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BOSSHOGG30
02-02-2008, 02:20 PM
Bucs GM Bruce Allen reiterated Friday that he hopes Jake Plummer will join the team for training camp.

"The light is still on," Allen said. "We've talked to Jake...he's a good guy. We hope he changes his mind." Plummer is currently living in Idaho. If he doesn't report to Tampa by late April, the Broncos will get the Bucs' seventh-round pick. If he surprisingly does show, Denver would get a fourth-rounder.
Source: Denver Post

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 02:28 PM
Fingers crossed

nevcraw
02-02-2008, 02:37 PM
and my toes!

Bronco9798
02-02-2008, 02:39 PM
Forget it, Jake is done.

Broncogator
02-02-2008, 03:16 PM
Forget it, Jake is done.

He was done the day we singed Jay

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 03:52 PM
I know he's done...but maybe he can at least take a few snaps next month just to make sure...

dogfish
02-02-2008, 04:33 PM
I know he's done...but maybe he can at least take a few snaps next month just to make sure...

think we can pay him to show up for a week or two?



:laugh:

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 04:40 PM
The las thing Jake would do is help Denver....

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:13 PM
The last thing Jake would do is help Denver....

What reason would he want to?

The handwriting was on the wall the minute Jay was drafted..

Mikey did him no favors.

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 07:29 PM
Mikey did him no favors.

Yeah, those checks bounced, right?

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:34 PM
Yeah, those checks bounced, right?

mikey signed and resigned him at will, trying to get under the cap limit that he always played loose with...

Jake is not dummy, he allowed mikey to give him more up front each and every time he was asked. Just as you or I would do.

Now he is laughing all the way to the bank on mikey/pats money and sorry to tell you, that was all done before Jay came on board.. So it is moot IMO..

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 07:37 PM
mikey signed and resigned him at will, trying to get under the cap limit that he always played loose with...

Jake is not dummy, he allowed mikey to give him more up front each and every time he was asked. Just as you or I would do.

Now he is laughing all the way to the bank on mikey/pats money and sorry to tell you, that was all done before Jay came on board.. So it is moot IMO..

Well, the whole 'Good for Jake' camp is delusional. I guess they will say and do anything to protect Jake. Because he has the highest win percentage for a Bronco QB, right?

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:42 PM
Well, the whole 'Good for Jake' camp is delusional. I guess they will say and do anything to protect Jake. Because he has the highest win percentage for a Bronco QB, right?

We could have and did do much worse @ QB for many years..

I liked Jake for many reasons. Was he the best QB we have ever had, stats could support it. Did he have his flaws sure thing just like every QB that has been here including JOHN..

Lets leave it at that as I'm sure we will never ever agree with each other.

So we will have to agree to disagree.. capisce

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 07:44 PM
We could have and did do much worse @ QB for many years..

I liked Jake for many reasons. Was he the best QB we have ever had, stats could support it. Did he have his flaws sure thing just like every QB that has been here including JOHN..

Lets leave it at that as I'm sure we will never ever agree with each other.

So we will have to agree to disagree.. capisce

Bah. He wanted to compete on gamedays, but never put in the time to prepare for the games. Imagine if he had a work ethic.

Bronco9798
02-02-2008, 07:47 PM
Jake did a fine job in Denver. I personally liked him. Too many people blamed him for Shanny's poor call playing and playing away from his strengths his last season.

Shanny needed Jake to fail, he drafted a new toy.

Cutler is the man now. Jake is the past. Cutler jneeds to lead this team next year and make everybody forget about the Jake years. I'm glad Cutler is the QB now. I hated the pick at first but I've come around to like Cutler a lot.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:48 PM
Bah. He wanted to compete on gamedays, but never put in the time to prepare for the games. Imagine if he had a work ethic.


And you know this from what source?

Seems to me that I read he spent more time in the film room with Gary than with anyone. He did not turn the 2005 season around, spinning on his thumb..

tubby
02-02-2008, 07:54 PM
good for Jake

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 07:58 PM
And you know this from what source?

Seems to me that I read he spent more time in the film room with Gary than with anyone. He did not turn the 2005 season around, spinning on his thumb..

Shanahan has said this.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 08:08 PM
Shanahan has said this.

and you automatically beleive everything he has said?

Do I beleive that miey speaks with fored tongue absolutley..

Did Jake not spend as much time in teh film room as mikey wanted him to.. That is up for intrpetation..

I'd guess that if you had just had an all world season, your favorite coach leaves and they bring in a new QB. On top of the fact you have had retirement runnig through your mind..

Would you would crack the books until all hours with the new OC that was instrumental in bringing in the newbie?

If you say yes then I have some ocean front land for sale next door to me..

Mikey kicked him in the groin, after a great year. If he did not bust his ass I do not blame him.. Prior to that he did and it got his replacement drafted..


Hmmmm, Good motivation Mikey..

broncosfanscott
02-02-2008, 09:09 PM
Jake is retired and happy about it. We aren't getting that 4th round pick.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 09:13 PM
To not give Jake the credit he is obviously due is just stupid. He took us to the AFC Title game and tossed it for over 4,000 yards. 3 playoff appearances...unfortunately the D wasn't ready for Indy in 2 of em. he gave us all hope again after the Griese/Bubby times. Get off his back. Dude was very good in Denver.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 09:24 PM
To not give Jake the credit he is obviously due is just stupid. He took us to the AFC Title game and tossed it for over 4,000 yards. 3 playoff appearances...unfortunately the D wasn't ready for Indy in 2 of em. he gave us all hope again after the Griese/Bubby times. Get off his back. Dude was very good in Denver.

actually it was 4k in one season and to lose the PIT game was hardly all his fault there were plenty of other problems in that game, the BIGGEST IMO was a total lack of pass protection.. When the defender is waiting for the QB in the backfield at eh 5 or 7 Step area when he gets there something is wrong with the OLINE.. Something that is still wrong.. Hope it does not get Jay killed or retired early due to concussions..

omac
02-02-2008, 10:55 PM
http://extras.mnginteractive.com/live/media/site36/2007/1018/20071018__20071019_E1_SP19FBNPLUMMER~p1_200.JPG

tubby
02-02-2008, 10:58 PM
How can anyone not lilke Jake, really?

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 10:59 PM
To not give Jake the credit he is obviously due is just stupid. He took us to the AFC Title game and tossed it for over 4,000 yards. 3 playoff appearances...unfortunately the D wasn't ready for Indy in 2 of em. he gave us all hope again after the Griese/Bubby times. Get off his back. Dude was very good in Denver.

I am stupid. Jake was a turd.

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:00 PM
How can anyone not lilke Jake, really?

When is he going to file his retirement papers?

tubby
02-02-2008, 11:02 PM
When is he going to file his retirement papers?

Does it matter of he files or not?

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:06 PM
Does it matter of he files or not?

I think so. But not really to any of us.

Tned
02-02-2008, 11:06 PM
How can anyone not lilke Jake, really?

I guy that plays his heart out every game; thumbs his nose at the media; says, 'screw you' to idiot fans.

What's not to like.

Jay is great, but Jake was unique.

By the way, while I think it is VERY unlikely he comes back to the NFL, don't you think it is likely that the conversation with TB would go something like, "Jake, we really want you back, but we don't want to put pressure on you. Enjoy your time off, we have time. Let's target the mid-summer OTA as being far enough out for you to enjoy your time off, and close enough to the season to be ready for opening day.' Translated as 7th round pick.

tubby
02-02-2008, 11:15 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/FU.jpg

Broncospsycho77
02-02-2008, 11:16 PM
So is there a Jake sighting or not?

slim
02-02-2008, 11:17 PM
Jake was a good (not great) player for us. I like Jake and wish him the best.

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:18 PM
http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q224/jribbens02/FU.jpg

What a leader.

slim
02-02-2008, 11:20 PM
What a leader.

C'mon beef, you would have been flying the bird too.

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:21 PM
C'mon beef, you would have been flying the bird too.

Nah...once you acknowledge the idiots, it is proof they are in your head. See: Philip Rivers.

tubby
02-02-2008, 11:21 PM
What a leader.

More of a Gunslinger.

slim
02-02-2008, 11:22 PM
Nah...once you acknowledge the idiots, it is proof they are in your head. See: Philip Rivers.

Well, I have been known to fly the bird on the mean streets of Phoenix...almost daily :D

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:27 PM
Well, I have been known to fly the bird on the mean streets of Phoenix...almost daily :D

You are a fatass...that is to be expected.

pnbronco
02-02-2008, 11:29 PM
C'mon beef, you would have been flying the bird too.

Slim this is scary I totally agree. Also Jake had total work ethics. I'm not sure about the last months but he only took about 3 weeks off when the season was over and would start in working with any receivers that wanted to. The reason I know this is that I would go down to Dove in the off season and talk to people that worked down there. So I wish Jake well, he's done with football so I'm not counting on the higher pick. Also Cutler has really grown on me and I look forward to watching his development.

Broncospsycho77
02-02-2008, 11:30 PM
You are a fatass...that is to be expected.

I always thought fat guys were the jolly ones? :confused:

slim
02-02-2008, 11:32 PM
Slim this is scary I totally agree. Also Jake had total work ethics. I'm not sure about the last months but he only took about 3 weeks off when the season was over and would start in working with any receivers that wanted to. The reason I know this is that I would go down to Dove in the off season and talk to people that worked down there. So I wish Jake well, he's done with football so I'm not counting on the higher pick. Also Cutler has really grown on me and I look forward to watching his development.

Yeah, I am a big fan of Jake. I have been a fan of his since ASU (my alma mater). He gave everything he had on the football field. How can you not respect that?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 11:38 PM
Dude took the Arizona frickn Cardinals to the playoffs...nuff said.

BeefStew25
02-02-2008, 11:40 PM
Dude took the Arizona frickn Cardinals to the playoffs...nuff said.

Trent Dilfer won the Ravens a Super Bowl. Sounds gay, doesn't it?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 11:48 PM
Trent Dilfer won the Ravens a Super Bowl. Sounds gay, doesn't it?

not as gay as my new sig. Thanx douche bag

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 01:33 AM
Does it matter of he files or not?

I think the only reasons he has to file is to collect pension checks, or to have his five years before he is considered for the HOF..

I suspect he does not give a crap about either..

He once said he never imagined playing in the NFL let alone 10-11 years.

If he is happy who cares what he does.. Except the haters to them he could never do anything right, he does not owe the broncos or you anything.

WARHORSE
02-03-2008, 01:43 AM
Lets set the record straight.

Shanahans coaching brought Jake to an entirely new level. Unfortunately, we didnt know that Jake would crumble under the pressure of knowing the scrutiny of a billion Elway fans was on him daily. It only became evident when we started having success.

Now, at this point, lets give Jake the credit he is due, cause he performed better than he ever had prior to coming into Denver, and thats because he had that ability to do so in the first place. Its just Kubes and Shanny brought it all out.

The other thing that got exposed was if Jake wasnt happy.........HE SUCKED. When he was frustrated, he was bangin the finger at people on the sidelines, bangin people on the highway, bangin cheerleaders at the altar, and bangin his head against the wall cause he couldnt throw the ball far enough downfield.

In his last year here, Jake was atrocious, and no one supported Jake more than myself prior to the last season. What happened?

He folded.

He crumbled under the scrutiny once the strong armed kid came into town. His quarterback play the last few games he played was pop warner at best. He needed to come out, and some people react well to being canned and benched........some people get up and fight harder........some people get invigorated to prove detractors wrong........some people produce 98 yard drives when the chips are down.


Jake Plummer, was not one of them.:salute:

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 01:45 AM
I am stupid. .

now that you mention it

WARHORSE
02-03-2008, 01:47 AM
But could you please show up to Tampa Bay Jake, for old times sake?????:D




Please?
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/warhorse001/voodoo-1.gif

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 01:57 AM
Lets set the record straight.

Shanahans coaching brought Jake to an entirely new level. Unfortunately, we didnt know that Jake would crumble under the pressure of knowing the scrutiny of a billion Elway fans was on him daily. It only became evident when we started having success.

Now, at this point, lets give Jake the credit he is due, cause he performed better than he ever had prior to coming into Denver, and thats because he had that ability to do so in the first place. Its just Kubes and Shanny brought it all out.

The other thing that got exposed was if Jake wasnt happy.........HE SUCKED. When he was frustrated, he was bangin the finger at people on the sidelines, bangin people on the highway, bangin cheerleaders at the altar, and bangin his head against the wall cause he couldnt throw the ball far enough downfield.

In his last year here, Jake was atrocious, and no one supported Jake more than myself prior to the last season. What happened?

He folded.

He crumbled under the scrutiny once the strong armed kid came into town. His quarterback play the last few games he played was pop warner at best. He needed to come out, and some people react well to being canned and benched........some people get up and fight harder........some people get invigorated to prove detractors wrong........some people produce 98 yard drives when the chips are down.


Jake Plummer, was not one of them.:salute:

First name me a competitor that has never flipped someone off. It was not the opposing team but the opposing fan or fans behind him. Show me someone that has never done that I show you a saint or priest. Since the traffic thingy never went to court (to my knowledge) we only have an individuals word on what happened.. Again show me some one that has not cut someone off in traffic I'll show you someone that drives on lonely country roads..

Lastly I think that Jake lost his best coach on the team in Gary, had another one brought in that clearly had a horse in the race and his horses name did not end with an E. Jake in not stupid and knew the hand writing was on the wall and I think the minute Jay was drafted he started thinking about retirement.

I do not think he folded, cause he was ready to leave.. Maybe I'm wrong here, but betrayal does that to you..

Requiem / The Dagda
02-03-2008, 02:38 AM
Jake Plummer was not betrayed. These delusions have been going on for several years now, it's time they end.

WARHORSE
02-03-2008, 04:06 AM
First name me a competitor that has never flipped someone off. It was not the opposing team but the opposing fan or fans behind him. Show me someone that has never done that I show you a saint or priest. Since the traffic thingy never went to court (to my knowledge) we only have an individuals word on what happened.. Again show me some one that has not cut someone off in traffic I'll show you someone that drives on lonely country roads..

Lastly I think that Jake lost his best coach on the team in Gary, had another one brought in that clearly had a horse in the race and his horses name did not end with an E. Jake in not stupid and knew the hand writing was on the wall and I think the minute Jay was drafted he started thinking about retirement.

I do not think he folded, cause he was ready to leave.. Maybe I'm wrong here, but betrayal does that to you..

It has nothing to do with whether someone has flipped someone else off or not. It has to do with that is a rookie move. And it means that hes got voices in his head that hes letting affect him. At his age, and experience in the NFL, thats a sign of immaturity. So lets not look at it like its nothing. You dont see the great ones doing that 10 yrs into their career. Theyve grown beyond that.

Lastly, why in the world would Jake let the drafting of a young QB get into his head? All it did was further the notion that he couldnt handle the pressure of being in the limelight in Denver.

He did the right thing.

Retired.

Cause anyone who lets others determine their play when they arent even on the field are done anyway.


Betrayed?

PULEEZE.

Dean
02-03-2008, 12:46 PM
Jake had three very good years for the Broncos. His passing accuracy was okay but not great. His mobility and being able to throw on the run was exceptional. When the game went well he gave the credit to his team mates. When it went poorly he shouldered the blame. I keep hearing about the AFCCG. Rewatch the tapes. There was no segment of offense, defense, or special teams that doesn't share in that loss. Yet, people tend to look no further than the QB.

His last year an early first round pick at QB was brought in. A new passing offense was established favoring pocket passing. Jake always started the first few games of the season poorly but would play better later in the season. He found that the roll out and bootleg passes that were his staple for three years were seldom called. Dropback passes with a zone blocking line were the play calls. The new QB was showing in practice that he was a better pocket QB. That year Jake was not dramatically improving as the season progressed. Jake folded. The heir apparent came in and while not setting the world on fire established that Jake was in the Broncos rear view mirror. He told players before the season ended that he was finished and he is.

What I can't understand is why people can't give him credit for his contribution over the first three years. For better or worse, he is not in the Broncos' future. Let him go. He has moved on with his life as he has every right ot do. Why won't we as fans move on with ours?

fcspikeit
02-03-2008, 01:46 PM
Jake had three very good years for the Broncos. His passing accuracy was okay but not great. His mobility and being able to throw on the run was exceptional. When the game went well he gave the credit to his team mates. When it went poorly he shouldered the blame. I keep hearing about the AFCCG. Rewatch the tapes. There was no segment of offense, defense, or special teams that doesn't share in that loss. Yet, people tend to look no further than the QB.

His last year an early first round pick at QB was brought in. A new passing offense was established favoring pocket passing. Jake always started the first few games of the season poorly but would play better later in the season. He found that the roll out and bootleg passes that were his staple for three years were seldom called. Dropback passes with a zone blocking line were the play calls. The new QB was showing in practice that he was a better pocket QB. That year Jake was not dramatically improving as the season progressed. Jake folded. The heir apparent came in and while not setting the world on fire established that Jake was in the Broncos rear view mirror. He told players before the season ended that he was finished and he is.

What I can't understand is why people can't give him credit for his contribution over the first three years. For better or worse, he is not in the Broncos' future. Let him go. He has moved on with his life as he has every right ot do. Why won't we as fans move on with ours?

Dean,,

Who isn't giving him credit for the 3 good years he had? There is more bashing of the members who didn't like plummer then there is of Plummer in this thread.

Why is it such a bad thing for people to want Plummer to report so we get the 4th pick? Every time someone brings it up people start coming down on them as Plummer haters.

I would rather have the 4th over the 7th. If Plummer shows up after a year off to confirm to himself he is done with football. That is good for us.

I doubt he will but I would be glad if he did. That don't make me a Plummer hatter. Its like some of these people hate the Broncos and don't want Plummer to show up so Denver gets stuck with the 7th.

fcspikeit
02-03-2008, 01:56 PM
he does not owe the broncos or you anything.

So contracts mean nothing? He owes someone 2 years. It may not be the Broncos but don't kid yourself the Bucs traded a pick for him, they feel he owes them the remainder of his contract.

If he wasn't responsible for the remainder of his contract there is no way the Bucs could go after him for not reporting.

When Plummer doesn't show up, the Bucs will go after him for the 7 million. Which he got with the assumption he would play out his contract. Will you admit he owes someone something? If not then, when the Bucs win the judgment and the NFL says he owes the Bucs money because he didn't fulfill his responsibility, will you admit he owed someone something?

pnbronco
02-03-2008, 02:16 PM
Dean,,

Who isn't giving him credit for the 3 good years he had? There is more bashing of the members who didn't like plummer then there is of Plummer in this thread.

Why is it such a bad thing for people to want Plummer to report so we get the 4th pick? Every time someone brings it up people start coming down on them as Plummer haters.

I would rather have the 4th over the 7th. If Plummer shows up after a year off to confirm to himself he is done with football. That is good for us.

I doubt he will but I would be glad if he did. That don't make me a Plummer hatter. Its like some of these people hate the Broncos and don't want Plummer to show up so Denver gets stuck with the 7th.

For myself, of course I would like to have the 4th over the 7th, I am a Bronco fan first. The problem is that during Jakes last year everything that went wrong with the Broncos was blamed on Jake and the press went after him like a bunch of jackels. The Jake war got really bad and those of us that liked Jake were treated like fools. I could see the talent that Cutler had, but because he was so new there was no way he could go in and get us to the Super Bowl that year. The thing that really upset me was that Jake was told by a reporter on his way on to the field of the Dallas game that he was going to be benched. So for that reason, I think when he quite he quite and does not owe the organization anything. If he could of gone to Texas and be with Kub then I think he would have stayed in, but he didn't have the chance so he called it quites. Jake has moved on, the team has moved on and I have moved on, but the old habit of defending our positions dies hard.

Tned
02-03-2008, 02:38 PM
Jake had three very good years for the Broncos. His passing accuracy was okay but not great. His mobility and being able to throw on the run was exceptional. When the game went well he gave the credit to his team mates. When it went poorly he shouldered the blame. I keep hearing about the AFCCG. Rewatch the tapes. There was no segment of offense, defense, or special teams that doesn't share in that loss. Yet, people tend to look no further than the QB.

His last year an early first round pick at QB was brought in. A new passing offense was established favoring pocket passing. Jake always started the first few games of the season poorly but would play better later in the season. He found that the roll out and bootleg passes that were his staple for three years were seldom called. Dropback passes with a zone blocking line were the play calls. The new QB was showing in practice that he was a better pocket QB. That year Jake was not dramatically improving as the season progressed. Jake folded. The heir apparent came in and while not setting the world on fire established that Jake was in the Broncos rear view mirror. He told players before the season ended that he was finished and he is.

What I can't understand is why people can't give him credit for his contribution over the first three years. For better or worse, he is not in the Broncos' future. Let him go. He has moved on with his life as he has every right ot do. Why won't we as fans move on with ours?

Why this isn't the most high fived post in this thread, I cannot fathom.

Excellent post.

Stargazer
02-03-2008, 03:10 PM
Man, don't some of you get tired of complaining or supporting Jake?

I hope Jake reports and Denver gets a 4th. If he doesn't, Denver receives Tampa Bay's 7th.

Bronco9798
02-03-2008, 03:17 PM
Man, don't some of you get tired of complaining or supporting Jake?

I hope Jake reports and Denver gets a 4th. If he doesn't, Denver receives Tampa Bay's 7th.

It's a Broncos forum, Jake was a Bronco, it's the off-season, and this is a discussion board. Why not.

MileHighWrath
02-03-2008, 04:11 PM
After this off season, when there is no other way he can effect the Broncos, can we stop talking about Jake the Fake please? I'm so done.

Stargazer
02-03-2008, 05:24 PM
It's a Broncos forum, Jake was a Bronco, it's the off-season, and this is a discussion board..

Oh definately, I'm just surprised people still care to yack over it over and over and over.

Like I said, I hope Jake reports. The 4th round pick can really help this team.

Npba900
02-03-2008, 05:43 PM
Jake was a suitable QB while starting in Denver. The fact is, Jake had limited abilities and was not a QB who could make "All The Throws" and his field vision narrowed significantly if forced to pass in the pocket.

One glaring weakness I saw in Jakes game was the habit of "Locking" on to his WR's, his inability to check down to his 2nd and 3rd WR respectively, and he did not make his reads at the level of a 10 year veteran. I'd even go as far to say that Jakes
inconsistent performances as a 10 year NFL veteran maybe the result of Jake suffering with ADHD! This may explain how easy it was to rattle Jake, his confrontational incidences with the fans. Who knows! I think Jake should have privately gotten checked to see if he was suffering from ADHD! There's a baseball player with the Cardinals that was diagnosed with ADHD and prescribed medications, and this player is now an ALL-STAR! Prior to his diagnoses, his inconsistent play and lethargic decision making almost derailed his career.

The AFC Title Game against the Steelers, was a watershed turning point on Jakes future with the Broncos. During that game, Shanahan saw and came to the conclusion that Jake had taken the Broncos as far as he was going to take this franchise. Jake was not then and is not now a Super Bowl caliber QB!!!! Myself, like thousands of other bronco fans all saw on numerous occasions of the utter frustration on Shanny's face and his body language when plays and series ended on 3rd down.

We also, all recalled the frustrated exchanges Shanny and Jake had once Jake made it over to the sidelines. Because neither were "miked up" no one knows what was said! But you can best believe that on numerous occasions; Shanny asked Jake....."Why Didn't You Check Down" to your 2nd and 3rd receiver?"

I would suspect, that Jake made good decisions, checked down to his 2nd and 3rd receiving options, and made passes in the pocket....."ONLY DURING PRACTICE!" However, Jake was inconsistent during the season and in the playoffs.

Also, ya gotta question Jakes decision making....who can forget the time inside the 5, when Jake attempted to complete a pass "Left Handed", and the pass was intercepted. Jake did this, during his 6th or 7th year in the "League"!. This bone headed play is usually done by rookies or 2nd year QB's.

You also add in Jakes off-the field decisions and run in's he had with the fans and the public at large, all which you would have expected from a rookie or 2nd year player and you can sum it all up.....that Jake was an immature high priced millionaire NFL QB, who had yet to grow up and was unable to handle adversity both on and off the field.

Sure the Defense and Special teams could and should have played better in the AFC title game. The facts remain, the QB is the glamor position in the NFL....the QB either gets too much of the credit or too much of the blame.

fcspikeit
02-03-2008, 05:46 PM
For myself, of course I would like to have the 4th over the 7th, I am a Bronco fan first. The problem is that during Jakes last year everything that went wrong with the Broncos was blamed on Jake and the press went after him like a bunch of jackels. The Jake war got really bad and those of us that liked Jake were treated like fools. I could see the talent that Cutler had, but because he was so new there was no way he could go in and get us to the Super Bowl that year. The thing that really upset me was that Jake was told by a reporter on his way on to the field of the Dallas game that he was going to be benched. So for that reason, I think when he quite he quite and does not owe the organization anything. If he could of gone to Texas and be with Kub then I think he would have stayed in, but he didn't have the chance so he called it quites. Jake has moved on, the team has moved on and I have moved on, but the old habit of defending our positions dies hard.


Defending him from what? Those who want him to report so we get the 4th round pick?

I haven't seen anyone in this thread, say plummer sucked or was to blame for all our troubles. The thread is titled, "Show up Jake". That in no way is a put down to Plummer, so why is everyone up in arms?

fcspikeit
02-03-2008, 05:55 PM
Why this isn't the most high fived post in this thread, I cannot fathom.

Excellent post.

Well.. For one it's off topic... Two is it just opens the door for all those who believe Plummer was a lousy QB to bring their argument to the table and further lead the thread off topic..

Whether someone believes Plummer was a good QB or not has nothing to do with Broncos fans wanting him to report so we get the better pick..

Bronco9798
02-03-2008, 06:02 PM
Why this isn't the most high fived post in this thread, I cannot fathom.

Excellent post.

Please stay on topic or I'm reporting you Tred...TIA.......:D

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:30 PM
So contracts mean nothing? He owes someone 2 years. It may not be the Broncos but don't kid yourself the Bucs traded a pick for him, they feel he owes them the remainder of his contract.

If he wasn't responsible for the remainder of his contract there is no way the Bucs could go after him for not reporting.

When Plummer doesn't show up, the Bucs will go after him for the 7 million. Which he got with the assumption he would play out his contract. Will you admit he owes someone something? If not then, when the Bucs win the judgment and the NFL says he owes the Bucs money because he didn't fulfill his responsibility, will you admit he owed someone something?

He does not owe the broncos anything he gave at the office and that was not enough for mikey, mikey tried to make him feel wanted by changing the offense to something that Jake does not do, never did do well, pocket pass.. It was the final slap in his face. On top of that tried to make the OLINE into something the can't do either pocket pass protect.

Does Jake owe TPA something? I guess that is for the courts to figure out.. IN the mean time I wish Jake well. He no longer dances to mikeys strings..

BTW it is not you that most of us have went after it was the few haters that had nothing positive to say.

BeefStew25
02-03-2008, 11:36 PM
BTW it is not you that most of us have went after it was the few haters that had nothing positive to say.

Jake donates money to charity and makes sure we all know it. There, was that postive?

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:42 PM
Jake donates money to charity and makes sure we all know it. There, was that postive?

Are you sure that he was making sure he did it or because he was a bronco the media thought it note worthy. Kinda the same thing everyone having to report on what kind of candy did Elway give out on Halloween..

If Jake was a publicity seeker he would have dress to kill, driven something gawder than a cheap Honda element.

IMO Jake did not give a rats ass about public opinion, just wanted to play and have fun doing it.

But you can believe what you wish to..

BeefStew25
02-03-2008, 11:48 PM
Are you sure that he was making sure he did it or because he was a bronco the media thought it note worthy. Kinda the same thing everyone having to report on what kind of candy did Elway give out on Halloween..

If Jake was a publicity seeker he would have dress to kill, driven something gawder than a cheap Honda element.

IMO Jake did not give a rats ass about public opinion, just wanted to play and have fun doing it.

But you can believe what you wish to..

Same to you. He made sure we all knew he was dropping off a check when he rear ended the dude in his ghey car. Maybe it got him some leeway.

Funny how the focus was rarely on football.

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:55 PM
Same to you. He made sure we all knew he was dropping off a check when he rear ended the dude in his ghey car. Maybe it got him some leeway.

Funny how the focus was rarely on football.


So he was the one that brought it up or was it someone else..

And unless I read the news report wrong it was the other guys front end taht struck Jakes rear end, I think your wrong on whom hit who.

Except on Sundays or other game days, when there were fewer more competitive guys on the field..

BeefStew25
02-03-2008, 11:57 PM
Except on Sundays or other game days, when there were fewer more competitive guys on the field..

That was the problem. Jake needed to try during the week.

Rick
02-03-2008, 11:58 PM
Jake Plummer was a few things.

A dominating QB, no he was never that.

But the guy was a warrior, he played every play in the way he thought would make a play. He wanted to make plays so bad that he just did some dumb ass things, but he still played his heart out. And he got us wins.

He had an attitude that I very much respect in the way that he says kiss my tail, if you don't like me then bug off. Flipping off someone? Who cares, if someone ridicules me, whether I deserve it or not I would flip him off too.

He wants to be done, he is done. I can admire someone that stands by their convictions enough to say he is not coming back on anyones terms but his. That can simply walk into another life and tell the world to blow off.

I believe that Cutler is a much better QB than Jake but I still very much respect Jake.

Jake owe us? No.

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:59 PM
That was the problem. Jake needed to try during the week.



If you say so, I had heard no complaints form the rest of the team.. Nor from the coaching staff while Gary K was in town..

I guess we will have to agree to disagree.

Now you can have the last word..

BeefStew25
02-04-2008, 12:01 AM
Now you can have the last word..

Javon Walker is a boner.

fcspikeit
02-04-2008, 12:05 AM
He does not owe the broncos anything he gave at the office and that was not enough for mikey, mikey tried to make him feel wanted by changing the offense to something that Jake does not do, never did do well, pocket pass.. It was the final slap in his face. On top of that tried to make the OLINE into something the can't do either pocket pass protect.

Does Jake owe TPA something? I guess that is for the courts to figure out.. IN the mean time I wish Jake well. He no longer dances to mikeys strings..

BTW it is not you that most of us have went after it was the few haters that had nothing positive to say.

Either the players you have will work in the system or you get players that will. I don't blame Shanahan for wanting a pocket QB. But he should get an O-line that will hold up in pass protection.

A lot of people make it sound like Plummer got screwed by the Broncos. Even you admit, Plummer could not do what was asked of him. Shanahan gave him the opportunity to see if he could be a pocket passer. He could not... What was Shanahan to do?

If we were limited on offense because of Plummer, then we should get someone that better suits the system. That's what Shanahan did. At least he gave plummer the chance to see if he could change to fit the system. How was that a slap in the face of Plummer?

Just like this year, he gave our lineman the chance to see if they could pocket pass protect. Those who cannot need to be replaced with someone who can. Either that or we had better go back to the miss direction. You can't squeeze oranges and expect to get apple juice.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 12:05 AM
Javon Walker is a boner.

He is not an ASSet IMO

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 12:17 AM
Either the players you have will work in the system or you get players that will. I don't blame Shanahan for wanting a pocket QB. But he should get an O-line that will hold up in pass protection.

A lot of people make it sound like Plummer got screwed by the Broncos. Even you admit, Plummer could not do what was asked of him. Shanahan gave him the opportunity to see if he could be a pocket passer. He could not... What was Shanahan to do?

If we were limited on offense because of Plummer, then we should get someone that better suits the system. That's what Shanahan did. At least he gave plummer the chance to see if he could change to fit the system. How was that a slap in the face of Plummer?

Just like this year, he gave our lineman the chance to see if they could pocket pass protect. Those who cannot need to be replaced with someone who can. Either that or we had better go back to the miss direction. You can't squeeze oranges and expect to get apple juice.



Let me try one more time and then I'm done..

Jake took them to a 13-3 season having the best year of his career the year before that he broke bronco records for passing yards and a few other of Johns records..

What dose mikey do? He slaps Jake in the face by replacing Gary his best friend on the team with the OC/assistant HC Dinger that IMO talked mikey into getting Jay. Would Mikey have drafted him without detailed knowledge of him with ZERO contact from the team pre draft?

I do not think so, Dinger was the prime mover in that move and when they changed the offense to something Jake was never good at it was, AGAIN IMO just going through the motions having Jake play until Jay was ready.

Did Jake have a banner year absolutely not, NO one has ever said that, yet it was one surprise to anyone on the team when Jake announced he was done.. Even they knew what happened to Jake IMO he got jobbed. fortunately he got his money up front and did not have play any longer..

Jake is happy, let sleeping dogs lie. Jay is not the king in DEN till he is unable to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE. Or he is consumed by the media/press and unrealistic fans in DEN.

How many of them expected this past year to be a Superbowl run?

Bronco9798
02-04-2008, 12:18 AM
Shanahan needed Jake to fail. That was so obvious.

tubby
02-04-2008, 12:25 AM
Shanahan needed Jake to fail. That was so obvious.

That's the biggest bunch of bullshit ever.

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 12:52 AM
Let me try one more time and then I'm done..

Jake took them to a 13-3 season having the best year of his career the year before that he broke bronco records for passing yards and a few other of Johns records..

What dose mikey do? He slaps Jake in the face by replacing Gary his best friend on the team with the OC/assistant HC Dinger that IMO talked mikey into getting Jay. Would Mikey have drafted him without detailed knowledge of him with ZERO contact from the team pre draft?

I do not think so, Dinger was the prime mover in that move and when they changed the offense to something Jake was never good at it was, AGAIN IMO just going through the motions having Jake play until Jay was ready.

Did Jake have a banner year absolutely not, NO one has ever said that, yet it was one surprise to anyone on the team when Jake announced he was done.. Even they knew what happened to Jake IMO he got jobbed. fortunately he got his money up front and did not have play any longer..

Jake is happy, let sleeping dogs lie. Jay is not the king in DEN till he is unable to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE. Or he is consumed by the media/press and unrealistic fans in DEN.

How many of them expected this past year to be a Superbowl run?


Im sorry dude, but youre stretching your opininon into Jake getting jobbed and robbed by the Broncos.

First of all, no one changed the offense. If you want to know why Jake was forced to play from the pocket it was because everyone in the league knew that he was NOT a pocket passer of magnitude, and that he did his damage rolling out. When teams take that away from you, you have to be able to throw from the pocket. (See Vince Young, Michael Vick) Shanny didnt change the play calling to more pocket passing just for the hell of it, thats about as dumb a thing as Ive ever heard. Dinger also did not just decide to go to a pocket passing game. We had to pass from the pocket because teams were keeping the DEs in containment to make Jake beat us from the pocket, something they knew he was not good at.

Its called the NFL. This is not college football. You dont just call rollouts for the hell of it, when the defense is telling you you arent going to beat them at that game.

Unlike John Elway, Jake could not do it from the pocket.

PERIOD.

Yes Jake did alot of good things here, and we're all proud of the man, but lets speak truthfully about what he could NOT do. He was not a pocket passer, and couldnt be molded into one, even by the great Shanahan/Kubes combination.

Also, how did you figure that Shanny replaced Kubes with Dinger? Last I checked, Kubes got a head coaching job with the Texans. Shanny didnt slap anyone, and he did what was the BEST thing for the team in taking a franchise QB in the draft. If Jake thinks that was a slap in the face, then he did the right thing in retiring.

Banner year from Jake??? Lets call it what it was: PITIFUL.

Jake Plummer SUCKED his last season. He played like a high schooler, continually putting the Broncos in bad situations with his terrible decision making. Instead of rising to the occasion, Jake the fake folded.

He FOLDED.

I like Jake. Always have. And I like him sticking to his own rules of living. But Im not gonna make excuses for him when he shows time and again that he was not going to help our team, and that he was hurting us. When Jake went out, the offense jumped to life.

Cutler did better not because he was better necessarily at that moment, but because Jake was not executing the offense.

As for our terrible pass protecting line, Jay is doing very well in it wouldnt you say? For a rookie starter, he had a stellar year.

He will only get better.

Jake?:tsk:

What some people around here dont understand, is that Grudens offense is taylor made for Jake Plummer. He could have some very good years there if he chose to do so.

Guess the fire is gone.

IMO?

The fire left Jake the moment Jay Cutlers name was called on draft day.

Some rise to the occasion.

Some fold.

As much as I like Jake the dude,,,,,,,,he folded.:coffee:

fcspikeit
02-04-2008, 01:25 AM
Let me try one more time and then I'm done..

Jake took them to a 13-3 season having the best year of his career the year before that he broke bronco records for passing yards and a few other of Johns records..

What dose mikey do? He slaps Jake in the face by replacing Gary his best friend on the team with the OC/assistant HC Dinger that IMO talked mikey into getting Jay. Would Mikey have drafted him without detailed knowledge of him with ZERO contact from the team pre draft?

I do not think so, Dinger was the prime mover in that move and when they changed the offense to something Jake was never good at it was, AGAIN IMO just going through the motions having Jake play until Jay was ready.

Did Jake have a banner year absolutely not, NO one has ever said that, yet it was one surprise to anyone on the team when Jake announced he was done.. Even they knew what happened to Jake IMO he got jobbed. fortunately he got his money up front and did not have play any longer..

Jake is happy, let sleeping dogs lie. Jay is not the king in DEN till he is unable to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE. Or he is consumed by the media/press and unrealistic fans in DEN.

How many of them expected this past year to be a Superbowl run?

You make it sound like Shanahan fired Kubiak just to spite Plummer. Kubiak left! We got another OC, the new guy had some different ideas. What does that change? Nothing! Either Plummer fit the offense or he didn't. Some of the players said they were not surprised that Plummer called it quits. Some even said he had talked about it before the 13 - 3 season. Maybe that's one of the reasons Shanahan drafted a QB? Maybe he knew Plummers heart wasn't in the game anymore. Its all speculation. The bottom line is, Shanahan wanted to changed the offensive Philosophy, Plummer didn't fit the new philosophy. Shanahan drafted a QB that was a better fit. He gave Plummer the chance to earn his starting job. plummer did not so Plummer was benched. Its pretty simple.

It was a good thing Shanahan drafted Cutler suspecting Plummer couldn't succeed in the new scheme. If he hadn't where would we be now? Looking to draft a QB in this draft? Hats off to Shanahan for looking to the future and knowing the limitations of Plummer.

I'm not sure what your saying here?

"yet it was one surprise to anyone on the team when Jake announced he was done.." Did you mean no surprise?

&

"Jay is not the king in DEN till he is unable to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE. Or he is consumed by the media/press and unrealistic fans in DEN"

Cutler will be the King when he is "unable" to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE? Did you mean, when he is able to survive?

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 01:32 AM
Im sorry dude, but youre stretching your opininon into Jake getting jobbed and robbed by the Broncos.

First of all, no one changed the offense. If you want to know why Jake was forced to play from the pocket it was because everyone in the league knew that he was NOT a pocket passer of magnitude, and that he did his damage rolling out. When teams take that away from you, you have to be able to throw from the pocket. (See Vince Young, Michael Vick) Shanny didnt change the play calling to more pocket passing just for the hell of it, thats about as dumb a thing as Ive ever heard. Dinger also did not just decide to go to a pocket passing game. We had to pass from the pocket because teams were keeping the DEs in containment to make Jake beat us from the pocket, something they knew he was not good at.

Its called the NFL. This is not college football. You dont just call rollouts for the hell of it, when the defense is telling you you arent going to beat them at that game.

Unlike John Elway, Jake could not do it from the pocket.

PERIOD.

Yes Jake did alot of good things here, and we're all proud of the man, but lets speak truthfully about what he could NOT do. He was not a pocket passer, and couldnt be molded into one, even by the great Shanahan/Kubes combination.

Also, how did you figure that Shanny replaced Kubes with Dinger? Last I checked, Kubes got a head coaching job with the Texans. Shanny didnt slap anyone, and he did what was the BEST thing for the team in taking a franchise QB in the draft. If Jake thinks that was a slap in the face, then he did the right thing in retiring.

Banner year from Jake??? Lets call it what it was: PITIFUL.

Jake Plummer SUCKED his last season. He played like a high schooler, continually putting the Broncos in bad situations with his terrible decision making. Instead of rising to the occasion, Jake the fake folded.

He FOLDED.

I like Jake. Always have. And I like him sticking to his own rules of living. But Im not gonna make excuses for him when he shows time and again that he was not going to help our team, and that he was hurting us. When Jake went out, the offense jumped to life.

Cutler did better not because he was better necessarily at that moment, but because Jake was not executing the offense.

As for our terrible pass protecting line, Jay is doing very well in it wouldnt you say? For a rookie starter, he had a stellar year.

He will only get better.

Jake?:tsk:

What some people around here dont understand, is that Grudens offense is taylor made for Jake Plummer. He could have some very good years there if he chose to do so.

Guess the fire is gone.

IMO?

The fire left Jake the moment Jay Cutlers name was called on draft day.

Some rise to the occasion.

Some fold.

As much as I like Jake the dude,,,,,,,,he folded.:coffee:

Whether mikey changed the offense because he had to or to accommodate to future you and I will never know for sure..

Jake should have never IMO been forced into doing something everyone in the NFL or in football college or pro knew he could not do especially behind a OLINE that is not designed to pocket pass protect..

IMO Jay did not do any better later in the year than IMO Jake could have done..

Jay had his buddy Scheffler back on the field who finally figured out the playbook and how to run more than the basic routes they had in preseason..

Having him back in the lineup gave Jay something that Jake did not have for the first time in his DEN career a go to TE on third down..

If it was indeed mikeys idea to wait until Jake failed in a new style, because he screwed the pooch with greasy 6-7 years before and had a players revolt on his hands then. He should have bit the bullet and started Jay day one and allowed him to get the extra 10-11 games experience..

Regardless of what you or anyone else has to say IMO Jake got jobbed. It started on draft day as you said that is clear to me now. Mikey was going through the motions hoping to win enough games to have fans support and Jake not playing all that well in a system he was doomed to fail in. biding his time to give Jay time enough to learn the complete play book and fans/players to get used to the change..

again I wish Jake well and am assured he is in a better place today than he was two years ago..

now this is my last post here so have a ball.. I'm tired and going to bed..

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 01:41 AM
You make it sound like Shanahan fired Kubiak just to spite Plummer. Kubiak left! We got another OC, the new guy had some different ideas. What does that change? Nothing! Either Plummer fit the offense or he didn't. Some of the players said they were not surprised that Plummer called it quits. Some even said he had talked about it before the 13 - 3 season. Maybe that's one of the reasons Shanahan drafted a QB? Maybe he knew Plummers heart wasn't in the game anymore. Its all speculation. The bottom line is, Shanahan wanted to changed the offensive Philosophy, Plummer didn't fit the new philosophy. Shanahan drafted a QB that was a better fit. He gave Plummer the chance to earn his starting job. plummer did not so Plummer was benched. Its pretty simple.

It was a good thing Shanahan drafted Cutler suspecting Plummer couldn't succeed in the new scheme. If he hadn't where would we be now? Looking to draft a QB in this draft? Hats off to Shanahan for looking to the future and knowing the limitations of Plummer.

I'm not sure what your saying here?

"yet it was one surprise to anyone on the team when Jake announced he was done.." Did you mean no surprise?

&

"Jay is not the king in DEN till he is unable to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE. Or he is consumed by the media/press and unrealistic fans in DEN"

Cutler will be the King when he is "unable" to survive behind a truly bad pass protecting OLINE? Did you mean, when he is able to survive?


OK slowly this time..

Dinger was brought in when Gary left.. can we agree on this?

also Gary and Jake were tight.. Dinger and Jake had no close relationship

Dinger was a proponent of Jay thus had little desire to see Jake succeed.

Jake was ill fitted for the system mikey wanted to put into DEN especially with the small OLINE designed for ZBS

Jay is most likely to get killed behind the small existing ZBS OLINE. no fault of Jays, but mikeys..

Denver's fans and media are unrealistic in their expectations for the QB's in DEN expecting everyone to be as good or better than JOHN.

That make it clear enough.. going to bed.. unless I have to mod anyomre threads..

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 02:48 AM
OK slowly this time..

Dinger was brought in when Gary left.. can we agree on this?

Thats not what you originally said.......therefore, the whole speculation on your part about Mike replacing Jakes 'best friend' in Kubes for Dinger was hogwash.

also Gary and Jake were tight.. Dinger and Jake had no close relationship

This is the NFL. Close relationships dont preclude winning. What were the Broncos to do, look for someone to be 'close' to Jake? Hold his hand? Hold him gently and rock him if he had a bad game? Please stop.

Dinger was a proponent of Jay thus had little desire to see Jake succeed.

How about the fact that Dinger was a member of the Denver Broncos coaching staff when we won the superbowl, then turned Steve McNair into the best QB hes ever been as a passer for the Titans, who then went to be the headcoach of the Jets, got fired. So this man, who knows Shannys offense, is asked by Shanahan, who just lost Kubes to the Texans, to come and run his offense here. Are you REALLY insinuating that Dinger wanted Jake to FAIL????? Are you kidding me? Jake failing reflects on HIM. It detracts from his ability to be seen as a good coach. Only a fool would want someone to fail, in order to stick a rookie in at QB just because they liked him. NO ONE, not Shanny, nor Dinger, nor Jake, wanted Cutler to be playing in year one. They wanted Jake to take them back to the AFC Championship game, and hopefully win it this time, while Cutler learned on the sidelines.

Jake was ill fitted for the system mikey wanted to put into DEN especially with the small OLINE designed for ZBS

OMG.

Jay is most likely to get killed behind the small existing ZBS OLINE. no fault of Jays, but mikeys..

OMG.

Denver's fans and media are unrealistic in their expectations for the QB's in DEN expecting everyone to be as good or better than JOHN.

That make it clear enough.. going to bed.. unless I have to mod anyomre threads..


I'll just leave it that we disagree then since youre crashing. Im lookin on the bright side of things. I just saw an awesome superbowl, and as a football fan, the day was fulfilling.

Nothing can get in the way of that.

Time to drive the hammock.

Your turn Spike.:beer:

fcspikeit
02-04-2008, 06:43 PM
OK slowly this time..

Dinger was brought in when Gary left.. can we agree on this?

I never disputed this? However this is by far different then what you said before. You made it sound like Shanahan got rid of Jake's buddy and replaced him with someone else just to spite Plummer. When you put it this way, how does it go along with Shanahan slapping Plummer in the face by replaising Gary? The fact is, Gary left, Shanahan replaced him with someone he felt was familiar with the offence and what he wanted to do. I fail to see how this was jobbing Plummer?

also Gary and Jake were tight.. Dinger and Jake had no close relationship


Again,, Gary left, what was Shanahan to do? What other OC should shanahan have hired that was close to Plummer? Here's another thing. If Gary and Jake were so close why didn't Gary offer a 4th round pick for Plummer? If you look at who the Texans went after, they got a pocket passer. Who by the way they gave up a hell of a lot more then a 4th round pick for! Like it or not, Kubiak wasn't as high on Plummer as you like to think. He didn't even make an effort to go after his supposed buddy.


Dinger was a proponent of Jay thus had little desire to see Jake succeed.


The last 2 years we have seen the same offense. We went away from the miss direction for a more traditional passing game. How is this hosing Plummer?
Where does it stop? If we replace some of our O-lineman with guys that can hold up in pocket passing are we hosing them too? Walker is better suited for the deep ball, are we hosing him because we are not scheming to his strength? The players you have on your team either fit your scheme or they don't. Plummer did not fit what Shanahan was trying to do. So he replaced him. It happens every year in the NFL. Plummer had his chance to prove he was worthy of the starting job, he failed. Whys that so hard to understand?

Also, It don't sound like Cutler is losing any sleep over Dinger leaving. So the imaginary relationship between Dinger and Cutler don't exist. I thought our play calling has been lousy the last 2 years. It was no better for Cutler then it was for Plummer. If you feel the play calling was designed for Plummer to fail then you should also feel it is designed for Cutler to fail. Plummer did not get hosed!


Jake was ill fitted for the system mikey wanted to put into DEN especially with the small OLINE designed for ZBS


I agree! That's why we benched him and went with someone who was better fitted for the offensive scheme and what we wanted to do on offense. Cutler is playing behind the same small OLINE designed for a ZBS. Cutler was given no favors. He is starting because he can and has done more in the new scheme then Plummer could. Why should any team start a guy that limits the offense when you have someone better suited for the job sitting on the bench? If Plummer was half the QB some people make him out to be he would have got a lot more attention then he did. Last time I checked, a 4th round pick for a true starting QB is pathetic. The sad thing is, not even Plummers buddy would offer that for Jake. Instead he went out and gave up a lot more for a pocket passer. You have a guy who most GM's in the league don't even consider worth a 4th round pick and another guy who is a 1st round pick. Even after Plummers lousy play people complain that he was benched. It really don't make any since.


Jay is most likely to get killed behind the small existing ZBS OLINE. no fault of Jays, but mikeys..

Denver's fans and media are unrealistic in their expectations for the QB's in DEN expecting everyone to be as good or better than JOHN.

That make it clear enough.. going to bed.. unless I have to mod anyomre threads..


Being unrealistic is one thing, But even you admit, Plummers was never suited for pocket passing. His play showed that. He just didn't fit what we wanted to do on offense. Since when should a team limit what they want to do for any one player? How many guys did we cut this last year because they didn't fit what we wanted to do? Why should Plummer have been any different? No one player is above the team.

We traded Plummer because he didn't want to be here anymore. He asked to be traded. I fail to see how he got jobbed? Maybe Plummer doesn't owe the Broncos anything, but the Broncos surely didn't owe Plummer any more then the chance to prove his worth. He couldn't convert into the pocket passer Shanahan wanted so he was benched to give someone else a shot. If Cutler fails to live up to expectations he will be replaced tot. Its just life in the NFL.

Plummer seems to be happy, good for him. I don't feel bad for him and I never will

Cowboy
02-04-2008, 07:07 PM
This May sound stupid.

Jakes Aunt is the bartender at one of my hangout bars here in New mexico.
She told me Jake is happy as ever now. Hemarried that cheerleader he had been dating and it was a big wedding. He bought a ranch in Idaho and had no interest in playing anymore cause he has everything he needs. He still has his knees also.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 07:25 PM
Being unrealistic is one thing, But even you admit, Plummers was never suited for pocket passing. His play showed that. He just didn't fit what we wanted to do on offense. Since when should a team limit what they want to do for any one player? How many guys did we cut this last year because they didn't fit what we wanted to do? Why should Plummer have been any different? No one player is above the team.

We traded Plummer because he didn't want to be here anymore. He asked to be traded. I fail to see how he got jobbed? Maybe Plummer doesn't owe the Broncos anything, but the Broncos surely didn't owe Plummer any more then the chance to prove his worth. He couldn't convert into the pocket passer Shanahan wanted so he was benched to give someone else a shot. If Cutler fails to live up to expectations he will be replaced tot. Its just life in the NFL.

Plummer seems to be happy, good for him. I don't feel bad for him and I never will

Sorry if you read something into my posts last night I did not intend.

Was tired and thought I had stated my case.. Apparently not..

I did not say anywhere that mikey could not change his offense.

I said it did not suit Jake and therefore IMHO he got hosed..

Now the team is limiting the offense to suit Jay a pocket passer with less roll outs something that has been a staple of bronco play book for years.. Just as they did for greasy..

I have not said they had to do anything for Jake other than be honest with him. I guess that they do not owe him that either.. Pay him for play or sitting on the bench is all the obligation they have to him..

If you really believe that the pocket passer style of play books was added just for Jake well your naive.

IMO the minute they drafted Jay the play book changed.. In fact with Dinger having seen Jay play as much as he had I think the minute he was hired he put the bug in his ear to replace Jake and look strong at Jay..

Was this wrong absolutely not.. Why try to teach and old dog new tricks.

He made his bones making a young QB into a superstar..

If Jake is happy and it sounds like he is.. works for me seems like we have a budding QB here I just hope he does not get killed behind this OLINE.

Now lets :focus: or let the thread die a natural death..

fcspikeit
02-04-2008, 07:34 PM
This May sound stupid.

Jakes Aunt is the bartender at one of my hangout bars here in New mexico.
She told me Jake is happy as ever now. Hemarried that cheerleader he had been dating and it was a big wedding. He bought a ranch in Idaho and had no interest in playing anymore cause he has everything he needs. He still has his knees also.

I'm glad hes happy.

Normally it seems when players retire without a SB ring they always feel there was something left undone. Knowing the type of competitor Jake was I am a little surprised he would leave before he achieved the top goal. IMO this clearly shows winning a Superbowl wasn't the most important thing to Plummer. Knowing that its probably better he retired. Maybe I will run into him some time her in Idaho? Where is his ranch? He grew up in Idaho City, I hear that's where his folks are. I work up there some times. It is a little town. If he is up there I'm sure I will run into him.

If I do I will offer to buy him a Coke, I bet we have a lot in common. Maybe we can go hunting together. That would be cool....

WARHORSE
02-04-2008, 07:43 PM
This May sound stupid.

Jakes Aunt is the bartender at one of my hangout bars here in New mexico.
She told me Jake is happy as ever now. Hemarried that cheerleader he had been dating and it was a big wedding. He bought a ranch in Idaho and had no interest in playing anymore cause he has everything he needs. He still has his knees also.

If thats true, good for good ole Jake.

Happy Trails Snake.:beer:

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 07:46 PM
If thats true, good for good ole Jake.

Happy Trails Snake.:beer:

Would you not be happy with the hot cheerleader quiet time in the hills an occasional hand ball game and more money than you know what to do with..

What else is there in life but kids to spoil.. I suspect they are working on that alot..

broncosfanscott
02-04-2008, 09:12 PM
This May sound stupid.

Jakes Aunt is the bartender at one of my hangout bars here in New mexico.
She told me Jake is happy as ever now. Hemarried that cheerleader he had been dating and it was a big wedding. He bought a ranch in Idaho and had no interest in playing anymore cause he has everything he needs. He still has his knees also.


Glad to see his is happy and I am honestly not surprised. He was fortunate to end the game on his own terms and with his health.

Good for you Jake the Snake. :salute:

tubby
02-04-2008, 09:19 PM
So we are back to "good for Jake." Right?
:salute:

fcspikeit
02-05-2008, 01:34 AM
Sorry if you read something into my posts last night I did not intend.

Was tired and thought I had stated my case.. Apparently not..

I did not say anywhere that mikey could not change his offense.

I said it did not suit Jake and therefore IMHO he got hosed..

Now the team is limiting the offense to suit Jay a pocket passer with less roll outs something that has been a staple of bronco play book for years.. Just as they did for greasy..
I have not said they had to do anything for Jake other than be honest with him. I guess that they do not owe him that either.. Pay him for play or sitting on the bench is all the obligation they have to him..

If you really believe that the pocket passer style of play books was added just for Jake well your naive.

IMO the minute they drafted Jay the play book changed.. In fact with Dinger having seen Jay play as much as he had I think the minute he was hired he put the bug in his ear to replace Jake and look strong at Jay..

Was this wrong absolutely not.. Why try to teach and old dog new tricks.

He made his bones making a young QB into a superstar..

If Jake is happy and it sounds like he is.. works for me seems like we have a budding QB here I just hope he does not get killed behind this OLINE.

Now lets :focus: or let the thread die a natural death..


Beings its the off season and this seams to be the most interesting thread at this time. I am going to further our discussion on the matter.

I don't think our offense is limited with Cutler. He can roll out and throw outside the pocked with the best of them. His #'s were outstanding outside the pocket. I'm not saying he is/was better the Plummer outside the pocked, just that he can clearly do it. But he also has the arm to throw from the pocket and make any throw needed to be a good pocket passer.

"If you really believe that the pocket passer style of play books was added just for Jake well your naive"

I believe it went hand and hand with what they wanted to do and drafting Cutler. We were so one dimensional in the passing game that we would fall on our face when the D stopped the boot. IMO, seeing that lead Shanahan to try other things. Knowing Plummer's weakness passing from the pocket lead them to drafting Cutler, that and the fact Shanahan really liked Cutler, and Plummer was getting up there in years and maybe they had a clue Plummer was talking of getting out?

I don't believe they wanted Plummer to fail. I do believe they asked him to do something that he could not. Who knows how long Plummer would have remained the starter if he would have continued his play from 05? The fact is, he was not playing well and maybe he had lost the fire for the game to compete for the starting job?

I believe the play book was changing as to why they drafted Cutler. I don't believe it changed because they drafted him.

Hobe
02-05-2008, 10:01 PM
Jake bashing

:deadhorse:

Move on...he has

BANJOPICKER1
02-05-2008, 10:15 PM
He was done the day we singed Jay
Naw,he won us some games and took us to the playoffs..When he saw Jay is when he was done...I think he is finished in the NFL and just wants to spend his bank and have fun...:D

Lonestar
02-05-2008, 11:53 PM
Naw,he won us some games and took us to the playoffs..When he saw Jay is when he was done...I think he is finished in the NFL and just wants to spend his bank and have fun...:D

do not forget his new wife, and the quiet mountian air..

Requiem / The Dagda
02-06-2008, 12:01 AM
that just teh life and law of teh averages when u stick it to mikey for betrayin jake. that's teh life.

topscribe
02-06-2008, 02:57 AM
that just teh life and law of teh averages when u stick it to mikey for betrayin jake. that's teh life.

Huh? :confused:

-----

fcspikeit
02-06-2008, 07:37 PM
Huh? :confused:

-----

:dito: :whoknows:

Broncospsycho77
02-06-2008, 08:12 PM
that just teh life and law of teh averages when u stick it to mikey for betrayin jake. that's teh life.

Oh, I get it. Is that JWalk?

fcspikeit
02-06-2008, 11:17 PM
Oh, I get it. Is that JWalk?

LOL...

Dream is not JWalk but maybe he was imitating him? Although.. With the term "Mikey" maybe he was imitating someone else? :D

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 03:05 AM
LOL...

Dream is not JWalk but maybe he was imitating him? Although.. With the term "Mikey" maybe he was imitating someone else? :D

you trying to bait me into another Jake war?

WARHORSE
02-07-2008, 04:44 AM
Jake bashing

:deadhorse:

Move on...he has


Booooo...........


Wasnt Jake bashing at all.:coffee:

Broncolingus
02-07-2008, 12:35 PM
I'm not sure bashing Jake-off will ever go out of style...

...it's just so easy and fun how can one resist?

http://images.usatoday.com/sports/_sphotos/2006-01-15-inside-plummer.jpg

tubby
02-07-2008, 12:47 PM
Good for Jake.

fcspikeit
02-08-2008, 02:23 PM
you trying to bait me into another Jake war?

Who Me? :D


It looks like the Plummer Wars have played out :( I was hoping to get into a "Mikey" war.. :laugh:

There really isn't much to war about with Jake... All that's left is hoping to get the better pick, Which has less to do with bashing Plummer and more to do with wanting the best for the Broncos... I'm not really sure why so many have that mixed up? :confused:

Why do so many feel those who want the better pick are somehow bashing Jake? I guess some people just have a hard time letting go.


Then they point the finger at others for beating a dead horse :lol:

Lonestar
02-08-2008, 02:48 PM
Who Me? :D


It looks like the Plummer Wars have played out :( I was hoping to get into a "Mikey" war.. :laugh:

There really isn't much to war about with Jake... All that's left is hoping to get the better pick, Which has less to do with bashing Plummer and more to do with wanting the best for the Broncos... I'm not really sure why so many have that mixed up? :confused:

Why do so many feel those who want the better pick are somehow bashing Jake? I guess some people just have a hard time letting go.


Then they point the finger at others for beating a dead horse :lol:

Love to get into a mikey war so many think he is THE cats ass that can do no wrong. While he is one of the top 3 offensive minds in the league the rest of his job description leaves alot to be desired.

But start a thread and while the next 8-10 days are gong to be limited posting time for me I'll play..

As to Jake I liked the guy he gave all he had at the office and was found lacking by the some of the fans and the media in DEN are relentless. and will be till John is old a gray.

Some fans will ever be happy with Jay, Jake, greasy, Bubby because they are not the Duke.. No other way to describe it. Frankly even John had warts, but some will never see them. But unless your as good or better than John they will never accept the newbie QB pretenders that have came along since..

As good as greasy and Jake were and no matter what records they broke they are not John.. I fear the same for Jay..

fcspikeit
02-08-2008, 03:34 PM
Love to get into a mikey war so many think he is THE cats ass that can do no wrong. While he is one of the top 3 offensive minds in the league the rest of his job description leaves alot to be desired.

But start a thread and while the next 8-10 days are gong to be limited posting time for me I'll play..


I fear we would be arguing largely the same thing. As with Plummer, it is not black and white. Most the arguments are over the gray matter in the middle. There is enough to argue for either side and make a point. I have never considered myself a Jake or Mikey basher,, but that doesn't mean I am blind to their faults either.

As good as greasy and Jake were and no matter what records they broke they are not John.. I fear the same for Jay..


I doubt I for one will ever say Cutler or anyone else for that matter, is better then Elway, no matter the records that get broke. The NFL is different today then it was yesterday, It's hard to compare players of the past with players of the future.

In my mind its about who's best for the job, If you can get an upgrade at any position you should jump. Of course, opinions will vary on whether or not any player is an upgrade.

Eli now has a Superbowl ring, But I would be pissed if we traded Cutler for Eli. That's just me,, I reserve the right to be a little biased toward the players I like. I also except the fact others do the same. Jake will always be one of those players for some people. I wish him the best! But I also really hope he reports to Tampa so we get the better pick :D

Lonestar
02-08-2008, 03:47 PM
not gonna happen and certainly not to help out mikey..

as for the fans his number one fan is sleeping with him now and for the rest of them, I frankly do not think he cares. Considering the rail many wanted to ride him out of town on.. When Jay was drafted many started to gather feathers and melting tar..

HolyDiver
02-08-2008, 03:53 PM
Love to get into a mikey war so many think he is THE cats ass that can do no wrong. While he is one of the top 3 offensive minds in the league the rest of his job description leaves alot to be desired.

But start a thread and while the next 8-10 days are gong to be limited posting time for me I'll play..

As to Jake I liked the guy he gave all he had at the office and was found lacking by the some of the fans and the media in DEN are relentless. and will be till John is old a gray.

Some fans will ever be happy with Jay, Jake, greasy, Bubby because they are not the Duke.. No other way to describe it. Frankly even John had warts, but some will never see them. But unless your as good or better than John they will never accept the newbie QB pretenders that have came along since..

As good as greasy and Jake were and no matter what records they broke they are not John.. I fear the same for Jay..

Cutler already has had a better 2nd year than Elway, statistically..............No reason to think he can't throw for 4000 yards and 28 td's this season, all while completing 64% of his passes...............And if that adds up to wins, the most important stat, we'll start forgeting about Elway, finally. ...............Forgeting as far as giving Cutler his due.

HolyDiver
02-08-2008, 03:59 PM
2007 297 467 3497 63.6 7.49 68 20 14 27 88.1 --------Cutler's 2007, 2nd season

1984 DEN 15 214 380 56.3 2,598 6.84 18 15 76.8 ----------Elway's 1984, 2nd season