Offical Chicago Cubs Thread

[Cutler6MVP]

I feel left out, my boys, the Chicago Cubs do not have a thread. I sure hope that there are others here who are Cub fans.

Lets start talking Cubs baseball boys!!!

[sneakers]

Booooo! Go Brewers!!

[Broncospsycho77]

I went to a Cubs game once at Wrigley... best ballpark I've ever been to... everything was ideal there...

Haven't been to Fenway or Yankee Stadium yet, but Wrigley is the perfect baseball atmosphere to me.

Go Rockies.

[Cutler6MVP]

Booooo! Go Brewers!!


Brewers suck.......

boooooo

[lex]

Im a Cubs fan. I actually live about a mile from Wrigley. I really hope they dont change the name of the ballpark. I also have a bad feeling Seligs old cronie, Canning, is going to buy the team.

[sneakers]

Im a Cubs fan. I actually live about a mile from Wrigley. I really hope they dont change the name of the ballpark. I also have a bad feeling Seligs old cronie, Canning, is going to buy the team.

White Castle Field has my vote.

[Cutler6MVP]

Wrigley is a landmark, they would never switch the name of the park. They would make a new ballpark before they gave it a new name.

[Cutler6MVP]

Camp has started, get excited Cubs fans!!!!

We need Roberts in a Cubs uniform.... Get it done Hendry!!!

[lex]

Camp has started, get excited Cubs fans!!!!

We need Roberts in a Cubs uniform.... Get it done Hendry!!!

No way! They were talking about giving up Marshall and Gallagher for him and we already have DeRosa.

[BroncoBJ]

I went to a Cubs game once at Wrigley... best ballpark I've ever been to... everything was ideal there...

Haven't been to Fenway or Yankee Stadium yet, but Wrigley is the perfect baseball atmosphere to me.

Go Rockies.

Yea I've been to those 3. I like A lot about Wrigley except the old school scoreboard. It pisses me off for some reason :lol:

I could be biased and say I just like Yankee stadium the best but I dont know.
All 3 of those stadiums are really nice though.

I havn't decided yet what my favorite stadium is. :elefant:

[lex]

Yea I've been to those 3. I like A lot about Wrigley except the old school scoreboard. It pisses me off for some reason :lol:

I could be biased and say I just like Yankee stadium the best but I dont know.
All 3 of those stadiums are really nice though.

I havn't decided yet what my favorite stadium is. :elefant:



Wrigley is the best of the three. My g/f had some friends come out and we went to a game at Wrigley a couple of years ago and I was telling them that one of the reasons I like Wrigley more than Fenway is that at Wrigley, more than any stadium, it feels like its part of the neighborhood. The neighborhood spills into the stadium and the stadium spills out into the neighborhood. I was talking about this as we were walking to the game and all I heard was "they have bars outside of Fenway" and I was like, "its not the same." They kept protesting as it was a challenge to their belief system that Fenway was the end all, be all. That is, they kept protesting until we arrived at the ballpark and stopped for a beer and they saw what I was talking about. They had a great time and never again did I hear any form of protest.

[Cutler6MVP]

No way! They were talking about giving up Marshall and Gallagher for him and we already have DeRosa.

So what, neither of those pitchers are better than a #3 or #4 starter if that. Id would happily trade away those players for a player of Roberts caliber.

We need a leadoff hitter, and someone who can steal some bases, espically with Soriano still hurting.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I'm a big time Cubs fan since 1984. This is the year baby!

Roberts would be nice, but I was really hoping they could have got Bedard from the O's. I read somewhere that was the deal they were trying to make and Roberts was included, but the O's wouldn't bite.

Interesting to see how Fukadome does. Love the name.

[sneakers]

No way! They were talking about giving up Marshall and Gallagher for him and we already have DeRosa.


Gallagher?

http://www.timtoon.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/gallagher.jpg

[CoachChaz]

So what, neither of those pitchers are better than a #3 or #4 starter if that. Id would happily trade away those players for a player of Roberts caliber.

We need a leadoff hitter, and someone who can steal some bases, espically with Soriano still hurting.

Between the Atros trade, the Seattle trade and their own farm system, the O's a FULL of young arms. While Gallagher and Marshall are a more immediate fix, they don't really need more young pitching. A deal for Roberts may include one of the two, but will also have to include 2 of either Murton, Pie, Patterson

[lex]

So what, neither of those pitchers are better than a #3 or #4 starter if that. Id would happily trade away those players for a player of Roberts caliber.

We need a leadoff hitter, and someone who can steal some bases, espically with Soriano still hurting.

OK, you act like the #3 and #4 starters arent important. And besides, Felix Pie might enter the fold this year.

[lex]

Between the Atros trade, the Seattle trade and their own farm system, the O's a FULL of young arms. While Gallagher and Marshall are a more immediate fix, they don't really need more young pitching. A deal for Roberts may include one of the two, but will also have to include 2 of either Murton, Pie, Patterson

Keep dreaming on Pie. You can have Murton though.

[Cutler6MVP]

OK, you act like the #3 and #4 starters arent important. And besides, Felix Pie might enter the fold this year.

Not when youre getting a premiere 2B like Roberts. We can get a buttload of #3's and #4's. Let them go.

[Cutler6MVP]

Keep dreaming on Pie. You can have Murton though.

The Cubs already said they will not budge on Pie.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Is that idiot Pinella still planing on a lineup where he has Soriano hitting 1st, then Theriot, then Lee, then Ramirez, followed up by Fukadome? Why the hell is Fukadome hitting 5th when neither Soriano or Theriot have great OBP's? Oh, because Soriano is fast and he doesn't want to hurt his ego having him hit 2nd. Kinda like playing Soriano in CF.

[lex]

Not when youre getting a premiere 2B like Roberts. We can get a buttload of #3's and #4's. Let them go.

Im not so sure he's a premier player.

[Cutler6MVP]

Im not so sure he's a premier player.

You need to go back and look at his stats then my friend.

[lex]

You need to go back and look at his stats then my friend.

He has a good OBP, typically a decent AVG, and can steal a base...which is a need. I wouldnt call him premier though. Its more about complimentary skills but what Baltimore is asking is too much. Id gladly trade a pitcher and Murton, though. But not 2 pitchers.

[CoachChaz]

He has a good OBP, typically a decent AVG, and can steal a base...which is a need. I wouldnt call him premier though. Its more about complimentary skills but what Baltimore is asking is too much. Id gladly trade a pitcher and Murton, though. But not 2 pitchers.

I'm an Orioles fan first and probably a Cubs fan 2nd. As an O's fan, I'd hate to lose Roberts. When you refer to him as a premier player, you have to look at his stats amongst other 2nd basemen and amongst leadoff hitters.

With all the arms we got in the other 2 trades, we don't need alot more, but one of Gallagher or Marshall will HAVE to be a part of the deal. If Pie is untouchable, then the Cubs would have to add Murton and probably Patterson. Remember...this is one of the best 2nd basemen in the game. After Utley, Phillips, Cano, Polanco...he's easily a top 5 player at the position and unlike the others...he can leadoff and steal bases regularly.

I really don't want them to deal him, but if they do...I'd prefer to see him with the Cubs

[lex]

I'm an Orioles fan first and probably a Cubs fan 2nd. As an O's fan, I'd hate to lose Roberts. When you refer to him as a premier player, you have to look at his stats amongst other 2nd basemen and amongst leadoff hitters.

No, because we'd be targeting a lead off hitter. The fact that he plays 2B is secondary. We need a leadoff hitter more than we need a 2B.



With all the arms we got in the other 2 trades, we don't need alot more, but one of Gallagher or Marshall will HAVE to be a part of the deal. If Pie is untouchable, then the Cubs would have to add Murton and probably Patterson.
Sorry, its only worth Gallagher or Marshall and Murton. Its more important for the Cubs to ask what its worth for them to acquire a leadoff hitter than it is to evaluate whats fair for Baltimore to ask. If Baltimore is asking more than what its worth in terms of the Cubs satisfying a need, then they shouldnt pull the trigger.


Remember...this is one of the best 2nd basemen in the game. After Utley, Phillips, Cano, Polanco...he's easily a top 5 player at the position and unlike the others...he can leadoff and steal bases regularly.

Again, we need a lead off hitter more than a 2B.


I really don't want them to deal him, but if they do...I'd prefer to see him with the Cubs

Easy for you to say. Youre not subjected to the day-to-day reporting that goes on with the Cubs and Ive already had my fill of the steroids thing and you know its going to come up where Roberts is concerned when theres a slow news day. That kind of stuff may not make its way to where you are but its prevalent here and Id rather not be subjected to it. Like I said, Pie actually might do well in the leadoff spot. We need to wait and see though.

[CoachChaz]

DeRosa is okay offensively, but still not what Roberts is. Add to the fact his fielding is suspect and he's 32. Fontenot is nothing but a back-up and has hands of stone. Theriot has speed but offers nothing offensively unless he gets walked.

So basically, you are betting that Patterson or Cedeno are the answer.

With Roberts, you upgrade your leadoff spot, SB's, 2nd base defense and offensive production from the position. So, for a top 4 2nd baseman, you aren't willing to give up a maybe in Patterson, your 4th outfielder in Murton and one of 2 young prospect pitchers that won't even see the mound this year because of the rotation of Zambrano, Marquis, Lilly, Lieber and one of Gallagher or Marshall.

That is the definition of being a homer. To be honest, as an Oriole fan, I'd be hesitant to accept that deal for Roberts to begin with, so it surprises me that a Cub fan would turn it down.

[lex]

DeRosa is okay offensively, but still not what Roberts is. Add to the fact his fielding is suspect and he's 32. Fontenot is nothing but a back-up and has hands of stone. Theriot has speed but offers nothing offensively unless he gets walked.

Gotta love hyperbole.


So basically, you are betting that Patterson or Cedeno are the answer.

No, Im content with DeRosa at second if Pie does well.


With Roberts, you upgrade your leadoff spot, SB's, 2nd base defense and offensive production from the position. So, for a top 4 2nd baseman, you aren't willing to give up a maybe in Patterson, your 4th outfielder in Murton and one of 2 young prospect pitchers that won't even see the mound this year because of the rotation of Zambrano, Marquis, Lilly, Lieber and one of Gallagher or Marshall.

This is the only thing the Cubs should be worried about. DeRosa is a serviceable 2B. Admittedly he's not as good as Roberts but we dont have to give up two good arms to get DeRosa either. Not worth it.

And, btw, Dempster is supposed to be a starter too. But a young arm is worth more than a 2B.


That is the definition of being a homer. To be honest, as an Oriole fan, I'd be hesitant to accept that deal for Roberts to begin with, so it surprises me that a Cub fan would turn it down.

Id rather see how Pie does. And evaluaing a trades worth by what you want out of it, is hardly homerish.

[CoachChaz]

Gotta love hyperbole.



No, Im content with DeRosa at second if Pie does well.



This is the only thing the Cubs should be worried about. DeRosa is a serviceable 2B. Admittedly he's not as good as Roberts but we dont have to give up two good arms to get DeRosa either. Not worth it.

And, btw, Dempster is supposed to be a starter too. But a young arm is worth more than a 2B.



Id rather see how Pie does. And evaluaing a trades worth by what you want out of it, is hardly homerish.

So you would rather have 2 unproven arms that may not see the roster this year and a "servicacle 2nd baseman as opposed to keeping one of those arms and getting an All-Star 2nd baseman? Interesting

[lex]

So you would rather have 2 unproven arms that may not see the roster this year and a "servicacle 2nd baseman as opposed to keeping one of those arms and getting a good leadoff hitter? Interesting

fixed

[CoachChaz]

fixed

.377 obp, .808 OPS and 50 SB's is a "good" leadoff hitter?

You keep trying to minimalize this whole thing to convince yourself it's a bad deal, but until the Cubs make smart moves like this as opposed to spending money on FA's every year...thery're screwed.

[lex]

.377 obp, .808 OPS and 50 SB's is a "good" leadoff hitter?

You keep trying to minimalize this whole thing to convince yourself it's a bad deal, but until the Cubs make smart moves like this as opposed to spending money on FA's every year...thery're screwed.

Thats a very good season but theres not guarantee he will do that again. And Im not trying to minimalize anything. All I really would like him for is to lead off and not give up the farm for him...and honestly, I dont think he is worth what theyre asking.

Dont be upset just because Im not enamored with your guy the same way you are.

[studbucket]

Alright, I'm not gonna troll, so you won't hear from me again, but I have to say it once:
--------
Hot damn I hate the Cubs! 95% of their fanbase wanders around and can't name the starting right fielder. They're all wearing their Prior and Sosa jerseys, oblivious to the fact they are long gone. There are some good Cubs fans, I am friends with a few. But the rest, the uneducated trolls, and the most insufferable group of fans in the country! Cubs fans are the sole reason I hate the Bears.
--------
Have a good day guys, and here's some good competition in the NL Central, it's gonna be interesting. Go Brewers.

[BigDaddyBronco]

The Brewers should have been contracted a few years ago. What a joke. Include the Marlins and Rays while your at it.

The Cubbies do have a lot of fans that go to Wrigley to party. However, I sure see a lot of Cubs fans in Milwaukee when they play the Brewers or when I have gone to Houston to see a Cubs-Astros series almost 1/4 of the fans are wearing Cubs colors.

[CoachChaz]

Thats a very good season but theres not guarantee he will do that again. And Im not trying to minimalize anything. All I really would like him for is to lead off and not give up the farm for him...and honestly, I dont think he is worth what theyre asking.

Dont be upset just because Im not enamored with your guy the same way you are.

LOL...I'm not the one refusing to give up a 4th outfielder, hack 2nd baseman and unproven pitcher for an All-Star 2nd baseman. Truth be told, I'd rather keep Roberts than trade him for that sorry package. Good luck getting anyone on base for Lee and Ramirez to drive in. Theriot and Soriano and their whopping .330 OBPs aren't going to cut it.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I'm not in love with Roberts either. But the Cubs have to get some guys on base at the top of the order, especially in the playoffs. My heart can't take another playoff series like last year.

I'm hoping Fukadome is as advertised and can hit #1 or 2. Then Theriot can slip down in the lineup.

[lex]

Alright, I'm not gonna troll, so you won't hear from me again, but I have to say it once:
--------
Hot damn I hate the Cubs! 95% of their fanbase wanders around and can't name the starting right fielder. They're all wearing their Prior and Sosa jerseys, oblivious to the fact they are long gone. There are some good Cubs fans, I am friends with a few. But the rest, the uneducated trolls, and the most insufferable group of fans in the country! Cubs fans are the sole reason I hate the Bears.
--------
Have a good day guys, and here's some good competition in the NL Central, it's gonna be interesting. Go Brewers.

If theres anyone that should hold a grudge its Cubs fans. Both the White Sox and the Brewers have been leeching off of Cubs fans. Most years, when the Cubs play at Milwaukee, its mostly Cubs fans...they moved to the national league so they can profit from playing the Cubs.

[lex]

LOL...I'm not the one refusing to give up a 4th outfielder, hack 2nd baseman and unproven pitcher for an All-Star 2nd baseman. Truth be told, I'd rather keep Roberts than trade him for that sorry package. Good luck getting anyone on base for Lee and Ramirez to drive in. Theriot and Soriano and their whopping .330 OBPs aren't going to cut it.

Like I said, dont get upset just because Im not enamored with your second baseman. Im perfectly willing to see how Pie does. Roberts may not even be necessary.

[Cutler6MVP]

He has a good OBP, typically a decent AVG, and can steal a base...which is a need. I wouldnt call him premier though. Its more about complimentary skills but what Baltimore is asking is too much. Id gladly trade a pitcher and Murton, though. But not 2 pitchers.

When theres a lack of 2B's out there that are good, hes premiere. The guy is one of the best 2Bs in the league right now.

[Cutler6MVP]

No, because we'd be targeting a lead off hitter. The fact that he plays 2B is secondary. We need a leadoff hitter more than we need a 2B.



Sorry, its only worth Gallagher or Marshall and Murton. Its more important for the Cubs to ask what its worth for them to acquire a leadoff hitter than it is to evaluate whats fair for Baltimore to ask. If Baltimore is asking more than what its worth in terms of the Cubs satisfying a need, then they shouldnt pull the trigger.



Again, we need a lead off hitter more than a 2B.



Easy for you to say. Youre not subjected to the day-to-day reporting that goes on with the Cubs and Ive already had my fill of the steroids thing and you know its going to come up where Roberts is concerned when theres a slow news day. That kind of stuff may not make its way to where you are but its prevalent here and Id rather not be subjected to it. Like I said, Pie actually might do well in the leadoff spot. We need to wait and see though.

Let them have Patterson as well, hes not going to be anything special. time and time again we save players who we think will be good and are not. There is nothing special about Patterson.

[Cutler6MVP]

DeRosa is okay offensively, but still not what Roberts is. Add to the fact his fielding is suspect and he's 32. Fontenot is nothing but a back-up and has hands of stone. Theriot has speed but offers nothing offensively unless he gets walked.

So basically, you are betting that Patterson or Cedeno are the answer.

With Roberts, you upgrade your leadoff spot, SB's, 2nd base defense and offensive production from the position. So, for a top 4 2nd baseman, you aren't willing to give up a maybe in Patterson, your 4th outfielder in Murton and one of 2 young prospect pitchers that won't even see the mound this year because of the rotation of Zambrano, Marquis, Lilly, Lieber and one of Gallagher or Marshall.

That is the definition of being a homer. To be honest, as an Oriole fan, I'd be hesitant to accept that deal for Roberts to begin with, so it surprises me that a Cub fan would turn it down.

DeRosa's defense is bad?

Ummm, I think not.

[lex]

When theres a lack of 2B's out there that are good, hes premiere. The guy is one of the best 2Bs in the league right now.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/premier

[lex]

DeRosa's defense is bad?

Ummm, I think not.

This is what Im saying. We need a leadoff hitter more than a second baseman. If Pie pulls through, we'd be able to hold on to our pitcher(s).

[lex]

Ive been in the waiting room several hours now.

[Cutler6MVP]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/premier

You're looking at the term premiere with too much depth. Im using it rather loosely. Would you call Matt Holliday a premier OF? I think I would, and hes not the BEST at his position.

[lex]

You're looking at the term premiere with too much depth. Im using it rather loosely. Would you call Matt Holliday a premier OF? I think I would, and hes not the BEST at his position.

I wouldnt use the word "elite" in that case. Yes, I would say Holliday is an elite outfielder. At least he was last season.

[studbucket]

The Brewers should have been contracted a few years ago. What a joke. Include the Marlins and Rays while your at it.

The Cubbies do have a lot of fans that go to Wrigley to party. However, I sure see a lot of Cubs fans in Milwaukee when they play the Brewers or when I have gone to Houston to see a Cubs-Astros series almost 1/4 of the fans are wearing Cubs colors.

Hey if you meant to bother me, you should know Brewer fans can't be insulted. Our team has been so bad for so long it doesn't affect us. I can't talk smack about football because I can't take people talking bad about the Broncos, but the Brewers it's easy, mainly because they speak the truth. The Brewers suck, but I love them.

In terms of contraction, just ask MB, I think the MLB desperately needs contraction, and a good argument can be made for the Brewers to be one of the teams. That would suck for me, but I can't make a great case against it when compared to 20-25 other teams in the league.

I go to the University of Iowa, there are some Brewers, some White Sox, some Twins, some Cardinals, 3 Royals fans, and then a Zerg swarm of Cubs fans. Parading around, no idea who is on their team, blind loyalty saying the 'Sox Suck' or 'Brewers Suck', but never being able to take any heat on their own team or back it up. It's so easy to mess with them.

You may not be in that fan category (as I said, I have Cubs fan friends who aren't), but you can't take away my experiences in Iowa.

[CoachChaz]

What on Earth makes you think Pie will be a leadoff hitter? If they put him in that spot, it will be a true waste of his run producing ability. Not to mention...he's not a great base stealing threat and will not have high OBP numbers.

DeRosa's defense is good? He's a 33 year old career platoon player with the range of a moose. His errors are only limited because of his inability to even attempt to get to most of the balls that a solid 2B can. Accepting mediocrity is the reason the Cubs are always where they are.

[lex]

Well, I was able to get through today. I tried 3 different games only to discover they didnt have 2 seats together...so back to the waiting room. After 2 unsuccessful attempts I was able to get 5/30 tickets for Friday vs the Rockies. I was going to get more but the prices have really gone up. Its ridiculous. Bleachers are 45 bucks now. And then I later learn that my g/f cant make it to the 5/30 game...I wish she would have picked up the phone.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Hey if you meant to bother me, you should know Brewer fans can't be insulted. Our team has been so bad for so long it doesn't affect us. I can't talk smack about football because I can't take people talking bad about the Broncos, but the Brewers it's easy, mainly because they speak the truth. The Brewers suck, but I love them.

In terms of contraction, just ask MB, I think the MLB desperately needs contraction, and a good argument can be made for the Brewers to be one of the teams. That would suck for me, but I can't make a great case against it when compared to 20-25 other teams in the league.

I go to the University of Iowa, there are some Brewers, some White Sox, some Twins, some Cardinals, 3 Royals fans, and then a Zerg swarm of Cubs fans. Parading around, no idea who is on their team, blind loyalty saying the 'Sox Suck' or 'Brewers Suck', but never being able to take any heat on their own team or back it up. It's so easy to mess with them.

You may not be in that fan category (as I said, I have Cubs fan friends who aren't), but you can't take away my experiences in Iowa.
Totally agree with you about the amount of Cubs fans who show up every time they get good again. Just go to a Cubs game at Wrigley and check out the tools who are there to party and don't give a shit about the game. I think one of the major reasons the Cubs have so many fans is the fact that in the 80's and 90's you could see them on WGN pretty much everywhere in the country (including NM where I'm from). Mix that with tradition, being the 'lovable losers', etc. and you can see why there are so many fans. Additionally, if you ever go to Wrigley you see how baseball should be. it was almost like religous experience the first time I walked up the ramp and saw the field there. I don't mind people telling me they suck, because you can't argue with history. But their 'real' fans are some of the most die-hard, loyal fans in all of sports.
Anyway, I was just razzing you a little. Don't really dislike the Brewers, but they bother me because they seem to beat the Cubs when they shouldn't.

[studbucket]

Totally agree with you about the amount of Cubs fans who show up every time they get good again. Just go to a Cubs game at Wrigley and check out the tools who are there to party and don't give a shit about the game. I think one of the major reasons the Cubs have so many fans is the fact that in the 80's and 90's you could see them on WGN pretty much everywhere in the country (including NM where I'm from). Mix that with tradition, being the 'lovable losers', etc. and you can see why there are so many fans. Additionally, if you ever go to Wrigley you see how baseball should be. it was almost like religous experience the first time I walked up the ramp and saw the field there. I don't mind people telling me they suck, because you can't argue with history. But their 'real' fans are some of the most die-hard, loyal fans in all of sports.
Anyway, I was just razzing you a little. Don't really dislike the Brewers, but they bother me because they seem to beat the Cubs when they shouldn't.

I totally understand, and I respect you for loving and sticking with your team. Truthfully, it was only 5 ago years I really liked the Cubs, but the fans ruined them for me. I don't hate Zambrano or any of the players, I just get angry seeing anyone in a Cubs hat ;)

I really believe it will be a good division race this year, the Cards and Astros have the talent to win it, the Brewers and Cubs are playing well together and the Reds even got a little better. Here's to some good, safe, baseball :beer:

[Cutler6MVP]

I wouldnt use the word "elite" in that case. Yes, I would say Holliday is an elite outfielder. At least he was last season.

Alfonso Soriano is also an Elite outfielder, how can you justify what youre saying?

Roberts is one of the elite guys at his position.

As is Soriano, Holliday, Pujols, Lee, Fielder, etc...

[lex]

Alfonso Soriano is also an Elite outfielder, how can you justify what youre saying?

Roberts is one of the elite guys at his position.

As is Soriano, Holliday, Pujols, Lee, Fielder, etc...

This has nothing to do with Soriano. Not sure what youre getting at.

[CoachChaz]

So what do you do now that DeRosa has a bad ticker?

[MOtorboat]

So what do you do now that DeRosa has a bad ticker?

I hadn't heard that, so I went and the read the ESPN story...it was written poorly, I thought the Cubs released him, but it meant he was released from the hospital...but it sounds like he's going to be back on the field this week, so it doesn't sound very bad.

[CoachChaz]

I hadn't heard that, so I went and the read the ESPN story...it was written poorly, I thought the Cubs released him, but it meant he was released from the hospital...but it sounds like he's going to be back on the field this week, so it doesn't sound very bad.

I thought the same thing when I first read it, but bottom line...he's not the youngest guy on the field.

[BigDaddyBronco]

So what do you do now that DeRosa has a bad ticker?

Eating in all of those good Chicago restaraunts would give me a bad ticker as well.
Hopefully they know enough about heart issues and the risks with athletes, family history, etc. they can make a good call on DeRosa.

[Cutler6MVP]

This has nothing to do with Soriano. Not sure what youre getting at.

Im getting at the "Elite" term. The term can mean more than one person when used in baseball.

[Cutler6MVP]

So what do you do now that DeRosa has a bad ticker?

From what I know, he will be fine and ready for opening day. Now wether this make us more serious players for Roberts has yet to be seen.

[CoachChaz]

Nothing will happen at this point until a few weeks into spring training. Personally, I hope we (Balt) hold on to Roberts. I don't understand why any Cubs fan would balk at giving up Marshall or Gallagher along with Murton and Patterson...because I would turn it down if I were the O's GM.

[lex]

So, did anyone else get tickets already?

[Cutler6MVP]

I completely forgot about the tickets, ive been soo busy with school. Usually I make sure I get every game for the Cubs Sox series and one Cards.

[CoachChaz]

2 Cubs scouts were on hand to watch Brian Roberts got 1-2 with a double, run scored and 2 SB's. Looks like the DeRosa situation has accelerated trade talks. The current deal is Roberts for Gallagher, Cedeno, Jose Cedo and/or Donald Veal and perhaps another player.

Orioles scouts will be visiting Cubs games to view other potential names.

[Cutler6MVP]

yeah i noticed that, go get him

[lex]

Wood was named closer today. Yeah, thats a cant miss.

[lex]

I was at Wrigley yesterday. It was freezing on the 1st base side. Its nonsensical that Cubs fans pay the 2nd most of all major league teams for tickets yet they play 16 games at home in April...and add to that the fact that theyre starting the season earlier. Its bad enough Selig and Reinsdorf have been leeching off Cubs fans but now we have to pay to be cold? Selig is a *****.

[MOtorboat]

Would you rather have to wait a week and a half to see a game live?

[lex]

Would you rather have to wait a week and a half to see a game live?


Yes. But moreso, they should be starting the season a week later. And to further add to Seligs stupidity, its not only the fact that we play 3 series vs Milwaukee and Houston--both teams with domes, but we are also playing our road games in the north. Nine out of the 16 teams in the NL play in either moderate to warm climates or domes. So, why are we playing all our games in the cold? Again, we pay the second most of all teams' fans for our tickets...and this is what we get?

[MOtorboat]

Yes. But moreso, they should be starting the season a week later. And to further add to Seligs stupidity, its not only the fact that we play 3 series vs Milwaukee and Houston--both teams with domes, but we are also playing our road games in the north. Nine out of the 16 teams in the NL play in either moderate to warm climates or domes. So, why are we playing all our games in the cold? Again, we pay the second most of all teams' fans for our tickets...and this is what we get?

The moved it back because they had games at Coors Field in the World Series that were like 20 degrees.

I think basing on which teams get the warmer games (i.e. less games in April/September) should never be based on ticket price...so, Royals fans pay less, they should be in the cold, while Cubs fans pay a lot, so they shouldn't?

If you want to say that they should play the games in the warmer climates, OK...I disagree with that, though. I absolutely hate the idea of some teams never get Opening Day. If the Royals hadn't have had Opening Day last year (a lovely 65-degree day), they would have never been on ESPN, even once.

Opening Day in Detroit was 55 and sunny, their Sunday game was 65 and sunny. I'm sorry you had a cold experience, but I went to a game in mid-May that was just above freezing with a wind chill nearing freezing. It was miserable. That was mid-May.

[lex]

The moved it back because they had games at Coors Field in the World Series that were like 20 degrees.

I think basing on which teams get the warmer games (i.e. less games in April/September) should never be based on ticket price...so, Royals fans pay less, they should be in the cold, while Cubs fans pay a lot, so they shouldn't?
Some consideration should be given to how much you pay for tickets. That line of thinking isnt out of line at all. And like I said, Selig and Reinsdorf have been leeching off Cubs fans for years. Cubs fans are the only way for those owners to have sell outs a lot of the time. The Royals werent doing that for them. You shouldnt get raked over the coles while paying more than everyone else. And like I pointed out, they could have switched our series with the Brewers to some other time since Milwaukee has a dome...same with Houston.



If you want to say that they should play the games in the warmer climates, OK...I disagree with that, though. I absolutely hate the idea of some teams never get Opening Day. If the Royals hadn't have had Opening Day last year (a lovely 65-degree day), they would have never been on ESPN, even once.

Opening Day in Detroit was 55 and sunny, their Sunday game was 65 and sunny. I'm sorry you had a cold experience, but I went to a game in mid-May that was just above freezing with a wind chill nearing freezing. It was miserable. That was mid-May.

The weather may be nice sometimes but the earlier you play games in the north, the more risky it is. It has to be a consideration at all costs.

[MOtorboat]

Some consideration should be given to how much you pay for tickets. That line of thinking isnt out of line at all. And like I said, Selig and Reinsdorf have been leeching off Cubs fans for years. Cubs fans are the only way for those owners to have sell outs a lot of the time. The Royals werent doing that for them. You shouldnt get raked over the coles while paying more than everyone else. And like I pointed out, they could have switched our series with the Brewers to some other time since Milwaukee has a dome...same with Houston.

So Royals fans, who's owner has been able to keep ticket prices down, by finding other avenues to fund the team are punished, while Cubs fans are rewarded for their team not being able to keep ticket prices down? That's crap.

[lex]

So Royals fans, who's owner has been able to keep ticket prices down, by finding other avenues to fund the team are punished, while Cubs fans are rewarded for their team not being able to keep ticket prices down? That's crap.


Im not really commenting on Royals fans as much as Im looking out for Cubs fans. Why should we pay all that money to be cold when it didnt have to be that way?

[MOtorboat]

Im not really commenting on Royals fans as much as Im looking out for Cubs fans. Why should we pay all that money to be cold when it didnt have to be that way?

Why should we be punished by the schedule (something MLB controls) because the Cubs' owner can't keep ticket prices down (something only the Cubs owner can control)?

[CoachChaz]

Are we really debating the geographical location of teams?

[BigDaddyBronco]

Are we really debating the geographical location of teams?
That and when the season starts... :rolleyes:

[lex]

Why should we be punished by the schedule (something MLB controls) because the Cubs' owner can't keep ticket prices down (something only the Cubs owner can control)?

Im not saying you should be punished. But definitely Cubs fans should not be punished given what they pay.

[CoachChaz]

That and when the season starts... :rolleyes:

Amazing. So it's not fair to the teams in NY and Chicago and Philly, etc. that MLB has the balls to wait until April to start the season.

Colorado, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, New York. Can't say I've heard too many complaints from these recent World Series participants.

[lex]

Are we really debating the geographical location of teams?


Amazing. So it's not fair to the teams in NY and Chicago and Philly, etc. that MLB has the balls to wait until April to start the season.

Colorado, Chicago, Detroit, Boston, New York. Can't say I've heard too many complaints from these recent World Series participants.

The discussion was on full display. Why did you need someone to interpret what the discussion was for you? And youre still off the mark.

[CoachChaz]

The discussion was on full display. Why did you need someone to interpret what the discussion was for you? And youre still off the mark.

I never thought anyone would complain about when the season started, so I had to make sure I was reading it right...

...and if my assessment is incorrect, then I guess it doesnt make much sense to ridicule my asking questions, does it.

[lex]

I never thought anyone would complain about when the season started, so I had to make sure I was reading it right...

...and if my assessment is incorrect, then I guess it doesnt make much sense to ridicule my asking questions, does it.

If thats all you got from the discussion, then you still dont get it. Either that or youre intentionally disaggregating that point from the rest of what was said.

[CoachChaz]

You sit there and insult me for having to ask about the conversationa dn then insult me by saying I never got it. Pick one.

[lex]

You sit there and insult me for having to ask about the conversationa dn then insult me by saying I never got it. Pick one.

You pick one. Which do you feel like becoming most offended by? Would you like more options?

[CoachChaz]

You feel like Cubs fans should get special privilidge and get to play indoors early in the season because you pay more for tickets. The point was made that you need to make that complaint with the team and the ownership...not MLB. Schedule makers can't conform the schedule to pity all the teams in the north early in the season or late in the year. If the players don't like it, they can ask for a trade, but I can't say I've ever heard ANY players make a big deal out of playing spring games in the north.

[MOtorboat]

Lex, I think you have a knee-jerk reaction to being cold at a ball game, and I don't think you've really thought this through. Like I said, I've been there...even in May. There was a snow out at Coors Field in June a couple of years back. Does that mean the Rockies shouldn't get to play at home until July?

Did baseball move the season back a little bit? Yes, sort of. The calendar was a little weird this year, as you've probably noticed the NCAA Championship game isn't until April 7, when it's normally on April 1, 2, 3, 4... Secondly, instead of starting it on April 7 (which would be the normal starting date) it would have driven the World Series one week later than usual. Last year, games at Coors Field were well below freezing. They were trying to avoid this a little by not going even deeper into November, because of the way the calendar is set up. So, yes, we're starting a few days earlier than normal. However, the temperature/weather of April 1 vs. April 15 usually isn't that much.

You've got two points to your argument. On one hand, you want northern teams with high ticket prices to get less April games. That's the biggest point you've made. On the other hand, you want northern teams to play less home games in April, and I'm assuming September as well, because it does start to cool off at the end of the season as well.

Here's the problem with the ticket price issue. Again, you punish the teams who have found a way not to charge their fans as much, while rewarding the owners who won't keep ticket prices down. Now, there's another factor. Supply and Demand. Pittsburgh is a northern city with a low average ticket price, 28th in the league. Simply, the Cubs can charge more, because no matter the weather, the fans will come. Pittsburgh is different, the fans won't come if the weather is bad and the ticket price is the same as the Cubs. The supply and demand for tickets in those two cities are different. Now, you want to make a team who has trouble drawing fans, even with a lower ticket price, more games in April, when it is harder, because of weather to get fans to the ballpark. Therefore, you're punishing the owner and the team in Pittsburgh for something they can't control. Likewise, you're punishing the Pittsburgh fan because Chicago CAN charge more for their tickets.

Secondly, on the warm-weather issue. The lowest average ticket price in the league is Arizona. Now, we've got an oxymoron. We've got a warm-weather, domed team with a low ticket price. How do they fit into your scenario?

[lex]

You feel like Cubs fans should get special privilidge and get to play indoors early in the season because you pay more for tickets. The point was made that you need to make that complaint with the team and the ownership...not MLB.

No, because the schedule comes from the commissioners office...just like the decision to continue having us play at Comiskey every year. You may resent it but MLB has been leeching off Cubs fans for years. It has to cut both ways. Nice try though trying to pretend that the Cubs are just some team. This is done because they know the Cubs sell tickets at home...but that doesnt mean Cubs fans should suffer unnecessarily when they are paying the second most of any team in MLB. Not only that but the Cubs fans are huge road draws and the Brewers also sell a lot of tickets when the Cubs are in Milwaukee. So, when the season roles around we get a bunch of April games when its cold? Thats just wrong.


Schedule makers can't conform the schedule to pity all the teams in the north early in the season or late in the year. If the players don't like it, they can ask for a trade, but I can't say I've ever heard ANY players make a big deal out of playing spring games in the north.

Sure they can. Ive already pointed out that they could be playing at Milwaukee and Houston for starters.

[CoachChaz]

No, because the schedule comes from the commissioners office...just like the decision to continue having us play at Comiskey every year. You may resent it but MLB has been leeching off Cubs fans for years. It has to cut both ways. Nice try though trying to pretend that the Cubs are just some team. This is done because they know the Cubs sell tickets at home...but that doesnt mean Cubs fans should suffer unnecessarily when they are paying the second most of any team in MLB. Not only that but the Cubs fans are huge road draws and the Brewers also sell a lot of tickets when the Cubs are in Milwaukee. So, when the season roles around we get a bunch of April games when its cold? Thats just wrong.



How about they just build a dome in Chicago or maybe move the team. The Cubs and their fans have only been doing this for 100 years or so. must be the longest running conspiracy in history.

[MOtorboat]

No, because the schedule comes from the commissioners office...just like the decision to continue having us play at Comiskey every year. You may resent it but MLB has been leeching off Cubs fans for years. It has to cut both ways. Nice try though trying to pretend that the Cubs are just some team. This is done because they know the Cubs sell tickets at home...but that doesnt mean Cubs fans should suffer unnecessarily when they are paying the second most of any team in MLB. Not only that but the Cubs fans are huge road draws and the Brewers also sell a lot of tickets when the Cubs are in Milwaukee. So, when the season roles around we get a bunch of April games when its cold? Thats just wrong.

First off, the Cubs are the ones benefiting from the White Sox/Cubs series every year. They are the ones that get the box office draw. There isn't very much revenue sharing in baseball, unlike football.

You are giving a competitive advantage to the Cubs by allowing them to play indoors at the beginning of the season. What about Pittsburgh, in the 80s and 90s when the Cubs sucked ass, and they were selling out stadiums...what about the Royals, who sold out every game in the mid-80s. When do they get their reward? What do you do with the Marlins. They get good weather and they still can't draw fans. Do they just go to a schedule where they play 60 home games and 100 road games?

[Rex]

It is cold in April. Detroit opened with a 7 game home stand. I have been to Royals games in April when it was in the 30s. Deal with it.

Maybe they should not schedule games in Florida during Sept because of hurricanes. How about no night games in San Fran because of cold and fog?

[lex]

Lex, I think you have a knee-jerk reaction to being cold at a ball game, and I don't think you've really thought this through. Like I said, I've been there...even in May. There was a snow out at Coors Field in June a couple of years back. Does that mean the Rockies shouldn't get to play at home until July?

This is not true. I was complaining about this before this weekend.



Did baseball move the season back a little bit? Yes, sort of. The calendar was a little weird this year, as you've probably noticed the NCAA Championship game isn't until April 7, when it's normally on April 1, 2, 3, 4... Secondly, instead of starting it on April 7 (which would be the normal starting date) it would have driven the World Series one week later than usual. Last year, games at Coors Field were well below freezing. They were trying to avoid this a little by not going even deeper into November, because of the way the calendar is set up. So, yes, we're starting a few days earlier than normal. However, the temperature/weather of April 1 vs. April 15 usually isn't that much.

That doesn reconcile the fact that we have 16 home games in April, 9 of which are against division teams that have domes.


You've got two points to your argument. On one hand, you want northern teams with high ticket prices to get less April games. That's the biggest point you've made. On the other hand, you want northern teams to play less home games in April, and I'm assuming September as well, because it does start to cool off at the end of the season as well.

Dont assume anything. September is far more likely to be warm than April. As I said before, you have 9 teams in the NL who either have a dome or play in a mild to warm climate, relatively speaking. There is absolutely no reason why those northern teams shouldn play at least a couple of series at warm weather venues, especially those teams with fans who pay the most. Who wants to pay top dollar to be cold. Just because the Cubs fans show up to games, it doesnt mean they should be treated like crap.


Here's the problem with the ticket price issue. Again, you punish the teams who have found a way not to charge their fans as much, while rewarding the owners who won't keep ticket prices down. Now, there's another factor. Supply and Demand. Pittsburgh is a northern city with a low average ticket price, 28th in the league. Simply, the Cubs can charge more, because no matter the weather, the fans will come. Pittsburgh is different, the fans won't come if the weather is bad and the ticket price is the same as the Cubs. The supply and demand for tickets in those two cities are different. Therefore, you're punishing the owner and the team in Pittsburgh for something they can't control. Likewise, you're punishing the Pittsburgh fan because Chicago CAN charge more for their tickets.

Im not really punishing Pittsburgh. As Ive said many times, the opportunity is there to play at Milwaukee and at Houston, both teams with domes. As far as Im concerned Pittsburgh should play sufficient road games in April as well. Like I said, there are more teams who can accommodate the warm weather then there are who cant (ie northern teams with open air stadiums). Nine out sixteen NL teams are mild to warm or in a dome. How can this not accommodate Pittsburgh and Chicago, but foremost Chicago. Not punishing Cubs fans doesnt mean punishing Pirates fans...not at all. So thats a red herring.


Secondly, on the warm-weather issue. The lowest average ticket price in the league is Arizona. Now, we've got an oxymoron. We've got a warm-weather, domed team with a low ticket price. How do they fit into your scenario?

They get their share of April games.

[MOtorboat]

This is not true. I was complaining about this before this weekend.

That doesn reconcile the fact that we have 16 home games in April, 9 of which are against division teams that have domes.

Dont assume anything. September is far more likely to be warm than April. As I said before, you have 9 teams in the NL who either have a dome or play in a mild to warm climate, relatively speaking. There is absolutely no reason why those northern teams shouldn play at least a couple of series at warm weather venues, especially those teams with fans who pay the most. Who wants to pay top dollar to be cold. Just because the Cubs fans show up to games, it doesnt mean they should be treated like crap.

Im not really punishing Pittsburgh. As Ive said many times, the opportunity is there to play at Milwaukee and at Houston, both teams with domes. As far as Im concerned Pittsburgh should play sufficient road games in April as well. Like I said, there are more teams who can accommodate the warm weather then there are who cant (ie northern teams with open air stadiums). Nine out sixteen NL teams are mild to warm or in a dome. How can this not accommodate Pittsburgh and Chicago, but foremost Chicago. Not punishing Cubs fans doesnt mean punishing Pirates fans...not at all. So thats a red herring.

They get their share of April games.

Under that reasoning, OK, I can see your argument. But you brought in all this Chicago deserves this because their fans are better, stuff.

I disagree with you completely. Weather should never dictate a schedule. It just shouldn't. Is it also fair that during June, July and August, Dome teams (i.e., the Astros and Milwaukee in the NL Central) get less home games? No. So what's the best way to go about it. Make a fair and balanced schedule. Does that mean Cubs and Pirates fans will have to deal with some bad weather? Yes. But that's better than creating a competitive advantage/disadvantage for anyone, or even having the appearance of a disadvantage.

[lex]

First off, the Cubs are the ones benefiting from the White Sox/Cubs series every year. They are the ones that get the box office draw. There isn't very much revenue sharing in baseball, unlike football.

This makes no sense. If the Cubs suck, they sell out at home. If the White Sox suck, theyre lucky to get 20 thousand unless theyre playing the Cubs, in which case, they still sell out even when the Cubs are doing well. And yeah, they get, what, 12% of the gate,...or something like that. Wow. The Cubs get that at a lot of road venues. Selig and Reinsdorf are buddies and both like to leech off Cubs fans.



You are giving a competitive advantage to the Cubs by allowing them to play indoors at the beginning of the season. What about Pittsburgh, in the 80s and 90s when the Cubs sucked ass, and they were selling out stadiums...what about the Royals, who sold out every game in the mid-80s. When do they get their reward? What do you do with the Marlins. They get good weather and they still can't draw fans. Do they just go to a schedule where they play 60 home games and 100 road games?

I already replied to this. The Cubs have sucked a lot of the time but have still sold out. Just because the Cubs suck, it doesnt mean the fans should suffer...especially when they pay more.

[CoachChaz]

Let's assume they let Chicago play in Milwaukee, then Houston...what next? Is the average temperature in Chicago that much different between April 1 and April 7? The next 10 days in Chicago are forecasted to be anywhere between 35 and 55. Should the Cubs be on the road for a month?

[MOtorboat]

This makes no sense. If the Cubs suck, they sell out at home. If the White Sox suck, theyre lucky to get 20 thousand unless theyre playing the Cubs, in which case, they still sell out even when the Cubs are doing well. And yeah, they get, what, 12% of the gate,...or something like that. Wow. The Cubs get that at a lot of road venues. Selig and Reinsdorf are buddies and both like to leech off Cubs fans.




I already replied to this. The Cubs have sucked a lot of the time but have still sold out. Just because the Cubs suck, it doesnt mean the fans should suffer...especially when they pay more.

You've made a completely contradictory argument here. On one hand you want more money from other owners because Cubs fans travel well. Then you complain about the Cubs sucking, so their fans shouldn't suffer because you pay more. What about the Royals? They suck, so their fans should suffer? But your's shouldn't, just because ticket prices are higher?

What you are really failing to see is that its the CUBS fault for high ticket prices, not the league's, not the Royal's, not the Marlin's, the CUBS. That's YOUR problem, not the league's.

[CoachChaz]

You've made a completely contradictory argument here. On one hand you want more money from other owners because Cubs fans travel well. Then you complain about the Cubs sucking, so their fans shouldn't suffer because you pay more. What about the Royals? They suck, so their fans should suffer? But your's shouldn't, just because ticket prices are higher?

What you are really failing to see is that its the CUBS fault for high ticket prices, not the league's, not the Royal's, not the Marlin's, the CUBS. That's YOUR problem, not the league's.

...and they justify this by mking the seats so close to the field...which they just added more to make it even closer...and raised prices because of this. The MLB didn't do that.

[lex]

Under that reasoning, OK, I can see your argument. But you brought in all this Chicago deserves this because their fans are better, stuff.
You could actually make that argument. The Cubs have the advantage of playing in the best park in baseball and in the third largest city. The Cubs fans, to their own detriment, have shown up through the years no matter how inept management was.


I disagree with you completely. Weather should never dictate a schedule. It just shouldn't. Is it also fair that during June, July and August, Dome teams (i.e., the Astros and Milwaukee in the NL Central) get less home games? No. So what's the best way to go about it. Make a fair and balanced schedule. Does that mean Cubs and Pirates fans will have to deal with some bad weather? Yes. But that's better than creating a competitive advantage/disadvantage for anyone, or even having the appearance of a disadvantage.

OK, backup. I never said the Cubs should not have to play in no bad weather. I actually said that they are never playing in warm weather this April, not at all the same. They play 16 gamse at Wrigley and a series in Pittsburgh, Philadelphia, Colorado, and Washington. Washington is what I would consider a mild climate. It has the potential to be cold but theres a far greater likelihood it will be warm than Pittsburgh or Chicago. Even still thats the only venue thats not cold weather in April. Some of Denvers worst snow storms that I remember were in the March/April timeframe. If the Cubs played one series against Milwaukee or Houston at home and at Arizona and LA along with at Pitt and at Phi, I wouldnt be complaining to this degree. But this schedule they have is nonsense.

[MOtorboat]

btw, ticket price index.

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=3317979

[lex]

You've made a completely contradictory argument here. On one hand you want more money from other owners because Cubs fans travel well. Then you complain about the Cubs sucking, so their fans shouldn't suffer because you pay more. What about the Royals? They suck, so their fans should suffer? But your's shouldn't, just because ticket prices are higher?
I didnt make that point at all. Again, the Royals arent even in the discussion except as far as saying that you shouldnt pay so much and expect to be cold.


What you are really failing to see is that its the CUBS fault for high ticket prices, not the league's, not the Royal's, not the Marlin's, the CUBS. That's YOUR problem, not the league's.

No, it is the leagues problems because they very much concern themselves with the conusmer behaviors of Cubs fans, to their own benefit as well. Why do you think Milwaukee became an NL team? Do you think it was the gate the Royals brought?

[MOtorboat]

No, it is the leagues problems because they very much concern themselves with the conusmer behaviors of Cubs fans, to their own benefit as well. Why do you think Milwaukee became an NL team? Do you think it was the gate the Royals brought?

So has Cub attendance gone down this year?

Again...Cubs fans should benefit because they are "better." It's a bad argument. Build a bigger stadium.

[MOtorboat]

Hey, I've got an idea...why don't we give MORE money to the Cubs/Yankees/Red Sox...how about that? Let's give them even more of a competitive advantage. That sounds like a good idea.

[lex]

So has Cub attendance gone down this year?

Again...Cubs fans should benefit because they are "better." It's a bad argument. Build a bigger stadium.

No, it hasnt gone down. Like Ive said numerous times, just because the Cubs fans sell out, it doesnt mean they should be treated like crap. Actually, you have no argument. Its perfectly obvious that youre objection is pure resentment as a fan of a small market team. But it doesnt have as much to do with that. There are enough teams to let Pittsburgh AND Chicago play at warm weather venues in April. Thats been established many times over.

[lex]

Hey, I've got an idea...why don't we give MORE money to the Cubs/Yankees/Red Sox...how about that? Let's give them even more of a competitive advantage. That sounds like a good idea.

How are they getting more money?

[CoachChaz]

No, it is the leagues problems because they very much concern themselves with the conusmer behaviors of Cubs fans, to their own benefit as well. Why do you think Milwaukee became an NL team? Do you think it was the gate the Royals brought?

So the Brewers benefit more by playing the Cubs than they do by playing the Yankees and Red Sox? Regardless of geography, I find that hard to believe.

[lex]

So the Brewers benefit more by playing the Cubs than they do by playing the Yankees and Red Sox? Regardless of geography, I find that hard to believe.

As an AL Central team how many times do they play the Red Sox or Yankees? As an NL Central team, how many times do they play the Cubs? Come on now.

[MOtorboat]

No, it hasnt gone down. Like Ive said numerous times, just because the Cubs fans sell out, it doesnt mean they should be treated like crap. Actually, you have no argument. Its perfectly obvious that youre objection is pure resentment as a fan of a small market team. But it doesnt have as much to do with that. There are enough teams to let Pittsburgh AND Chicago play at warm weather venues in April. Thats been established many times over.

You're asking for a favorable schedule because your fans are cold. You are asking for special treatment. I have no argument? My objection is that your plan creates inequalities in the schedule. I shouldn't even have to go beyond that.

My argument is to keep it the same, I've listed a zillion reasons, and you keep coming back to one. The Cubs fans pay more, so they should get better treatment. Which, once again is YOUR problem, not the league's.

[lex]

You're asking for a favorable schedule because your fans are cold. You are asking for special treatment. I have no argument? My objection is that your plan creates inequalities in the schedule. I shouldn't even have to go beyond that.

Actually, its been moreso the case that Ive been asking for fair scheduling. How does it create inequalities? Chicago playing in decent weather and Pittsbugh playing in decent weather arent mutually exclusive. I pointed this out by the 9:7 ratio. You have failed to offer anything to the contrary.


My argument is to keep it the same, I've listed a zillion reasons, and you keep coming back to one. The Cubs fans pay more, so they should get better treatment. Which, once again is YOUR problem, not the league's.

Yeah, thats the starting point. Its layered. They should begin with fair scheduling though unlike what we have.

[MOtorboat]

Actually, its been moreso the case that Ive been asking for fair scheduling. How does it create inequalities? Chicago playing in decent weather and Pittsbugh playing in decent weather arent mutually exclusive. I pointed this out by the 9:7 ratio. You have failed to offer anything to the contrary.

Yeah, thats the starting point. Its layered. They should begin with fair scheduling though unlike what we have.

Ugh...seriously, how do you not see the inequalities. It's just as likely to be Sunny and 55 in April as it is Rainy and 80 in May...the May game has to be rescheduled and the April one doesn't. Then we've got just as much of a problem as we did when we started.

Scheduling ANYTHING just because the fans are cold is just dumb. I'm sorry if you can't see that, but it is. And scheduling ANYTHING at the POSSIBILITY of bad weather is just dumb. A tornado could rip Kauffman stadium down in June and we've got the same problem as cold weather in April, or a hurricane in Miami in August. Weather happens. Sucks that you were cold. Go to a game in July.

I've spent four pages explaining to you why this current system should be kept, and you still tell me I've got no argument, so I'm done.

[lex]

Ugh...seriously, how do you not see the inequalities. It's just as likely to be Sunny and 55 in April as it is Rainy and 80 in May...the May game has to be rescheduled and the April one doesn't. Then we've got just as much of a problem as we did when we started.

No, not at all. Its just as likely to be rainy when its 55 as it is in May when it gets warmer.


Scheduling ANYTHING just because the fans are cold is just dumb. I'm sorry if you can't see that, but it is. And scheduling ANYTHING at the POSSIBILITY of bad weather is just dumb. A tornado could rip Kauffman stadium down in June and we've got the same problem as cold weather in April, or a hurricane in Miami in August. Weather happens. Sucks that you were cold. Go to a game in July.

No whats dumb is making fans in northern cities suffer unnecessarily when at any given time you could have 7 cold weather teams playing at warm weather venues and 2 warm weather teams playing each other. The teams with venues that have tolerable weather outnumber those who have poor weather in April. Theres no reason any northern team should have to play every game in the cold. None.


I've spent four pages explaining to you why this current system should be kept, and you still tell me I've got no argument, so I'm done.

Youve spent 4 pages complaining on behalf of small market teams even though its been established that CHicago and Pittsburgh playing in warm weather sometimes isnt mutually excusive. Kansas City is an American league team. Theyre not as relevant. Id have to look at how many AL teams have decent weather in April typically. Not really a fair comparison.

[CoachChaz]

As an AL Central team how many times do they play the Red Sox or Yankees? As an NL Central team, how many times do they play the Cubs? Come on now.

If that's the case then why can't Baltimore, Toronto or Tampa compete in the East. They all play the Yanks and Sox a maximum amount of times, yet none of them are able to use that to build a capital that allows them to be more competetive.

[lex]

If that's the case then why can't Baltimore, Toronto or Tampa compete in the East. They all play the Yanks and Sox a maximum amount of times, yet none of them are able to use that to build a capital that allows them to be more competetive.

Because, though they might benefit financially from playing a lot of games at home vs the Yankees and Red Sox, theyre not the Yankees and Red Sox. They have to be smarter and/or get more out of less. The visiting teams get something like 12, maybe 17% of the home teams gate as I understand it. The Yankees, Red Sox, and Cubs get theirs either way by being a big home and road draw. But so do the other teams that play against them, any way you look at it. So basically, whatever Baltimore gets from playing the Yankees, the Yankees also get their share too, except when the Yankees play Tampa Bay, they get their share whereas Baltimore doesnt draw as well when playing TB. And then you also have TV contracts and merchandise which belongs to the teams.

[CoachChaz]

Because, though they might benefit financially from playing a lot of games at home vs the Yankees and Red Sox, theyre not the Yankees and Red Sox.

That being said, how does Milwaukee benefit from playing Chicago at home?

The place a team plays will not affect anyone financially, nor will it affect a team physically. I can remember growing up in PA and playing baseball in February. It was cold, but we played and played well if we were trained. Same goes for any northern team. It's not always warm and cozy in early April, but it's rarely so frigid that you are afraid to swing a bat.

[lex]

That being said, how does Milwaukee benefit from playing Chicago at home?

The place a team plays will not affect anyone financially, nor will it affect a team physically. I can remember growing up in PA and playing baseball in February. It was cold, but we played and played well if we were trained. Same goes for any northern team. It's not always warm and cozy in early April, but it's rarely so frigid that you are afraid to swing a bat.

Because when the Cubs play Milwaukee a ton of Cubs fans go up there for games. Their attendance drastically increases due to its proximity to Chicago. And as I said before, the home team gets 80-something percent of that. So that 80-something % drastically increases when the Cubs are in town. I dont know if you know this but the station that carries Cubs fans, WGN, has a HUGE broadcast range. It goes from the southeast to the west. Its a massive area. Its similar to Atlanta in that regard, except for a long time the Cubs had the ultimate salesman in Harry Caray doing their games. So the Cubs won a lot of fans over a vast area. Plus, to a lot of people theyre the underdog and people like underdogs. You also had a lot of fairly big cities that didnt have teams that could either watch the Cubs or Braves on a routine basis. Denver was like that before they had the Rockies. Thats how I became a Cubs fan. Phoenix is another place like that.

[Rex]

Hey Mo....how about that weather yesterday in KC? 38 degrees, 15 mph N wind, and mist/drizzle!!!

[BigDaddyBronco]

Hey Mo....how about that weather yesterday in KC? 38 degrees, 15 mph N wind, and mist/drizzle!!!
Did you wear a coat?

Did you have a good time?

Maybe they should have refunded half the ticket price because it was cold. :rolleyes:

[MOtorboat]

Hey Mo....how about that weather yesterday in KC? 38 degrees, 15 mph N wind, and mist/drizzle!!!

We have to suffer cswil, we pay less for our tickets.

[CoachChaz]

We have to suffer cswil, we pay less for our tickets.

I had cheap tickets yesterday AND got a little red on my arms.

[BroncoJoe]

I had cheap tickets yesterday AND got a little red on my arms.

Nurse Red?

[CoachChaz]

Nurse Red?

I'm not that lucky. Although, I did get a little pink on my lap later on.

[lex]

Its good to play the Pirates and Reds. Hopefully we keep it going.

[lex]

Wow, the Cubs have been playing good ball. Ive liked what this Reed Johnson has done.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Wow, the Cubs have been playing good ball. Ive liked what this Reed Johnson has done.

I agree, they have been playing really well. I was pissed last night when Kerry blew the save, but then they came back and won in the 10th. They are winning close games if they are high scoring or low scoring.

To see D-Lee hit this well in the early season has been refreshing, looks like he'll have a monster year. Fukadome looks good and will get better as his familiarity with the pitchers increases. Now if only Soriano gets off the DL and gets on track. I even have hope for Pie, he certainly has the desire.

Not getting my hopes too high though, these are the Cubbies after all. :D

[MOtorboat]

To see D-Lee hit this well in the early seaon has been refreshing,

:2thumbs:

[BigDaddyBronco]

:2thumbs:

Me no spel so wel.

[MOtorboat]

Me no spel so wel.

Oh, no...I wasn't commenting on that...DLee is on one of my fantasy teams.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Oh, no...I wasn't commenting on that...DLee is on one of my fantasy teams.

That was my first guess, then I noticed my spelling. But yea, I'm sure you drafted DLee lower than where he should have been. He has had injury and family issues that have hurt his game, but I think he is back now.

[MOtorboat]

That was my first guess, then I noticed my spelling. But yea, I'm sure you drafted DLee lower than where he should have been. He has had injury and family issues that have hurt his game, but I think he is back now.

He killed one of my teams last year for a while until I found a replacement...so I was leery, but I drafted him anyway.

[lex]

I agree, they have been playing really well. I was pissed last night when Kerry blew the save, but then they came back and won in the 10th. They are winning close games if they are high scoring or low scoring.

To see D-Lee hit this well in the early season has been refreshing, looks like he'll have a monster year. Fukadome looks good and will get better as his familiarity with the pitchers increases. Now if only Soriano gets off the DL and gets on track. I even have hope for Pie, he certainly has the desire.

Not getting my hopes too high though, these are the Cubbies after all. :D

One of the most underrated stats in MLB is pitches per at bat. The Cubs are actually strong in this area so far.

[Hobe]

Here ya go Cubs fans! I live in this town a few years ago and when through there last week. I don’t think they have updated the Web site since ’06 because they are playing Peewee baseball games there now.

http://www.littlecubsfield.com/index.php

[lex]

Its been a lot of fun watching the Cubs this year. Theres a lot to like about the players on the team. Its not a machine but theyre capable. And yesterday was a perfect example of the difference between Dusty and Lou. Compared to Lou, Dusty looks inept. Anyway, that was a good series but this is the kind of team that may not be able to stand prosperity-- yet. And so I can see them floundering against SD now.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Its been a lot of fun watching the Cubs this year. Theres a lot to like about the players on the team. Its not a machine but theyre capable. And yesterday was a perfect example of the difference between Dusty and Lou. Compared to Lou, Dusty looks inept. Anyway, that was a good series but this is the kind of team that may not be able to stand prosperity-- yet. And so I can see them floundering against SD now.
Thank god Dusty isn't around anymore. Inept is a good descriptive term. Looks like Soriano is heating up a little, if he gets on track they could be a machine. Evertime Kerry attempts to close I'm holding my breath.

I love how this team hustles (for the lack of a better term).

[lex]

Thank god Dusty isn't around anymore. Inept is a good descriptive term. Looks like Soriano is heating up a little, if he gets on track they could be a machine. Evertime Kerry attempts to close I'm holding my breath.

I love how this team hustles (for the lack of a better term).

Yeah, I like all the interchangeable parts. I also like how Lou actually uses guys. With Dusty the bench consisted of Neifi and that was assuming Neifi wasnt starting. I like how Lou manages a lot and how he plays guys who produce. BTW, I like the fact that Soriano is trying to gut it out. That seems to get ignored because of the amount of money he's making. Another thing I really like is that they have a decent complement of players who will fight for at bats and Fukudome is at the top of that list. I cant really think of a guy that I dislike.

[lex]

Its kind of weird that the NL Central isnt looking so bad this year and the NL West is a little on the down side so far. I really wish the Cubs would run away with it though, so Id like the NL West to start taking down some Central teams (save the Cubs).

Not sure how I feel about the Edmonds signing. I kind of liked the makeup of the team we had/have even with Pie struggling.

[MOtorboat]

Its kind of weird that the NL Central isnt looking so bad this year and the NL West is a little on the down side so far. I really wish the Cubs would run away with it though, so Id like the NL West to start taking down some Central teams (save the Cubs).

Not sure how I feel about the Edmonds signing. I kind of liked the makeup of the team we had/have even with Pie struggling.

With the unbalanced schedule, it's always about taking down your divisional teams. I think most teams will play 17-19 games against each divisional opponent, maybe a few less for the Cubs since they have 6 teams in division...that's a lot of games.

I think the West was due for a downturn, with all the young players...I'm certainly wrong when it comes to Arizona, but not too much with the other teams...rookies come up, have good success, next year they get knocked back a notch.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Its kind of weird that the NL Central isnt looking so bad this year and the NL West is a little on the down side so far. I really wish the Cubs would run away with it though, so Id like the NL West to start taking down some Central teams (save the Cubs).

Not sure how I feel about the Edmonds signing. I kind of liked the makeup of the team we had/have even with Pie struggling.
I agree, Edmonds is a stop gap and we had enough offense to give Pie some at bats without losing games. I guess they want him to get more at bats in AAA, but hasn't he always hit well in the minors and struggled in the majors? Seems like he needs more at bats to see if he can get it done in the bigs or not.

That and Zambrano doesn't like Edmonds which might not be an issue as long as it doesn't turn into a michael Barrett episode. I think that hurt them for a month after it happened.

Soriano is heating up, Lilly is pitching well, everyone else is playing well. The only major concern is Wood being shakey in the 9th.

[lex]

I agree, Edmonds is a stop gap and we had enough offense to give Pie some at bats without losing games. I guess they want him to get more at bats in AAA, but hasn't he always hit well in the minors and struggled in the majors? Seems like he needs more at bats to see if he can get it done in the bigs or not.

That and Zambrano doesn't like Edmonds which might not be an issue as long as it doesn't turn into a michael Barrett episode. I think that hurt them for a month after it happened.

Soriano is heating up, Lilly is pitching well, everyone else is playing well. The only major concern is Wood being shakey in the 9th.

Honestly, I think what hurt Chicago where Barrett was concerned was the fact that he was horrible defensively. The occasional HR by Barrett didnt come close to compensating for all of his deficiencies on the bases or, more importantly, in the field.

Yeah, Pie has always been lights out in the minors. But the thing is, he is truthfully probably the best defensive player we have and as much as Id like to see Pie working on his game, im a little more concerned with losing his defense and baserunning. He has been extremely useful along those lines. It will be interesting to see what will happen if Edmonds is hitting around .250-.270 and Pie is tearing it up in Iowa. Im kiind of curious to see what the threshhold is where its more worth it to go with the younger guy with better defense. Its low risk but I think we might be outsmarting ourselves. I hope Im wrong.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Honestly, I think what hurt Chicago where Barrett was concerned was the fact that he was horrible defensively. The occasional HR by Barrett didnt come close to compensating for all of his deficiencies on the bases or, more importantly, in the field.

Yeah, Pie has always been lights out in the minors. But the thing is, he is truthfully probably the best defensive player we have and as much as Id like to see Pie working on his game, im a little more concerned with losing his defense and baserunning. He has been extremely useful along those lines. It will be interesting to see what will happen if Edmonds is hitting around .250-.270 and Pie is tearing it up in Iowa. Im kiind of curious to see what the threshhold is where its more worth it to go with the younger guy with better defense. Its low risk but I think we might be outsmarting ourselves. I hope Im wrong.
That is what I mean. Let Pie hit .220 and use his defense and baserunning. If he can play every other day or so, then at least he has a chance of becomming a better hitter. Sending him back to Iowa didn't help him last year. I don't know what good Edmonds is going to do in the long term, maybe he is a guy who could get hot in the playoffs, but I'm not counting on it.

[CoachChaz]

That is what I mean. Let Pie hit .220 and use his defense and baserunning. If he can play every other day or so, then at least he has a chance of becomming a better hitter. Sending him back to Iowa didn't help him last year. I don't know what good Edmonds is going to do in the long term, maybe he is a guy who could get hot in the playoffs, but I'm not counting on it.

This sounds like the Corey Patterson experiment all over again. And to think the Cubs refused to give up Pie for Roberts. hendry is an idiot.

[lex]

This sounds like the Corey Patterson experiment all over again. And to think the Cubs refused to give up Pie for Roberts. hendry is an idiot.

Not having an every day 2B has allowed for contributions from more people. If we have an everyday 2B, Im not so sure DeRosa or Fontenot remain as sharp. Having someone like Fontenot occasionally play 2nd pays dividends in other circumstances where he may be pinch hitting. One of the strengths of the Cubs has been Lous utilization of players and having a somewhat open spot at 2nd has allowed him more flexibility along those lines.

[CoachChaz]

Meanwhile you have no leadoff hitter and a reincarnation of Patterson. I see the payoff.

[MOtorboat]

Meanwhile you have no leadoff hitter and a reincarnation of Patterson. I see the payoff.

I don't like Lou's lineup at all...

I'd bat Theriot 1, Fukudome 2, Lee 3, Ramirez 4 and Soto 5, Soriano 6 right now, until Soriano picks up the pace. That way you get the two guys with high OBPs up 1 and 2, and then the guy with the highest OBP at 5...Plus your two power guys in the middle, again, at least until Soriano picks it up a little. I'd still leave Theriot in the lineup, because he gets on base 4 of 10 times, and Soriano's power in the 2 hole would be nice to get 2 runs instead of just a lead off home run...

Just saying...

[BigDaddyBronco]

There was some talk about Soriano not being at the leadoff or batting 2nd and it destroying his psyche. They tried it everywhere they have had him and it hasn't worked. So while I like Roberts, I wouldn't like a screwed up Soriano for what they payed for him.

Plus if they had to give up Pie, Cedeno, and Marshall or Gallagher I'm not sure it would be a good trade long term. Marshall and Gallagher look solid and Cedeno has really looked good this year. Might be too early to tell with Pie. If they were certain of having a shot at the WS then I would do it, but we are talking the Cubs here.

[MOtorboat]

There was some talk about Soriano not being at the leadoff or batting 2nd and it destroying his psyche. They tried it everywhere they have had him and it hasn't worked. So while I like Roberts, I wouldn't like a screwed up Soriano for what they payed for him.

Plus if they had to give up Pie, Cedeno, and Marshall or Gallagher I'm not sure it would be a good trade long term. Marshall and Gallagher look solid and Cedeno has really looked good this year. Might be too early to tell with Pie. If they were certain of having a shot at the WS then I would do it, but we are talking the Cubs here.

Well, right now, he's got an OBP under .300, while both Theriot and Fukudome have OBPs above .400...its just time to get him out of the leadoff role.

Or keep him there if you're not a Cubs fan :D

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, right now, he's got an OBP under .300, while both Theriot and Fukudome have OBPs above .400...its just time to get him out of the leadoff role.

Or keep him there if you're not a Cubs fan :D
I totally agree with you by the numbers, it was just a comment they made during a game on WGN about "losing" Soriano by having him bat 5th or 6th. Apparently his head and or heart isn't in it if he doesn't bat leadoff. One of those "old timey" baseball things that doesn't show in the numbers.

firejoemorgan.com would have a field day with that one.

I think they should just have the pitcher bat 7th and move some high OBPers to bat 8th and 9th, then some guys are on base for Soriano. :D

[lex]

Meanwhile you have no leadoff hitter and a reincarnation of Patterson. I see the payoff.

And our seasons going down the toilet as we speak. Im not saying Roberts sucks or that its a "no way" but it depends on the price and there are also other dynamics to consider.

[lex]

I don't like Lou's lineup at all...

I'd bat Theriot 1, Fukudome 2, Lee 3, Ramirez 4 and Soto 5, Soriano 6 right now, until Soriano picks up the pace. That way you get the two guys with high OBPs up 1 and 2, and then the guy with the highest OBP at 5...Plus your two power guys in the middle, again, at least until Soriano picks it up a little. I'd still leave Theriot in the lineup, because he gets on base 4 of 10 times, and Soriano's power in the 2 hole would be nice to get 2 runs instead of just a lead off home run...

Just saying...

Id have to see more data than that. What also matters is how effective he is at knocking in guys. Typically when Soriano bats its 6-9 that are on base. He's basically functioning as an RBI guy in the one hole. If he sufficiently knocks in the 6-9 guys on base, then its possible he could offset the OBP. And it might actually be better to have him as lead off as opposed to piling all the RBI guys up in the middle of the order. Theres more to it than OBP.

[CoachChaz]

And our seasons going down the toilet as we speak. Im not saying Roberts sucks or that its a "no way" but it depends on the price and there are also other dynamics to consider.

I look at it this way, with the guys and contracts on the roster right now, either Gallagher or Marshall will be trade bait or in the bullpen anyway. Cedeno is what he is...nothing special. I'd give up Roberts and a PTBNL for Gallagher or Marshall, Cedeno and Murton. Nothing less simply because of the value Roberts has that goes beyond his numbers.

[MOtorboat]

Id have to see more data than that. What also matters is how effective he is at knocking in guys. Typically when Soriano bats its 6-9 that are on base. He's basically functioning as an RBI guy in the one hole. If he sufficiently knocks in the 6-9 guys on base, then its possible he could offset the OBP. And it might actually be better to have him as lead off as opposed to piling all the RBI guys up in the middle of the order. Theres more to it than OBP.

But if you put him at No. 2, No. 3 or No. 6, he'll hit even more guys in, because the guys in front of him there are on more often than No. 6-9.

Plus, you get a guy with a higher Avg./OBP up more...that's why for much of his career Andres Galaragga actually hit in the No. 2 hole for the Rockies...more ABs, because he had the higher OBP on the team. Since Soriano's OBP is lower, get him back in the lineup and let him drive in some runs.

With Theriot and Fukudome hitting No. 1 and No. 2...every 1 in 5 at bats for Lee, both are going to be on, while one is going to be on every 2 in every 5 at bats. That percentage goes down somewhat with Soriano, because his OBP is under .300. I think it just sets the plate better for your big boppers, which, right now, include Soriano, who has a low Avg., but still has power.

[lex]

But if you put him at No. 2, No. 3 or No. 6, he'll hit even more guys in, because the guys in front of him there are on more often than No. 6-9.

Plus, you get a guy with a higher Avg./OBP up more...that's why for much of his career Andres Galaragga actually hit in the No. 2 hole for the Rockies...more ABs, because he had the higher OBP on the team. Since Soriano's OBP is lower, get him back in the lineup and let him drive in some runs.

With Theriot and Fukudome hitting No. 1 and No. 2...every 1 in 5 at bats for Lee, both are going to be on, while one is going to be on every 2 in every 5 at bats. That percentage goes down somewhat with Soriano, because his OBP is under .300. I think it just sets the plate better for your big boppers, which, right now, include Soriano, who has a low Avg., but still has power.

If youre going with the conventional OBP/leadoff model, why would you want Soriano to bat 2nd? He's not exactly a get the runner over kind of guy. And he loses his capacity as an RBI guy for the bottom half of the lineup by virtue of moving him further away. Like I said, though, I need to see more data. Having a run producer at the top of the lineup might be justified depending on how proficient he is at knocking in the bottom of the order. And then you also have to consider whether he puts more stress on the opposing pitching staff as batting first. The opposing manager cant always manage around the middle of the order.

[MOtorboat]

If youre going with the conventional OBP/leadoff model, why would you want Soriano to bat 2nd? He's not exactly a get the runner over kind of guy. And he loses his capacity as an RBI guy for the bottom half of the lineup by virtue of moving him further away. Like I said, though, I need to see more data. Having a run producer at the top of the lineup might be justified depending on how proficient he is at knocking in the bottom of the order. And then you also have to consider whether he puts more stress on the opposing pitching staff as batting first. The opposing manager cant always manage around the middle of the order.

Right...so hit him No. 3, 5 or 6...

My argument is that a guy with a higher OBP has a better chance of knocking in those runs from No. 6-9, because none of them are power guys, so No. 9 is not going to knock in a three-run homer, most likely, he's most likely to leave a guy on second or third, which is just as easily done with a higher OBP guy like Theriot with a single, then Fukudome with a single and then Lee with a HR. Right now, with Soriano with .250/.293 he's more likely to strike out, or ground into a double play...it's completely subjective, and just my opinion...

The other side of my argument also lies in the fact that No. 1 and No. 2 are more likely to have 5 at bats in a game. When you're getting on base 2 out of every 5 ABs, rather than 1 out of every five, Theriot is more likely to get at least a hit every game, thus making it important for him to hit in the No. 1 or No. 2 slot...same applies to Fukudome, of course.

[lex]

Right...so hit him No. 3, 5 or 6...

My argument is that a guy with a higher OBP has a better chance of knocking in those runs from No. 6-9, because none of them are power guys, so No. 9 is not going to knock in a three-run homer, most likely, he's most likely to leave a guy on second or third, which is just as easily done with a higher OBP guy like Theriot with a single, then Fukudome with a single and then Lee with a HR. Right now, with Soriano with .250/.293 he's more likely to strike out, or ground into a double play...it's completely subjective, and just my opinion...

The other side of my argument also lies in the fact that No. 1 and No. 2 are more likely to have 5 at bats in a game. When you're getting on base 2 out of every 5 ABs, rather than 1 out of every five, Theriot is more likely to get at least a hit every game, thus making it important for him to hit in the No. 1 or No. 2 slot...same applies to Fukudome, of course.

Its not like Im unfamiliar with the approach youre describing. Ultimately, its about run production and not OBP. And if having an RBI guy at one works, then so be it. I dont think you can just matter of factly say it doesnt work because of his OBP. While Soriano's OBP might not the highest on the team, theres also more to consider. If Soriano batting at one means the difference between leaving guys stranded because a more conventional leadoff hitter doesnt knock in as many runs or doesnt extend the opposing pitchers like an RBI guy does, then there is value in having a run producer at 1. When I say extend pitchers, Im not talking about pitch count as much as Im talking about Soriano being someone they need to be careful with. And theres a cumulative effect of having those guys up and down the lineup.

[lex]

Well that was a satisfying win last night. Made it worth watching in the end. So, now the Rockies are coming to town. Im kind of wary of the Rockies. I worry about a bounceback after being swept by the Phillies.

[lex]

Its kind of been a fun ride lately for Cubs fans. I hope it continues. We need another pitcher. BTW, its kind of fun to see the Cubs go on the road and see as many Cubs fans as fans of the home team.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Its kind of been a fun ride lately for Cubs fans. I hope it continues. We need another pitcher. BTW, its kind of fun to see the Cubs go on the road and see as many Cubs fans as fans of the home team.
I haven't seen my Cubbies yet this year, but even when they suck they have a lot of fans on the road. I went to a three game series in Houston about 5 years ago and about 1/4 to a 1/3 of the fans were Cubs fans.

Yes we need another pitcher, hopefully Lilly can get his act together. Right now I don't like our chances in the playoffs against a team like Arizona as we can only rely on Zambrano and Dempster.

Also Wood is giving me heart attacks again every time he tries to close, he doesn't seem like a top notch closer unless he brings his A game.

Did you see how Prior is having shoulder surgery again. Talk about wasted potential. :tsk:

[lex]

I haven't seen my Cubbies yet this year, but even when they suck they have a lot of fans on the road. I went to a three game series in Houston about 5 years ago and about 1/4 to a 1/3 of the fans were Cubs fans.
Yes we need another pitcher, hopefully Lilly can get his act together. Right now I don't like our chances in the playoffs against a team like Arizona as we can only rely on Zambrano and Dempster.

Also Wood is giving me heart attacks again every time he tries to close, he doesn't seem like a top notch closer unless he brings his A game.

Did you see how Prior is having shoulder surgery again. Talk about wasted potential. :tsk:

Yeah, its more pronounced now though. Last night, the Cubs fans were louder than the Padres fans. And Prior doesnt shock me at all.

[lex]

Yeah, its more pronounced now though. Last night, the Cubs fans were louder than the Padres fans.

I was just noticing the Cubs are 38-21. If (though unlikely) they can squeeze 4 more wins out of this current winning streak, they will be 42-21. Along with being .666, thats 21 games over .500 (going by how its commonly described). I feel like we should have a bigger cushion than 3.5 games though. On the other hand, the Brewers have won 8 of their last 10 and lost ground. Good times.

[lex]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/


The Starting Pitcher Market
Almost every team needs starting pitching. Let's take a look at who's out there.

Bronson Arroyo, Reds. If Walt Jocketty starts selling off his veterans, he'll have to listen on Arroyo. The innings-eating 31 year-old is signed through 2010.
Derek Lowe, Dodgers. Lowe seems to have righted the ship after a five-start stumble. He'll be a free agent after the season, but I can't see Ned Colletti moving Lowe unless the Dodgers fall out of contention.
Joe Blanton, A's. Like Arroyo, a hittable innings eater. Also like Arroyo, he's under team control through 2010.
Livan Hernandez, Twins. The Twins may want to keep Livan, since they are in the thick of the AL Central race. You may recall they did not elect to trade Carlos Silva last year.
A.J. Burnett, Blue Jays. His name comes up in trade rumors because of an opt out clause. If he thinks he can top a two-year, $24MM deal, Burnett will probably elect free agency after the season. The Jays are currently a contender, so he shouldn't be available. Plus, he has a limited no-trade clause.
Boof Bonser, Twins. Recently demoted to the bullpen, Bonser may be expendable (and more desirable than Livan).
Brad Penny, Dodgers. The Dodgers hold an $8.75MM option for '09 with a $2MM buyout. Penny has a limited no-trade clause. He's pitched terribly lately.
C.C. Sabathia, Indians. Teams would be falling all over themselves to add a true ace, even for two months. And maybe the acquiring team would try to lock him up. The Indians are still contending, however.
Daniel Cabrera, Orioles. Has he turned the corner, or should the O's sell high? Cabrera is under team control through 2010.
Gil Meche, Royals. Meche is signed through 2011. I think the Royals should at least shop him around.
Greg Maddux, Padres. Mad Dog has no-trade protection, so it'll be his call as to whether he wants a trade.
Jeremy Bonderman, Nate Robertson, Kenny Rogers, Tigers. Some have suggested the Tigers will look to move a starter. They're not out of the AL Central race, in my opinion.
Miguel Batista, Jarrod Washburn, Mariners. Both vets are signed through '09. Both have been lousy.
Odalis Perez, Nationals. Allows too many baserunners, but may be attractive as an innings eater. Should definitely be available.
Randy Wolf, Padres. If Wolf puts in another strong, healthy month he should be one of Kevin Towers' more valuable trade chips.
Kevin Millwood, Vicente Padilla, Sidney Ponson, Rangers. The Rangers are only six games out, so don't start the fire sale yet. Padilla is signed through '09, Millwood through '10.
Ben Sheets, Brewers. The Brewers are only 3.5 games out of the wild card, so trading Sheets (an impending free agent) should not be considered for now.
Paul Byrd, Jeremy Sowers, Indians. Shopping these two made sense before the Jake Westbrook injury. Pitching surpluses don't exist!
Zack Greinke, Royals. To trade him, the Royals would probably need a very good, cheap, young MLB-ready hitter.
Rich Harden, A's. I expect interested teams to see how Harden fares over the next month before getting serious.

Im hoping the Cubs land a pitcher or two.

[lex]

Wow, Wood makes it way too interesting. Its good to get a win against a game Dodgers team tonight. Every win helps.

[lex]

Another home win. Its nice to have this at Wrigley. Today was really a get-up-off-the-mat win.

[lex]

Well, this weekend is the series vs the first place White Sox, meanwhile St. Louis has their annual series vs Kansas City.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Well, this weekend is the series vs the first place White Sox, meanwhile St. Louis has their annual series vs Kansas City.
God, I hope we kill the White Sox. I really do hate them and their idiot, hot head of a manager.

[lex]

God, I hope we kill the White Sox. I really do hate them and their idiot, hot head of a manager.

Quite honestly, Id rather beat the Pirates. Those games actually mean more than the gamse vs the Sox...and I really hate how the Cubs-Sox games are so overhyped around here. I guess to some degree I want the Cubs to do well against the White Sox because its the White Sox is due to the fact that so much is made of whatever happens in these games and if its going to get such coverage, Id rather hear something good obviously.

[lex]

Well after that stumble in St. Pete, it was satisfying to bounce back strongly this past weekend. Im still kind of worried about the pitching and some of the bats that have cooled.

[MOtorboat]

Well after that stumble in St. Pete, it was satisfying to bounce back strongly this past weekend. Im still kind of worried about the pitching and some of the bats that have cooled.

Rumors...


Market for Sabathia expanding
C.C. Sabathia | Indians | Interested: Red Sox? Yankees? Cubs? Dodgers?
The trade market for Indians' ace C.C. Sabathia is expanding daily, the Cleveland Plain-Dealer reports.

There are two new teams in the market as the Los Angeles Dodgers placed right-handed starters Brad Penny and Hiroki Kuroda on the disabled list Thursday. Also, the Chicago Cubs ace Carlos Zambrano is experiencing shoulder problems and could end up on the 15-Day DL.

The Dodgers and Cubs join the Red Sox, who placed Bartolo Colon (back) on the DL, and the Yankees, who lost staff ace Chien-Ming Wang (foot) until September, on the list of possible suitors for Sabathia.

Indians general manager Mark Shapiro has not yet given up hope on the 2008 season but with Cleveland slipping further out of playoff contention, he could be looking to deal Sabathia for some quality prospects.

And


Erik Bedard is on the trading block
Erik Bedard | Mariners
Erik Bedard is "now officially on the market," however his trade value has diminished over the course of the season due to his 4-4 record and 4.14 ERA, ESPN's Jayson Stark reports.

[lex]

Rumors...



And

Yeah, I had seen a lot of that kicked around. Rumors swirl all over the place around here. Personally, I think Sabathia is going to be too expensive. I wouldnt mind it but I dont see the Cubs biting. Burnett might be more realistic. I would actually like to see Harden but there are too many teams who arent THAT far out of it yet.

[BigDaddyBronco]

I don't think the Cubs are going to get Sabathia. They don't have enough in trade value to get him plus they still don't have a new owner. Sabathia would be an ok rent-a-pitcher as you can let him go after the playoffs.

I think they should wait until some more teams are out of it to see what is available.

[lex]

I don't think the Cubs are going to get Sabathia. They don't have enough in trade value to get him plus they still don't have a new owner. Sabathia would be an ok rent-a-pitcher as you can let him go after the playoffs.

I think they should wait until some more teams are out of it to see what is available.

I agree but its still a topic thats often discussed.

[lex]

YEAH!!!

http://sports.yahoo.com/mlb/news;_ylt=AptOhbCEmAI4XRIb2mif0c0RvLYF?slug=ap-cubs-athleticstrade&prov=ap&type=lgns

[MOtorboat]

For what they gave up, they should have gone harder after Sabathia.

I was at Harden's major league debut in Kansas City. Good pitcher, but injured a lot. Cubs fans should be used to that.

[lex]

For what they gave up, they should have gone harder after Sabathia.
I was at Harden's major league debut in Kansas City. Good pitcher, but injured a lot. Cubs fans should be used to that.

What did they give up? Murton sucks. Gallagher has promise and so does Patterson but the Cubs also have Pie in the minors. Plus we got Gaudin in the deal.

[MOtorboat]

Don't get your panties in a bunch, it's just an opinion.

[lex]

Don't get your panties in a bunch, it's just an opinion.
Im not upset. Im just letting you know. The Cubs really didnt give up THAT much and with Gaudin in the deal its even better. And if the Cubs would have acquired Sabathia, it would have required more.

[MOtorboat]

Im not upset. Im just letting you know. The Cubs really didnt give up THAT much and with Gaudin in the deal its even better. And if the Cubs would have acquired Sabathia, it would have required more.

Not based on what Milwaukee gave up.

[lex]

Not based on what Milwaukee gave up.

And the Cubs are also going to get an extra year out of Harden.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Cubs didn't give up that much for Harden at all, but Harden hasn't pitched over 140 innings in years, but when he pitches he's awesome. A nice little comeback by the Cubs, and they kept their best prospects -- and as Lex said, get them a little longer. I just wonder when people will jump in on Bedard, maybe we'll wait until after July. I'm hoping the Yankees do.

[Medford Bronco]

All i have to say is that I was impressed by Harden today

For my uncle, I hope the Cubs win the WS this year, He is a great
guy and has suffered for many years etc. Just like in 04 for the Sox
it would be great for him like it was for me and my Dad.

[lex]

It would be really nice to take the trip up to Wrigley North for one of these games.

[Medford Bronco]

Cubs are looking better. Tomorrow game (later tonights actually)
game should be a gem. Rich Harden vs CC Sabathia.

Go Cubs. (sorry sneakers, any other Central and I would be behind you 100%)

[lex]

Cubs are looking better. Tomorrow game (later tonights actually)
game should be a gem. Rich Harden vs CC Sabathia.

Go Cubs. (sorry sneakers, any other Central and I would be behind you 100%)

Sabathia pitched Monday night.

The thing about this series though is that its total "in the moment" gratification. 4 days ago, Milwaukee was in the middle of seeping the Cardinals and pushing them further back. Now, its back to where it was, kind of. It just goes to show that, though series like these are fun and have some meaning, it has virtually no meaning if you dont have a solid body of work beyond these 4 games. If the Cubs continue to do well the rest of this series but then take it on the chin vs Pittsburgh (with the back end of the rotation), we're back to square one like the Brewers and Cardinals. I just feel good knowing that the Cubs can and have risen to the challenge of facing what might be the best 1-2 punch in the game.

[lex]

And it looks like the Cubs are cruising tonight. I hope they dont start mailing it in. They really need to maintain this same focus.

[Cutler6MVP]

You can make the point that Harden has out pitched Sabathia. His ERA is lower than Sabathias, which is all a pitcher can control. Wins and losses are not controlled by a pitcher. All a pitcher can control his is WHIP and ERA.

And I know the brewers fans here are going to say well Sabathia threw this many CG SO's etc. Hes only pitched those due to the fact hes thrown about 130 pitches in each one of his outings which is absurd. If he wasnt a rent a player he wouldnt of threw those CG's.

[lex]

You can make the point that Harden has out pitched Sabathia. His ERA is lower than Sabathias, which is all a pitcher can control. Wins and losses are not controlled by a pitcher. All a pitcher can control his is WHIP and ERA.

And I know the brewers fans here are going to say well Sabathia threw this many CG SO's etc. Hes only pitched those due to the fact hes thrown about 130 pitches in each one of his outings which is absurd. If he wasnt a rent a player he wouldnt of threw those CG's.

Thats a really good point. The Brewers are riding Sabathia really hard as a rental player. I guess we'll have to see how it plays out. But I have no complaints about Harden. With the exception of one outing, we have pretty much been able to bank on him giving up no more than 2 runs. Ill take that any day. As much as its envogue to like innings eaters, quality is still paramount. I really like the top 4 of our rotation. I wonder what Marquis must feel like to be the only scrub.

[MOtorboat]

:choke:

[MOtorboat]

I think Cubs fans should pay less for their tickets because their team hasn't won a World Series in 100 years.

Subsequently, they shouldn't have to play cold-weather games either.

[sneakers]

I think Cubs fans should pay less for their tickets because their team hasn't won a World Series in 100 years.

Subsequently, they shouldn't have to play cold-weather games either.

Cub fans sellout every single game....why should the owners try to improve? They are going to make money whether they are 100-62 or 62-100.

[Gamechanger]

hate to say it...but the Cubs are some of the biggest chokemasters i've seen next to A-Rod

[Broncolingus]

Again, I cannot tell a lie...it is my fault.

I was pulling for them (yet again) this year, like all others...

Jinxed!

[Timmy!]

http://samuelpablo.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/epic_fail.jpg

[DenverBronkHoes]

can i jus come in here and laff for a like 10 mins?

im sorry, but the cubs are just so sorry...


baby bears.... please give all adult living animals more respect

[lex]

hate to say it...but the Cubs are some of the biggest chokemasters i've seen next to A-Rod

No getting around it. Its not like LA is garbage. They have some good pitchers but a lot of the Cubs rolled over...again.