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broncohead
01-31-2008, 08:32 PM
I know there has been a lot of talk on this subject allready but we have some down time and have nothing to do but talk and speculate.


Sharpe says Broncos must cut Walker
By The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 01/31/2008 01:31:48 AM MST


PHOENIX — Former Broncos star tight end Shannon Sharpe keeps close tabs on the team and says it needs to make a move to become a playoff team again: cut receiver Javon Walker.

"I think Mike (Shanahan) will relieve himself of that situation," Sharpe said Wednesday. "It's not going to get any better there for Walker."

On the day after the season ended, Walker said he didn't think he was a good fit in Denver. Walker has a large salary, and the Broncos are likely to trade or cut the receiver. Sharpe said the Broncos will be better off without Walker because he has become a distraction, while Brandon Marshall has become the team's No. 1 receiver.

"Javon isn't the No. 1 anymore there, and it's not going to change," Sharpe said. "He kind of showed where he is coming from by saying what he said."

Sharpe believes the Broncos can regain their form as a playoff team, but they need to find stability on the defensive line and continue their recent trend of successful drafting.

Walker obviously wants to be the #1 but you don't see him on the list with J. Cutler, B. Marshall, and Tony S. going to Atlanta. Marshall will astablish a connection even stronger than last year with Jay and so will Tony. You can't be #1 when your hurt all the time. You can't be #1 when you have no desire to play for that team anymore. Cut or trade Walker and use that money or draft pick to move up in the draft to get Ellis!

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8123441

Rex
01-31-2008, 08:33 PM
that about sums it up

DenverBronkHoes
01-31-2008, 08:47 PM
hes right.....

sharpe is ugly, but he knows what hes talkin about here. Javon is no good

jrelway
01-31-2008, 09:17 PM
hes right.....

sharpe is ugly, but he knows what hes talkin about here. Javon is no good

yes, sharpe was pretty ugly, but his play was oh so pretty.

BeefStew25
01-31-2008, 09:23 PM
Sharpe knows a locker room. His opinion trumps lame media types.

broncogirl7
01-31-2008, 09:24 PM
I agree with him. It's in the best interest of the team to cut Walker.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 09:32 PM
Can't win games with ME and I players.

broncohead
01-31-2008, 11:08 PM
When you watch players that give it their all every play you can see that. If Walker is to come back next year I don't see him being one of those players. He'll just bring everyone down.

Lonestar
01-31-2008, 11:38 PM
time to cut our loses and move on..

I doubt we can get any draft choices for him considering they inherit the contract..

Trade him for a ham sandwich and a glass of green tea..

OB
01-31-2008, 11:43 PM
Im bummed he didnt pan out - I had high hopes :sad:

Watchthemiddle
01-31-2008, 11:50 PM
Time will tell.

Its too bad if he doesn't work out. He was so good in 06 and at the start of 07. It seemed like him a Cutler clicked immediately.

Oh well. Atleast we have Marshall....:cool:

WARHORSE
02-01-2008, 01:38 AM
Everything will depend on what takes place in the meeting in February.

If Walker wants out, Shanny will tell him to go make the trade happen.........ala.......Clinton Portis.

I think he should go to Washington first and ask for Laron Landry, their first rounder, and Chris Samuels for Walker, our fourth rounder and a used toothbrush.

dogfish
02-01-2008, 03:42 AM
time to cut our loses and move on..

I doubt we can get any draft choices for him considering they inherit the contract..

Trade him for a ham sandwich and a glass of green tea..

make it a roast beef sandwich and it sounds good to me. . . at this point, i'll consider anything we can get for him a bonus. . . i do think we can get at least a late round pick for him, but anything beyond that is probably wishful thinking. . .




Everything will depend on what takes place in the meeting in February.

If Walker wants out, Shanny will tell him to go make the trade happen.........ala.......Clinton Portis.

I think he should go to Washington first and ask for Laron Landry, their first rounder, and Chris Samuels for Walker, our fourth rounder and a used toothbrush.



can we throw in ian gold too?

BOSSHOGG30
02-01-2008, 05:05 PM
More than a few of you know how much I was and am against Travis Henry, but if I had a choice to keep Henry or Walker I would keep Henry. At least Henry is a team player. Walker is all about himself and I can't stand that.

Rex
02-01-2008, 05:06 PM
More than a few of you know how much I was and am against Travis Henry, but if I had a choice to keep Henry or Walker I would keep Henry. At least Henry is a team player. Walker is all about himself and I can't stand that.

and Henry does not have a 60 y/o knee.

claymore
02-01-2008, 05:07 PM
More than a few of you know how much I was and am against Travis Henry, but if I had a choice to keep Henry or Walker I would keep Henry. At least Henry is a team player. Walker is all about himself and I can't stand that.

I doubt its possible, but I would love to trade Walker to TB for Clayton.

tubby
02-01-2008, 05:10 PM
I doubt its possible, but I would love to trade Walker to TB for Clayton.

I think Clayton is a FA.

BOSSHOGG30
02-01-2008, 05:11 PM
I doubt its possible, but I would love to trade Walker to TB for Clayton.

I read somewhere that Clayton has a clause in his contract where he can become a free agent this year... I don't know if he will take it, but I know he is in Gruden's dog house. I wonder if he doesn't take the free agent buy out, how much it would cost us to trade for him? I bet Tampa Bay would do it fairly cheap. Considering Clayton is a top 5 blocking wideout and a decent #2 option, I wouldn't be upset sending Tampa a 5th rounder for him.

BOSSHOGG30
02-01-2008, 05:13 PM
Clayton's contract
7/23/2004: Signed a six-year, $13 million contract. The deal included a $6.2 million signing bonus. 2008: $2 million (buy out clause), 2009: $1 million (buy out clause), 2010: Free Agent

Lonestar
02-01-2008, 05:19 PM
I read somewhere that Clayton has a clause in his contract where he can become a free agent this year... I don't know if he will take it, but I know he is in Gruden's dog house. I wonder if he doesn't take the free agent buy out, how much it would cost us to trade for him? I bet Tampa Bay would do it fairly cheap. Considering Clayton is a top 5 blocking wideout and a decent #2 option, I wouldn't be upset sending Tampa a 5th rounder for him.

give them back their 7th rounder they gave for Jake.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-01-2008, 05:24 PM
And we all know how Shanny gets fixated on players. He reportedly LOVED Clayton when he was drafted by TB.

Lonestar
02-01-2008, 05:27 PM
And we all know how Shanny gets fixated on players. He reportedly LOVED Clayton when he was drafted by TB.

do you suppose mikey is got a man crush in him? Maybe that is what his problem is he is gay..

tubby
02-01-2008, 05:29 PM
do you suppose mikey is got a man crush in him? Maybe that is what his problem is he is gay..

Please keep the sex talk in the lounge.

Thanks.

underrated29
02-01-2008, 05:32 PM
Im bummed he didnt pan out - I had high hopes :sad:



I BET YOU had high hopes. :Lol:


I did too!

Dreadnought
02-01-2008, 06:14 PM
I work with a Jets fan who told me today his dream would be a Vilma for Walker trade. As if! I would have done it in a heartbeat, but alas, I doubt real live Jets execs would be that stupid. Even the ham sandwich looks pretty good now, frankly.

dogfish
02-01-2008, 08:47 PM
I work with a Jets fan who told me today his dream would be a Vilma for Walker trade. As if! I would have done it in a heartbeat, but alas, I doubt real live Jets execs would be that stupid. Even the ham sandwich looks pretty good now, frankly.

one coleslaw knee for another, huh? i'd rather ditch walker and NOT bring in any more gimps. . . .

Dreadnought
02-01-2008, 08:50 PM
one coleslaw knee for another, huh? i'd rather ditch walker and NOT bring in any more gimps. . . .

At least Vilma won't piss and moan all the time - so its still a good deal. I wouldn't trade anything more valuable than Walker, mind you. Well, maybe Nick Ferguson if they ask nice.

broncosfanscott
02-01-2008, 08:52 PM
I understand that Walker wants to be the #1 WR, however when he was out Marshall stepped up and stepped up big. Walker should revisit what happened to Lelie when he wanted to be the #1. He should put in the time by going to Atlanta. Even if he can't run as hard or go as long as the others, just being there will help with the chemistry.

dogfish
02-01-2008, 09:10 PM
I understand that Walker wants to be the #1 WR, however when he was out Marshall stepped up and stepped up big. Walker should revisit what happened to Lelie when he wanted to be the #1. He should put in the time by going to Atlanta. Even if he can't run as hard or go as long as the others, just being there will help with the chemistry.


yea, otherwise he might end up actually going to atlanta, the way lilly did. . . . :lol:

dogfish
02-01-2008, 09:16 PM
At least Vilma won't piss and moan all the time - so its still a good deal. I wouldn't trade anything more valuable than Walker, mind you. Well, maybe Nick Ferguson if they ask nice.

i'd just rather get the contract off the books-- i'd rather see it go towards extensions for dj, doom, or marshall in the next year or two. . . vilma looked like the next ray lewis when he had big-bodied jason ferguson in front of him, but i just don't trust guys coming off micro-fracture, and i believe he was scheduled for one this offseason. . . while we're in the realm of speculation, i'd rather take on dewayne robertson as a reclamation project if we were going to trade with the jets. . .

ultimately though, i don't think it would make sense for them to pay for walker-- they've got two good WRs with coles and cotchery, and brad smith is said to still have a lot of upside. . . they could use a bigger possesion/red zone type, but i think they can get one cheaper than walker, and he doesn't really have the world's surest hands anyways. . . my guess is that if we're able to trade him, tennessee and minnesota are the most likely destinations. . .

BANJOPICKER1
02-01-2008, 09:43 PM
More than a few of you know how much I was and am against Travis Henry, but if I had a choice to keep Henry or Walker I would keep Henry. At least Henry is a team player. Walker is all about himself and I can't stand that.

Ok,lets say in week 3 of 08,Marshel breaks his leg??then what?Look at the pats,what,5 great ball catchers on the team??then look at Denver?I say we should keep the guy..

GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!:D

BOSSHOGG30
02-01-2008, 09:44 PM
Ok,lets say in week 3 of 08,Marshel breaks his leg??then what?Look at the pats,what,5 great ball catchers on the team??then look at Denver?I say we should keep the guy..

GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!:D

And how does Walker help us when he is on injuried reserve?

Bronco4ever
02-01-2008, 09:58 PM
Ok,lets say in week 3 of 08,Marshel breaks his leg??then what?Look at the pats,what,5 great ball catchers on the team??then look at Denver?I say we should keep the guy..

GOOOOOOOOOOOO BRONCOS!!:D

We can play hypotheticals all day at every position on the team. Injuries happen, there is no way to avoid them all. I don't think an injury prone player with two shot knees will really help us if we get a case of the injury bug. The sad thing is, we probably wouldn't have this convo if Javon knew how to be a team player.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 09:34 AM
Agreed...if Cutty goes down we all know the team is FUBAR regardless...

Scarface
02-02-2008, 09:51 AM
Agreed...if Cutty goes down we all know the team is FUBAR regardless...

I don't even want to think about that, dude.

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 09:57 AM
Man, Walker for Vilma straight up.

Do it in a heartbeat.

Vilma in the middle and DJ to will.

Sign Bryant Johnson/Michael Clayton and we are so much better even before we draft.

Still need to fix OT and Dline, but we will be on our way.

MileHighWrath
02-02-2008, 10:36 AM
Why do so many WR end up with prima donna disease? Cut or trade JW, fine, but sign a WR with some fire in his belly that will go out there and play football and leave the whining and attention mongering at home please.

MOtorboat
02-02-2008, 10:38 AM
Why do so many WR end up with prima donna disease? Cut or trade JW, fine, but sign a WR with some fire in his belly that will go out there and play football and leave the whining and attention mongering at home please.

Marvin Harrison isn't a free agent...

Dreadnought
02-02-2008, 10:39 AM
Marvin Harrison isn't a free agent...

...and Rod Smith is pretty much out of gas...

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 10:42 AM
Why do so many WR end up with prima donna disease? Cut or trade JW, fine, but sign a WR with some fire in his belly that will go out there and play football and leave the whining and attention mongering at home please.Please see Bryant Johnson/Michael Clayton...

Johnson as always been a #2 or #3 so he doesn't need to be the #1 guy. Great blocker, solid WR...

Clayton has fallen behind Galloway and I've never heard him complain. Great size and would be perfect with BMarsh. Another great blocker.

Hobe
02-02-2008, 06:58 PM
time to cut our loses and move on..

I doubt we can get any draft choices for him considering they inherit the contract..

Trade him for a ham sandwich and a glass of green tea..

If you add some swiss cheese to that ham sandwich and sweeten the deal with a little honey in the green tea, you got a trade.

He has been hurt a lot in Denver and lost his #1 spot. I bet we just end up releasing him. Then I bet KC picks him up.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:00 PM
If you add some swiss cheese to that ham sandwich and sweeten the deal with a little honey in the green tea, you got a trade.

He has been hurt a lot in Denver and lost his #1 spot. I bet we just end up releasing him. Then I bet KC picks him up.

Your probably correct KC takes our WR trash..

Dreadnought
02-02-2008, 07:31 PM
Your probably correct KC takes our WR trash..

True. I'm Surprised they never snagged Marcus Nash. The fact that worthless Quitterson was their "premier" WR for years speaks volumes about that organization.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:35 PM
True. I'm Surprised they never snagged Marcus Nash. The fact that worthless Quitterson was their "premier" WR for years speaks volumes about that organization.

but then even KC was not that stupid, marcus nash perhaps one of the top 3 of all of mikeys DAFT choice if not numero uno...

Bronco9798
02-02-2008, 07:42 PM
I'd like to have Javon paired up with BM, and Stokley in the slot. It's just too bad JW has this attitude. Cutler could have a nice three or four years with these guys, and throw Scheff in there at TE, and this offense could be just nasty. Too bad JW has to have his attitude and not be a team player.

I say get rid of him if he can't come around. His attitude will kill this offense next year. Not to say what kind of impact it could have on BM, if it hasn't already.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 07:44 PM
I'd like to have Javon paired up with BM, and Stokley in the slot. It's just too bad JW has this attitude. Cutler could have a nice three or four years with these guys, and throw Scheff in there at TE, and this offense could be just nasty. Too bad JW has to have his attitude and not be a team player.

I say get rid of him if he can't come around. His attitude will kill this offense next year. Not to say what kind of impact it could have on BM, if it hasn't already.

add Graham, and YOUNG and hall out of the back field and poor javon does not get the ball enough..

cut the clown and get rid of the cancer, before it spreads....

Dreadnought
02-02-2008, 08:36 PM
add Graham, and YOUNG and hall out of the back field and poor javon does not get the ball enough..

cut the clown and get rid of the cancer, before it spreads....

Maybe the best service JW can perform for us is an an object lesson for B Marshall. You want a role model? Look at Mr. Smith over there and how he conducts business. You want to be a jerk then we'll show you the door too. Walker probably had more native ability than Rod ever did, but Rod had (has) a work ethic, a team oriented attitude, is tough as nails, plays a complete game to include blocking. He clearly studied and perfected his craft. JW had one good year with us and then he turns into a Horses wazoo. Enough.

Lonestar
02-02-2008, 09:32 PM
Maybe the best service JW can perform for us is an an object lesson for B Marshall. You want a role model? Look at Mr. Smith over there and how he conducts business. You want to be a jerk then we'll show you the door too. Walker probably had more native ability than Rod ever did, but Rod had (has) a work ethic, a team oriented attitude, is tough as nails, plays a complete game to include blocking. He clearly studied and perfected his craft. JW had one good year with us and then he turns into a Horses wazoo. Enough.

Very few class acts in the NFL WR corps Eddie Mac and Rod define them..

javon, quiterson and ashley are at the other end of the spectrum..

Stargazer
02-03-2008, 05:29 AM
Bmarsh might have never exploded on the scene if Javon was playing.

We'll see what happens in the next few months. Javon has unfortunately shown his true colors. If he doesn't take a cut in pay, he's on his way out. The Broncos have traded a #2, and paid Javon a good chunk of change so far. Would like to see him back, but I don't see it happening. The quest for another WR, unfortunately, continues.

topscribe
02-03-2008, 12:43 PM
Will Walker be the latest to leave the Broncos and star somewhere else? I
have long since wearied of this ongoing trend. I believe it is time to start
working with the players and helping them to fit in. Where would the Patriots
be without that "brat" Moss? Maybe Shanny ought to consult with his friend
Belichik and find out how he did it.

Even T.O. has been helping to lift the Cowboys to the next level.

Javon is a star who has been on the verge of superstardom. BMarsh would
only help him to achieve that status, and he might make the difference
between making the playoffs and not (assuming a couple defensive holes are
plugged).

Really, look at the players thrown out the door: Berry, Hayward, Pryce, Dayne,
O'Neal . . . even Warren went on to do a credible job for the Raiders. So
now we can shove Javon out the door for chump change, and he can
achieve his superstardom for someone else.

It won't be any surprise to me. Not anymore. :coffee:

-----

dogfish
02-03-2008, 04:32 PM
Will Walker be the latest to leave the Broncos and star somewhere else? I
have long since wearied of this ongoing trend. I believe it is time to start
working with the players and helping them to fit in. Where would the Patriots
be without that "brat" Moss? Maybe Shanny ought to consult with his friend
Belichik and find out how he did it.

Even T.O. has been helping to lift the Cowboys to the next level.

Javon is a star who has been on the verge of superstardom. BMarsh would
only help him to achieve that status, and he might make the difference
between making the playoffs and not (assuming a couple defensive holes are
plugged).

Really, look at the players thrown out the door: Berry, Hayward, Pryce, Dayne,
O'Neal . . . even Warren went on to do a credible job for the Raiders. So
now we can shove Javon out the door for chump change, and he can
achieve his superstardom for someone else.

It won't be any surprise to me. Not anymore. :coffee:

-----


i would probably agree with you, if i didn't think javon's knee was toast. . . if i remember correctly, we have to pay him an option bonus in the 5 mil range if we want to keep him this year-- not worth the risk, IMO. . .

topscribe
02-03-2008, 05:10 PM
i would probably agree with you, if i didn't think javon's knee was toast. . . if i remember correctly, we have to pay him an option bonus in the 5 mil range if we want to keep him this year-- not worth the risk, IMO. . .

I have no idea whether Walker's knee is healthy. Do you?

If it is not, then he is not worth anything to anyone, and it all becomes moot.

-----

Traveler
02-03-2008, 05:25 PM
i would probably agree with you, if i didn't think javon's knee was toast. . . if i remember correctly, we have to pay him an option bonus in the 5 mil range if we want to keep him this year-- not worth the risk, IMO. . .

Shanahan set a precedent when he finally ceded to Lelie. He shouldn't do the same with Walker. Whether the team keeps him or not, Javon will still get paid almost the entire $5 million.

So, why not keep him since we have to pay him regardless. If he doesn't show up, fine his ass and go after his signing bonus.

Npba900
02-03-2008, 06:31 PM
Is there any way to defer/spread out Javon 5 mil dollar bonus!!! Especially if Javon and Denver are willing to compromise!!!

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:51 PM
Shanahan set a precedent when he finally ceded to Lelie. He shouldn't do the same with Walker. Whether the team keeps him or not, Javon will still get paid almost the entire $5 million.

So, why not keep him since we have to pay him regardless. If he doesn't show up, fine his ass and go after his signing bonus.

If we cut him he does not get a dime more.. He has all the monies he has earned so far. If he does not get cut he gets a roster type bonus. If he is cut he gets nothing.. What he has received in bonuses would accelerate to this year for cap purposes ONLY.



Is there any way to defer/spread out Javon 5 mil dollar bonus!!! Especially if Javon and Denver are willing to compromise!!!

If Javon is afraid his knee is shot and therefore will not give any money back. He would have to compromise and even though I think Mikey is a clown as a GM, I do not think even he is that stupid to keep him..

dogfish
02-04-2008, 12:11 AM
I have no idea whether Walker's knee is healthy. Do you?

If it is not, then he is not worth anything to anyone, and it all becomes moot.

-----

well, i obviously don't know for sure, but i will say this-- he hardly looked like it was healthy in the games he played at the end of the season. . . maybe rest will cure that over the offseason, but it's been rumored that he would need microfracture surgery on it. . . we'll see what happens, but the fact that he had enough swelling and discomfort in his surgically repaired knee to keep him out as long as he was is a very, very bad sign IMO-- i've seen plenty of guys in the NFL come back from knee scopes in several weeks time, but it took javon two full months, and even then he was very gimpy. . . looks suspiciously like the progression of courtney brown's knee problems to me. . .



Shanahan set a precedent when he finally ceded to Lelie. He shouldn't do the same with Walker. Whether the team keeps him or not, Javon will still get paid almost the entire $5 million.

So, why not keep him since we have to pay him regardless. If he doesn't show up, fine his ass and go after his signing bonus.

i'm not absolutely 100% sure on this, but i believe the bulk of the money we owe him next year is in the form of a roster bonus, which is NOT guaranteed the way signing bonus is-- if that's indeed the case, then we won't owe him that 5 mil if he's let go. . . as JR pointed out, his signing bonus would accelerate against this year's cap, but IMO that's better than paying him an enormous salary and potentially getting another 26 catches for 287 yards and no TDs out of him-- or worse. . . if his knee really is shot, as i fear it is, we may as well get him off the books now so that it doesn't come back to bite us later (say, for example, when we're looking to re-sign dj or extend marshall). . .

i do see your point in regards to lilly, but IMO shenanigans handled that situation perfectly-- he shipped off a malcontent and got more for him than he was worth (a 3rd round pick for a guy who hasn't done squat since, and who we didn't need at the time). . . . maybe there's some risk of setting a bad precedent if walker demands a trade and we oblige him, but is that a bigger risk than letting him hang around and infect brandon marshall with his sorry attitude?

naturally, my ideal scenario would be to see him get fully healthy over the offseason, and come back with a good attitude ready to be a factor for us. . . unfortunately, it just doesn't look very likely to me. . . JMO of course, and i'd be perfectly happy to be proven wrong. . . . but right now it looks like a nightmare scenario to me, and i think the best thing we can do is probably to cut our losses and move on. . .

Traveler
02-04-2008, 06:32 AM
i'm not absolutely 100% sure on this, but i believe the bulk of the money we owe him next year is in the form of a roster bonus, which is NOT guaranteed the way signing bonus is-- if that's indeed the case, then we won't owe him that 5 mil if he's let go. . . as JR pointed out, his signing bonus would accelerate against this year's cap, but IMO that's better than paying him an enormous salary and potentially getting another 26 catches for 287 yards and no TDs out of him-- or worse. . . if his knee really is shot, as i fear it is, we may as well get him off the books now so that it doesn't come back to bite us later (say, for example, when we're looking to re-sign dj or extend marshall). . .

JR is partly correct. Walker's contract contains a poison pill clause that states the team must pay him almost $3-4 million if they release/cut him. That is on top of the deferred bonus accelerating into this years cap number.

There's no way out of this for the Broncs IMO. I agree that paying him when we can't determine if he's healthy is a huge risk. But the team might not have a choice.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 02:11 PM
JR is partly correct. Walker's contract contains a poison pill clause that states the team must pay him almost $3-4 million if they release/cut him. That is on top of the deferred bonus accelerating into this years cap number.

There's no way out of this for the Broncs IMO. I agree that paying him when we can't determine if he's healthy is a huge risk. But the team might not have a choice.

I had not heard this and frankly if mikey agreed to that then that is just more more reason to get a professional dispassionate REAL GM in here to handle contracts and player acquisitions..

What a stupid thing to do.. How many player have we been unable to sign because of this clowns dead cap space we have hanging over our heads year after year.?

Broncolingus
02-04-2008, 02:28 PM
I know there has been a lot of talk on this subject allready but we have some down time and have nothing to do but talk and speculate.


Sharpe says Broncos must cut Walker
By The Denver Post
Article Last Updated: 01/31/2008 01:31:48 AM MST


PHOENIX — Former Broncos star tight end Shannon Sharpe keeps close tabs on the team and says it needs to make a move to become a playoff team again: cut receiver Javon Walker.

"I think Mike (Shanahan) will relieve himself of that situation," Sharpe said Wednesday. "It's not going to get any better there for Walker."

On the day after the season ended, Walker said he didn't think he was a good fit in Denver. Walker has a large salary, and the Broncos are likely to trade or cut the receiver. Sharpe said the Broncos will be better off without Walker because he has become a distraction, while Brandon Marshall has become the team's No. 1 receiver.

"Javon isn't the No. 1 anymore there, and it's not going to change," Sharpe said. "He kind of showed where he is coming from by saying what he said."

Sharpe believes the Broncos can regain their form as a playoff team, but they need to find stability on the defensive line and continue their recent trend of successful drafting.

Walker obviously wants to be the #1 but you don't see him on the list with J. Cutler, B. Marshall, and Tony S. going to Atlanta. Marshall will astablish a connection even stronger than last year with Jay and so will Tony. You can't be #1 when your hurt all the time. You can't be #1 when you have no desire to play for that team anymore. Cut or trade Walker and use that money or draft pick to move up in the draft to get Ellis!

http://www.denverpost.com/broncos/ci_8123441

I have no problem with that logic...

broncohead
02-04-2008, 03:25 PM
I don't know anything about the salary cap so if we trade him do we still take as big of a hit then just releasing him? When do we need to trade/release him by so we don't owe him a bonus?

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 03:27 PM
I don't know anything about the salary cap so if we trade him do we still take as big of a hit then just releasing him? When do we need to trade/release him by so we don't owe him a bonus?

Pretty much, no matter what we do with him it will cost the Broncos.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 03:54 PM
Pretty much, no matter what we do with him it will cost the Broncos.


Hey Boss have you heard about this poison pill alluded to a few posts back?

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 03:57 PM
Hey Boss have you heard about this poison pill alluded to a few posts back?

Yeah, that's what I hear anyways... Hopefully Denver learns from this and they won't put themselves in this type of situation again. Walker has the Broncos by the balls right now, they are probably on their knees asking Walker to redo his contract.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 04:03 PM
Yeah, that's what I hear anyways... Hopefully Denver learns from this and they won't put themselves in this type of situation again. Walker has the Broncos by the balls right now, they are probably on their knees asking Walker to redo his contract.

Well I'd tell him new contract or he gets the proverbial bad apple moniker around the league..

Sometimes principle means more than money.. If the clown sticks around the bad apple can and will infect many of the good players..


Once again I'll get on the mikey sucks as a GM bandstand..He falls in love with someone in FA or in the DAFT and all logic goes out the window.. and this type of crap follows a year or so later..

BOSSHOGG30
02-04-2008, 04:18 PM
I think the trade was a good one... I mean a 2nd rounder for a Pro Bowl talent WR. The contract part I don't agree with. I can't believe they threw in all their marbles like that on one player. At least it isn't as bad as a contract as the Cardinals have in Larry Fitzgerald. But aleast Larry likes his team and wants to play for them.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 04:31 PM
I think the trade was a good one... I mean a 2nd rounder for a Pro Bowl talent WR. The contract part I don't agree with. I can't believe they threw in all their marbles like that on one player. At least it isn't as bad as a contract as the Cardinals have in Larry Fitzgerald. But aleast Larry likes his team and wants to play for them.


sure a #2 for a great big fast WR that had proved himself the year before.. was IMO a steal.. But mikey should have had some clue about his whineyness and character from the stink he made in GB.

Unlikely we could have found an instant starter with that #2 and most likely if spent on a WR it would have taken 2-4 years to be worth a crap.

That is why we need a dispassionate professional making contracts. Not a HC that can't wait to unwrap in presents on Christmas morning and has to sneak a look.

CoachChaz
02-04-2008, 04:36 PM
Doesn't it make more sense for the guy responsible for running the talent onto the field to select the guys that he feels will be more beneficial to his team and his scheme than some stuffed shirt in an office.

I won't disagree that most coaches are bad GM's, but the idea does go against logic.

Lonestar
02-04-2008, 04:48 PM
Doesn't it make more sense for the guy responsible for running the talent onto the field to select the guys that he feels will be more beneficial to his team and his scheme than some stuffed shirt in an office.

I won't disagree that most coaches are bad GM's, but the idea does go against logic.

I think the HC, position coaches scouts all submit a list of I wants to the GM..

Then he tried to get them signing only the ones that fir into the scheme and can be had for a good price..

Very few GM's just draft who they want unless your name is al davis, they all talk to the HC and find out if he is someone they want..

You just have to have someone responsible negotiating and signing the contracts.. It is clear to most that mikey is not the right person to do that..

It gets personal if the GM does not give the clown everything he wants. If it is mikey doing that many times that boils over on the field.. there is a buffer zone.. Sometimes you have to have someone tell you no so far I do not think anyone has done that with mikey and we all know that outside the past two drafts his choices have sucked outside the LB field..

I am not advocating the GM just signing players he wants merely being the buffer between what the coach wants and what we can afford..

underrated29
02-04-2008, 04:50 PM
i wouldnt say he is a bad apple. He did something INSANLEY STUPID, but i dotn think if he stays he would be a cancer. You got to feel for him at some point. Jay only looked his direction like twice since he was back. Every player wants to play and wants some balls..he he i said balls....Even if its only 3 passes, so what give him 3 passes. I would opne my mouth if i was only getting 1 a game. i wouldnt be stupid about it, but i would let them know how i feel.

I really think though if we let him go it will be bad for jay. As you have seen Jay only seems to look for brandon. And if stokes and everyone else is sorta open, but brandon isnt really, jay will lock onto B, and try to fit the ball in.

We need jay to go through his reads, he needs to look around and not target one guy. This will be bad for him, his play and brandons health, with so many possible hits he will take.

what he did was dumb, but on the other hand why even play him if we arent going to throw to him. We might as well have started darius watts, as all the balls are going towards the other guys.

turftoad
02-04-2008, 05:01 PM
i wouldnt say he is a bad apple. He did something INSANLEY STUPID, but i dotn think if he stays he would be a cancer. You got to feel for him at some point. Jay only looked his direction like twice since he was back. Every player wants to play and wants some balls..he he i said balls....Even if its only 3 passes, so what give him 3 passes. I would opne my mouth if i was only getting 1 a game. i wouldnt be stupid about it, but i would let them know how i feel.

I really think though if we let him go it will be bad for jay. As you have seen Jay only seems to look for brandon. And if stokes and everyone else is sorta open, but brandon isnt really, jay will lock onto B, and try to fit the ball in.

We need jay to go through his reads, he needs to look around and not target one guy. This will be bad for him, his play and brandons health, with so many possible hits he will take.

what he did was dumb, but on the other hand why even play him if we arent going to throw to him. We might as well have started darius watts, as all the balls are going towards the other guys.

I really don't think there was a plan in place not to throw him the ball. When he did come back he still wasn't 100% and Cuttler lost the raport that himself and Walker had earlier on. Unfortunatly for Walker the raport was now with Marshall and Sheff. Walker (if he stays) needs to build it again with Cuttler.

BigDaddyBronco
02-04-2008, 05:06 PM
I really don't think there was a plan in place not to throw him the ball. When he did come back he still wasn't 100% and Cuttler lost the raport that himself and Walker had earlier on. Unfortunatly for Walker the raport was now with Marshall and Sheff. Walker (if he stays) needs to build it again with Cuttler.
And it's hard to build that chemistry if he isn't going with Cutler, Marshall, and Sheffler to Atlanta in the offseason. Sounds like Cutler has made his decision and Walker doesn't want to be second fiddle. Ok, fine, renegotiate your contract and take some less money and knock off a year or two, or make the contract less damaging to the Broncos so they can trade you.
Don't have a problem for these guys wanting to be paid, but don't be a damn malcontent or a team cancer.

dogfish
02-04-2008, 06:29 PM
i don't think it was chemistry, so much as the fact that walker didn't have the explosiveness to get any seperation. . .

Ricky
02-04-2008, 06:31 PM
i don't think it was chemistry, so much as the fact that walker didn't have the explosiveness to get any seperation. . .


Busted wheels can do that to a wide out.

nevcraw
02-04-2008, 06:44 PM
Could Walker redo his contract in order to make a trade more likely? Or agree to it only if he gets traded? Atleast if this happened another team would could possible swallow the draft pick without the serious salary risk to go with it.
If he wants out so bad, Maybe Shanny gets the agent on board with this. I do not know what this would do to his cap figure or even if it's possible, though..

topscribe
02-07-2008, 01:23 PM
You know, Bryant Johnson is an unrestricted free agent this year.

This guy intrigues me. Am I wrong?

-----

broncofanatic1987
02-07-2008, 01:56 PM
The Broncos should keep Walker without redoing his contract. That's if they believe he will be healthy at the beginning of the season.

If they don't believe he will be healthy, they might as well forget about trading him and go ahead and cut him. Why would a team trade for a receiver that's been hurt for most of the season when they know he will be cut? What team out there is going to be desperate enough to trade for Walker because they don't want to compete with other teams for him in free agency? I suppose the Broncos will hold on to him as long as they can, in hopes they find a team willing to make a trade, but in the end, they will probably have to cut him if they decide not to keep him with his current contract.

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 02:11 PM
The Broncos should keep Walker without redoing his contract. That's if they believe he will be healthy at the beginning of the season.

If they don't believe he will be healthy, they might as well forget about trading him and go ahead and cut him. Why would a team trade for a receiver that's been hurt for most of the season when they know he will be cut? What team out there is going to be desperate enough to trade for Walker because they don't want to compete with other teams for him in free agency? I suppose the Broncos will hold on to him as long as they can, in hopes they find a team willing to make a trade, but in the end, they will probably have to cut him if they decide not to keep him with his current contract.

some folks might think like mikey did he is worth a #2 because the chances of a #2 starting or being a big time contributor is low..

There may be another stupid GM out there like mikey was..

topscribe
02-07-2008, 02:15 PM
some folks might think like mikey did he is worth a #2 because the chances of a #2 starting or being a big time contributor is low..

There may be another stupid GM out there like mikey was..

I'm afraid in this case I must be as stupid as Mikey.

Walker is an elite receiver. He was injured. He's not a bust just because he
was injured, unless you can say TD finally busted. If he is healthy again, then
he is worth every bit of that #2 because you won't find better quality than
that at #1. Come to think of it, Javon was a #1, wasn't he?

-----

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 02:20 PM
I'm afraid in this case I must be as stupid as Mikey.

Walker is an elite receiver. He was injured. He's not a bust just because he
was injured, unless you can say TD finally busted. If he is healthy again, then
he is worth every bit of that #2 because you won't find better quality than
that at #1. Come to think of it, Javon was a #1, wasn't he?

-----

Okay, I've already mentioned more than once I recently re-watched the Viking game............I saw alot of things the second and even third time I watched it.............One, was Walker made a catch and nice little run( 5 yards maybe) after the catch. But if you didn't know better, you'd have thought it was Marshall..........He dished out a nice stiff arm and gained several more yards..................I don't think he was anywhere near healthy..................Give him the offseason to heal and I bet he comes back to have a nice 2008 season.

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 02:24 PM
15 @HOU L 31-13 ........... 2 20 10.0 11 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
16 @SD L 23-3......... 2 14 7.0 9 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0 0
17 MIN W 22-19 (OT)...........2 16 8.0 9 0 0 0 0.0 0 0 0

This was Walker's last three games...............He played, had 2 catches in each of the three games, but was NOT healthy.............I still have not heard, from a medical professional, that his knee is trashed and he'll never be the same................Has anyone?

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 02:35 PM
Who cares if Walker can play or not... You can't win the Super Bowl with a bunch of me and I players.... Walker wants to be a #1, not a #2, plus he doesn't like Denver. Let him go.

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 02:38 PM
Who cares if Walker can play or not... You can't win the Super Bowl with a bunch of me and I players.... Walker wants to be a #1, not a #2, plus he doesn't like Denver. Let him go.

That part I do agree with...........But if he has had a change of heart and really is sorry for what he said, I'll give him another chance.....as a fan.

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 02:39 PM
That part I do agree with...........But if he has had a change of heart and really is sorry for what he said, I'll give him another chance.....as a fan.

It isn't the first time he has messed up... he did the same thing to Green Bay. How many chances does he get?

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 02:44 PM
It isn't the first time he has messed up... he did the same thing to Green Bay. How many chances does he get?


I hear ya.............I'm more worried about our cap...........with Walker AND Henry.

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 02:46 PM
I hear ya.............I'm more worried about our cap...........with Walker AND Henry.

Let them go... we got screwed... it happens.. you don't keep bad stock... you donate it to charity or sell it while you can... Same principle.

topscribe
02-07-2008, 02:47 PM
You know, all this stuff about Walker's character and ego . . .

He seemed okay with everybody until one single interview in which he was
goaded and pumped until he said something. He could not have been
thinking all that straight that day.

Think about it: That just happened to occur on the anniversary of the
death of his good friend, who died a bloody death in Javon's arms. On top of
that, the realization was hitting Javon that the Broncos season was
unceremoniously over. He was coming off a season that was a bitter
disappointment to him because of his injury.

A week or so later, Javon appeared in a radio interview and recanted much
of what he said.

He hasn't really said anything since. Why not await his next appearance
before we throw him under the bus?

-----

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 02:49 PM
You know, all this stuff about Walker's character and ego . . .

He seemed okay with everybody until one single interview in which he was
goaded and pumped until he said something. He could not have been
thinking all that straight that day.

Think about it: That just happened to occur on the anniversary of the
death of his good friend, who died a bloody death in Javon's arms. On top of
that, the realization was hitting Javon that the Broncos season was
unceremoniously over. He was coming off a season that was a bitter
disappointment to him because of his injury.

A week or so later, Javon appeared in a radio interview and recanted much
of what he said.

He hasn't really said anything since. Why not await his next appearance
before we throw him under the bus?

-----

He threw himself under the bus when he left Green Bay... he then threw himself under the bus again when he said what he said about Denver and how he doesn't fit.

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 02:51 PM
You know, all this stuff about Walker's character and ego . . .

He seemed okay with everybody until one single interview in which he was
goaded and pumped until he said something. He could not have been
thinking all that straight that day.

Think about it: That just happened to occur on the anniversary of his good
friend who died a bloody death in Javon's arms. On top of that, the
realization was hitting Javon that the Broncos season was unceremoniously
over. He was coming off a season that was a bitter disappointment to him
because of his injury.

A week or so later, Javon appeared in a radio interview and recanted much
of what he said.

He hasn't really said anything since. Why not await his next appearance
before we throw him under the bus?

-----


I think we just need to let fate settle this..............If Walker comes in, healthy and with a good attitude...........than we keep him.............If he is either not healthy or crying about not being the #1 guy, we simply let him go.

WARHORSE
02-07-2008, 02:53 PM
sure a #2 for a great big fast WR that had proved himself the year before.. was IMO a steal.. But mikey should have had some clue about his whineyness and character from the stink he made in GB.

Unlikely we could have found an instant starter with that #2 and most likely if spent on a WR it would have taken 2-4 years to be worth a crap.

That is why we need a dispassionate professional making contracts. Not a HC that can't wait to unwrap in presents on Christmas morning and has to sneak a look.


Im wondering how it was you came to the conclusion that Mike Shanahan drew up that contract. Thats one thing not on his list of things to do.


I think Denvers move to get a proven pro bowl talent was stunning for a 2nd round draft pick, especially looking at what we had going into the season. When youre a team that moves to win THIS year, not next year, then thats the kind of killer moves you try to make.

The only reason we're even talking about this is because Walker got reinjured. No injury, we are stacked. Walker dominated his first year with us unless everyone has forgotten, and hes the same player if he comes back healthy.

As for his attitude, winning will cure that. Denver and Javon are going to sit down and talk about what each wants, and put the chips on the table. Denver will do its best to accomodate Javon, and Javon will do his best to accomodate Denver.

If Denver wants to change his contract they'll ask. I also think that if the medical staff of Denver gives Javon the green light, then the only thing Shanny will talk to Javon about is his attitude and being professional. If the medical staff assures Mike that his knee should be good to go, then Javon is a keeper. If there are issues with the knee, Denver will tell Javon they dont want to go into the season with the doctors telling them there are questions about his knee, and would want Javon to take a pay cut that he can recoup by making it through the entire season, or 15 games or whatever they decide. If Javon says no, he will have to go out into the free agents field and try and get someone to sign him with a bum knee.

If Javons knee proves good, and Javon wants out, then Denver will say go and get what we want in a trade, and its all good.:beer:

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 02:56 PM
I'm afraid in this case I must be as stupid as Mikey.

Walker is an elite receiver. He was injured. He's not a bust just because he
was injured, unless you can say TD finally busted. If he is healthy again, then
he is worth every bit of that #2 because you won't find better quality than
that at #1. Come to think of it, Javon was a #1, wasn't he?

-----

Javon has been a head case since he was in GB.. DO you think that might have raised a red flag with mikey. He was hurt in GB did that raise a red flag..


Mikey locks in on someone and damn the torpedos full steam ahead .. He has been that way forever.. I can name lots of these stupid aquisitions/DAFTS/Trades and FA..

About the only one that has been great was Champ for poorti$$$$

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 02:58 PM
Walker lost more than a few fans when he did what he did. The main thing he lost is trust. I'm one of those fans.... If he wants to earn back our trust he needs to keep his mouth shut and play some darn good gootball. I understand he applogized, "some what".... it is hard to believe when players have public relations assistants that help them say the right things. But, if he wants to make right he will have to prove it on the field or take a pay cut and actually help the Broncos make a run for a championship instead of collecting big paychecks to half ass it on the field.

topscribe
02-07-2008, 02:59 PM
Walker lost more than a few fans when he did what he did. The main thing he lost is trust. I'm one of those fans.... If he wants to earn back our trust he needs to keep his mouth shut and play some darn good gootball. I understand he applogized, "some what".... it is hard to believe when players have public relations assistants that help them say the right things. But, if he wants to make right he will have to prove it on the field or take a pay cut and actually help the Broncos make a run for a championship instead of collecting big paychecks to half ass it on the field.

Fortunately for Javon, the fans are not whom he has to please.

And I have never known him to "half ass" it on the field. Where did that come from, anyway? :confused:

-----

WARHORSE
02-07-2008, 03:09 PM
He threw himself under the bus when he left Green Bay... he then threw himself under the bus again when he said what he said about Denver and how he doesn't fit.


Werent you one of the guys huggin Walkers nads after the first year? :D
We all were unless Im mistaken.

I dont recall anyone sayin much anythin negative about him except me, but that was only that he was a little soft.

Lets not fool ourselves because of Walkers attitude. As topscribe said, this guy is an elite receiver. I remember quite a few big plays by him, and that was with no one else doing much on the other side.

If his knee is good to go, Javon knows hes a number one. I think the fact that he said he made a mistake when he said those things after the Minnesota game are not getting much credence, which isnt fair. The man is admitting he spoke out of frustration, and said sorry. We want
wide receivers who arent happy with being number 2, dont we? I know I do. Outside of that though, Javon is what he is. I think the Broncos will handle the situation accordingly, and the Javon situation is gonna be fine.

I want the dude on our team. He means MISMATCHES for our offense, and thats what this game is about. If healthy, him and Brandon are gonna have a field day, especially if our RB situation becomes what we need it to be. With Javon healthy, Brandon, Stokely, Scheff and a dominate running attack with big armed Cutler throwin the ball with a year and a half under his belt, I can only see good things for the Broncos.

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 03:12 PM
Here we go... Just like Henry... everyone has their Orange tinted sun glasses on.... This ought to be a fun year.

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 03:12 PM
Werent you one of the guys huggin Walkers nads after the first year? :D
We all were unless Im mistaken.

I dont recall anyone sayin much anythin negative about him except me, but that was only that he was a little soft.

Lets not fool ourselves because of Walkers attitude. As topscribe said, this guy is an elite receiver. I remember quite a few big plays by him, and that was with no one else doing much on the other side.

If his knee is good to go, Javon knows hes a number one. I think the fact that he said he made a mistake when he said those things after the Minnesota game are not getting much credence, which isnt fair. The man is admitting he spoke out of frustration, and said sorry. We want
wide receivers who arent happy with being number 2, dont we? I know I do. Outside of that though, Javon is what he is. I think the Broncos will handle the situation accordingly, and the Javon situation is gonna be fine.

I want the dude on our team. He means MISMATCHES for our offense, and thats what this game is about. If healthy, him and Brandon are gonna have a field day, especially if our RB situation becomes what we need it to be. With Javon healthy, Brandon, Stokely, Scheff and a dominate running attack with big armed Cutler throwin the ball with a year and a half under his belt, I can only see good things for the Broncos.

providing the oline grows up and does not get Jay killed..

WARHORSE
02-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Javon has been a head case since he was in GB.. DO you think that might have raised a red flag with mikey. He was hurt in GB did that raise a red flag..


Mikey locks in on someone and damn the torpedos full steam ahead .. He has been that way forever.. I can name lots of these stupid aquisitions/DAFTS/Trades and FA..

About the only one that has been great was Champ for poorti$$$$


Been that way forever? We had one draft pick when Shanny came in.

Trevor Pryce.

Then he brought in McCaffrey, Romo, Neil Smith, Alfred Williams just to name a few. Then he brought with him the most dominant running attack in the entire league since hes been at our helm.

Drafted TD, and turned Shannon Sharpe loose on the league.

Followed by the two superbowl rings and Lombardi's that now adorn my fingers and my mantle.


Hes been full speed ahead alright.:cool:



Bowlen knows what hes doin..........:coffee:

topscribe
02-07-2008, 03:18 PM
Here we go... Just like Henry... everyone has their Orange tinted sun glasses on.... This ought to be a fun year.

I don't know why you say that. I don't see anyone here not telling it like it is.
That's the deal: It is what it is. Unless your best friend died a bloody death in
your arms, and you had to celebrate the first anniversary of that event, I
don't believe you're in a position to judge Javon's emotions on the day the
press was incessantly, unmercifully pumping him for comments, when he
wasn't thinking straight.

I think it would be more appropriate for the coaches to judge his attitude, in a
one-on-one situation, in the privacy of their offices. If they're satisfied, I am,
too . . . for now.

A healthy Javon is the "best of the rest," after Moss and T.O. They took
their attitudes and helped their respective offenses to the top of the league.
And Javon isn't in their league when it comes to attitude . . .

-----

BOSSHOGG30
02-07-2008, 03:19 PM
I don't know why you say that. I don't see anyone here not telling it like it is.
That's the deal: It is what it is. Unless your best friend died a bloody death in
your arms, and you had to celebrate the first anniversary of that event, I
don't believe you're in a position to judge Javon's emotions on the day the
press was incessantly, unmercifully pumping him for comments, when he
wasn't thinking straight.

I think it would be more appropriate for the coaches to judge his attitude, in a
one-on-one situation, in the privacy of their offices. If they're satisfied, I am,
too . . . for now.

A healthy Javon is the "best of the rest," after Moss and T.O. They took
their attitudes and helped their respective offenses to the top of the league.
And Javon isn't in their league when it comes to attitude . . .

-----


Shows how much you know about me

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 03:28 PM
I don't know why you say that. I don't see anyone here not telling it like it is.
That's the deal: It is what it is. Unless your best friend died a bloody death in
your arms, and you had to celebrate the first anniversary of that event, I
don't believe you're in a position to judge Javon's emotions on the day the
press was incessantly, unmercifully pumping him for comments, when he
wasn't thinking straight.

I think it would be more appropriate for the coaches to judge his attitude, in a
one-on-one situation, in the privacy of their offices. If they're satisfied, I am,
too . . . for now.

A healthy Javon is the "best of the rest," after Moss and T.O. They took
their attitudes and helped their respective offenses to the top of the league.
And Javon isn't in their league when it comes to attitude . . .

-----


Well said. :salute:

topscribe
02-07-2008, 03:29 PM
Shows how much you know about me

Is there something I should know about you?

-----

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 03:31 PM
I usually give people a chance to step back and see what they did, or said...............atleast he somewhat realized what he did say and apologized.....sort of. ............I'm not worried all that much about Walker. I EXPECT him to come in and play well................Hopefully, he puts all this behind him and does not repeat it.

HolyDiver
02-07-2008, 03:33 PM
I see where Boss is coming from though..............I was all for Walker being shipped out of town after his remarks...............But I pretty much see this working itself out.

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 03:40 PM
Been that way forever? We had one draft pick when Shanny came in.

Trevor Pryce.

Then he brought in McCaffrey, Romo, Neil Smith, Alfred Williams just to name a few. Then he brought with him the most dominant running attack in the entire league since hes been at our helm.

Drafted TD, and turned Shannon Sharpe loose on the league.

Followed by the two superbowl rings and Lombardi's that now adorn my fingers and my mantle.


Hes been full speed ahead alright.:cool:



Bowlen knows what hes doin..........:coffee:


Yes outside of price and a couple of LBs, add poortis to that till 2006 his day one choices have sucked..

mikey got real luck on day two with all the others, did he bring in some great FA's for the super bowl run sure, but he has been a shadow of himself since..

Sharpe and Rod were already here so do not give him credit for them.

A great coach who has severely hurt this team with shoddy DAFTING overall from 1999 through 2005, spending way to much for marginal FA.

Does Pat really know what he has?

I think he stated that loud and clear after the season within his proclamation that FA would be far and few and the new direction of this club would be building via the draft..

Cutler6MVP
02-07-2008, 03:42 PM
I stated this before over at the freak, and ill do it here again for all of you....

Javon never said he wanted to leave, he said it would be better off if he was a #1 elsewhere. He said he loves it here and is willing to stay here, and he would not complain if he is still here, and that business is business.

Now he retracted his statement, which I knew he would, which means shanny told him hell give him every chance to beat out Marshall for the #1 spot(the way it should be). Javon was just very frustrated with the way the season went and how his season went. If Javon comes back healthy, he will be catching balls, which means hell be happy. There is no reason to trade him, as no one will probably give much for him. Unless you are blown away with a proposal, we should keep him.

JONtheBRONCO
02-07-2008, 04:26 PM
Forget Walker. I don't want a cry baby on the team. He's openly said twice, the Broncos aren't for him. His good friend Sharper said the same thing. He did the SAME thing in Green Bay... You are who you are, Walker hasn't changed one bit. The only time he's smiling is when he has the damn ball in his hands. Do people really want this jerk in the locker room who's complained like a little girl for the past 2 months? He'd be a cancer we don't need.

Right now the Broncos need leaders, they don't need anymore distractions. God knows how many we've had the past 2 years. This isn't about proving a point, and it shouldn't be about pride, it's about getting this P.O.S. off the team as soon as possible so we can move on. Let him cry somewhere else, just not in a Broncos uniform.

WARHORSE
02-07-2008, 04:27 PM
Yes outside of price and a couple of LBs, add poortis to that till 2006 his day one choices have sucked..

mikey got real luck on day two with all the others, did he bring in some great FA's for the super bowl run sure, but he has been a shadow of himself since..

Sharpe and Rod were already here so do not give him credit for them.

A great coach who has severely hurt this team with shoddy DAFTING overall from 1999 through 2005, spending way to much for marginal FA.

Does Pat really know what he has?

I think he stated that loud and clear after the season within his proclamation that FA would be far and few and the new direction of this club would be building via the draft..

Well I noticed how you failed to mention the DAFTING(?);) over the past couple of years. You can erase the draft from 2005, cause Darrent, Foxwoth were great picks at their prospective selections, and Paymah is paying off now.

Not to mention the fact that we used the picks received from Washington that year to move up and draft JAY CUTLER, and get Javon Walker, AND Brandon Marshall. That was a coup.

We had how many starters did we have in 2007 in the same positions from 2006? Think that had anything to do with our lack of success? Our team next year is gonna be better than people think.

Mike Shanahan is a hell of a coach. As for him not being responsible for Sharpe? Mike Shanahan is very responsible for the TE Sharpe became.
Rod Smith? He made himself, and was picked up in FAgency. He became the player he is under Shannys tutelege.

If you look at the whole package, Shanahan is a winner.

Plain and simple. Purely factual.

Luck on day two? You slant your argument to support your view.

Luck on day two, but lack of skill on day one.:confused:

broncofanatic1987
02-07-2008, 08:47 PM
Who cares if Walker can play or not... You can't win the Super Bowl with a bunch of me and I players.... Walker wants to be a #1, not a #2, plus he doesn't like Denver. Let him go.

Well, if he's healthy, it's easy for him to be a #1 because when he's healthy, he's the best receiver on the team. That was pretty evident in the first two games this season. He can do everything Marshall can do and more. Javon is a deep threat. Marshall is not. Marshall has already said that he has to work harder at getting off the line and going deep. Walker can already do that, if he's healthy.

Lonestar
02-07-2008, 09:01 PM
Well I noticed how you failed to mention the DAFTING(?);) over the past couple of years. You can erase the draft from 2005, cause Darrent, Foxwoth were great picks at their prospective selections, and Paymah is paying off now.

Not to mention the fact that we used the picks received from Washington that year to move up and draft JAY CUTLER, and get Javon Walker, AND Brandon Marshall. That was a coup.

We had how many starters did we have in 2007 in the same positions from 2006? Think that had anything to do with our lack of success? Our team next year is gonna be better than people think.

Mike Shanahan is a hell of a coach. As for him not being responsible for Sharpe? Mike Shanahan is very responsible for the TE Sharpe became.
Rod Smith? He made himself, and was picked up in FAgency. He became the player he is under Shannys tutelege.

If you look at the whole package, Shanahan is a winner.

Plain and simple. Purely factual.

Luck on day two? You slant your argument to support your view.

Luck on day two, but lack of skill on day one.:confused:

Just think of how much better we could have been had he not flushed the 1999-2005 DAFTS down the toilet..

He is a hell of a coach but has sucked making player choices..

You do not want to get me started on all of his ****ups on draft day..

He needs to get over the ego thingy and let Boss or G-man draft his players.. for Gods sake they seem to have a better handle on player potential than he does..

That is pretty extreme but those teams that are 12+ wind every year are there because for the most part they have great GM and have built their teams via the draft. They are not afraid to let a blue chipper go every so often because they have another one right behind them.

I know everyone here hate NE but look at a how good they have been for how long. They do not DAFT Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebroken type players..
Mikey does, his last two drafts have been pretty good, is that the law of averages catching up with him or was someone whispering in his ear on most of these choices..

Now that Bates and Dinger are gone, I shudder to think what this years DAFT will be.

WARHORSE
02-08-2008, 09:34 AM
Contract talk
Drew Rosenhaus, the agent for restricted free agent Chris Myers and unrestricted free agent Ebenezer Ekuban, said he has been in contact with the Broncos and hopes to work out deals.
Myers, a versatile offensive lineman who started the entire season at left guard and center, could sign a long-term deal before free agency begins Feb. 29. Rosenhaus said Ekuban is completely healthy after suffering a ruptured Achilles in the preseason. "The Broncos want him back and we hope something works out," Rosenhaus said of the Ekuban talks. Kenard McGuire, the agent for receiver Javon Walker, said he has not been in contact with the team. Walker is expected to be traded or cut within the next month.

Scarface
02-08-2008, 09:43 AM
I stated this before over at the freak, and ill do it here again for all of you....

Javon never said he wanted to leave, he said it would be better off if he was a #1 elsewhere. He said he loves it here and is willing to stay here, and he would not complain if he is still here, and that business is business.

Now he retracted his statement, which I knew he would, which means shanny told him hell give him every chance to beat out Marshall for the #1 spot(the way it should be). Javon was just very frustrated with the way the season went and how his season went. If Javon comes back healthy, he will be catching balls, which means hell be happy. There is no reason to trade him, as no one will probably give much for him. Unless you are blown away with a proposal, we should keep him.

And then he had his buddy Darren Sharper speak for him because he's not man enough to stand behind his original comments.

Walker's done in Denver. Just pay attention to what Bowlen and Shanahan have been saying.

WARHORSE
02-08-2008, 10:06 AM
Just think of how much better we could have been had he not flushed the 1999-2005 DAFTS down the toilet..

He is a hell of a coach but has sucked making player choices..

You do not want to get me started on all of his ****ups on draft day..

He needs to get over the ego thingy and let Boss or G-man draft his players.. for Gods sake they seem to have a better handle on player potential than he does..

That is pretty extreme but those teams that are 12+ wind every year are there because for the most part they have great GM and have built their teams via the draft. They are not afraid to let a blue chipper go every so often because they have another one right behind them.

I know everyone here hate NE but look at a how good they have been for how long. They do not DAFT Marcus Nash, Willie Middlebroken type players..
Mikey does, his last two drafts have been pretty good, is that the law of averages catching up with him or was someone whispering in his ear on most of these choices..

Now that Bates and Dinger are gone, I shudder to think what this years DAFT will be.


1999-Al Wilson, Lenny Friedman, Montae Reagor, Desmond Clark, Olandis Gary

2000-Deltha Oneal, Ian Gold, Kennoy Kennedy, Cooper Carlisle, Mike Anderson

2001-Reggie Hayward, Ben Hamilton, Nick Harris

2002- Ashlie Lelie, Clinton Portis, Sam Brandon, Jeb Putzier, Monsanto Pope

2003-DJ Williams, bust

2004- Bust

2005-Darrent Williams, Karl Paymah, Foxworth, Chris Myers, Paul Ernster

2006-Jay Cutler, Javon Walker(aquired for 2), Tony Scheffler, Brandon Marshall, Elvis Dumerville, Dominique Hixon, Chris Kuper, Greg Eslinger

2007-Moss, Crowder, Harris, Thomas


I dont see these years as busts.


Just think of how much better we would have been........not serious thinking.

Go back in those drafts and tell us who we should have drafted if you really want to make your point.

Try to remember who we had, and what we needed as well.

Good luck.

WARHORSE
02-08-2008, 10:08 AM
Lets start with 1999

4 rounds for this one

Who would you have drafted for the Broncos?


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1999&round=round1


You can use this site to go through the drafts you stated, and can point out who you would have drafted in each scenario. Post your selections here for us to see.

As I said, good luck.

BTW, take a look at who all the other smart teams were drafting while youre at it.

HolyDiver
02-08-2008, 11:09 AM
And then he had his buddy Darren Sharper speak for him because he's not man enough to stand behind his original comments.

Walker's done in Denver. Just pay attention to what Bowlen and Shanahan have been saying.


I just hope we cann get something for him..............Even a 3rd round pick would be nice.

pnbronco
02-08-2008, 11:22 AM
Walker has real talent. If he really is healthy I would hate to see him use it somewhere else because he had a melt down at the end of a horrible year for him.

BOSSHOGG30
02-08-2008, 11:36 AM
Makes you wonder if they are trading him because of his injury... like they did Al Wilson. Wonder if he can pass a physical though?

MHCBill
02-08-2008, 11:45 AM
Walker is done here.

Anyone that feels differently are you willing to bet $100 on it?

I am.

The #1 is Brandon Marshall and we need to find a #2 that is comfortable enough with himself that he doesn't have to be a prima-donna.

Hard to find in this day and age of NFL wide receivers, but can be done.

I would rather have a less talented non-injured receiver than Javon Walker at this point.

It's a shame... a "team player" Javon with this offense would have been great. Assuming he'd stay healthy. Neither of these aspects are 100% locks so now Javon must go.

Mike and Pat already know this and anyone who thinks otherwise is an idiot.

BOSSHOGG30
02-08-2008, 11:47 AM
If Walker isn't gone I would be surprised... You just can't have me and I players on a team... it doesn't work out.

turftoad
02-08-2008, 11:49 AM
Makes you wonder if they are trading him because of his injury... like they did Al Wilson. Wonder if he can pass a physical though?

I haven't seen anything from the Broncos Brass that says they are for sure trading him.
If he is healthy, I would love to see him stick around. We'd have to sign one hell of a free agent to replace him which there aren't any better than Walker out there.
I don't feel comfortable with a rookie as it usually (there are the exceptions but whos to say we get that guy) takes three years for a WR to pan out.
Stokley is best served as a slot guy.
Even with Walker we are thin at WR.

MHCBill
02-08-2008, 11:50 AM
No one is suggesting we will find someone as talented as Walker when he's healthy.

We will take a step back in "talent", but a guy that works hard, doens't have an ego, and stays healthy makes up a lot for a lack of "talent".

turftoad
02-08-2008, 11:52 AM
No one is suggesting we will find someone as talented as Walker when he's healthy.

We will take a step back in "talent", but a guy that works hard, doens't have an ego, and stays healthy makes up a lot for a lack of "talent".

Agreed....... now Bill, if Walker is gone, I think you and I are on the same page as going after Bryant Johnson. I think he'd be the best fit.

DenBronx
02-08-2008, 12:30 PM
If Walker isn't gone I would be surprised... You just can't have me and I players on a team... it doesn't work out.

True but, the me and I players always end up somewhere. The me and I type players (like Portis, Owens, Moss, CJ, ect.) usually start the crying game because A.) They feel they are under paid. B.) They are not being utilized and feel they will lose the spot light or C.) They feel their current team will not have a good chance at getting to the playoffs. Then you weigh in how vital a guy like that could be to an offense. Moss had 23 TD's and near 1500 yards receiving. Portis ran for over 1200 yards and 11 TD's. CJ had 1440 receiving yards. Owens had 1355 yards and 15 TD's. 3 out of 4 of those players helped get their teams to the playoffs. 3 out of 4 are happy because all A,B,C are happening. The one guy that is crying is CJ and that's because A,B and C is NOT happening.

Walker is not the exception to the rule here. I think he did get injured but I think he will come back healthy. The impact he makes as a WR is too vital to lose. His cry baby ways does get pretty annoying but I say he is worth the risk. Walker seems more selfishly concerned about losing the #1 to BMarsh. I think if we don't harras him with a new contract negotiation then he might actually suck it up and try and win back his #1 job. If he is traded then fine but we simply can not afford to cut this guy.

MHCBill
02-08-2008, 12:31 PM
Sorry, but doesn't make it right.

Truly makes you appreciate Rod Smith.

DenBronx
02-08-2008, 12:39 PM
Sorry, but doesn't make it right.

Truly makes you appreciate Rod Smith.

I hope you realize that a Rod Smith nowdays is a rare commodity. WR's and RB's in todays generation only care about themselves. At least the majority seem to. I don't think it makes it right but sadly that's how it is.

Lonestar
02-08-2008, 02:00 PM
Lets start with 1999

4 rounds for this one

Who would you have drafted for the Broncos?


http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?season=1999&round=round1


You can use this site to go through the drafts you stated, and can point out who you would have drafted in each scenario. Post your selections here for us to see.

As I said, good luck.

BTW, take a look at who all the other smart teams were drafting while youre at it.

I think you forgot the caveat I stated as outside of LB's and Poortis and day one picks as a general rule have sucked..
denver picks
quality starters for other teams
Let look at this 1999 draft
We took Al wilson Hmm LB so that does not count as a total waste..
But a MLB was not the most important need at that moment A great choice for sure but one we could have lived without.
32 Kevin Johnson WR Syracuse Cleveland Browns
33 Charles Fisher CB West Virginia Cincinnati Bengals
34 Chris Terry T Georgia Carolina Panthers
35 Barry Gardner OLB Northwestern Philadelphia Eagles
36 Mike Peterson OLB Florida Indianapolis Colts
37 Jon Jansen T Michigan Washington Redskins
38 Mike Rucker DE Nebraska Carolina Panthers
39 J.J. Johnson RB Mississippi State Miami Dolphins
40 Tony Bryant DE Florida State Oakland Raiders
41 Dre' Bly CB North Carolina St. Louis Rams
42 Reggie Kelly TE Mississippi State Atlanta Falcons
43 Rob Konrad FB Syracuse Miami Dolphins
44 Jimmy Kleinsasser FB North Dakota Minnesota Vikings
45 Rahim Abdullah OLB Clemson Cleveland Browns
46 Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State New England Patriots
47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt Green Bay Packers
48 Russell Davis DE North Carolina Chicago Bears
49 Joe Montgomery RB Ohio State New York Giants
50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers
51 Johnny Rutledge LB Florida Arizona Cardinals
52 John Thornton DT West Virginia Tennessee Titans
53 Peerless Price WR Tennessee Buffalo Bills
took 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Denver Broncos
never could crack the line up in four years then I think traded could have been a UFA but seems to me we got something in return, to INDY where he played for 3-4 years as a starter DT.

took 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke Denver Broncos could have had anyone cause he never lasted.
took 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois Denver Broncos total waste

We could have had the following players who for the most part played many years for the teams that drafted them mostly as starters. Something all of the above did not do for us.
73 Joey Porter LB Colorado State Pittsburgh Steelers
78 Marty Booker WR Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
85 Dat Nguyen LB Texas A&M Dallas Cowboys
87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis Green Bay Packers
89 Chike Okeafor LB Purdue San Francisco 49ers
105 Brandon Stokley WR Louisiana-Lafayette Baltimore Ravens
106 Warrick Holdman LB Texas A&M Chicago Bears
I do not have alot of time to play with this through 17Feb, but would love to debunk your thoughts about mikey being a great Draft guru..

I'm not going to analze other teams cause I frankly DO NOT CARE what they do or have done you want to do so have a ball.

I care about what mikey has wasted on choices over the years.. and I mean total wastes..



********************************
Let me list a few

total/limted wastes IMO
LB's so do not count against my comments

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State great KR average CB
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State ??????? may bloom
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland sphomore/junior slump not a starter
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)

2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State some will dispute this
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Screwed the pooch by not resigning him earlier
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California total head case
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech noted above
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia 5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

Now some of these players did indeed start for us one or two were pretty good but for the most part did not stand the test of time. a starter for more than there initial contract.. Then like Reggie were not resigned while they were cheap but allowed to become UFA, where we were afraid to make a decision.

poorti$$$ a head case day one that turned out good and a great trade bait.

price who could have been stunning if motivated each and every game. Could have been a dominating player if he would have had another DL guy or two worth a damn around him.. a great player when he was not worried about his recording company, completely overpaid in a stupid bloated contract that required him being called out a half a dozen times for not showing up..

Not many good picks outside of day one LBs and later round RB's and left over OLINE types..

Again I do not care what mistake other team have made..

IMO the folks taken on day one through about pick 125 or so should be solid starters on most teams after all they as a general rule the top 2 maybe to maybe 4 players at their positions coming out of college.

Mikey has laser looked in on many of these clowns and taken some folks in the first or second a couple of rounds earlier than most if not all the draft gurus thought they were worth..

Let me add here that the last two drafts were good ones SO FAR. But I have zero illusions that mikey was totally responsible for those picks I think that Dinger and Bates had huge inputs on them.. Will we revert this year to hearing who the hell is that on day one again or will we get good to great picks this year?

pnbronco
02-08-2008, 02:29 PM
I hope you realize that a Rod Smith nowdays is a rare commodity. WR's and RB's in todays generation only care about themselves. At least the majority seem to. I don't think it makes it right but sadly that's how it is.

Rod and Mac were totally the exceptions. Most WR and RB are very self centered. Even as nice as TD started once he got the MVP he really changed. If we cut Walker don't we take a major hit on the cap?

MHCBill
02-08-2008, 02:33 PM
Even as nice as TD started once he got the MVP he really changed.

How does one spell clueless?

MHCBill
02-08-2008, 02:38 PM
I hope you realize that a Rod Smith nowdays is a rare commodity. WR's and RB's in todays generation only care about themselves. At least the majority seem to. I don't think it makes it right but sadly that's how it is.I think a more accurate statement is more receivers in this generation are me first players. That does not mean however, that we should employ them.

I would take a less "talented" player that makes up for it as a hard-worker, team player, and has no health issues instead of these pieces of sh!t.

Here is a small list of great wide receivers that you never hear this kind of crap coming from.

Anquan Boldin
Larry Fitzgerald
Marvin Harrison
Torry Holt
Hines Ward
Braylon Edwards
Santana Moss
Wes Welker
Donald Driver
Andre Johnson



The other list...

Chad Johnson
Terrell Owens
Javon Walker
Plexico Burress
Randy Moss


As you can see, there are great players that don't act like azzholes and there are great players that do. Give me the non-azzholes any day of the week.

BOSSHOGG30
02-08-2008, 02:38 PM
Look at some of the me and I players in the league and tell me how many Super Bowls they have....

Terrell Owens?
Shockey? (might have a ring, but he wasn't the reason why... team played better without him)
Chad Johnson?
Randy Moss?
Larry Johnson?
Kellen Winslow?
Javon Walker?

The list goes on and on... if you are crying about money, crying to the media, or complaining about not getting enough balls thrown your way, then you aren't focused on football! Sure you might be a good player, but it doesn't fit well with the team... and teams win championships... not one player.

DenBronx
02-08-2008, 04:23 PM
Look at some of the me and I players in the league and tell me how many Super Bowls they have....

Terrell Owens?
Shockey? (might have a ring, but he wasn't the reason why... team played better without him)
Chad Johnson?
Randy Moss?
Larry Johnson?
Kellen Winslow?
Javon Walker?

The list goes on and on... if you are crying about money, crying to the media, or complaining about not getting enough balls thrown your way, then you aren't focused on football! Sure you might be a good player, but it doesn't fit well with the team... and teams win championships... not one player.


agree with you that teams win championships but,

your only focusing on big name players AND your not paying attention to defensive players. you can't possibly say strahan wasn't a me player at the beggining of the season. plaxico??? you can't possibly say that freeney wouldnt have sat out if he didnt feel the colts would resign him last year. deon branch(didnt he leave to get more money)??? and although most of those guys you listed don't have a ring alot still have at least helped thier teams go deep into the playoffs and at least GET to the superbowl. owens was a big reason the eagles were even in the game when he went and moss actually almost sealed the deal this year. so dont say these guys are not factors....i'm not saying their good for the locker room and will have a tea party with their quarter backs. i'm saying they do help their teams get to the next level.

pnbronco
02-08-2008, 04:31 PM
How does one spell clueless?

I not really sure what you mean by this. Being lucky enough to go to camp every year when it was in Greeley I got to meet TD, Rod and Mac. I talked to them every year before and after they won the Super Bowl. Rod and Mac stayed the same, TD did not, just my personal observation. I will wait to see what happens with Walker an then go on from there.

WARHORSE
02-08-2008, 06:59 PM
I think you forgot the caveat I stated as outside of LB's and Poortis and day one picks as a general rule have sucked..
denver picks
quality starters for other teams
Let look at this 1999 draft
We took Al wilson Hmm LB so that does not count as a total waste..
But a MLB was not the most important need at that moment A great choice for sure but one we could have lived without.
32 Kevin Johnson WR Syracuse Cleveland Browns
33 Charles Fisher CB West Virginia Cincinnati Bengals
34 Chris Terry T Georgia Carolina Panthers
35 Barry Gardner OLB Northwestern Philadelphia Eagles
36 Mike Peterson OLB Florida Indianapolis Colts
37 Jon Jansen T Michigan Washington Redskins
38 Mike Rucker DE Nebraska Carolina Panthers
39 J.J. Johnson RB Mississippi State Miami Dolphins
40 Tony Bryant DE Florida State Oakland Raiders
41 Dre' Bly CB North Carolina St. Louis Rams
42 Reggie Kelly TE Mississippi State Atlanta Falcons
43 Rob Konrad FB Syracuse Miami Dolphins
44 Jimmy Kleinsasser FB North Dakota Minnesota Vikings
45 Rahim Abdullah OLB Clemson Cleveland Browns
46 Kevin Faulk RB Louisiana State New England Patriots
47 Fred Vinson CB Vanderbilt Green Bay Packers
48 Russell Davis DE North Carolina Chicago Bears
49 Joe Montgomery RB Ohio State New York Giants
50 Shaun King QB Tulane Tampa Bay Buccaneers
51 Johnny Rutledge LB Florida Arizona Cardinals
52 John Thornton DT West Virginia Tennessee Titans
53 Peerless Price WR Tennessee Buffalo Bills
took 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech Denver Broncos
never could crack the line up in four years then I think traded could have been a UFA but seems to me we got something in return, to INDY where he played for 3-4 years as a starter DT.

took 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke Denver Broncos could have had anyone cause he never lasted.
took 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois Denver Broncos total waste

We could have had the following players who for the most part played many years for the teams that drafted them mostly as starters. Something all of the above did not do for us.
73 Joey Porter LB Colorado State Pittsburgh Steelers
78 Marty Booker WR Louisiana-Monroe Chicago Bears
85 Dat Nguyen LB Texas A&M Dallas Cowboys
87 Mike McKenzie CB Memphis Green Bay Packers
89 Chike Okeafor LB Purdue San Francisco 49ers
105 Brandon Stokley WR Louisiana-Lafayette Baltimore Ravens
106 Warrick Holdman LB Texas A&M Chicago Bears
I do not have alot of time to play with this through 17Feb, but would love to debunk your thoughts about mikey being a great Draft guru..

I'm not going to analze other teams cause I frankly DO NOT CARE what they do or have done you want to do so have a ball.

I care about what mikey has wasted on choices over the years.. and I mean total wastes..



********************************
Let me list a few

total/limted wastes IMO
LB's so do not count against my comments

2005 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
2 56 Darrent Williams CB Oklahoma State great KR average CB
3 76 Karl Paymah DB Washington State ??????? may bloom
3 97 Domonique Foxworth CB Maryland sphomore/junior slump not a starter
3 101 Maurice Clarett -- Ohio State
6 200 Chris Myers G Miami (Fla.)
7 239 Paul Ernster K Northern Arizona

2004 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 17 D.J. Williams OLB Miami (Fla.)

2 41 Tatum Bell RB Oklahoma State some will dispute this
2 54 Darius Watts WR Marshall
3 85 Jeremy LeSueur CB Michigan
5 152 Jeff Shoate CB San Diego State
6 171 Triandos Luke WR Alabama
6 190 Josh Sewell -- Nebraska
7 225 Matt Mauck QB Louisiana State
7 247 Brandon Miree RB Pittsburgh
7 250 Bradlee Van Pelt QB Colorado State

2003 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 20 George Foster T Georgia
2 51 Terry Pierce LB Kansas State
4 108 Quentin Griffin RB Oklahoma
4 114 Nick Eason DT Clemson
4 128 Bryant McNeal DE Clemson
5 157 Ben Claxton C Mississippi
5 158 Adrian Madise WR Texas Christian
6 194 Aaron Hunt -- Texas Tech
7 227 Clint Mitchell DE Florida
7 235 Ahmaad Galloway RB Alabama

2002 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 19 Ashley Lelie WR Hawaii
2 51 Clinton Portis RB Miami (Fla.)
3 96 Dorsett Davis DT Mississippi State
4 131 Sam Brandon DB Nevada-Las Vegas
5 144 Herb Haygood WR Michigan State
6 191 Jeb Putzier TE Boise State
7 228 Chris Young DB Georgia Tech
7 231 Monsanto Pope DT Virginia

2001 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 24 Willie Middlebrooks CB Minnesota
2 51 Paul Toviessi DE Marshall
3 87 Reggie Hayward DE Screwed the pooch by not resigning him earlier
4 113 Ben Hamilton C Minnesota
4 120 Nick Harris P California
6 190 Kevin Kasper WR Iowa

2000 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 Deltha O'Neal CB California total head case
2 40 Ian Gold LB Michigan
2 45 Kenoy Kennedy SAF Arkansas
3 70 Chris Cole WR Texas A&M
4 101 Jerry Johnson DT Florida State
4 112 Cooper Carlisle G Florida
5 154 Muneer Moore WR Richmond
6 189 Mike Anderson RB Utah
7 214 Jarious Jackson QB Notre Dame
7 246 Leroy Fields -- Jackson State

1999 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 31 Al Wilson MLB Tennessee
2 58 Montae Reagor DE Texas Tech noted above
2 61 Lennie Friedman C Duke
3 67 Chris Watson CB Eastern Illinois
3 93 Travis McGriff WR Florida
4 127 Olandis Gary RB Georgia 5 158 David Bowens LB Western Illinois
5 167 Darwin Brown DB Texas Tech
6 179 Desmond Clark TE Wake Forest
6 204 Chad Plummer WR Cincinnati
7 218 Billy Miller WR USC
7 238 Justin Swift TE Kansas State

1998 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 30 Marcus Nash WR Tennessee
2 61 Eric Brown SS Mississippi State
3 91 Brian Griese QB Michigan
4 122 Curtis Alexander -- Alabama
5 153 Chris Howard RB Michigan
7 200 Trey Teague T Tennessee
7 219 Nate Wayne LB Mississippi

1997 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 28 Trevor Pryce DT Clemson
3 67 Dan Neil G Texas
4 124 Cory Gilliard DB Ball State

1996 - Denver Broncos
Rd Sel # Player Position School
1 15 John Mobley OLB Kutztown
2 44 Tory James DB Louisiana State
3 65 Detron Smith RB Texas A&M
3 78 Mark Campbell DT Florida
4 100 Jeff Lewis QB Northern Arizona
4 122 Darrius Johnson DB Oklahoma
5 159 Patrick Jeffers WR Virginia
6 181 Tony Veland DB Nebraska
7 213 Leslie Ratliffe -- Tennessee
7 226 Chris Banks G Kansas
7 235 L.T. Levine -- Kansas
7 236 Brian Gragert -- Wyoming

Now some of these players did indeed start for us one or two were pretty good but for the most part did not stand the test of time. a starter for more than there initial contract.. Then like Reggie were not resigned while they were cheap but allowed to become UFA, where we were afraid to make a decision.

poorti$$$ a head case day one that turned out good and a great trade bait.

price who could have been stunning if motivated each and every game. Could have been a dominating player if he would have had another DL guy or two worth a damn around him.. a great player when he was not worried about his recording company, completely overpaid in a stupid bloated contract that required him being called out a half a dozen times for not showing up..

Not many good picks outside of day one LBs and later round RB's and left over OLINE types..

Again I do not care what mistake other team have made..

IMO the folks taken on day one through about pick 125 or so should be solid starters on most teams after all they as a general rule the top 2 maybe to maybe 4 players at their positions coming out of college.

Mikey has laser looked in on many of these clowns and taken some folks in the first or second a couple of rounds earlier than most if not all the draft gurus thought they were worth..

Let me add here that the last two drafts were good ones SO FAR. But I have zero illusions that mikey was totally responsible for those picks I think that Dinger and Bates had huge inputs on them.. Will we revert this year to hearing who the hell is that on day one again or will we get good to great picks this year?


You didnt do what I asked. And I understand, theres a reason for that.

You didnt say who you would have DAFTED if you were the Denver Broncos.

Hindsight is easy isnt it? This should be as easy as going back and finding all the players we missed shouldnt it?

Shouldnt matter who we had, and didnt have.......right?


You would look foolish going back and trying to tell everyone who we should have drafted. Even knowing in hindsight who panned out and didnt, for you to go back would only prove what is already known: There are a LOT of factors that go into making a draft selection, and there are NO guarantees. Im just glad we got a coach who can coach players above their ability.


Mike Shanahan is going to be the Broncos coach, for as LOOOOONG as he wants to be.

Thats a direct quote from Pat Bowlen, owner of the Broncos.

And he knows what he has, even if some people dont. He could have brought a GM in here long ago.

WARHORSE
02-08-2008, 07:03 PM
BTW. Funny how Portis has come no where NEAR the production in Washington that he had here isnt it?

You could say, depending on how you look at it, that because of Mike Shanahans awesome job of coaching, he turned a decent second round draft pick into another decent back, and a 15 year plus pro bowl cornerback. All due to Shanahan.

15 years cause thats how many years Champ will go to the pro bowl.

Lonestar
02-08-2008, 11:14 PM
You didnt do what I asked. And I understand, theres a reason for that.

You didnt say who you would have DAFTED if you were the Denver Broncos.

Hindsight is easy isnt it? This should be as easy as going back and finding all the players we missed shouldnt it?

Shouldnt matter who we had, and didnt have.......right?


You would look foolish going back and trying to tell everyone who we should have drafted. Even knowing in hindsight who panned out and didnt, for you to go back would only prove what is already known: There are a LOT of factors that go into making a draft selection, and there are NO guarantees. Im just glad we got a coach who can coach players above their ability.


Mike Shanahan is going to be the Broncos coach, for as LOOOOONG as he wants to be.

Thats a direct quote from Pat Bowlen, owner of the Broncos.

And he knows what he has, even if some people dont. He could have brought a GM in here long ago.

Sorry But I guess I misunderstood what you asked me to do.

I have done that a bunch of times on BM, and believe it or not it worked pretty good.. I do not have the time nor patience to go though several thousand posts over there to find it..

Mostly because I never plan on gracing that forum again.. And the next week or so I have alot on my plate..

It does not take a rocket scientist to see how many quality players mikey left on the table just in that draft.. How they would have fit into our system.

Yes Pat has stated in the past mikey had a lifetime contract.. But he also stated this year something to the effect we were not going to do business as usual in the future, by ******* up the draft getting cheap players for 4-6 years and being relegated to covering up those mistake with high priced FA's with HUGE bonuses..

So perhaps that lifetime contract does indeed have a sunset clause in it after all.

One can only hope..

Lonestar
02-08-2008, 11:21 PM
BTW. Funny how Portis has come no where NEAR the production in Washington that he had here isnt it?

You could say, depending on how you look at it, that because of Mike Shanahans awesome job of coaching, he turned a decent second round draft pick into another decent back, and a 15 year plus pro bowl cornerback. All due to Shanahan.

15 years cause thats how many years Champ will go to the pro bowl.

No poorti$$$ was a product of, two folks Alex Gibbs and Bobby the RB coach who also turned TD, Gary, MA and a few others into damned fine runners in this system.

I would hardly call tater a decent RB, but give mikey the due diligence in making the trade for Champ..

Perhaps that is who should have the props.. mikey designed the plays, they taught the moron how to run in them..


What are you mikeys cousin or something? mikey is a great offensive mind, beyond that IMO not much, beyond a control freak....

Cutler6MVP
02-08-2008, 11:41 PM
And then he had his buddy Darren Sharper speak for him because he's not man enough to stand behind his original comments.

Walker's done in Denver. Just pay attention to what Bowlen and Shanahan have been saying.

In Walkers defense, it did not come out of his mouth. Maybe Sharper is just trying to get a legit receiver over to his team. Im sure Walker did say he wouldn't mind playing there. I wouldn't look too much into what Sharper said just yet. Walker is not dead to me yet, a few more negative words, and that could change.

LoyalSoldier
02-09-2008, 12:10 AM
No poorti$$$ was a product of, two folks Alex Gibbs and Bobby the RB coach who also turned TD, Gary, MA and a few others into damned fine runners in this system.

I would hardly call tater a decent RB, but give mikey the due diligence in making the trade for Champ..

Perhaps that is who should have the props.. mikey designed the plays, they taught the moron how to run in them..


What are you mikeys cousin or something? mikey is a great offensive mind, beyond that IMO not much, beyond a control freak....

Though Portis was used to trade for Bailey so I would hardly call him a total waste and he also gave us a set of great seasons. A few of those on your list I would call "Didn't completely pan out, but at least got on the field and did something"

I would call the complete wastes the ones who never cracked the starting lineup or did so little that it didn't really matter.

WARHORSE
02-09-2008, 01:56 AM
No poorti$$$ was a product of, two folks Alex Gibbs and Bobby the RB coach who also turned TD, Gary, MA and a few others into damned fine runners in this system.

I would hardly call tater a decent RB, but give mikey the due diligence in making the trade for Champ..

Perhaps that is who should have the props.. mikey designed the plays, they taught the moron how to run in them..


What are you mikeys cousin or something? mikey is a great offensive mind, beyond that IMO not much, beyond a control freak....

Um, sorry but Gibbs? Turner?
You cant keep givin all the credit to everyone else.
Both those coaches are awesome.

Why dont you look at Plummer without Shanny, and Plummer with Shanny.

Lelie without Shanny, and Lelie with Shanny.

All those RBs with Shanny, all those RBs without Shanny.

Brian Griese with Shanny, Brian without him.

Bubby Brister?

Shanahans offense and instruction brings the best out of players.


Offensive mind? Try HOF coach.

Superchop 7
02-09-2008, 02:02 AM
It's all dollars and cents, if Javon restructures I would welcome him.

Same with T Henry.

As for Ellis, what good is a three technique tackle if all they do is dance with the o linemen ?

Granted, I would love us to three technique other teams to death, I would love to have Ellis, but, I don't call the shots, and I don't think the base philosophy is going to change.

We need run stuffers.

They need to stay where they are at and draft Kenny Phillips.

Tned
02-09-2008, 02:04 AM
I haven't been able to spend much time in Broncos threads this week, so I am sure this has been posted, but Rotoworld quoting DenverPost.com says:


Javon Walker - WR Feb. 8 - 10:52 am et

The Broncos haven't spoken to Javon Walker's agent since the end of the season. The Denver Post expects him to be cut or traded within a month.

Walker isn't going to to take a paycut to stay in Denver. Considering the health of his knee, we seriously doubt that any other team will trade for him. Look for Walker to hit the open market.

DenBronx
02-09-2008, 02:55 AM
I haven't been able to spend much time in Broncos threads this week, so I am sure this has been posted, but Rotoworld quoting DenverPost.com says:

i missed that. no team is going to want his contract. javon is an idiot if he doesnt stay. he might end up in dallas, kc or oakland.

broncosfanscott
02-09-2008, 03:00 AM
i missed that. no team is going to want his contract. javon is an idiot if he doesnt stay. he might end up in dallas, kc or oakland.

It will be hard to trade him with his contract and an injured knee. As some people have stated, I don't see him taking a pay cut so I hope he comes to his senses and stays is Denver. There is plenty of time between now and camp to get that knee better.

Lonestar
02-09-2008, 03:13 AM
Um, sorry but Gibbs? Turner?
You cant keep givin all the credit to everyone else.
Both those coaches are awesome.

Why dont you look at Plummer without Shanny, and Plummer with Shanny.

Lelie without Shanny, and Lelie with Shanny.

All those RBs with Shanny, all those RBs without Shanny.

Brian Griese with Shanny, Brian without him.

Bubby Brister?

Shanahans offense and instruction brings the best out of players.


Offensive mind? Try HOF coach.

Well we will have to agree to disagree.

The RB success in DEN is Mostly IMO that of Gibbs hand the system he mentored here in DEN and Bobby Turner TD gave him the props for making him the RB he turned out being..

Jake did well here because of the talent he was surrounded with and IMO Gary Kubiack his mentor in DEN.. Jake in PHX had a different system, coaches, play book almost every year he was there and frankly not surrounded with nearly the talent he had here.

greasy was a pretty good QB in Den but was a head case, no one like the guy and that started with mikey pulling the rug out from under Bubby.. but he was self centered and unable to be around humans, when he made a mistake.. When players tried to console him after a pick or fumble he'd scare them way with his attitude. almost always sat by himself on the bench.. He was mikeys QB and everyone knew it..

Right on about mikeys offense bringing out everyones best but I do not agree with it being mikeys tutelage.. he is a offensive wizard not personality plus..

As I said we will have to agree to disagree.

BOSSHOGG30
02-09-2008, 11:27 AM
agree with you that teams win championships but,

your only focusing on big name players AND your not paying attention to defensive players. you can't possibly say strahan wasn't a me player at the beggining of the season. plaxico??? you can't possibly say that freeney wouldnt have sat out if he didnt feel the colts would resign him last year. deon branch(didnt he leave to get more money)??? and although most of those guys you listed don't have a ring alot still have at least helped thier teams go deep into the playoffs and at least GET to the superbowl. owens was a big reason the eagles were even in the game when he went and moss actually almost sealed the deal this year. so dont say these guys are not factors....i'm not saying their good for the locker room and will have a tea party with their quarter backs. i'm saying they do help their teams get to the next level.

Lets see Strahan? What is he going to do sack the QB? It is a little different when a defensive player is a me or I player.... they don't really become a distractions like offensive players. It is good when a defensive player plays with attitude... Joey Porter, Ray Lewis, Michael Strahan.... The goal is to stop the offense... it doesn't matter how it gets done... on offense the goal is to score, but you can't go in the huddle and demand the ball everytime and then complain because the QB isn't throwing you the ball enough. You need guys who don't care about stats and are willing run blockers or open to the idea of onther receiver getting the ball if you are double covered and so on. I know what you are saying, but maybe it's just me, but I look at the offense different than the defense.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 12:24 PM
Did someone seriously say that Portis was a product of the system here in Denver? Please tell me that after he gets into the Hall of Fame, which he will.

WARHORSE
02-09-2008, 01:01 PM
Did someone seriously say that Portis was a product of the system here in Denver? Please tell me that after he gets into the Hall of Fame, which he will.



Of course he will. Guaranteed. Cause hes done all that.....stuff. Broke a bunch a records or sumthin Im sure. Hes been unstoppable. A Superman among dweebs. If nothing else, his costumes are different. Hes a special runner for sure. I see him right next to Dickerson, Payton, Sanders...........OJ???? NOW I see your angle bro. He'll make it.



Sure he will.:coffee:

SmilinAssasSin27
02-09-2008, 01:18 PM
agree with you that teams win championships but,

your only focusing on big name players AND your not paying attention to defensive players. you can't possibly say strahan wasn't a me player at the beggining of the season. plaxico??? you can't possibly say that freeney wouldnt have sat out if he didnt feel the colts would resign him last year. deon branch(didnt he leave to get more money)??? and although most of those guys you listed don't have a ring alot still have at least helped thier teams go deep into the playoffs and at least GET to the superbowl. owens was a big reason the eagles were even in the game when he went and moss actually almost sealed the deal this year. so dont say these guys are not factors....i'm not saying their good for the locker room and will have a tea party with their quarter backs. i'm saying they do help their teams get to the next level.

Owens had ZERO to do with the eagles getting to the SB...he was hurt throughout the entire playoffs.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-09-2008, 01:19 PM
Did someone seriously say that Portis was a product of the system here in Denver? Please tell me that after he gets into the Hall of Fame, which he will.

Portis won't even sniff the hall.

BOSSHOGG30
02-09-2008, 01:29 PM
Portis will have to stay healthy...he is still very young and can rack up a pretty good resume... it helped him that he had such great stats to start his career in Denver.

Lonestar
02-09-2008, 01:48 PM
Portis will have to stay healthy...he is still very young and can rack up a pretty good resume... it helped him that he had such great stats to start his career in Denver.

But he has never stayed healthy and frankly I do not see Snyder paying him big bucks much longer for his NOT being on the field..

Synder is a NOW person, what have you done for me lately and what can you do NOW..
BAse salary for him next year $5.0mil

2002 225,000.00
2003 300,000.00
2004 380,000.00
2005 455,000.00
2006 585,000.00
2007 595,000.00
2008 5,048,500.00
2009 6,627,000.00
2010 7,690,500.00
2011 8,754,000.00
vs betts
2007 595,000.00
2008 605,000.00
2009 900,000.00
2010 1,650,000.00
2011 1,400,000.00
2012 1,400,000.00


2007 salaries for the skins RB



Player Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value


Betts, Ladell $ 595,000 $ 3,500,000 $ 100,000 $ 695,000 $ 1,377,142
Broughton, Nehemiah $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 6,120 $ 441,120 $ 441,120
Cartwright, Rock $ 600,000 $ 0 $ 4,320 $ 604,320 $ 679,320 RB
Cooley, Chris $ 510,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 5,160 $ 3,515,160 $ 1,178,910
Portis, Clinton $ 595,000 $ 3,905,000 $ 0 $ 4,500,000 $ 3,966,833

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2007&team=32

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 02:36 PM
Clinton Portis is 26 years old and already has close to 8,000 yards, coupled with 60+ touchdowns. I'm assuming he'll have at least four years of over 1,000 more yards to add to his resume, if not more. Factor in the fact that he catches the ball fairly well as well, and that he's a 1,500 - 1,750 all-purpose back each year he's on the field; that only helps his case.

I'm willing to bet he'll finish his career with 12,000 yards rushing (plus) around 3,000 yards receiving and around 100 total touchdowns. Compare that to some other backs that are there, I'd say he has a pretty good shot. Those statistics are assuming he only has 4 years left in him too.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 02:37 PM
But he has never stayed healthy and frankly I do not see Snyder paying him big bucks much longer for his NOT being on the field..

Synder is a NOW person, what have you done for me lately and what can you do NOW..
BAse salary for him next year $5.0mil

2002 225,000.00
2003 300,000.00
2004 380,000.00
2005 455,000.00
2006 585,000.00
2007 595,000.00
2008 5,048,500.00
2009 6,627,000.00
2010 7,690,500.00
2011 8,754,000.00
vs betts
2007 595,000.00
2008 605,000.00
2009 900,000.00
2010 1,650,000.00
2011 1,400,000.00
2012 1,400,000.00


2007 salaries for the skins RB



Player Base Salary Sign Bonus Other Bonus Total Salary Cap Value


Betts, Ladell $ 595,000 $ 3,500,000 $ 100,000 $ 695,000 $ 1,377,142
Broughton, Nehemiah $ 435,000 $ 0 $ 6,120 $ 441,120 $ 441,120
Cartwright, Rock $ 600,000 $ 0 $ 4,320 $ 604,320 $ 679,320 RB
Cooley, Chris $ 510,000 $ 3,000,000 $ 5,160 $ 3,515,160 $ 1,178,910
Portis, Clinton $ 595,000 $ 3,905,000 $ 0 $ 4,500,000 $ 3,966,833

http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamdetail.aspx?year=2007&team=32

Another convincing argument JR. You're right, if the Redskins get rid of Portis; he won't find another team to play on, because after all, he's a product of the system in Denver - and hasn't done anything since he left. :rolleyes:

Scarface
02-09-2008, 02:38 PM
Portis is starting to wear down. His production will start to go down as the Redskins share the rushing load. His huge number days are probably done.

Lonestar
02-09-2008, 02:41 PM
Portis is starting to wear down. His production will start to go down as the Redskins share the rushing load. His huge number days are probably done.


Snyder is not going to send big bucks on a time share RB.. Unless he can be the stud buffalo his career is over in WAS..

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 02:49 PM
Snyder is not going to send big bucks on a time share RB.. Unless he can be the stud buffalo his career is over in WAS..

So what's your point? He's 26 years old. If the Redskins get rid of him, he'll find a place to be the feature back and continue his success. Wearing down? Considering he just had a full length healthy season; I'd hardly say that's the truth.

ChampWJ
02-09-2008, 02:52 PM
Portis is starting to wear down. His production will start to go down as the Redskins share the rushing load. His huge number days are probably done.

I disagree. When the Redskins actually started using him as the feature back again this season, he thrived. They were mis-using him causing him to languish on the bench and not get in a rhythm. Reminds me of how the Gibbs regime ruined Lavar Arrington's career.

Lonestar
02-09-2008, 03:03 PM
I disagree. When the Redskins actually started using him as the feature back again this season, he thrived. They were mis-using him causing him to languish on the bench and not get in a rhythm. Reminds me of how the Gibbs regime ruined Lavar Arrington's career.

Yes they must do this, but can he handle the load anymore his injuries in the past will most likely rear their ugly head once again..

If he can stay healthy and get his 1000-1200 yards he is OK. But for the approximately $9 mil he is scheduled to make this year he better be beter than just OK or he is toast.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 03:14 PM
Yes they must do this, but can he handle the load anymore his injuries in the past will most likely rear their ugly head once again..

If he can stay healthy and get his 1000-1200 yards he is OK. But for the approximately $9 mil he is scheduled to make this year he better be beter than just OK or he is toast.

Okay, and even if they get rid of him, he'll find another team.

Seriously, your arguments are ridiculous and incoherent.

Scarface
02-09-2008, 03:18 PM
Dude had over 300 carries and out of those only 3 were 20+ yds. Zero for 40+. He's not even explosive any more. He's still a good back but it's downhill from here.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 03:29 PM
Dude had over 300 carries and out of those only 3 were 20+ yds. Zero for 40+. He's not even explosive any more. He's still a good back but it's downhill from here.

So, where do we equate poor OL play into this?

BeefStew25
02-09-2008, 03:30 PM
So, where do we equate poor OL play into this?

You can do that all you want, but his crappy OL is a reality. And will also contribute to him getting banged up even more.

Running backs are a dime a dozen.

ChampWJ
02-09-2008, 03:31 PM
Dude had over 300 carries and out of those only 3 were 20+ yds. Zero for 40+. He's not even explosive any more. He's still a good back but it's downhill from here.

This is getting really off topic, but if you want to analyze his stats that way, you need to take a second and look at the system they run and also analyze the strength of his o-line and other key offensive contributors. Their line is below average in my opinion, their passing game doesn't scare anyone (especially once Campbell got hurt), and their TE is not a blocker.

Two other things to consider. One, Gibbs' scheme is more of a smash-mouth, grinding inside attack, meant to control the clock. I do not consider this to be Portis' strength. This is why Betts got so many carries. Two, look at the three other defenses in their division (Dallas, Philly, and NYG). Tough teams to run against.

fcspikeit
02-09-2008, 03:33 PM
Okay, and even if they get rid of him, he'll find another team.

Seriously, your arguments are ridiculous and incoherent.

Portis is a good back,, He is not great. HOF backs don't get let go and tossed around from team to team.

His #'s are good but he is playing in an era of the NFL that is heavily offensive oriented. 1000 yard season used to be the cream of the crop. Anymore if you don't put up at least that your not even considered a good starter.

I suspect 10 years from now, the all time rushing leaders on the top today will be pushed down the list. Just having as good of #'s as the all time greats wont be good enough, to get in the Hall.

In the last 5 years, we have seen both the Passing and rushing single season TD records go down twice. Offenses are scoring more points. More is expected of the featured backs today. If your value is not much more then the next guy, How could you be a HOF player?

Who knows, maybe he will get with a system that really works for him and he can regain the status of being one of the top backs? Then I could see him reaching the Hall. The way it looks now, he is just another good back, among many that will not get in...

Requiem / The Dagda
02-09-2008, 03:45 PM
Portis is a good back,, He is not great. HOF backs don't get let go and tossed around from team to team.

His #'s are good but he is playing in an era of the NFL that is heavily offensive oriented. 1000 yard season used to be the cream of the crop. Anymore if you don't put up at least that your not even considered a good starter.

I suspect 10 years from now, the all time rushing leaders on the top today will be pushed down the list. Just having as good of #'s as the all time greats wont be good enough, to get in the Hall.

In the last 5 years, we have seen both the Passing and rushing single season TD records go down twice. Offenses are scoring more points. More is expected of the featured backs today. If your value is not much more then the next guy, How could you be a HOF player?

Who knows, maybe he will get with a system that really works for him and he can regain the status of being one of the top backs? Then I could see him reaching the Hall. The way it looks now, he is just another good back, among many that will not get in...

Some great points, but I think when it's all said and done, I think he's going to get a considerable amount of consideration; especially if he ends up with the statistical predictions I had; which I thought were on the low end.

Guys like Tomlinson are going to get in for sure; but Portis has a good chance.

26 years old, over 9,000 yards of total offense and about 70 touchdowns. He'll play at least four more quality years, he'll get there, there's no doubt in my mind.

WARHORSE
02-09-2008, 04:33 PM
Clinton Portis is 26 years old and already has close to 8,000 yards, coupled with 60+ touchdowns. I'm assuming he'll have at least four years of over 1,000 more yards to add to his resume, if not more. Factor in the fact that he catches the ball fairly well as well, and that he's a 1,500 - 1,750 all-purpose back each year he's on the field; that only helps his case.

I'm willing to bet he'll finish his career with 12,000 yards rushing (plus) around 3,000 yards receiving and around 100 total touchdowns. Compare that to some other backs that are there, I'd say he has a pretty good shot. Those statistics are assuming he only has 4 years left in him too.

Well, to be honest, he hasnt shown he can stay healthy. He is not a big back, and has a little slighter frame then most of the greats. If he plays 16 games for four years and actually takes his team somewhere, then maybe he will start being discussed. As of the moment though, he has done nothing to set himself apart, and I think thats mostly due to being injured. Hes carrying the ball WAY too much to gather his yards in Washington.

Scarface
02-09-2008, 09:31 PM
This is getting really off topic, but if you want to analyze his stats that way, you need to take a second and look at the system they run and also analyze the strength of his o-line and other key offensive contributors. Their line is below average in my opinion, their passing game doesn't scare anyone (especially once Campbell got hurt), and their TE is not a blocker.

Two other things to consider. One, Gibbs' scheme is more of a smash-mouth, grinding inside attack, meant to control the clock. I do not consider this to be Portis' strength. This is why Betts got so many carries. Two, look at the three other defenses in their division (Dallas, Philly, and NYG). Tough teams to run against.

Or he's just lost explosiveness....

SmilinAssasSin27
02-09-2008, 11:17 PM
Portis is good...that's about it. He may only be 26, but he has a lot of carries on his resume. Eddie George, Edge, etc are all abcks who at a fairly young age just lost it. I expect to see the same from CP. Like him, but he's no HOF candidate.

Npba900
02-10-2008, 01:09 AM
Portis in IMHO was a perfect match for Denver's zone blocking scheme! Its hard to believe he's been in the league 6 years now. There's strong possibility had Portis stayed in Denver, he may have avg. anywhere from 1,500 yards to perhaps add in a few 1,700 to 1,800 yard seasons. He was truly a special RB in Denver's system. He had the speed to take it to the house, and he ran hard and a nose for the end zone inside the 5.

With the Broncos, Portis first two seasons were better than TD's first two years. I believe had Portis not gone to Wash. and stayed in Denver over the last 6 years, he may have had 9K to 10K yards and 85-100 TD's. You factor in another 1,300, 1,400, 1,500 yards 10-13 TD's over 4 years, and Portis would have had stats to get into the HOF.

With Denver, Portis did not take nearly the pounding he eventually sustained with Wash. over the last 4 years; b/c Denver had a talented offensive team vs the Redskins. With Denver, Portis was able to find daylight and seams and could get to the second level in a hurry especially when Denver used a lead FB and with WR's throwing blocks as well!

However, with Wash., Portis went to a team with little offensive talent, rushed the ball w/o a lead fullback, and the O-line did not open holes. So, as a result, Portis has worn down quicker and sustained more injuries with Wash., than he probably would have had he stayed in Denver. But hey! we know he wanted to GET PAID!!!! and the rest is history!

RiversSucks
02-10-2008, 01:28 AM
Holy crap!

This thread has gotten WAY off topic.

Lonestar
02-10-2008, 01:39 AM
Portis in IMHO was a perfect match for Denver's zone blocking scheme! Its hard to believe he's been in the league 6 years now. There's strong possibility had Portis stayed in Denver, he may have avg. anywhere from 1,500 yards to perhaps add in a few 1,700 to 1,800 yard seasons. He was truly a special RB in Denver's system. He had the speed to take it to the house, and he ran hard and a nose for the end zone inside the 5.

With the Broncos, Portis first two seasons were better than TD's first two years. I believe had Portis not gone to Wash. and stayed in Denver over the last 6 years, he may have had 9K to 10K yards and 85-100 TD's. You factor in another 1,300, 1,400, 1,500 yards 10-13 TD's over 4 years, and Portis would have had stats to get into the HOF.

With Denver, Portis did not take nearly the pounding he eventually sustained with Wash. over the last 4 years; b/c Denver had a talented offensive team vs the Redskins. With Denver, Portis was able to find daylight and seams and could get to the second level in a hurry especially when Denver used a lead FB and with WR's throwing blocks as well!

However, with Wash., Portis went to a team with little offensive talent, rushed the ball w/o a lead fullback, and the O-line did not open holes. So, as a result, Portis has worn down quicker and sustained more injuries with Wash., than he probably would have had he stayed in Denver. But hey! we know he wanted to GET PAID!!!! and the rest is history!

not only paid he wanted out of den the town he once called hicksville, wanted to go to the big city.

WARHORSE
02-10-2008, 02:41 AM
Snyder is not going to send big bucks on a time share RB.. Unless he can be the stud buffalo his career is over in WAS..


Um.........hes already doing that.

WARHORSE
02-10-2008, 02:44 AM
So what's your point? He's 26 years old. If the Redskins get rid of him, he'll find a place to be the feature back and continue his success. Wearing down? Considering he just had a full length healthy season; I'd hardly say that's the truth.

Yeah, he had a healthy season. But he also shared the load with you know who. Yardage down........health up.

If hes gonna go a full 16 game season and bring me 1200-1300 yds, then hes no more special than the man next to him. While smart on behalf of Washington, it hardly points towards continuing to pay him huge dollar amounts.

WARHORSE
02-10-2008, 02:48 AM
Portis in IMHO was a perfect match for Denver's zone blocking scheme! Its hard to believe he's been in the league 6 years now. There's strong possibility had Portis stayed in Denver, he may have avg. anywhere from 1,500 yards to perhaps add in a few 1,700 to 1,800 yard seasons. He was truly a special RB in Denver's system. He had the speed to take it to the house, and he ran hard and a nose for the end zone inside the 5.

With the Broncos, Portis first two seasons were better than TD's first two years. I believe had Portis not gone to Wash. and stayed in Denver over the last 6 years, he may have had 9K to 10K yards and 85-100 TD's. You factor in another 1,300, 1,400, 1,500 yards 10-13 TD's over 4 years, and Portis would have had stats to get into the HOF.

With Denver, Portis did not take nearly the pounding he eventually sustained with Wash. over the last 4 years; b/c Denver had a talented offensive team vs the Redskins. With Denver, Portis was able to find daylight and seams and could get to the second level in a hurry especially when Denver used a lead FB and with WR's throwing blocks as well!

However, with Wash., Portis went to a team with little offensive talent, rushed the ball w/o a lead fullback, and the O-line did not open holes. So, as a result, Portis has worn down quicker and sustained more injuries with Wash., than he probably would have had he stayed in Denver. But hey! we know he wanted to GET PAID!!!! and the rest is history!


Yep. He is not a back who can carry the load 325+ times a game for years on end. He simply is not built for it. In Denver, he was getting his 1500 yds with far less carries. Needless to say, hes getting paid, and we recieved a much more valuable player in Champ Bailey.

Scarface
02-10-2008, 09:25 AM
Um.........hes already doing that.

Exactly. One thing Snyder's not afraid of is spending money.

Stargazer
02-12-2008, 03:45 AM
Snyder is not going to send big bucks on a time share RB.. Unless he can be the stud buffalo his career is over in WAS..

He's been paying him the big bucks. Don't be surprised if Snyder does it in 2008.

Stargazer
02-12-2008, 03:47 AM
Portis in IMHO was a perfect match for Denver's zone blocking scheme! Its hard to believe he's been in the league 6 years now. There's strong possibility had Portis stayed in Denver, he may have avg. anywhere from 1,500 yards to perhaps add in a few 1,700 to 1,800 yard seasons. He was truly a special RB in Denver's system. He had the speed to take it to the house, and he ran hard and a nose for the end zone inside the 5.

With the Broncos, Portis first two seasons were better than TD's first two years. I believe had Portis not gone to Wash. and stayed in Denver over the last 6 years, he may have had 9K to 10K yards and 85-100 TD's. You factor in another 1,300, 1,400, 1,500 yards 10-13 TD's over 4 years, and Portis would have had stats to get into the HOF.

With Denver, Portis did not take nearly the pounding he eventually sustained with Wash. over the last 4 years; b/c Denver had a talented offensive team vs the Redskins. With Denver, Portis was able to find daylight and seams and could get to the second level in a hurry especially when Denver used a lead FB and with WR's throwing blocks as well!

However, with Wash., Portis went to a team with little offensive talent, rushed the ball w/o a lead fullback, and the O-line did not open holes. So, as a result, Portis has worn down quicker and sustained more injuries with Wash., than he probably would have had he stayed in Denver. But hey! we know he wanted to GET PAID!!!! and the rest is history!

The Broncos have not found a replacement since Portis has left Denver.

Stargazer
02-12-2008, 03:51 AM
not only paid he wanted out of den the town he once called hicksville, wanted to go to the big city.

He wanted to be paid. Denver decided not to pay him.

Denver is a cowtown.

BOSSHOGG30
02-12-2008, 10:23 AM
950 The Fan: Broncos expected to release Javon Walker

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

They said Adam Schefter is reporting the Broncos are expected to release WR Javon Walker before March 1st.

BOSSHOGG30
02-12-2008, 12:13 PM
Does anybody remember Anthony Miller?

1994 and 1995 leading receiver for the Denver Broncos. He was a me first kind of malcontent who saw his numbers decrease in 1996.

Mike cut him because he didn't blend with the nucleus he was building. He was a distraction in the clubhouse.

Some nobody named Rod Smith with 22 career receptions comes out of nowhere to lead the team in receiving yards and touchdowns.

In summary, Broncos didn't miss a beat.

The moral of the story, sometimes it is just better to move on.

Lonestar
02-12-2008, 12:38 PM
Exactly. One thing Snyder's not afraid of is spending money.


He's been paying him the big bucks. Don't be surprised if Snyder does it in 2008.


He wanted to be paid. Denver decided not to pay him.

Denver is a cow town.

Dan Snyder has blown a lot of money on veterans while owning the skins has not been afraid at all.

But he is not totally stupid either unless he gets a new contract from Poortis I do not see him paying him the big bucks he is going get this year for the lack of production he has had the past couple of years.. Poortis is wearing down and not nearly the big threat he was before while in DEN.


The Broncos have not found a replacement since Poortis has left Denver.

Correct but it has not been because mikey has not been able to find that magic because he has not tried. to find the stud buffalo with speed. He has instead been content to use a smallish OLINE and not so stud Buffalo's that have run up great yardage between the 20's. Now it is time to beef up the OLINE a bit so we have a chance inside the 5.. Finesse just does not cut it against goal line defenses.

haroldthebarrel
02-12-2008, 05:19 PM
Bah, why cant the frigging in the rigging team settle on a strength instead of always loosing the edge from year to year.
Its a stupid parable, but playing denver in madden is way cool since the receiver matchups are so great.

Now for extra points. What two songs am i mentioning in these two lines.

haroldthebarrel
02-12-2008, 05:22 PM
Dan Snyder has blown a lot of money on veterans while owning the skins has not been afraid at all.

But he is not totally stupid either unless he gets a new contract from Poortis I do not see him paying him the big bucks he is going get this year for the lack of production he has had the past couple of years.. Poortis is wearing down and not nearly the big threat he was before while in DEN.



Correct but it has not been because mikey has not been able to find that magic because he has not tried. to find the stud buffalo with speed. He has instead been content to use a smallish OLINE and not so stud Buffalo's that have run up great yardage between the 20's. Now it is time to beef up the OLINE a bit so we have a chance inside the 5.. Finesse just does not cut it against goal line defenses.

Perhaps that is the goal, to have a real buffalo on the goalline. I hope the Bills dont sue.

I wouldnt worry about running backs in this drafts. There are probably ten guys who should be thousand plus runners if given opportunity.

I for one would like us to finnally stack up on talent in the trenches.
The giants had two firsts and two second rounders in their trenches(counting Kiwi). The Pats has three.
Winning the battle in the trenches makes it a lot easier to any player to make a play.

Lonestar
02-12-2008, 05:39 PM
Perhaps that is the goal, to have a real buffalo on the goalline. I hope the Bills dont sue.

I wouldnt worry about running backs in this drafts. There are probably ten guys who should be thousand plus runners if given opportunity.

I for one would like us to finnally stack up on talent in the trenches.
The giants had two firsts and two second rounders in their trenches(counting Kiwi). The Pats has three.
Winning the battle in the trenches makes it a lot easier to any player to make a play.

The game is normally won or lost on the LOS we have been losing those battles more and more since 1999..

Finally mikey listened to Bates last year and at least made an attempt to start to rebuild the DLINE..

Maybe there is hope still that doing it his way has not produced a winner in almost 10 years now..

Maybe Pat figured it out and tightened his leash a bit..