will address that in the offseason . . .

-----

topscribe
12-28-2009, 11:01 PM
I agree that Shef should have altered his path to use his body. However, we were discussing the QB accuracy and you admitted that it was an underthrown ball. Right?:confused:

Well actually, the general topic is "My observations of the Philly game."

So an observation on Scheffler's culpability is appropriate, isn't it?

-----

Lonestar
12-29-2009, 05:36 AM
Scheffler should have been more proactive. If your not able to get the #1 rule is make sure no one else does.

It almost seemed to me he was disinterested an going through the motions.

Running TWO WR's short should got his attention as Orton get me the ball. I was less than impressed with him this particular day.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

T.K.O.
12-29-2009, 02:02 PM
we played a tough team on the road and showed that even when down by 17 points ,this broncos team has "fight" in them....a couple plays and a couple calls cost us a sweet comeback victory.i was proud of the broncos effort and believe they will be a much more organized and synchronized team next year.
that being said i also think the jets and either houston ,pit or balt. will lose next week and we will be playing cincy in our 1st playoff game in 4 years !:beer::elefant::salute: