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SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 02:25 PM
There are a number of kneejerk discussions after the performance the NY D-Line put on last night...this is one of em. Or it could actually it's kind of an anti-kneejerk. I dunno. It's obvious that a solid DLine is crucial to win in this league and many feel our DEs need to improve. But does that improvement necessarily mean a bunch of new bodies? The Giants were able to control the run w/ their physical LBs and stout middle...neither of which we currently possess. Their DEs also do a nice job vs the run, but it does also help to have the LBs that they do. Once the run is shut down, their stud DEs get unleashed on the QB. Many feel our current DEs are too small to be successful. I disagree. The following are the weights of the NYG DEs:

Osi-261
Strahan-255
Tuck-274
Kiwi-265

They have others who contribute, when all are healthy, these are the main 4. Now ours:

Elvis-260
Moss-265
Crowder-275
Engleberger-260

Seems pretty similar sizewise. Now look at the DTs:
NY
Alford-304
Cofield-306
Davis-306
Robbins-317

Denver
Harris-305
Peterson-292
McKinley-294
Thomas-315

And now LBs:
NY
Pierce-240
Mitchell-253
Torbor-250

Denver
Gold-223
Webster-232
Williams-242


I think any talk of our DEs still being a problem is off base. Sure, Moss needs to get healthy, but collectively the sizes match up w/ the NYGiants who just put on a clinic. We know Elvis can get to the QB, but Crowder and Moss need time to mature into their games. Who is to say they can't find smilar success? The issue, as it appears to me is that the NYG have placed girth around their DEs to protect them while we have not. We obviously have better CBs than NYG, but we need to help them and the DEs out. We need to get bigger and tougher at DT and LB.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 02:31 PM
Gold is the first thing that needs to go... he is just too small and no where near as fast as he once was.

Lynch is another liability because he just doesn't have the range he once had and he has never been great in coverage.

We must get bigger up front and we must add another linebacker.

Also, if Strahan is only 255 I would be really shocked. No way he is only 255.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 02:33 PM
That's his listed weight...I was taken aback and don't agree w/ it either, but he's not that much bigger than our guys regardless.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 02:39 PM
I don't think we need another DE. I think we are ok with Crowder and Doom. I am more worried about getting a big body or presence next to Doom so he doesn't have to worry about double teams or be chipped by the backers coming out of the backfield every time. If we had more talent in the middle it would open up the outside more which we are loaded at.. Champ, Bly, Doom, Crowder

It would also protect our linebacker core and we wouldn't have to bring a safety up into the box every play to protect the run.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 02:41 PM
I want a fat DT and 2 LBs who weigh more than 235. oh...and I want em to be good at football. That's all.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 02:44 PM
Gimme Jon Goff (240) for the middle and Beau Bell (245) for the outside. Both can be had in round 2 or later since all the junios have declared. I dunno what to do about DT, cuz Ellis isn't dropping.

I guess Sims, Harrison..or hope Balmer can add 15-20.

Broncolingus
02-04-2008, 02:45 PM
Denver needs a players on the defensive line that can 1) plug running lanes, and 2) pressure the QB with the down-four.

...and not everyone of them needs to be a pro-bowler every year.

Forget quick.

Forget agile.

Forget system.

...just four good, solid, physical players who can punch the other team in the face for a change and challenge the line of scrimmage.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 02:50 PM
Beau Bell is a bad football player... He showed everyone just how unalthletic he is at the Senior Bowl practices before he got hurt.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 02:52 PM
I want Phillip Wheeler... he is really, really good. It would be ideal if we could do Balmer in round 1 and Wheeler in round 2 or Connor and Wheeler in round 1 and 2.

MHCBill
02-04-2008, 02:57 PM
Gimme Jon Goff (240) for the middle and Beau Bell (245) for the outside. Both can be had in round 2 or later since all the junios have declared. I dunno what to do about DT, cuz Ellis isn't dropping.

I guess Sims, Harrison..or hope Balmer can add 15-20.Again, please see sig below...

MHCBill
02-04-2008, 02:58 PM
That's his listed weight...I was taken aback and don't agree w/ it either, but he's not that much bigger than our guys regardless.No way Strahan is 255... maybe 275.

MHCBill
02-04-2008, 03:01 PM
More than anything last night the personal was used correctly.

To me, you need talent, but you also need to have a coach that uses the talent to the best of their abilities.

Spagnola (Giants DC) comes from Jim Johnson in Philly. This is the EXACT kind of coordinator I want on defense. Aggressive, creative, penetrate scheme, adjustments, etc.

I pray Slowik is cut from this mold.

Player's talents, players being used correctly, and play-calling is what make that defense work last night. Not their size and weight.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 03:13 PM
Beau Bell is a bad football player... He showed everyone just how unalthletic he is at the Senior Bowl practices before he got hurt.

Then what do you think of Gooden (Miami FL) on the outside? He's just under 240, but as athletic as Shanny likes his LBs to be.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 03:26 PM
Then what do you think of Gooden (Miami FL) on the outside? He's just under 240, but as athletic as Shanny likes his LBs to be.

Gooden is really good.

G_Money
02-04-2008, 04:03 PM
IMO Gooden is a lesser version of DJ - great athlete, non-instinctive football player.

He does some really weird stuff on the field to take himself out of plays, but if he's in the right place he normally makes the play.

I don't want him, because we already have DJ who's better.

Gooden's a guy who needs a great combine to hold his spot. He got helped when Maualuga and Laurinaitis dropped out of the draft, but he's the sort of guy who should wow at the combine. Lots of physical skills but needs work on technique, reading plays, and reacting.

So if his physical skills aren't on full display at the combine, it could turn some teams against his upside. If he rips up the Combine, late 2nd/3rd rounder.

If he doesn't...well, it's hard to spend a really good pick on an athletic project who's gonna need some seasoning before he can reasonably start for you.

As for another DE...I'd rather see what Moss comes back like before we make that call.

~G

tubby
02-04-2008, 04:19 PM
Ebenezer Ekuban 275

BigDaddyBronco
02-04-2008, 04:21 PM
Ebenezer Ekuban 275
If he can walk. At least he'll be cheap.

tubby
02-04-2008, 04:22 PM
If he can walk. At least he'll be cheap.

And better than Engleberger.

broncohead
02-04-2008, 05:27 PM
Like G money said we should wait to see if Moss can recover from injury and come back and perform. I think that Moss does come back and does perform. I think that he'll be an every down DE. Crowder will start on the other side and he'll slide inside on passing downs letting Dume rush on the edge. I think that if we can land Ellis without trading into the top 5 then great but if we can't I would like to see us go after a big DT like Sims, Harrison, or Bryant to keep the OL off our LB.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 06:27 PM
Ebenezer is a huge question mark, and the position he plays doesnt help when it comes to production after coming off an achilles tear. Youre constantly putting great pressure on the heel by exploding off the ball. I really dont see us putting much hope in Ebenezer coming back to be a productive DE this year. Im sure thats what we will hope for, but we wont walk into the season looking at him as being a cog in the wheel that will take us to where we want to go. And can we really look at Moss any differently?

Moss is different in that his injury is different and hes quite a bit younger, but still, there will be a lot of timidness on his part Im sure.

Any defensive line help we get, will help this team tremendously if they can make an impact.

Also, space eating DTs will help Gold to play better believe it or not. But at 3 mil? I dont think so. Gold will be making some adjustments this offseason or will be gone. Id look for a supplemental draft pick as coming from him leaving.

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 07:04 PM
I hope they consider Bobby McCray DE 6-6 261 26 Unrestricted Jacksonville

He would give us more depth at the DE position.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 08:32 PM
Maybe we can get one of the Giants DEs.

Kiwi perhaps? They got Tuck, so they dont need Kiwi right?

Lets

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/dontstopmenow.gif a trade with NY, and leave them Kiwi, and ask for Tuck. How about for Gold and some bass bait? Ok, I'll throw in a fourth with a cheeseburger sans ketchup.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-04-2008, 08:55 PM
I wouldn't mind Gooden at LB; but I'd agree with G's assessment on him.

As far as needing another end, I don't think it could hurt. Obviously not a day one priority, but getting a guy in the fourth or fifth who could serve as a rotational strong end guy wouldn't be too bad of an idea; because we need some good run defending DE's. Ekuban's a big question mark and a mid-round choice will be cheaper than a FA, and has more benefits long-term.

Kendall Langford will probably rise, but he's a name that should be interesting.

I like Wallace Gilberry, he has versatility at the ends spots and pretty decent size. Would be a nice fourth or fifth round pick.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 09:48 PM
Maybe we can get one of the Giants DEs.

Kiwi perhaps? They got Tuck, so they dont need Kiwi right?

Lets

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/dontstopmenow.gif a trade with NY, and leave them Kiwi, and ask for Tuck. How about for Gold and some bass bait? Ok, I'll throw in a fourth with a cheeseburger sans ketchup.

Tuck just signed long term and Kiwi is hurt. If Strahanm goes after this year, Tuck will take his spot and they will hope Kiwi is healthy enough to fill Tuck's role.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 10:10 PM
Tuck just signed long term and Kiwi is hurt. If Strahanm goes after this year, Tuck will take his spot and they will hope Kiwi is healthy enough to fill Tuck's role.


Yes I know.


I was being funny but ya missed it.



:confused:




Or maybe I did.:D

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 10:22 PM
Yes I know.


I was being funny but ya missed it.



:confused:




Or maybe I did.:D

My bad...missed it...got a killer headache tonight and didn't see the burger part.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 10:34 PM
Denver will draft according to who in the draft they think can come in and replace someone on our roster as a starter, or at the least contribute immediately in an area of weakness. If you look at their thought process last year according to Sundquist, http://www.broncosforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=99072&postcount=1
then the Broncos will be looking for players that will come in to play, perhaps compete if depth is desired. But they wont us a draft pick on someone they dont think can crack the roster, which is sound thinking in my book for the most part, but leaves you wanting when it comes to possibly hitting the jackpot with a late round steal.


Since they were going to trade BACK into the first round with either Philly or Dallas in order to take Timmons or Harrell, then I would venture to say that Denvers draft selection for this year was toast. Dallas was definitely trying to aquire an extra first rounder for the 2008 draft to give them flexibility to draft McFadden for the senile Jerry Jones. If conventional wisdom serves us, Denver would have been giving up our first rounder this year, our second last year, and possibly another 2nd day pick, for the right to have the 22nd selection, in order to take one of the two above once aquiring Moss at 21 if he had been there. Denver wanted two out of the three guys, Moss, Harrell and Timmons, and were willing to give up this years first rounder to get them. Hence, Crowder would not have been drafted in the second, and wouldnt have needed him since we already had two guys. Since Timmons and Harrell were taken before Jacksonville selected at 17, Denver changed its strategy, and here come Crowder, Harris, and Thomas.

All that being said, does anyone really think that Denver is afraid to trade away next years pick in order to move up? Throw in next years first rounder with this years 12th selection, and where does that take you? Very possibly the top three to five selections of this years draft.

Lookin on the defensive side of the ball, would it be safe to say that the three areas we're lookin at would be DT, LB and Safety? I think so. But at the same time, if a guy like Chris Long were there for the taking if we had a trade partner in the top five, would we pull the trigger? Sedrick Ellis?

Dont tell me that Denver wouldnt consider going up to get an impact player on the Dline. Say we went up to get Ellis or Dorsey, and used the 12th selection along with next years first rounder. That would leave us with a high second, two fourths, two fifths and two sevenths to hit OL, LB and any other best available athlete that may come in and help. I would think we could get some help with those seven selections somewhere along the lines of our team, even RB considering the depth in this years draft.

All being said and done, dont be surprised to see Denver move up.

Even for an impact defensive end like Long.
Crowder, with a little more beef, can be a dominating DT IMO, who not only can stop the rush, but also collapse the pocket and get to the QB, ala Trevor Pryce.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 10:48 PM
I don't doubt Shanny's willingness to move up in the draft, but from where we stand, I think dropping for extra/future pix may be the way to go. If we were to move up, it would almost HAVE to be for one of the DTs. If 1 drops to 7 or 8, yes, go get him. But I don't wanna mortgage the future and jump 7-10 spots for him. We move back and still be in position for a DT like Balmer or 1 of the OTs...or even a RB like Mendenhall and that does wonders for our future. We don't know how good or bad we'll be next year. I'd hate to pull a San Fran.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:01 PM
I don't doubt Shanny's willingness to move up in the draft, but from where we stand, I think dropping for extra/future pix may be the way to go. If we were to move up, it would almost HAVE to be for one of the DTs. If 1 drops to 7 or 8, yes, go get him. But I don't wanna mortgage the future and jump 7-10 spots for him. We move back and still be in position for a DT like Balmer or 1 of the OTs...or even a RB like Mendenhall and that does wonders for our future. We don't know how good or bad we'll be next year. I'd hate to pull a San Fran.

Theres a problem with that though. In order to move to 7 or 8, it would not take our first next year. It would take our second this year, and I dont see us giving up our picks this year cause I think we're gonna move to aquire picks. I think perhaps we may give up our two fourths for a third, but other than that, not really packaging picks this year unless its the later rounders, which really dont add up to much.

If we went and got Balmer and Mendenhall or whatever by moving down, I wouldnt be surprised, and actually would think Denver would be moving in that direction first. But Im saying, had the players been there, this years number one pick was gone. Done deal. Im only bringing it up for discussions sake, cause its telling us that Denver is willing to give up a future number one for players it feels can help them today.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 11:04 PM
But consider that we also have Foxxy as trade bait. He could be included, maybe with a 4th or 5th, in a trade that gets us in the 7 or 8 range.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:06 PM
Aside from NO or BUF, who ahead of us would give up their #1 to move down to 12 and needs a DB badly enough to do so?

lex
02-04-2008, 11:12 PM
Like G money said we should wait to see if Moss can recover from injury and come back and perform. I think that Moss does come back and does perform. I think that he'll be an every down DE. Crowder will start on the other side and he'll slide inside on passing downs letting Dume rush on the edge. I think that if we can land Ellis without trading into the top 5 then great but if we can't I would like to see us go after a big DT like Sims, Harrison, or Bryant to keep the OL off our LB.

I wonder what kind of stamina Bryant has. At TAM this year he played in smaller doses than, say, Okam. Its hard to compare apples to apples. Honestly, why not Laws out of Notre Dame? He probably had the second best week of the DTs at the senior bowl.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-04-2008, 11:14 PM
Aside from NO or BUF, who ahead of us would give up their #1 to move down to 12 and needs a DB badly enough to do so?

Well...pending on who Bmore and NE are eyeing, trading back may be the way to go. Foxxy is young and has potential. The Ravens CBs are aging and NEs CBs werer disappointing outside of Samuel who is likely gone. NE will need a LB...and 1 can be had at 12. Why not move back? Again, it depends on who they want to draft and where they think they can get them.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:17 PM
I wonder what kind of stamina Bryant has. At TAM this year he played in smaller doses than, say, Okam. Its hard to compare apples to apples. Honestly, why not Laws out of Notre Dame? He probably had the second best week of the DTs at the senior bowl.

Bryant was also moved around quite a bit. Sometimes playing NT, DT and DE. He sure had more plays off than Okam, but the Aggie defense was on the field alot more than UT's and the pathetic A&M LB's certainly benefitted from his presence

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:20 PM
But consider that we also have Foxxy as trade bait. He could be included, maybe with a 4th or 5th, in a trade that gets us in the 7 or 8 range.


True. It would depend on the team Im sure.

lex
02-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Bryant was also moved around quite a bit. Sometimes playing NT, DT and DE. He sure had more plays off than Okam, but the Aggie defense was on the field alot more than UT's and the pathetic A&M LB's certainly benefitted from his presence

Im just saying that though he may have been impressive in drills at the senior bowl, stamina is a question. Its great that he did well at the senior bowl but what will happen if he is expected to perform at that level for sustained periods? Its a question with him. Id rather have Laws for a couple of reasons. 1) He can get skinny and slip through the line and 2) for him to accumulate the tackles he had at ND, he has to stay in games and be somewhat consistent. And aside from Ellis, he was the toughest DT to block at the SB.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:23 PM
Well...pending on who Bmore and NE are eyeing, trading back may be the way to go. Foxxy is young and has potential. The Ravens CBs are aging and NEs CBs werer disappointing outside of Samuel who is likely gone. NE will need a LB...and 1 can be had at 12. Why not move back? Again, it depends on who they want to draft and where they think they can get them.

With the million different ways we can go at 12, I'm leaning towards moving back a little and adding a 2nd rounder...if we can find such a deal. Then as our options dwindle a little, maybe it's easier to make a choice. I'd be happy moving back and getting Balmer while adding a #2.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:26 PM
Im just saying that though he may have been impressive in drills at the senior bowl, stamina is a question. Its great that he did well at the senior bowl but what will happen if he is expected to perform at that level for sustained periods? Its a question with him. Id rather have Laws for a couple of reasons. 1) He can get skinny and slip through the line and 2) for him to accumulate the tackles he had at ND, he has to stay in games and be somewhat consistent. And aside from Ellis, he was the toughest DT to block at the SB.

Well, it all comes down to the sytem Slowik runs. Will he have a tendency to have the DT's hold up the line for the LB's on his blitz packages or will he prefer penetrating DT's? Only he knows that answer. On the other hand...Thomas is not the guy you'd want for Bates system and Shanny still drafted him, so anything goes.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:28 PM
Well...pending on who Bmore and NE are eyeing, trading back may be the way to go. Foxxy is young and has potential. The Ravens CBs are aging and NEs CBs werer disappointing outside of Samuel who is likely gone. NE will need a LB...and 1 can be had at 12. Why not move back? Again, it depends on who they want to draft and where they think they can get them.

Im in agreement on this. As far as Baltimore goes, it would depend on what they thought about the QBs at the top as well, and where they place Troy Smith in their roster for next year. As for NE, with Samuel all but gone unless he doesnt want to be rich beyond his position, then NE will look at a CB like Foxworth as valuable. Especially since he is willing to play anywhere, do anything. Not to mention the fact that Belichicks scheme is able to take a guy like Foxworth and put him on the next level. NE does not man up a whole lot, but plays flexing zones. Foxworth is smart, fast, hungry and coachable. He just cant beat out Bly or Champ.

If they got Foxy and Rivers by trading with Denver, I think they would like that.

Not only would that be enticing for NE, but looking at it from our perspective, it would be wise. That means they would be giving up a late second round pick for Foxworth, filling a hole they need filled, and getting out of a high selection they wont need.

lex
02-04-2008, 11:30 PM
Honestly, I think we should draft a RB in round 1.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:32 PM
Honestly, I think we should draft a RB in round 1.

My initial instinct is to go with the BPA. I think that unless someone slips, Mendenhall may be that guy

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:33 PM
With the million different ways we can go at 12, I'm leaning towards moving back a little and adding a 2nd rounder...if we can find such a deal. Then as our options dwindle a little, maybe it's easier to make a choice. I'd be happy moving back and getting Balmer while adding a #2.


That would mean moving down to around 19. Good ole Philly. One of our trade partners from last year.

lex
02-04-2008, 11:35 PM
My initial instinct is to go with the BPA. I think that unless someone slips, Mendenhall may be that guy

I wouldnt complain at all if we took Mendenhall. Id even be happy trading up for McFadden as long as we preserve picks this year. Both of those guys are physical AND capable of the big play.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:36 PM
Well, it all comes down to the sytem Slowik runs. Will he have a tendency to have the DT's hold up the line for the LB's on his blitz packages or will he prefer penetrating DT's? Only he knows that answer. On the other hand...Thomas is not the guy you'd want for Bates system and Shanny still drafted him, so anything goes.

Yep. Ellis fits Slowick scheme.........unless of course Shanny is telling him how to play things. Although Thomas is a penetrator also, he has such ability as to become more I think.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:37 PM
That would mean moving down to around 19. Good ole Philly. One of our trade partners from last year.

But does Philly want the 12 spot bad enough to give up their #2? I don't see them needing anything that high that they couldn't get at 19

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:38 PM
Yep. Ellis fits Slowick scheme.........unless of course Shanny is telling him how to play things. Although Thomas is a penetrator also, he has such ability as to become more I think.

Yeah, I'd like to see what Thomas could do playing between Crowder/Doom and a space eating DT. I think it would eliminate some double teams and help create more pressure up the middle.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:40 PM
My initial instinct is to go with the BPA. I think that unless someone slips, Mendenhall may be that guy


Im with that line of thinking first and foremost. Just dont bring in a bench warmer or third down player/situational player. I want someone who will start, and make an immediate impact.

If not week one, than no later than week three..........:salute:

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:42 PM
But does Philly want the 12 spot bad enough to give up their #2? I don't see them needing anything that high that they couldn't get at 19

How about the best receiver in the draft, or possibly Walker?

They also need alot of help at LBer, and another DE.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:42 PM
Im with that line of thinking first and foremost. Just dont bring in a bench warmer or third down player/situational player. I want someone who will start, and make an immediate impact.

If not week one, than no later than week three..........:salute:

There could be some players that we could use (Clady/Phillips/Connor/Rivers), but are they better at their positions than Mendenhall? That's the tough question.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:42 PM
I wouldnt complain at all if we took Mendenhall. Id even be happy trading up for McFadden as long as we preserve picks this year. Both of those guys are physical AND capable of the big play.


I would only be happy drafting McFadden if he were the next Dickerson in ability.

lex
02-04-2008, 11:47 PM
I would only be happy drafting McFadden if he were the next Dickerson in ability.

Thats why I wouldnt hesitate to make the move for him. He just needs to throttle back about 5% when passing the LOS.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:49 PM
There could be some players that we could use (Clady/Phillips/Connor/Rivers), but are they better at their positions than Mendenhall? That's the tough question.


True, but if the upgrade is comin in either position, then I think you look at how much impact over the players you got comes into play. How much of a difference is Mendenhall over Henry/Young, versus those others over their prospective positional displacements.

As for Clady, it will all depend on what they think of Harris, and whether they think Clady can play from day one. If not, then we already have that guy at the minimum, in Harris.

I think Phillips would start at FS immediately. Connors, MLB, but DJ to OLB? Depends on what the Broncos feel these athletes can do.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 11:50 PM
Thats why I wouldnt hesitate to make the move for him. He just needs to throttle back about 5% when passing the LOS.


LOL.:tsk:

I am yet to see the man get the tough yards. I would not be happy drafting McFadden and getting Reggie Bush the 2nd.

lex
02-04-2008, 11:53 PM
LOL.:tsk:

I am yet to see the man get the tough yards. I would not be happy drafting McFadden and getting Reggie Bush the 2nd.

He's not Reggie Bush, dude. Arkansas has had no passing game for practically his entire time there and he has performed every year. He runs a significant number of his plays inside and he has a wicked stiff arm.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:57 PM
How about the best receiver in the draft, or possibly Walker?

They also need alot of help at LBer, and another DE.

But if they have these needs, why give up a 2nd when guys like Groves, Merling, Kelly, Jackson, Rivers, Connor, Campell, etc. could all be there at 19

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 11:58 PM
Would McFadden do that much more in Denver than what Mendenhall could do?

lex
02-05-2008, 12:06 AM
Would McFadden do that much more in Denver than what Mendenhall could do?

I actually think McFadden will better in the pros than in college since he will most likely have more help. All I can say is, yes, if you go by what you saw in college as a level of assurange. McFadden was more productive longer, while playing in a tougher conference, and without the help that Mendenhall had last year. Mendenhall had Juice Williams and Aurelius Benn. McFadden had Casey Dick and Peyton Hillis as the biggest components of Arkansas' passing game.

You can dig up videos of both players on youtube and both look good. Like I said, I think McFadden needs to throttle back like 5% when running past the LOS. I think that would make it easier for him to do a few things.

WARHORSE
02-05-2008, 12:08 AM
But if they have these needs, why give up a 2nd when guys like Groves, Merling, Kelly, Jackson, Rivers, Connor, Campell, etc. could all be there at 19

True. Not sayin they will. But it all depends on how they view the prospects and their own needs. They know what they have as far as depth goes over everyone else. But if they want like say, Rivers from USC, then going up to 12 may be something they want.

Next to that though, wouldnt you say a top end WR is missing from their team? Once T.O. left..................the rest is history.

They have no true threat at WR.

CoachChaz
02-05-2008, 12:16 AM
It's tough to say, they are more than content with riding Westbrook, but his legs will only last so long. After that, it's probably never a good thing when Kevin Curtis and Reggie Brown are your top receivers.

I think their LB's are okay with Gaither, Spikes, Gocong and Bradley.

Howard, Kearse and McDougle are useless anymore, so a compliment to Cole would help.

But where they might need the most help is at safety. Dawkins can't play forever, so if they are really big on Phillips, maybe we could deal with them then knowing that Carolina will jump on him at 13 if we don't.

Or maybe they just draft a receiver and then hold out for DaJuan Morgan in the 2nd

WARHORSE
02-05-2008, 12:45 AM
It's tough to say, they are more than content with riding Westbrook, but his legs will only last so long. After that, it's probably never a good thing when Kevin Curtis and Reggie Brown are your top receivers.

I think their LB's are okay with Gaither, Spikes, Gocong and Bradley.

Howard, Kearse and McDougle are useless anymore, so a compliment to Cole would help.

But where they might need the most help is at safety. Dawkins can't play forever, so if they are really big on Phillips, maybe we could deal with them then knowing that Carolina will jump on him at 13 if we don't.

Or maybe they just draft a receiver and then hold out for DaJuan Morgan in the 2nd

Im not fond of their LBs. Takeo was awesome in his prime, but hes beyond that now. Gacong may still have some upside.

But as for Westbrook, the one thing Philly lacks is a chain mover. A real between the tackles type of runner. I wouldnt put it high on their list, but its a need. They tailor their offense around Westbrook anyway, which is smart IMO. But without the threat at WR and TE...........the offense is nowhere near where it could be.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-05-2008, 09:02 AM
Philly could be eyeing a Safety w/ Dawkins againg and the other spot having average at best options. KP is a guy who may be there at 12, but not likely to be there at 19.

CoachChaz
02-05-2008, 09:10 AM
Philly could be eyeing a Safety w/ Dawkins againg and the other spot having average at best options. KP is a guy who may be there at 12, but not likely to be there at 19.

See post 59

Scarface
02-05-2008, 09:11 AM
Im not fond of their LBs. Takeo was awesome in his prime, but hes beyond that now. Gacong may still have some upside.

But as for Westbrook, the one thing Philly lacks is a chain mover. A real between the tackles type of runner. I wouldnt put it high on their list, but its a need. They tailor their offense around Westbrook anyway, which is smart IMO. But without the threat at WR and TE...........the offense is nowhere near where it could be.

Andy Reid won't have it high on his list either. It's not his style.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-05-2008, 09:25 AM
Plus they drafted a Penn State RB last year who can move the chains. I don't think they have a need right now.

Scarface
02-05-2008, 09:48 AM
Plus they drafted a Penn State RB last year who can move the chains. I don't think they have a need right now.

He moves those practice squad chains pretty well.

CoachChaz
02-05-2008, 10:21 AM
Come on now...those 16 yards he ran for during the season were vital to Philly's success.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-05-2008, 10:35 AM
Boss is gonna kick yer a$$!

mclark
02-05-2008, 11:24 AM
We need Ekuban back. If he can't make it back, then we need another defensive end.

Engelberger is a journeyman. If he's not on our team next year, I'll take that as a good sign.

Defensive tackle: Warren and Thomas would be a good starting tandem. Oh, that's right, we don't have Warren any longer.

We need help at defensive tackle.

We need two new linebackers: DJ Williams is the only starter we currently have on our roster.

We need a starting safety. John Lynch needs to retire I'm afraid.

mclark
02-05-2008, 11:29 AM
4th Round Prospect

Kendall Langford, 2008 NFL Draft Prospect
Kendall Langford Defensive End
6’ 6” 294 lbs.
speed: 4.95
Hampton
Senior

Last year I wrote an article in my Small School NFL Draft Prospects Blog about Hampton being a Small School Football Factory for the NFL Draft and this season we have another Hampton Prospect in the spotlight. Langford might be the best small school (Football Championship Series, formerly known as 1AA) prospect in the nation. His stats are impressive: Entering his senior season he has played in 36 games with 27 starts and recorded 164 total tackles, 42.5 tackles for loss, and 18.5 sacks. He reminds me of The Dallas Cowboy’s Jason Hatcher (6’6” 290 lbs) who was also from a small school (Grambling), Hatcher was drafted in the 3rd round and that is an early projected round for Langford.

Langford is a unanimous Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) Preseason All-American and the only player from the three-time defending Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (MEAC) champion Pirates to be awarded unanimous preseason honors. Last year as a junior he lead all Hampton defensive linemen in tackles with 55 and was ranked second in the league with 15.5 tackles for loss and third in quarterback sacks with eight. This season (2007) Kendall Langford will become the first Hampton defensive lineman to be named first team all-conference three years in a row since Isaac Readon did it from 1983 to 1985.

Langford will be a hotly sought after prospect in the 2008 NFL Draft because his size, athletic ability and versatility. He could bulk up a little and play defensive tackle, similar to how the Rams are using 2007 first round NFL Draft pick Adam Carricker, who has almost identical size. He could of course be played at his natural defensive end position, but I wouldn’t completely rule out the possibility of him trimming down and playing outside linebacker for a team utilizing the 34 defense. The Cowboys’ Greg Ellis made a similar transaction.

No matter how or where he is played, he has immense NFL potential. Langford is very aggressive; he will never be labeled as a pile inspector. He plays football with a very high motor and when you see him move you would never believe he is only a biscuit away from 300 pounds. He has quick feet like a linebacker, plays with his head up and quickly finds the ball and diagnosis the play. Langford will have to fight the small school pedigree and he will have to learn a wider assortment of pass rushing moves. His body is already NFL ready, but he won’t be able to bull rush or run around the tackles in the NFL, he will have to learn how to use his hands better. As we get closer to the Scouting Combine and the NFL Draft, Kendall Langford will a name whispered by all the NFL Scouts.

silkamilkamonico
02-05-2008, 11:32 AM
We need either DT or LB with our pick(if we go defense).

Build the front 7. Secondary's only relevant when you have a solid front 7. Any Denver fan should know that.

WARHORSE
02-05-2008, 05:59 PM
4th Round Prospect

Kendall Langford, 2008 NFL Draft Prospect
Kendall Langford Defensive End
6’ 6” 294 lbs.
speed: 4.95
Hampton
Senior

Last year I wrote an article in my Small School NFL Draft Prospects Blog about Hampton being a Small School Football Factory for the NFL Draft and this season we have another Hampton Prospect in the spotlight. Langford might be the best small school (Football Championship Series, formerly known as 1AA) prospect in the nation. His stats are impressive: Entering his senior season he has played in 36 games with 27 starts and recorded 164 total tackles, 42.5 tackles for loss, and 18.5 sacks. He reminds me of The Dallas Cowboy’s Jason Hatcher (6’6” 290 lbs) who was also from a small school (Grambling), Hatcher was drafted in the 3rd round and that is an early projected round for Langford.

Langford is a unanimous Division I Football Championship Subdivision (FCS) Preseason All-American and the only player from the three-time defending Mid-Eastern Athletic Conference (MEAC) champion Pirates to be awarded unanimous preseason honors. Last year as a junior he lead all Hampton defensive linemen in tackles with 55 and was ranked second in the league with 15.5 tackles for loss and third in quarterback sacks with eight. This season (2007) Kendall Langford will become the first Hampton defensive lineman to be named first team all-conference three years in a row since Isaac Readon did it from 1983 to 1985.

Langford will be a hotly sought after prospect in the 2008 NFL Draft because his size, athletic ability and versatility. He could bulk up a little and play defensive tackle, similar to how the Rams are using 2007 first round NFL Draft pick Adam Carricker, who has almost identical size. He could of course be played at his natural defensive end position, but I wouldn’t completely rule out the possibility of him trimming down and playing outside linebacker for a team utilizing the 34 defense. The Cowboys’ Greg Ellis made a similar transaction.

No matter how or where he is played, he has immense NFL potential. Langford is very aggressive; he will never be labeled as a pile inspector. He plays football with a very high motor and when you see him move you would never believe he is only a biscuit away from 300 pounds. He has quick feet like a linebacker, plays with his head up and quickly finds the ball and diagnosis the play. Langford will have to fight the small school pedigree and he will have to learn a wider assortment of pass rushing moves. His body is already NFL ready, but he won’t be able to bull rush or run around the tackles in the NFL, he will have to learn how to use his hands better. As we get closer to the Scouting Combine and the NFL Draft, Kendall Langford will a name whispered by all the NFL Scouts.


If hes any good, he'll be spocked out by the time the combine is done.

Scarface
02-05-2008, 10:33 PM
Come on now...those 16 yards he ran for during the season were vital to Philly's success.

I actually don't think he's a bad back. He'd be better off on a team that actually cares about running the ball.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-05-2008, 11:08 PM
Agreed...there will come a point when they decide to actually run...and they'll be glad they have him.

Scarface
02-06-2008, 09:51 AM
Agreed...there will come a point when they decide to actually run...and they'll be glad they have him.

When Reid retires maybe.

atwater27
02-06-2008, 11:26 AM
I am starting to think we should take the #12 opportunity to draft another defensive end if Ellis or Clady don't slip to us. Because Crowder could easily play DT and there are a few defensive ends in this draft that could play both positions as well. We have Doom and Moss for speed rushers, we need bulk and run stopping ability as well as interior penetration. I am starting to think this calais guy at 6'7 275 could be a pretty good pick. However, the other DE's are good as well.

CoachChaz
02-06-2008, 11:27 AM
Calais is a project, but could be another Mario Williams/Julius Peppers.