Who Can We View As a Possible Trade Partner?

[WARHORSE]

Looking at moving up or down, list your views on possible trade scenarios according to the different teams needs as well as draft positions.

I'll start with New England.

This team is going to have problems at cornerback. It also is going to have problems to navigate cap wise. Not that they dont have room, its just not that easy kickin out big money all the time. Bradys cap hit will be almost 15 million. Randy Moss will get at minimum a franchise tag. Asante Samuel is not quiet about wanting the biggest blockbuster deal he can get..........it wont be from in New England. Randall Gay, the opposite corner is also a free agent. In total they have 13 unrestricted free agents hitting the market this year.

Does anyone see the New England Patriots spending money on a rookie? I dont. And if their past history suggests any pattern towards what they might do this year, it will be trade down.

Theres 350 points between the 7th selection and the 12th selection. My thought, is that Dominique Foxworth fits right into that puzzle slot real nice. Foxworth in the hands of Belichicks defense will mean good play. Foxworth also has the team mentality that Belichick loves. He will play wherever the team asks. Defensively, no one can discount what Belichick is able to do with the talent available to him. Like Mike Shanahan with offensive players, Belichick gets the best out of his defensive warriors. He mentors them into a disciplined and mentally tough bunch.


Getting Foxworth is a comfortable coup for New England in their circumstance, and Denver getting draft flexibility at 7 is another coup. Now at this point in time, I dont think seven will be a whole lot different than 12 when it comes to Denvers needs, but Im sure that if the opportunity to get the top player on their board is there, they'll pull the trigger to move up a couple of spots. If not, then trade back down. If we had to select at 7, and no defensive lineman were there that we were lookin at, then Id say take Clady. When all is said and done, Im starting to think Clady is not going to be there at 12.

Im not sure this is what Denver will want to do, nor New England, its all speculation. But it is a possibility

[MOtorboat]

Why do we have to trade?

[WARHORSE]

Why do we have to trade?


We dont have to trade. Thats a different thread.:salute:

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Anyone who is possibly considering trading up or down.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think the Cowboys would be interested in a cornerback... if the Seahawks allow Trufant to hit the open market it would kill Foxworths trade value. Also I think the Saints and Dolphins will look for another CB.

As for our #12 pick... a team looking for a QB that may slide would probably be the only way we can trade back.... a team would have to be targeting someone and the only thing I can see as a possibility would be RB or QB. OL, DL, LB, S you would think the Broncos wouldn't want to trade back, they would go ahead and draft.

[WARHORSE]

I think the Cowboys would be interested in a cornerback... if the Seahawks allow Trufant to hit the open market it would kill Foxworths trade value. Also I think the Saints and Dolphins will look for another CB.

As for our #12 pick... a team looking for a QB that may slide would probably be the only way we can trade back.... a team would have to be targeting someone and the only thing I can see as a possibility would be RB or QB. OL, DL, LB, S you would think the Broncos wouldn't want to trade back, they would go ahead and draft.

Maybe Boss. But I think there are alot of players out there that will invigorate teams to move, especially after the combine. Somebody is going to have a nuts showing, and make everyone gaga. I hope its players that we dont need, especially cornerbacks.

As for Foxys value, I really dont think it will kill his value if Trufant comes out without a tag. Whoever signs him will have to give up some big bucks. Foxy will not demand that, and he can be signed for a good five years Im sure at a reduced rate. That would fit New Englands bill to the T.

[lex]

I mentioned St. Louis in the other thread but thats mainly in play if they are looking at drafting OL.

Buffalo needs a CB and a WR, voila, we have Walker and Foxworth as possible trade bait.

New Orleans needs a CB.

Dallas needs a CB and with Glenn moving on and Owens getting older they may also want a WR, although it seems more likely Dallas would take a WR in the draft.

New York Jets: Playing in the same division as New England might make them value CBs more ...plus Ive seen that some of their fans think they need a WR like Walker...whatever thats worth.

New England: Need a CB with Samuel leaving and with Welker and Moss (Im assuming theyll resign him) they may want Walker as another weapon to take some pressure of Moss...besides you often hear that New England scrutinizes draft picks based on whether or not they can play now...which might be the advantage of Moss/Foxworth. Plus Foxworth is a good soldier.

Atlanta: May want to move down because they feel they can get Brohm or Ryan at 12 and want to pick up value. If Atlanta is going QB, its kind of sensible for them to move down.

[MHCBill]

Foxworth sucks and he has no more than 5th round value.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking through orange-tinted glasses.

IMO

[MOtorboat]

I mentioned St. Louis in the other thread but thats mainly in play if they are looking at drafting OL.

Buffalo needs a CB and a WR, voila, we have Walker and Foxworth as possible trade bait.

New Orleans needs a CB.

Dallas needs a CB and with Glenn moving on and Owens getting older they may also want a WR, although it seems more likely Dallas would take a WR in the draft.

New York Jets: Playing in the same division as New England might make them value CBs more ...plus Ive seen that some of their fans think they need a WR like Walker...whatever thats worth.

New England: Need a CB with Samuel leaving and with Welker and Moss (Im assuming theyll resign him) they may want Walker as another weapon to take some pressure of Moss...besides you often hear that New England scrutinizes draft picks based on whether or not they can play now...which might be the advantage of Moss/Foxworth. Plus Foxworth is a good soldier.

Atlanta: May want to move down because they feel they can get Brohm or Ryan at 12 and want to pick up value. If Atlanta is going QB, its kind of sensible for them to move down.

Foxworth isn't the answer for any of these teams. Sorry, but that's just the reality. Would Foxworth, Javon, our first and our third (whoops, we don't have one of those) do the trick to move up? Maybe.

We don't have a lot of bargaining chips with just two first-day picks.

And moving down to take one of the Cowboys position by giving them another me-first wide receiver. I doubt Jerry Jones does that just to get to 12. If Jerry is going to do something, he'll make a splash.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think Denver will find a trade partner for Javon Walker... I think we might even be able to get a 4th rounder for him.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Foxworth sucks and he has no more than 5th round value.

Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking through orange-tinted glasses.

IMO

Foxworth is very good. He plays a very good corner... he struggles a bit at safety, but that is expected because he isn't a natural safety. He is being forced to play there. D.J. Williams sucked when he was at SAM, but we all know he doesn't suck... he just needs to play the position that is best suited for the type of player he is.

[WARHORSE]

Foxworth is very good. He plays a very good corner... he struggles a bit at safety, but that is expected because he isn't a natural safety. He is being forced to play there. D.J. Williams sucked when he was at SAM, but we all know he doesn't suck... he just needs to play the position that is best suited for the type of player he is.

I agree. Foxworth has had a good showing when asked to play corner. Not dominant, but good. Thats why teams were looking to trade for him. The thing is, is a cover two scheme, or Belicheats 3-4 flex, he could do very well.
He has very good short area quickness, and speed.

He made plays for us when playing the third corner. Problem is, hes been getting most of his time at safety.

Different teams will place varying value on him. We just need one team to want him.

As for Walker, lets just wait to see what the prognosis is on his knee. Thats going to determine alot.

[lex]

Foxworth isn't the answer for any of these teams. Sorry, but that's just the reality. Would Foxworth, Javon, our first and our third (whoops, we don't have one of those) do the trick to move up? Maybe.

We don't have a lot of bargaining chips with just two first-day picks.

And moving down to take one of the Cowboys position by giving them another me-first wide receiver. I doubt Jerry Jones does that just to get to 12. If Jerry is going to do something, he'll make a splash.

On the contrary. There are teams who need a CBs. Denver actually has decent guys at CB its just that everyone has a somewhat skewed perception due to the other problems weve had on defense.

[MOtorboat]

On the contrary. There are teams who need a CBs. Denver actually has decent guys at CB its just that everyone has a somewhat skewed perception due to the other problems weve had on defense.

That all may be true, but Foxworth will never be enough to help move us up in the first round. That won't happen.

A fifth-round pick/a package deal for a third...OK...but not in the first round.

[lex]

That all may be true, but Foxworth will never be enough to help move us up in the first round. That won't happen.

A fifth-round pick/a package deal for a third...OK...but not in the first round.


Now youre acting like the scenario we're discussing is Foxworth by himself. Its not. If youre one of these teams and you need a #2 corner or in some cases a good #3 (an AFC East team for example), trading down to 12 and picking up a player lets isnt so bad or so unthinkable. Essentially, it would leave you in a good draft position (depending on what youre targeting) while picking up Foxworth and saving other picks (since you wouldnt have to burn a pick on a CB).

[MOtorboat]

Now youre acting like the scenario we're discussing is Foxworth by himself. Its not. If youre one of these teams and you need a #2 corner or in some cases a good #3 (an AFC East team for example), trading down to 12 and picking up a player lets isnt so bad or so unthinkable. Essentially, it would leave you in a good draft position (depending on what youre targeting) while picking up Foxworth and saving other picks (since you wouldnt have to burn a pick on a CB).

Do you actually think that giving Foxworth and the No. 12 would be enough to move up? Seriously? He's, at best, worth a fifth round pick.

[lex]

Do you actually think that giving Foxworth and the No. 12 would be enough to move up? Seriously? He's, at best, worth a fifth round pick.


Yeah, I think Foxworth could help us move up. I completely disagree with your assessment of his worth.

[WARHORSE]

So do I.

Foxworth was a third round pick, now hes a veteran third round pick. And everyone has seen what he can do when given the chance. No one is claiming him to be Champ Bailey or even Dre Bly, but hes a good corner. He could start for a number of teams.
He had to start in place of Champ Bailey his rookie season.

Against KC, he had 2 tackles, one pass defensed-We had shut them down to 10 pts.

Against Jacksonville, 6 solo tackles, one INT 23 yds, and 1 pass defensed

Against Washington, 5 solo, 2 asst tackles, 1 pass defensed

Against NEW ENGLAND, 9 solo, 1 asst, one FF, and two passes defensed

Against the Giants, 6 solo tackles

Then against the Eagles, when Champ came back almost healed, he had 2 tackles, one INT, and 3 passes defensed.


Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie cornerback. Part of hit was the style of defense we were playing as well. I think the Dre Bly aquisition was as much about getting rid of Foster and Bell as getting a corner. We were looking to replace Darrent, not so much that Fox couldnt start in his place imo, but because we were trying to build for Indianapolis who had torched us twice.

Foxworth has value. He is a TEAM player.

[MOtorboat]

Straight up for him...we'll get nothing better than a fourth.

[Fan in Exile]

Straight up for him...we'll get nothing better than a fourth.

What is your reason for saying this?

[MOtorboat]

What is your reason for saying this?

Because of past trades...

Plus, the Broncos have no bargaining chips with him. Regardless of his skill level, or who's in front of him, he's still a backup player. Would you give a third round pick for a backup, who was unable to play the position he was given as a starter (safety)?

I think trading players for draft picks is going to be precarious this year because of the fourth-round pick that the Patriots gave up for Moss. I think a lot of teams are going to say, 'We're not giving up a third-rounder for Foxworth, when New England got Moss last year with a fourth."

Keep in mind, we're getting a fourth for a starter, in Gerard Warren, and we will get a fourth for a potential starter in Jake Plummer, if he ever shows up in Tampa.

Turns out maybe giving up a second for Javon was too high, doesn't it? I think trading players for picks is going to be hard this year. Boss also brought up the Marcus Trufant question. If Trufant and Asante Samuel hit the open market, I think teams are more likely (especially the likes of the Cowboys) to try and pay them, instead of trading draft picks to the Broncos for a backup.

[Fan in Exile]

Because of past trades...

Plus, the Broncos have no bargaining chips with him. Regardless of his skill level, or who's in front of him, he's still a backup player. Would you give a third round pick for a backup, who was unable to play the position he was given as a starter (safety)?

I think trading players for draft picks is going to be precarious this year because of the fourth-round pick that the Patriots gave up for Moss. I think a lot of teams are going to say, 'We're not giving up a third-rounder for Foxworth, when New England got Moss last year with a fourth."

Keep in mind, we're getting a fourth for a starter, in Gerard Warren, and we will get a fourth for a potential starter in Jake Plummer, if he ever shows up in Tampa.

Turns out maybe giving up a second for Javon was too high, doesn't it? I think trading players for picks is going to be hard this year. Boss also brought up the Marcus Trufant question. If Trufant and Asante Samuel hit the open market, I think teams are more likely (especially the likes of the Cowboys) to try and pay them, instead of trading draft picks to the Broncos for a backup.

Nothing you have said has changed my mind about getting a third for Foxy.

Your first point about him only being a back-up player and not being able to play safety. No one expected him to play safety it was out of position for him. The fact that he was willing to do it shows a great attitude that teams will be willing to trade for. That he was a back up player to two pro-bowlers this year isn't really going to discourage some team from taking a shot at a young guy who has shown a lot on the field and still has an upside.

Next you've got to understand that the Moss trade was a fluke. It isn't going to set any kind of standard for what people give up for players in the years to come. The Raiders had to get rid of him he cost way too much and was dogging it. There also weren't that many teams that wanted him, or that he would be willing to go to, which was key because no team would take him unless he re-did his contract. Those aren't normal situations. Keep in mind that same year the Pats themselves gave up a 2nd and a 7th for Welker. The Chargers also gave up a 2nd for Chambers. Those are two pretty proven starters so a third for a back-up/possible starter doesn't seem over blown.

We only got a 4th for Gerrard Warren but we lost out on that deal. He was gone because of the system Bates was putting in. By the time they traded him we didn't have time to shop him and a lot of teams were already set with what they were going to do at DT. Neither of those will be the case for Foxworth. This is the trade we got hosed on not the Walker trade.

Plummer also was in a different situation. He wasn't a young guy who could be with a team for years. He was an older guy who had lost his starting position to a rookie. Everybody knew that we had to cut him, he's the one we didn't have leverage with.

As far as the Trufant and Samuels situations their contracts given the recent CB market are going to be for something like 80 million. Some teams may prefer that too trading picks for Foxworth. But there are only two of them and CBs are in short supply. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody wanted to bring in a young mostly proven CB, especially if they were rebuilding and looking to win a year from now.

With all that being said we have leverage because we don't have to trade Foxworth. I for one don't think that we should unless we get a third for him.

[MHCBill]

Foxworth is very good. He plays a very good corner... he struggles a bit at safety, but that is expected because he isn't a natural safety. He is being forced to play there. D.J. Williams sucked when he was at SAM, but we all know he doesn't suck... he just needs to play the position that is best suited for the type of player he is.How "very good" is Foxy when the Broncos traded for Dre Bly?

If he is that "very good" I would have rather traded Bell and Foster for a #2 pick last year instead of Bly.

Sorry Boss, but I disagree this time. He's not very good IMO.

[MHCBill]

Yeah, I think Foxworth could help us move up. I completely disagree with your assessment of his worth.Lex, you're wrong.

Won't happen so I will have proof and you won't.

[MHCBill]

So do I.

Foxworth was a third round pick, now hes a veteran third round pick. And everyone has seen what he can do when given the chance. No one is claiming him to be Champ Bailey or even Dre Bly, but hes a good corner. He could start for a number of teams.
He had to start in place of Champ Bailey his rookie season.

Against KC, he had 2 tackles, one pass defensed-We had shut them down to 10 pts.

Against Jacksonville, 6 solo tackles, one INT 23 yds, and 1 pass defensed

Against Washington, 5 solo, 2 asst tackles, 1 pass defensed

Against NEW ENGLAND, 9 solo, 1 asst, one FF, and two passes defensed

Against the Giants, 6 solo tackles

Then against the Eagles, when Champ came back almost healed, he had 2 tackles, one INT, and 3 passes defensed.


Those are pretty good numbers for a rookie cornerback. Part of hit was the style of defense we were playing as well. I think the Dre Bly aquisition was as much about getting rid of Foster and Bell as getting a corner. We were looking to replace Darrent, not so much that Fox couldnt start in his place imo, but because we were trying to build for Indianapolis who had torched us twice.

Foxworth has value. He is a TEAM player.


You are over-valuing his worth.

He has value... at best a 5th round pick.

[MHCBill]

Nothing you have said has changed my mind about getting a third for Foxy.

Your first point about him only being a back-up player and not being able to play safety. No one expected him to play safety it was out of position for him. The fact that he was willing to do it shows a great attitude that teams will be willing to trade for. That he was a back up player to two pro-bowlers this year isn't really going to discourage some team from taking a shot at a young guy who has shown a lot on the field and still has an upside.

Next you've got to understand that the Moss trade was a fluke. It isn't going to set any kind of standard for what people give up for players in the years to come. The Raiders had to get rid of him he cost way too much and was dogging it. There also weren't that many teams that wanted him, or that he would be willing to go to, which was key because no team would take him unless he re-did his contract. Those aren't normal situations. Keep in mind that same year the Pats themselves gave up a 2nd and a 7th for Welker. The Chargers also gave up a 2nd for Chambers. Those are two pretty proven starters so a third for a back-up/possible starter doesn't seem over blown.

We only got a 4th for Gerrard Warren but we lost out on that deal. He was gone because of the system Bates was putting in. By the time they traded him we didn't have time to shop him and a lot of teams were already set with what they were going to do at DT. Neither of those will be the case for Foxworth. This is the trade we got hosed on not the Walker trade.

Plummer also was in a different situation. He wasn't a young guy who could be with a team for years. He was an older guy who had lost his starting position to a rookie. Everybody knew that we had to cut him, he's the one we didn't have leverage with.

As far as the Trufant and Samuels situations their contracts given the recent CB market are going to be for something like 80 million. Some teams may prefer that too trading picks for Foxworth. But there are only two of them and CBs are in short supply. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody wanted to bring in a young mostly proven CB, especially if they were rebuilding and looking to win a year from now.

With all that being said we have leverage because we don't have to trade Foxworth. I for one don't think that we should unless we get a third for him.No NFL team is trading a 3rd round pick for Dominique Foxworth.

Would you want the Broncos to?

Come on people, be realistic.

We would be going nuts trading a third round pick for a player that has been in the league for three years and isn't even a starter.

Dominique Foxworth has 5th round value tops!

[MOtorboat]

Nothing you have said has changed my mind about getting a third for Foxy.

Your first point about him only being a back-up player and not being able to play safety. No one expected him to play safety it was out of position for him. The fact that he was willing to do it shows a great attitude that teams will be willing to trade for. That he was a back up player to two pro-bowlers this year isn't really going to discourage some team from taking a shot at a young guy who has shown a lot on the field and still has an upside.

Next you've got to understand that the Moss trade was a fluke. It isn't going to set any kind of standard for what people give up for players in the years to come. The Raiders had to get rid of him he cost way too much and was dogging it. There also weren't that many teams that wanted him, or that he would be willing to go to, which was key because no team would take him unless he re-did his contract. Those aren't normal situations. Keep in mind that same year the Pats themselves gave up a 2nd and a 7th for Welker. The Chargers also gave up a 2nd for Chambers. Those are two pretty proven starters so a third for a back-up/possible starter doesn't seem over blown.

We only got a 4th for Gerrard Warren but we lost out on that deal. He was gone because of the system Bates was putting in. By the time they traded him we didn't have time to shop him and a lot of teams were already set with what they were going to do at DT. Neither of those will be the case for Foxworth. This is the trade we got hosed on not the Walker trade.

Plummer also was in a different situation. He wasn't a young guy who could be with a team for years. He was an older guy who had lost his starting position to a rookie. Everybody knew that we had to cut him, he's the one we didn't have leverage with.

As far as the Trufant and Samuels situations their contracts given the recent CB market are going to be for something like 80 million. Some teams may prefer that too trading picks for Foxworth. But there are only two of them and CBs are in short supply. It wouldn't surprise me if somebody wanted to bring in a young mostly proven CB, especially if they were rebuilding and looking to win a year from now.

With all that being said we have leverage because we don't have to trade Foxworth. I for one don't think that we should unless we get a third for him.

Agree to disagree, but I wouldn't get my hopes up...

[BOSSHOGG30]

No NFL team is trading a 3rd round pick for Dominique Foxworth.

Would you want the Broncos to?

Come on people, be realistic.

We would be going nuts trading a third round pick for a player that has been in the league for three years and isn't even a starter.

Dominique Foxworth has 5th round value tops!

I think Foxworth is at least worthy of a 4th rounder. Not many guys in the league who can play a decent safety and corner. His versatility will help him. I'm hoping the Broncos keep him... He is very good and shows promise. I also like Paymah. If I was to trade anyone it would be Bly.

[Fan in Exile]

No NFL team is trading a 3rd round pick for Dominique Foxworth.

Would you want the Broncos to?

Come on people, be realistic.

We would be going nuts trading a third round pick for a player that has been in the league for three years and isn't even a starter.

Dominique Foxworth has 5th round value tops!

I have no idea what you are even basing this on. 5th tops that's just insane. Even a back up has more value than that. You've got to learn to look deeper than just three years and he hasn't started.

He hasn't started because we neglect the D-line so much that we need superstar CB. He hasn't started because Shanahan seems to still be trying to beat the Colts.

I don't even know why you are asking if we would want to spend a third on him. We did when we drafted him. I thought it was a good idea then, and I still think it's a good idea. For a team that has a hole at CB and needs somebody solid I think it would be a good idea.

It seems to me that stars have gone for first rounders, and starters have gone for 2nd rounders. So why is it so hard to see a back up at a third rounder?

Who has been traded for a 5th rounder that you think compares to Foxworth?

[BOSSHOGG30]

He has 174 tackles and 3 interceptions in just 3 years... and he isn't even a starter

That is an average of 58 tackles a year.... not bad for a cornerback!

He is still young, very promising, and he will make at the very least a very good nickle back for someone... Hopefully the Broncos.

[MOtorboat]

Last year's trades:
Raiders send Randy Moss to New England for fourth round.
Seahawks send Darrell Jackson to 49ers for fourth round.
Lions send Mike Williams and Josh McCown to Raiders for fourth round.
Kansas City sends Dante Hall for a fifth round to the Rams, they swapped third rounders (Kansas City up two spots) in the deal.

[MHCBill]

Gerrard Warren (A STARTER) got traded for a fifth round pick.

Maybe you don't understand how the NFL works in regard to trades.

Teams look at market value? Do you know what that is? If not, market value represents what like product receives in the market place. No player of Dominique Foxworth's production gets traded for a third round pick or higher.

Sure, some team may over-value him (a stupid franchise) and if we could get that lucky I would jump all over it. But, it ain't gonna happen.

By the way, just because Foxworth was drafted in the third round does not mean he still holds that value or better. Would Ryan Leaf still be worth a #1 pick?

Lastly, a player that has three years playing time is not valued equally to a rookie due to contract obligations and more importantly future contract obligations. Foxworth will start demanding much larger cap dollars in the next year or two so a team that would be willing to trade for him would not only trade value in terms of the draft pick, but they also would have to be willing to spend "X" number of more dollars on him sooner rather than later with their own pick.

Foxworth's production does not warrant some team moving a third round pick, more cash, and his overall talent.

[MOtorboat]

Gerrard Warren (A STARTER) got traded for a fifth round pick.

Maybe you don't understand how the NFL works in regard to trades.

Teams look at market value? Do you know what that is? If not, market value represents what like product receives in the market place. No player of Dominique Foxworth's production gets traded for a third round pick or higher.

Sure, some team may over-value him (a stupid franchise) and if we could get that lucky I would jump all over it. But, it ain't gonna happen.

By the way, just because Foxworth was drafted in the third round does not mean he still holds that value or better. Would Ryan Leaf still be worth a #1 pick?

Lastly, a player that has three years playing time is not valued equally to a rookie due to contract obligations and more importantly future contract obligations. Foxworth will start demanding much larger cap dollars in the next year or two so a team that would be willing to trade for him would not only trade value in terms of the draft pick, but they also would have to be willing to spend "X" number of more dollars on him sooner rather than later with their own pick.

Foxworth's production does not warrant some team moving a third round pick, more cash, and his overall talent.

Last year, a former first rounder and a former third rounder were packaged together for a fourth....

[MHCBill]

I like Foxy as a back-up corner.

He sucks at safety.

I like the idea in nickel situations to use Dre on the slot and Paymah against the other outside receiver. This leaves Foxy has our fourth CB option. I'm okay with that. He plays good special teams and seems to be a great charachter guy.

Keep him and if we find some team stupid enough to deal a third round pick for him, I say jump all over it.

[mclark]

I don't see anyone licking their lips over Foxworth. He's a utility player. When DWilliams was killed, and Foxworth inherited his job, we traded for a cornerback as quickly as we could. The message there is that Foxworth couldn't handle the job of a starter. Sorry. I agree that Foxy's trade value has gone down since draft day.

[MOtorboat]

I don't see anyone licking their lips over Foxworth. He's a utility player. When DWilliams was killed, and Foxworth inherited his job, we traded for a cornerback as quickly as we could. The message there is that Foxworth couldn't handle the job of a starter. Sorry. I agree that Foxy's trade value has gone down since draft day.

The reality is that most players' value goes down the minute they are drafted in terms of trading for draft picks. It's kind of like the Blue Book value of a car. Young players, and draft picks are so highly valued in the NFL, that a decent player's value compared to a draft pick is low.

[MHCBill]

The reality is that most players' value goes down the minute they are drafted in terms of trading for draft picks. It's kind of like the Blue Book value of a car. Young players, and draft picks are so highly valued in the NFL, that a decent player's value compared to a draft pick is low.Perfectly put!!!

[lex]

Lex, you're wrong.

Won't happen so I will have proof and you won't.

OK, I'm still waiting for the proof.

[mclark]

The reality is that most players' value goes down the minute they are drafted in terms of trading for draft picks. It's kind of like the Blue Book value of a car. Young players, and draft picks are so highly valued in the NFL, that a decent player's value compared to a draft pick is low.

Warren for a fifth rounder. Randy Moss for what? 4th or 5th? Yes, there's little market for veteran NFL players, UNLESS they are free agents. It's a bit odd.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Last year's trades:
Raiders send Randy Moss to New England for fourth round.
Seahawks send Darrell Jackson to 49ers for fourth round.
Lions send Mike Williams and Josh McCown to Raiders for fourth round.
Kansas City sends Dante Hall for a fifth round to the Rams, they swapped third rounders (Kansas City up two spots) in the deal.

Randy Moss forced a trade to the Pats... he also had a lot of baggage and many questioned his motivation to play.

Darrell Jackson is considered a good wide out... not great, and he was injuried... also drops a lot of passes.

Mike Williams was washed up and Josh McCown is considered a back up at best.

Dante Hall is a kick and punt returner and that is it... plus he is injury prone.

Foxworth is a good kid, smart, still has potential. CB is a hard position to find. Teams are always looking for defensive backs. All this does is show me that Foxworth is at least worthy of a 4th rounder if not better.

[BOSSHOGG30]

If I was a team looking for a CB... would I be willing to give a 3rd or 4th rounder for Foxworth.... HECK YEAH!

[lex]

Warren for a fifth rounder. Randy Moss for what? 4th or 5th? Yes, there's little market for veteran NFL players, UNLESS they are free agents. It's a bit odd.

Randy Moss was worth a 4th because he was seen as a locker room cancer and it was also believed that his skills had diminished. It was more the former than the latter but nevertheless, he had baggage and thats why he was worth a 4th.

With Warren you have to look at whether or not a team was acuiring him or if it was more the case that a team was getting rid of him...and this was a player with a hefty contract mind you...heftier than what Foxworth is making as a 3rd Rd guy on his rookie contract.

Theres no uniform application here. Guys go at different spots for different reasons. To extrapolate the trade value of everyone based on the case of Randy Moss, lends itself to being highly erroneous. Could you imagine the conversation if GMs went by this logic in all cases? "Yes, Scott Pioli, we're offering you a 2nd round pick for Tom Brady. Yes, we feel its easy to justify due to the fact that Randy Moss was worth a 4th...and in our estimation Brady is twice as important, therefore he is worth a 2nd." That logic is so full of holes.

[BOSSHOGG30]

What I don't get is why teams are so stingy when it comes to draft picks, yet they have no problem over paying for someone.

[MHCBill]

OK, I'm still waiting for the proof.It has not happend so I have proof, you don't.

If it happens then you'll have proof.

This isn't hard... try and keep up please.

[lex]

It has not happend so I have proof, you don't.

If it happens then you'll have proof.

This isn't hard... try and keep up please.

You said youll have proof and that I wont and I said Im still waiting for the proof you claimed to have. Youve already exonerated me of the burden of providing proof removing the incentive to make any effort along those lines?

Still waiting.

[MHCBill]

What I don't get is why teams are so stingy when it comes to draft picks, yet they have no problem over paying for someone.I don't quite get that either.

I guess draft picks have an incredible amount of value to these teams. They must know more than us.

It has to come down to some kind of cost-benefit analysis. The return on their investment for draft picks must be ridiculously higher than with free agents.

I'm sure it comes down to money. Most bang for your buck.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I guess you can always rework a contract or have leverage in contract negotiations?

[MHCBill]

You said youll have proof and that I wont and I said Im still waiting for the proof you claimed to have. Youve already exonerated me of the burden of providing proof removing the incentive to make any effort along those lines?

Still waiting.
This is a simple concept for anyone above 3rd grade intelligence.

Have you ever heard of it being impossible to prove a negative?

Foxworth has NOT been traded for anything. (This is a positive statement)

Hence, it is proved.

Please, if you can't keep up intellectualy move along.

[BOSSHOGG30]

The Vikings aren't expected to part ways with Chester Taylor this offseason.

Unless they're offered a second-round pick on draft day, the Vikings will enter 2008 with Taylor as Adrian Peterson's primary backup. Coach Brad Childress says Taylor offers "a great changeup." Taylor will remain a solid mid- to late-round pick in points per reception leagues.
Source: Minneapolis Star-Tribune


2nd rounder for a back up runningback? 3rd or 4th rounder for Foxworth a potential #2 CB, at the very least a valuable nickel back?

[MHCBill]

I think Childress' point is that an overwhelming offer of a #2 pick would do it for them.

They certainly aren't expecting to get a #2, which they won't.

Same as me... I would trade Foxy for a #3 or higher in a heartbeat because I think he has less value than that.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I agree with MHC on this one. This cornerback class has depth and overall; I don't think Foxworth as a player will net that high of value. Good players get traded for much less, even better players than Foxworth. Maybe we'll find a sucker; but I don't see anyone giving up more than a #4 for him. If we got that, I'd take it.

[lex]

Foxworth sucks and he has no more than 5th round value.
Anyone who thinks otherwise is looking through orange-tinted glasses.

IMO


This is a simple concept for anyone above 3rd grade intelligence.

Have you ever heard of it being impossible to prove a negative?

Foxworth has NOT been traded for anything. (This is a positive statement)

Hence, it is proved.
Please, if you can't keep up intellectualy move along.

Try reconciling these two things.

[MHCBill]

Ok... I did.

Now what?

[lex]

I agree with MHC on this one. This cornerback class has depth and overall; I don't think Foxworth as a player will net that high of value. Good players get traded for much less, even better players than Foxworth. Maybe we'll find a sucker; but I don't see anyone giving up more than a #4 for him. If we got that, I'd take it.

Wow. Didnt you have him going for a 2nd in one of your mock drafts at OM?

[BOSSHOGG30]

I think Childress' point is that an overwhelming offer of a #2 pick would do it for them.

They certainly aren't expecting to get a #2, which they won't.

Same as me... I would trade Foxy for a #3 or higher in a heartbeat because I think he has less value than that.

I agree with you and that's what I'm saying... Someone might give a 3rd...which I would hope we take, but a 4th is more likely... if someone offers us a 5th... I would say no way.

I know a lot of people like Bly... I think he is very good, but I like CB that can tackle... I hope we trade Bly... he would get us a 3rd or 4th easy.

[mclark]

Randy Moss was worth a 4th because he was seen as a locker room cancer and it was also believed that his skills had diminished. It was more the former than the latter but nevertheless, he had baggage and thats why he was worth a 4th.

With Warren you have to look at whether or not a team was acuiring him or if it was more the case that a team was getting rid of him...and this was a player with a hefty contract mind you...heftier than what Foxworth is making as a 3rd Rd guy on his rookie contract.

Theres no uniform application here. Guys go at different spots for different reasons. To extrapolate the trade value of everyone based on the case of Randy Moss, lends itself to being highly erroneous. Could you imagine the conversation if GMs went by this logic in all cases? "Yes, Scott Pioli, we're offering you a 2nd round pick for Tom Brady. Yes, we feel its easy to justify due to the fact that Randy Moss was worth a 4th...and in our estimation Brady is twice as important, therefore he is worth a 2nd." That logic is so full of holes.

From the ridiculous to the more ridiculous. No one trades a Tom Brady. Of course, players who are being considered as trade material have worn out their welcome in one way or another to even be considered as trade bait.

Remember Al Wilson last year, before we all knew how hurt he was: Detroit was offering a 6th round pick for him.

It's true we wanted to get rid of Warren....but the fact that no one stood up, until the Raiders finally, and they offered a fourth rounder...tells you there is a stronger market for draft picks than for most veterans.

And Foxworth is not even a starter.

No team is going to trade a Tom Brady.

[lex]

From the ridiculous to the more ridiculous. No one trades a Tom Brady. Of course, players who are being considered as trade material have worn out their welcome in one way or another to even be considered as trade bait.

Remember Al Wilson last year, before we all knew how hurt he was: Detroit was offering a 6th round pick for him.
It's true we wanted to get rid of Warren....but the fact that no one stood up, until the Raiders finally, and they offered a fourth rounder...tells you there is a stronger market for draft picks than for most veterans.

And Foxworth is not even a starter.

No team is going to trade a Tom Brady.

Didnt I already say that different guys go for different reasons? And yet you feel compelled to revisit other scenarios. And whats more important to other teams...that Foxworth would be an improvement on what they have or that he doesnt start on a team that has Bailey and Bly as their corners? Its probably the former.

[lex]

Ok... I did.

Now what?

No, sorry you have not explained how we have no merit for saying Foxworth is worth a 3rd, yet you simultaneously say he's worth a 5th.

[MHCBill]

I agree with you and that's what I'm saying... Someone might give a 3rd...which I would hope we take, but a 4th is more likely... if someone offers us a 5th... I would say no way.

I know a lot of people like Bly... I think he is very good, but I like CB that can tackle... I hope we trade Bly... he would get us a 3rd or 4th easy.We do agree.

I don't want to shop Foxworth unless it helped us move up to get Dorsey or Ellis. (obviously in a package deal)

I wouldn't trade him for a fifth round, but I would for a third. He has value, im my opinion 5th round value.

The argument began when someone said that he had second round value. Whoever said that is smokin' crack!

[MHCBill]

No, sorry you have not explained how we have no merit for saying Foxworth is worth a 3rd, yet you simultaneously say he's worth a 5th.
Numbnutz... it's my opinion. Like you have one as well.

My proof is that until he's traded for a third round pick like you think he could be I am right.

If he gets traded for a third round pick then you'll have proof that you are right.

This is getting old. Let's agree to disagree about Foxworth's value and put it to bed.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Wow. Didnt you have him going for a 2nd in one of your mock drafts at OM?

Uh, no a fourth rounder? :/

[mclark]

Didnt I already say that different guys go for different reasons? And yet you feel compelled to revisit other scenarios. And whats more important to other teams...that Foxworth would be an improvement on what they have or that he doesnt start on a team that has Bailey and Bly as their corners? Its probably the former.

I'm not sure Foxworth is an improvement on what Dallas already has. And, if they need a cornerback, why not draft one with one of their two first round picks?

I don't think Foxy has much trade value but I could see him straight across for Carpenter, their linebacker.

[lex]

Numbnutz... it's my opinion. Like you have one as well.

My proof is that until he's traded for a third round pick like you think he could be I am right.

If he gets traded for a third round pick then you'll have proof that you are right.

This is getting old. Let's agree to disagree about Foxworth's value and put it to bed.

You should have just said that from the outset instead of putting on this nonsensical posturing.

[lex]

I'm not sure Foxworth is an improvement on what Dallas already has. And, if they need a cornerback, why not draft one with one of their two first round picks?

I don't think Foxy has much trade value but I could see him straight across for Carpenter, their linebacker.


Who said it has to be Dallas?

[mclark]

Who said it has to be Dallas?

Time will tell.

[turftoad]

I'm not sure Foxworth is an improvement on what Dallas already has. And, if they need a cornerback, why not draft one with one of their two first round picks?

I don't think Foxy has much trade value but I could see him straight across for Carpenter, their linebacker.

I'd go for that but I don't think Dallas would.

[mclark]

I'd go for that but I don't think Dallas would.

They might. He isn't really fitting in with Dallas -- and they have too many linebackers. They might think Foxworth brings them more depth where they need it.

[lex]

Uh, no a fourth rounder? :/

fair enough. I thought it was your mock that inspired the crack about Mock 101 teaching you that Foxworth is worth a 2nd.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

fair enough. I thought it was your mock that inspired the crack about Mock 101 teaching you that Foxworth is worth a 2nd.

Well, once again you think wrong.

[lex]

Well, once again you think wrong.

Actually, I was partially correct. It was in your thread that it did come up although they were initially complaining about something else that you did to move into the 3rd.

Remember this:


Originally Posted by eddie mac
What's with all this crap about trading next year's 1st rounder. The way we played this year it could be top 5 ffs.


When you make a mock, you have to trade next year's picks so you can get all the guys you want this year. It's Mock 101. Also in Mock 101, we learn that Javon Walker and Dominique Foxworth will each garner a low second or high third round draft pick.

[MHCBill]

Carpenter for Foxworth... yea, I'd do it.

Carpenter can play strong-side with DJ staying in the middle and Winborn going to weak.

Wouldn't make getting a LB early a priority.

[BOSSHOGG30]

Carpenter for Foxworth... yea, I'd do it.

Carpenter can play strong-side with DJ staying in the middle and Winborn going to weak.

Wouldn't make getting a LB early a priority.

I wouldn't put Carpenter at SAM... he would probably be better at WILL.

[MOtorboat]

I wouldn't put Carpenter at SAM... he would probably be better at WILL.

Whoo-hooo! More musical chairs at linebacker. Round and round they go, where they'll stop, no one knows!

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Foxxy would be valuable to Dallas because they could deepen their CBs w/o giving up a draft pick which they may wanna use to move up in the draft. They would simply shove off a LB who doesn't fit their scheme anyways. They also need insurance because Newman's foot injuy is apparently degenerative and Foxxy wouldn't be much of a dropoff if it becomes too problematic...like it almost did last year. Add to the fact that Anthony Henry has peaked and there are plenty of reasons Foxxy would work in Big D.

[WARHORSE]

How "very good" is Foxy when the Broncos traded for Dre Bly?

If he is that "very good" I would have rather traded Bell and Foster for a #2 pick last year instead of Bly.

Sorry Boss, but I disagree this time. He's not very good IMO.


Its not rocket science. There was a reason we drafted three corners in the 05 draft. 'A reason' was the Indianapolis Colts were terrorizing the AFC. More importantly.........us. We drafted three corners with the top three 10 yd times, cause we wanted quickness, and the ability to cover. Paymah wasnt up to par yet, and we lost Darrent.........hello?? Are we going to go into the season knowing we will probably have to go through Indy to get to the superbowl with Foxworth, Champ and Paymah as the third? It was our third corner that got torched each time. We had the luxury of having Foxworth on the roster with Darrent here. Bly was not only due to the need, but because he was avialable for Foster and Bell. It was a deal where all the pieces for both sides fit and made it happen.

In my opinion, when given the chance at corner, he has produced. The facts would support this as well.

[Lonestar]

Let get back to topic please

Who Can We View As a Possible Trade Partner?

Someone mentioned that Dallas was looking for a WR McFadden goes to DAL if Jerry has anything to say about it.. he loves those razorbacks.

I'd take our #12 and Foxworth for any move into the top ten in a heart beat but alas I do not think anyone is dumb enough..

If we could get to 6-7 great. It then raises alot of other options If the guy we want is not available.. Could turn the 6-7 into a 15 or later and a #2 or 3..

We need either top quality DT or a lot of extra choices.. on day one..

[Stargazer]

Looking at moving up or down, list your views on possible trade scenarios according to the different teams needs as well as draft positions.

I'll start with New England.

This team is going to have problems at cornerback. It also is going to have problems to navigate cap wise. Not that they dont have room, its just not that easy kickin out big money all the time. Bradys cap hit will be almost 15 million. Randy Moss will get at minimum a franchise tag. Asante Samuel is not quiet about wanting the biggest blockbuster deal he can get..........it wont be from in New England. Randall Gay, the opposite corner is also a free agent. In total they have 13 unrestricted free agents hitting the market this year.

Does anyone see the New England Patriots spending money on a rookie? I dont. And if their past history suggests any pattern towards what they might do this year, it will be trade down.

Theres 350 points between the 7th selection and the 12th selection. My thought, is that Dominique Foxworth fits right into that puzzle slot real nice. Foxworth in the hands of Belichicks defense will mean good play. Foxworth also has the team mentality that Belichick loves. He will play wherever the team asks. Defensively, no one can discount what Belichick is able to do with the talent available to him. Like Mike Shanahan with offensive players, Belichick gets the best out of his defensive warriors. He mentors them into a disciplined and mentally tough bunch.


Getting Foxworth is a comfortable coup for New England in their circumstance, and Denver getting draft flexibility at 7 is another coup. Now at this point in time, I dont think seven will be a whole lot different than 12 when it comes to Denvers needs, but Im sure that if the opportunity to get the top player on their board is there, they'll pull the trigger to move up a couple of spots. If not, then trade back down. If we had to select at 7, and no defensive lineman were there that we were lookin at, then Id say take Clady. When all is said and done, Im starting to think Clady is not going to be there at 12.

Im not sure this is what Denver will want to do, nor New England, its all speculation. But it is a possibility

Foxy is worth 5 spots in the 1st round?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Oh, how many of these can I use in one post.

[Lonestar]

Foxy is worth 5 spots in the 1st round?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Oh, how many of these can I use in one post.


I think there is an old adage "there is one born every minute" It would apply if anyone was that big a sucker..

But someone might need that CB that I personally find as a waste of a pick other than a ST player at best, perhaps a disaster FS..

Maybe in another system a player but certainly has shown little as being a CB that can do anything but make a tackle after he allowed the catch..

Since it is Lent I'd take a fillet o fish instead of a ham sandwich for him if we can get it..

[CoachChaz]

I think trading up to #8 would work. IF Ellis falls, he WILL NOT get past Cincy. Baltimore is most likely looking QB or LT and they could still get their guy at #12.

[YoungMoneyMay]

I think we should stay where were at. One of the big 3-4 guys who im sure is on the Broncos board is going to fall in our laps. Im thinking Clady,Ellis,Phillips,Long, One of them will fall to 12 or maybe even a few picks back. So if we can trade back a few spots and get one of those guys then im all for it. If not just sit there and take Clady. Clady is a BEAST

[WARHORSE]

Here is another team that is ripe for dealing with according to their needs and ours. Javon is an interest for them, and so too would be Foxworth. What could we gain in return for them from Washington? A first rounder of course...........its Washington.



Wide Receivers

Acquiring an elite receiver is Snyder's top priority, league sources said. The Bengals have said they have no intention of trading Johnson, but his agent, Drew Rosenhaus, is working quietly to broker a deal, the sources said.


Johnson is a game-breaker who is strong and, at 6 feet 1, has the kind of size the Redskins' wide receivers lack. But his quick tongue and clashes with coaches have caused turmoil with Cincinnati. If he is traded, two general managers estimated it would take a low first-round and a third-round pick, or perhaps two second-round picks, to land him.
New England (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/New+England+Patriots?tid=informline) is likely to put a franchise tag on Randy Moss (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Randy+Moss?tid=informline), retaining his rights, while less-stellar wide receivers such as Jerry Porter (Oakland (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Oakland?tid=informline)) and Javon Walker (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Javon+Walker?tid=informline) (Denver (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Denver?tid=informline)) could be possibilities. Johnson, however, would be Snyder's ideal acquisition, according to multiple sources.
"He made it very clear that was his top choice," one coaching candidate said.
Brandon Lloyd (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Brandon+Lloyd?tid=informline) is almost certain to be released, according to sources who have talked to Snyder and Cerrato. Veteran Keenan McCardell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Keenan+McCardell?tid=informline) is also unlikely to be back. James Thrash (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/James+Thrash?tid=informline), a special teams standout for Gibbs, might not return, and concerns over chronic knee problems could mean that reserve Reche Caldwell (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Reche+Caldwell?tid=informline) also will not be re-signed.
Veterans Santana Moss (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Santana+Moss?tid=informline) and Antwaan Randle El (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Antwaan+Randle+El?tid=informline) need to overcome injuries that plagued them last season. Team sources said Snyder is considering expanding his training rehab staff to help limit and cope with the number of hamstring issues, which were prevalent on the team in 2007.

Defensive backs

Cornerback Carlos Rogers (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Carlos+Rogers+(Football)?tid=informline) is coming off major knee surgery and will have to feel his way through the first half of the season. Rogers was not progressing well in his rehabilitation until very recently, making the addition of a young cornerback another priority. Leigh Torrence (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Leigh+Torrence?tid=informline) and John Eubanks (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/John+Eubanks?tid=informline) would be pushed if a new cornerback joins the roster. Blache has told others he believes it is imperative that Springs is re-signed. Starting cornerback Fred Smoot (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Fred+Smoot?tid=informline) also returns after a strong finish last season.
Young safeties LaRon Landry (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/LaRon+Landry?tid=informline) and Reed Doughty (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Reed+Doughty?tid=informline) played well in the aftermath of Sean Taylor (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Sean+Taylor+(Football)?tid=informline)'s death. Landry is bordering on stardom and several NFL (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/National+Football+League?tid=informline) executives praised Doughty's development. Veteran safety Pierson Prioleau (http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/related/topic/Pierson+Prioleau?tid=informline), a free agent and another of Williams's proteges, could decide to join the Redskins' former assistant head coach-defense in Jacksonville.

[WARHORSE]

Foxy is worth 5 spots in the 1st round?:laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh::laugh: Oh, how many of these can I use in one post.


Probably not going to happe, true. That would put Foxy in a low second round category........not his rate. I dont see NE picking at that slot, and wanting to move. Speculation as I said. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder............ Foxworth fits their mold.

To a T.;)

[Broncolingus]

Who Can We View As a Possible Trade Partner?

...any team stupid enough to give us anything worthwhile for Henry, Walker, and Gold.