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Superchop 7
12-13-2009, 06:06 PM
Not a bad game.

My biggest disappointment was "not" using Hillis in short yardage situations.

Josh says that Hillis doesn't fit the mold of what he wants in a RB.

Yeah......why have a guy that can carry 3 guys on his back?

I do not get it.

He would rather lose with Moreno.....than win with Hillis.:mad:

Very nice adjustments by Nolan.

Offensive game plan could have been better.

slim
12-13-2009, 06:08 PM
SC, I will never salute any post you make..., but I almost saluted this one.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-13-2009, 06:08 PM
Yeah because hillis would have certainly won the game for us. Moreno failed to stop the colts from scoring 28 points.

shank
12-13-2009, 06:09 PM
SC, I will never salute any post you make, but I almost saluted this one.

it burned

broncofaninfla
12-13-2009, 06:39 PM
Yeah because hillis would have certainly won the game for us. Moreno failed to stop the colts from scoring 28 points.

Nolan and our defense kept giving the offense opportunities to take this game over and the offense FAILED. Mcd using Moreno on short yardage situations FAILED. Nolan was our better coach today and quite frankly has been our better coach for most of the season.

Somethings gotta give, nobody knows why Mcd won't use Hillis but his failure to do so clearly cost us an opportunity to compete in this game. The is not a person alive that can convince me that Hillis wouldn't have broke the arm tackles that brought Moreno down and as a result kept drives alive. This loss is on McD........

Ravage!!!
12-13-2009, 06:53 PM
Yeah because hillis would have certainly won the game for us. Moreno failed to stop the colts from scoring 28 points.

Pretty silly post. Would that have guaranteed us a win? No. but dont' you want to do everything you can to put yoruself in the BETTER position to win?

I just don't understand. Going for 4th down and short is too gutsy against the Colts anyway ( DAMN, I know McD wants to be a mini-me of BB, but the hoodie was enough. Do we REALLY have to copy his going for it on 4th against the Colts too?), but not using a 250lb power back to gain a single yard, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially twice.

I don't know. I just don't get it. The biggest, toughest, most powerful back you have on the team sitting on the sidelines for a 4th and 1?? I don't care if the other team knows what you are bringing if he comes into the lineup. Make them STOP him for that yard.

omahacolt
12-13-2009, 07:02 PM
SC, I will never salute any post you make, but I almost saluted this one.

i dont know the backstory on this but i thought this was a hilarious post

Watchthemiddle
12-13-2009, 07:13 PM
Using a 250lb power back or Moreno would not have mattered. Did anyone notice the ONE guy shooting through on 3-1 or 4-1 un-blocked? Kind of hard to pick up that ONE yard when ONE guy always comes through unblocked.

Execusion on short yardage plays has been dreadful...not the personel.

broncofaninfla
12-13-2009, 07:35 PM
Using a 250lb power back or Moreno would not have mattered. Did anyone notice the ONE guy shooting through on 3-1 or 4-1 un-blocked? Kind of hard to pick up that ONE yard when ONE guy always comes through unblocked.

Execusion on short yardage plays has been dreadful...not the personel.

Arm tackles were bringing Moreno down. Arm tackles have been bring down Moreno a lot this season.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 07:40 PM
Hillis would not have likely had any more success than Moreno given our porous offensive line play; which was the root of our problems today. People really need to stop being naive and recognize this isn't the same offensive line from last year that gave up few sacks and was solid in run support. We were terrible in short yardage last year as well. Nothing has changed. Address that.

Hillis isn't our guy. Wah. See yah.

shank
12-13-2009, 08:02 PM
Hillis would not have likely had any more success than Moreno given our porous offensive line play; which was the root of our problems today. People really need to stop being naive and recognize this isn't the same offensive line from last year that gave up few sacks and was solid in run support. We were terrible in short yardage last year as well. Nothing has changed. Address that.

Hillis isn't our guy. Wah. See yah.

this whole thing better be an act :tsk:

Watchthemiddle
12-13-2009, 08:06 PM
Arm tackles were bringing Moreno down. Arm tackles have been bring down Moreno a lot this season.

They just showed the highlights on the local news here. Those short yardage plays were not arm tackles....they were more like swarm tackles. To counter that, we could have done a play action much like the Colts did on their final TD to Dallas Clark. It was totally obvious what they were going to do (atleast to me it was) I was screaming watch the play action pass to Clark and sure enough, that's what they did. That is execution. When everyone in the building knows what you are going to run and you still pull it off to perfection.

We did not execute.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 08:12 PM
this whole thing better be an act :tsk:

No, our offensive line sucking is not an act.

honz
12-13-2009, 08:26 PM
Again, short yardage blocking has been a problem for years. We have undersized lineman up front and had to put in a career backup at LG because our other guy wasn't getting it done. The runner is not the problem. It's two of our lineman laying on their asses in every short yardage situation.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 08:27 PM
But Honz, Peyton Hillis can change all of that!

shank
12-13-2009, 08:31 PM
But Honz, Peyton Hillis can change all of that!

stop saying stuff like this. no one is saying that.

hillis is a more powerful runner than knowshon moreno. the bad blocking today would have been better handled by a more powerful runner, especially on those critical short yardage plays.

just one or two broken tackles, which we've all seen peyton do in the past, could have meant one or two more sustained drives.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 08:37 PM
I'm not sure if many people are actually familiar with how he played at Georgia and what most scouts and personnel people were saying in regards to him coming out of school. He was an extremely effective short yardage runner in Georgia. He has that ability. The games are there for people willing to watch that. I've seen him plow over runners this year. I've also seen him make them miss. I've seen the jukes and stiff arms. He is a better runner than Peyton, which is why he was a first round pick and is consistently on the field making plays and being involved in our offense.

Tough to get much done in short yardage when your interior is ineffective. Those are where those plays are going. Hillis would have been down just as quickly as Moreno when the Colts defenders were bolstering through the gaps consistently. When Hillis is gone at the end of the year and the Broncos make some changes to the offensive line, everything will come full circle.

Today was evident. The writing is on the wall for Hillis. Just about anything that could have helped him see time on the field happened, and he still barely gets time. Pretty hard to get offensive reps when you cannot even do your job on special teams. You earn play time in the league. It is about time he does what it takes to earn his share of the pie.

The McMoreno Crusade can stop now.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2009, 08:39 PM
:coffee:

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 08:42 PM
On behalf of Peyton Hillis, I would like to thank Ravage for his continued support in the Hillis Wars.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2009, 08:44 PM
On behalf of Peyton Hillis, I would like to thank Ravage for his continued support in the Hillis Wars.

and I'm sure Moreno will be sending you his room key soon

dogfish
12-13-2009, 08:48 PM
losing's always bitter, but i was actually somewhat encouraged-- after we fell behind bigtime and it looked like we were going to get smoked, we were able to come back and put ourselves in position to potentially win the game late. . . we had SOOOO many chances, and while it's disheartening to not capitalize, it's nice to know that a few different bounces and we can beat the best team in the conference. . .

two chances to put points up at the end of the first half, and both came up empty. . . two fourth downs and several third-and-shorts that we could have converted to keep drives alive. . . several drives stalled by dumb penalties. . . there are obviously some things that we need to clean up, but we're still in good shape to make the playoffs this year, and i really believe we can improve further over the offseason with another year to learn JMFMCD's and nolan's systems, and another year to continue flipping the roster. . .

i don't know that hillis could have bulled his way to successful conversions with the pennetration their DL was getting-- it's tough to generate much momentum when you're contacted in the backfield-- but you would like to see us try something different when we keep FAILING in those short yardage situations. . . and it's not that i don't love the grind-it-out mentality and desire to be a physical team, but there's no law that you can't throw a pass in a few of those situations instead of running right up the gut five or six times in a row. . . what's wrong with a little play-action and swing it out to the FB in the flat? or throwing one to the guy who, ya know, caught twenty-one passes on the day? JMFMCD needs to mix it up a little more, and i'm hoping he'll realize this when he goes back over all the game tape in the ofseason. . . you can't let fear of freeney and mathis force you into running a draw on third and six in the middle of the field. . .

and FTR. . . i LOVE the decisions to go for it on fourth down today. . .

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 08:50 PM
and I'm sure Moreno will be sending you his room key soon

To be able to shake the hand of our franchises greatest pick (perhaps soon to be best player to ever wear our colors) would be an incredible honor. Moreno is a stud!

Ravage!!!
12-13-2009, 08:57 PM
:lol: He's not even the best player drafted in the last 5 years. (Marshall and Clady).

Your man-crush is truly clouding any kind of reasonable line of thinking. I realize you are exaggerating your statements to hide that you truly believe this.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 09:00 PM
:lol: He's not even the best player drafted in the last 5 years. (Marshall and Clady).

Your man-crush is truly clouding any kind of reasonable line of thinking. I realize you are exaggerating your statements to hide that you truly believe this.

I think Moreno can be one of the best players we have actually ever had, especially in recent memory when our drafts (outside Clady, Marshall, Dumervil, etc.) have been clouded with busts and oft-injured journeymen. That wasn't an exaggeration. That is actually how I feel. I think he can be that good.

Our greatest pick ever? No probably not. That is just me making you guys pull your hair out and stress out for no good reason.

I think Moreno was a solid pick, good rookie player and will only continue to get better as time goes on. He's 22 years old. I see plenty of bright football in his future.

Timmy!
12-13-2009, 09:00 PM
To be able to shake the hand of our franchises greatest pick (perhaps soon to be best player to ever wear our colors) would be an incredible honor. Moreno is a stud!

:offthedeepend:

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 09:01 PM
Are you kidding me Timmy? You are telling me you wouldn't wanna hang out with Knowshon Moreno? !

Timmy!
12-13-2009, 09:07 PM
Hanging with Moreno would be sweet, I was referring to the "greatest pick" and "soon to be greatest to ever where our colors" part.

my 2 cents, is that our LG, C suck in short yardage running situations, and it killed Moreno. I think Moreno is more complete back than Hillis. I also think Hillis is a good option in short yardage power situations (especially with no BUCK in there). Moreno is a rookie, and he was gassed big time out there, not to mention limping a bit, but they made him play every friggin down almost. Why the hell we couldn't at least try to give Hillis a shot in short yardage given the circumstances is beyond me. Beats the hell out of running our stud rookie RB into the ground when we are going to need him the next 3 games. Sure wish we would run off tackle more as well. The offensive play calling today was effing retarded at times.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 09:08 PM
I don't know why Hillis didn't get a shot, Timmy.

Ravage!!!
12-13-2009, 09:12 PM
I think Moreno can be one of the best players we have actually ever had, especially in recent memory when our drafts (outside Clady, Marshall, Dumervil, etc.) have been clouded with busts and oft-injured journeymen. That wasn't an exaggeration. That is actually how I feel. I think he can be that good.

Our greatest pick ever? No probably not. That is just me making you guys pull your hair out and stress out for no good reason.

I think Moreno was a solid pick, good rookie player and will only continue to get better as time goes on. He's 22 years old. I see plenty of bright football in his future.

There isn't a lot here I disagree with. I think you are exaggerating the kid's ability. But to be honest, I never judge from rookie number and/or play.

But tearing down Hillis isn't helping your case to compliment Moreno. There is no reason to think that there isn't room to USE a HUGE back like Hillis when you have him.

Timmy!
12-13-2009, 09:12 PM
I don't know why Hillis didn't get a shot, Timmy.

Only thing I can figure was because Larsen was out (which really hurt btw, he has become a very nice bulldozer in run blocking). I'm not on the Hillis riding jock like some, but would have liked to see him on the field. McD just doesn't trust him I guess. I was really worried that Moreno was going to get seriously hurt being out there on every friggin offensive snap.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-13-2009, 09:18 PM
What do you mean tearing him down? I'm offering my opinions as to why he isn't being given a role on a team. I think they are pretty logical?

shank
12-13-2009, 09:18 PM
Only thing I can figure was because Larsen was out (which really hurt btw, he has become a very nice bulldozer in run blocking). I'm not on the Hillis riding jock like some, but would have liked to see him on the field. McD just doesn't trust him I guess. I was really worried that Moreno was going to get seriously hurt being out there on every friggin offensive snap.

that's the only reason i can think that he will give. and it makes no sense.

more willing to protect your 2nd string fullback from injury than your 1st string, 1st round, young stud tailback? even though we barely make use of our fullbacks? logical...


if it's a trust issue, i hope that peyton banged McD's wife or something, cause if it's because of a block in the back and a fumble in the first two weeks of the season, then that is absolutely ridiculous...

Timmy!
12-13-2009, 09:22 PM
I hope Hillis gets some carries against the Faiders, if for no other reason, to keep Buck and Moreno fresh. Moreno is getting close to the rookie wall, and Buck is right at (maybe over now, not bothering to look) his career high in carries in a season. I'd really like to have them healthy come playoff time.

BCJ
12-13-2009, 11:11 PM
we got to get off the Hillis short yardage thing. I think he could be an improvement but if we are going to stick with Moreno, have him run outside on those 3rd and 4th down situations. We ran a QB sneak once and it worked, why not use that more often? We fail at this situation and it is getting old. McD needs to come up with a game plan that works. Hillis did get a chance on the 2 point conversion and was stuffed (and lost the ball). The line just stinks in that situation. Also, why doesnt Moreno ever follow his fullback on these short yardage situations?

GEM
12-13-2009, 11:27 PM
To be able to shake the hand of our franchises greatest pick (perhaps soon to be best player to ever wear our colors) would be an incredible honor. Moreno is a stud!


Franchises greatest pick? Best player to ever wear our colors?


:laugh:

You mean this year, right? Not the entire franchise history, right?

Your Hillis hate is understandable, you don't like the guy, whatev. But to put Moreno on some pedestal while having to trash Hillis every chance you get by making these type of ridiculous claims just looks silly.

shank
12-13-2009, 11:44 PM
we got to get off the Hillis short yardage thing. I think he could be an improvement but if we are going to stick with Moreno, have him run outside on those 3rd and 4th down situations. We ran a QB sneak once and it worked, why not use that more often? We fail at this situation and it is getting old. McD needs to come up with a game plan that works. Hillis did get a chance on the 2 point conversion and was stuffed (and lost the ball). The line just stinks in that situation. Also, why doesnt Moreno ever follow his fullback on these short yardage situations?

that was moreno who failed and fumbled.

GEM
12-14-2009, 12:22 AM
we got to get off the Hillis short yardage thing. I think he could be an improvement but if we are going to stick with Moreno, have him run outside on those 3rd and 4th down situations. We ran a QB sneak once and it worked, why not use that more often? We fail at this situation and it is getting old. McD needs to come up with a game plan that works. Hillis did get a chance on the 2 point conversion and was stuffed (and lost the ball). The line just stinks in that situation. Also, why doesnt Moreno ever follow his fullback on these short yardage situations?

That part has been driving me crazy!

CoachChaz
12-14-2009, 10:24 AM
Moreno is a rookie RB with a ton of talent and first round money. Hillis is a 7th round fullback. Based on that weak logic alone...get use to seeing Moreno ALOT more than Hillis.

I'll agree Hillis should get more carries, but if he's in there in short yardage situations...you're kind of tipping your hat.

getagrip
12-14-2009, 11:11 AM
Pretty silly post. Would that have guaranteed us a win? No. but dont' you want to do everything you can to put yoruself in the BETTER position to win?

I just don't understand. Going for 4th down and short is too gutsy against the Colts anyway ( DAMN, I know McD wants to be a mini-me of BB, but the hoodie was enough. Do we REALLY have to copy his going for it on 4th against the Colts too?), but not using a 250lb power back to gain a single yard, just doesn't make a lot of sense. Especially twice.

I don't know. I just don't get it. The biggest, toughest, most powerful back you have on the team sitting on the sidelines for a 4th and 1?? I don't care if the other team knows what you are bringing if he comes into the lineup. Make them STOP him for that yard.

Yes, troll here but...

I think you are onto something about that. I watched the game too (many games of the Broncos) and what I see being an outsider is the coach wants so bad to be like NE's coach. Even down to the hoodie....

difference is what was in NE is not what is in Denver Talent wise. Yes, I think NE is on a slow down turn, but I just see MCD trying so hard to be something he isn't (yet) and that is a proven coach.

Some of his play calling is just the same as watching the NE games.. and well, what worked for his "old" team isn't working here. Denver has talent but not being used right. An example is Hallis...

Just my two cents...

Good luck to you guys down this Dec road...

Ravage!!!
12-14-2009, 11:21 AM
Moreno is a rookie RB with a ton of talent and first round money. Hillis is a 7th round fullback. Based on that weak logic alone...get use to seeing Moreno ALOT more than Hillis.

I'll agree Hillis should get more carries, but if he's in there in short yardage situations...you're kind of tipping your hat.

Right.. you are tipping your hat. That can work in two different directions. You can draw the LBs and safeties in, thus leaving a PA available, or.. you can execute the SAME play you just did with the smaller back, yet do it with a 250lb RB pounding for the 1 yrd gain.

I don't think ANYONE is saying that Hillis should start over Moreno. I think we are seeing our team attempt 4th and one, and not using the best asset we have to accomplish that task.

CoachChaz
12-14-2009, 11:27 AM
Right.. you are tipping your hat. That can work in two different directions. You can draw the LBs and safeties in, thus leaving a PA available, or.. you can execute the SAME play you just did with the smaller back, yet do it with a 250lb RB pounding for the 1 yrd gain.

I don't think ANYONE is saying that Hillis should start over Moreno. I think we are seeing our team attempt 4th and one, and not using the best asset we have to accomplish that task.

...and I'm sure there is a reason for that. What strikes me first and foremost is that our line fails. So there are two ways to attack that problem when it comes to the runner. Use a shifty guy that might be able to slip past the defense...or use a guy that is going to try to run over 3 people.

I'm just going on the assumption that our coach knows a little more than we do

Ravage!!!
12-14-2009, 11:29 AM
...and I'm sure there is a reason for that. What strikes me first and foremost is that our line fails. So there are two ways to attack that problem when it comes to the runner. Use a shifty guy that might be able to slip past the defense...or use a guy that is going to try to run over 3 people.

I'm just going on the assumption that our coach knows a little more than we do

Of course he does. He better. Doesn't mean coaches don't make bad choices and/or decisions. DOesn't mean we can't see that THIS wasn't working, and HASN'T been working. So if his train of thought is to use the shiftier guy to get past the DL... well.... You know what they say "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result."

CoachChaz
12-14-2009, 11:33 AM
Of course he does. He better. Doesn't mean coaches don't make bad choices and/or decisions. DOesn't mean we can't see that THIS wasn't working, and HASN'T been working. So if his train of thought is to use the shiftier guy to get past the DL... well.... You know what they say "The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result."

I'm not disagreeing with the thought of changing backs...but IMO and obviously in the coaches is it really doesnt matter who has the ball...the line will choke anyway.

Either way, there is a reason that he isnt using Hillis and "ego" is the last thing I'm going to blame it on

Ravage!!!
12-14-2009, 11:39 AM
I'm not disagreeing with the thought of changing backs...but IMO and obviously in the coaches is it really doesnt matter who has the ball...the line will choke anyway.

Either way, there is a reason that he isnt using Hillis and "ego" is the last thing I'm going to blame it on

No. I don 't think it has to do with ego. But we know that people are people. For whatever reason, McDaniels has a thing against Hillis. I don't know what it is, but I'm not buying into the "he doesn't get the black jersey at practice" thing, either. Thats given out by the coaches, right? :shrugs: Doesn't matter. I don't expect HIllis to be getting the start over Moreno.

I do know that I felt very comfortable with our stable of backs BEFORE the draft, and that was because we had Hillis as a part of that stable of players. To me, Moreno was a luxury pick because of that. Now I'm confused as to why we wouldn't take advantage of a 250lb beast that has proven he can RUN and Catch the ball VERY well in the NFL. I don't think its ego. I don't know what it is, and thus why I'm :confused:

dogfish
12-14-2009, 11:45 AM
Moreno is a rookie RB with a ton of talent and first round money. Hillis is a 7th round fullback. Based on that weak logic alone...get use to seeing Moreno ALOT more than Hillis.

I'll agree Hillis should get more carries, but if he's in there in short yardage situations...you're kind of tipping your hat.

anyone who's watched film of the broncos this year pretty much knows what we're going to run in short yardage situations anyway, because the vast majority of the time it's either a trap or a dive. . . i bet if we mixed in a little play-action next time we're in that situation we could probably end up with a tight end running wide stinkin' open down the seam. . . which clay would call lucky, but i'd be happy with it. . .

CoachChaz
12-14-2009, 11:55 AM
No. I don 't think it has to do with ego. But we know that people are people. For whatever reason, McDaniels has a thing against Hillis. I don't know what it is, but I'm not buying into the "he doesn't get the black jersey at practice" thing, either. Thats given out by the coaches, right? :shrugs: Doesn't matter. I don't expect HIllis to be getting the start over Moreno.

I do know that I felt very comfortable with our stable of backs BEFORE the draft, and that was because we had Hillis as a part of that stable of players. To me, Moreno was a luxury pick because of that. Now I'm confused as to why we wouldn't take advantage of a 250lb beast that has proven he can RUN and Catch the ball VERY well in the NFL. I don't think its ego. I don't know what it is, and thus why I'm :confused:

Well, even the Mastermind didnt use him until he HAD to. Maybe that says something about Hillis. I dont know

Ravage!!!
12-14-2009, 12:19 PM
Well, even the Mastermind didnt use him until he HAD to. Maybe that says something about Hillis. I dont know

Thats not true though. We were throwing him into the mix quite a bit, especially on screens, LONG before he was asked to be the starting RB.

But when put on the field, as the starting RB, is when he proved himself.

CoachChaz
12-14-2009, 12:23 PM
Thats not true though. We were throwing him into the mix quite a bit, especially on screens, LONG before he was asked to be the starting RB.

But when put on the field, as the starting RB, is when he proved himself.

I'm still not sure that one and a half good games is proving ones self, but I see your point