Is Knowshon rookie of the year???

[DenBronx]

I think he has won rookie of the week 3 times this year and is almost certain to win it again this week with his 2 td performance. If he wins this week or at least one more time will he be ROY???

This makes Mayock and company look pretty stupid and McDaniels pretty smart if you ask me. They really raised eyebrows with this choice on draft day if you can remember.

Thoughts?

[Ravage!!!]

I think Harvin for Minnesota has earned the right, imo.

[dogfish]

I think Harvin for Minnesota has earned the right, imo.

yep-- it's going to be harvin, unless knowshon just completely lights it up from here on out. . . percy has comparable offensive yardage and touchdown numbers, plus he'll finish with over a thousand return yards and at least two more scores. . . he's been a serious big play threat for a runaway division winner. . .

[MadMax]

I couldn't be happier with Knowshons performance so far, I especially like that he's gotten better each game you can see him waiting slightly for holes to open up now. However, Percy Harvin is not only having an incredible year but he also gets all the extra hype from playing with Brett Farvre, so I don't think Knowshon or anyone else stands a chance at ROY against Harvin.

[Ravage!!!]

yep-- it's going to be harvin, unless knowshon just completely lights it up from here on out. . . percy has comparable offensive yardage and touchdown numbers, plus he'll finish with over a thousand return yards and at least two more scores. . . he's been a serious big play threat for a runaway division winner. . .

He's absolutely been a difference maker for the Vikings. I thought he might be a 'decent' player, but felt he was over-rated coming out of Florida... I was majorly wrong. This kid is an absolute STUD in the NFL and will soon be considered one of the top dynamic NFL players.

[DenBronx]

nah, moreno will be considered over harvin. harvin would have to blow up.

harvin is 34th in yards and 13th in td's at WR
voted rookie of the week 7, 8

moreno is 13th in yards and 18th in td's at RB
voted rookie of the week 4, 5, 12 (and should get it week 13)

harvins not even in the top 15 in yards recieving.
moreno is splitting carries.

[dogfish]

nah, moreno will be considered over harvin. harvin would have to blow up.

harvin is 34th in yards and 13th in td's at WR
voted rookie of the week 7, 8

moreno is 13th in yards and 18th in td's at RB
voted rookie of the week 4, 5, 12 (and should get it week 13)

harvins not even in the top 15 in yards recieving.
moreno is splitting carries.

fifty bucks on it?

[Elevation inc]

I think he has won rookie of the week 3 times this year and is almost certain to win it again this week with his 2 td performance. If he wins this week or at least one more time will he be ROY???

This makes Mayock and company look pretty stupid and McDaniels pretty smart if you ask me. They really raised eyebrows with this choice on draft day if you can remember.
Thoughts?

these guys blasted mcd for taking a RB at 12 after spending alot in FA on bucky and jordan, when our DL looked like it needed major help....how were they suppose to know a career back-up NT, a PS DE and a Back-up DE were are answers....lol

and mike mayock thought moreno was a top ten pick all year and was his favorite running back...they just thought denver should have looked elsewhere instead of RB at 12, becasue are DL was such a question mark?

and honestly i liked the pick but i agreed with there assesment at the time....we should have used both first rounders on defense. in hindsight MCD made the right call...and even mayock admitted this in NFL playbook a couple times...

[Dirk]

I vote no. The reason I vote no is because of all the hoopla over Favre and the season they are having.

Now, if Moreno can rip off some 50 yarders and get over 100 yards in each of the remaining games, I think it would be too obvious for them to pick the more "favorable" rookie of the year.

You have to remember, Denver is not loved by those with the "power". So, Moreno will have to out shine anyone by a mile before he gets it.

Just sayin'

[broncofaninfla]

Is this a real question? No way Moreno beats out Harvin, it's not even close.

[camdisco24]

Well he is by far the best Rookie RB so he will be considered heavily. I think he needs to have a couple games at 100+ yards before he can be considered higher than Harvin. At this point it will be a close race between Knowshon and Harvin.

I'll be pulling for Knowshon all the way!!

[Slick]

I'd give it to Brian Cushing. That kid has been consistent all year.

[broncofaninfla]

I'd give it to Brian Cushing. That kid has been consistent all year.


Good point, Cushing has been very impressive as well.

[JDL]

I think Harvin for Minnesota has earned the right, imo.

Hard to argue against Harvin getting it at this point. 1000yds for a rooke WR is far more impressive than 1000yds for a rookie RB.

I love Moreno but he needs to be more consistent breaking off the big gains that Buck finds with such ease. It is more an issue of Moreno just simply not seeing where to go and slamming it up into the line... good for no losses of yardage, but he leaves A LOT of yards on the field.

Harvin has been just a big big play guy... really impressive on Special Teams, end arounds and developing into a heck of a WR 2nd half of the season.

[JDL]

Well he is by far the best Rookie RB so he will be considered heavily. I think he needs to have a couple games at 100+ yards before he can be considered higher than Harvin. At this point it will be a close race between Knowshon and Harvin.

I'll be pulling for Knowshon all the way!!

This is not even exactly true... he has been the most consistent and I would say probably the best... but at this point he has a mere 100yds more than Lesean McCoy who has 40 less touches. Moreno has more opportunities than the other primary backs Wells and McCoy... Wells has had the same fumbling problems as Moreno, but has looked like a dominating tackle breaking runner and someone who could be very special in his own right. Moreno is the best fit for the Denver Broncos, but he may not be the best RB in that class from last year. It is still VERY close. More opportunities does not equate to better. It is all about what you do with those opportunities.

[Dreadnought]

This is not even exactly true... he has been the most consistent and I would say probably the best... but at this point he has a mere 100yds more than Lesean McCoy who has 40 less touches. Moreno has more opportunities than the other primary backs Wells and McCoy... Wells has had the same fumbling problems as Moreno, but has looked like a dominating tackle breaking runner and someone who could be very special in his own right. Moreno is the best fit for the Denver Broncos, but he may not be the best RB in that class from last year. It is still VERY close. More opportunities does not equate to better. It is all about what you do with those opportunities.

Agreed, and frankly what it says is this isn't all that good a class for rookie RB's. So far Moreno has been an above average back, but no more.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Transitioning from college to the NFL takes time. For each of those teams, they have veteran players who already have roles on their teams. Moreno has earned, and will continue to earn more opportunities on this team has he progresses. A 4.3 yards per carry average, a pace to over 1,000 yards on the season as well as half a dozen total touchdowns is far from average from a rookie. He barely played against Pittsburgh and coming off his MCL sprain, did very little against the Bengals. When Moreno runs the ball well, the Broncos win -- with the exception of the Redskins game.

McDaniels system operates on multiple backs having a chance to run the ball. Buckhalter has received his fair share of carries as well because he has proven effective. It keeps defenses honest, and the legs of our runners fresh. A lot of other teams do not have the same system or success we do with multiple backs.

A 100 yard performance has eluded Knowshon so far, but over the past four weeks he has rushed for 351 yards on 68 carries. That is a 5.1 YPC average. As time has progressed, he has gotten better. For anyone to say he has been average is an outright lie, or a blatantly false football observation just for the sake of being different. Perhaps a combination of the two.

He is in the running for ROY honors, but my nod would also go to Percy Harvin, who has been exceptional on special teams and on offense when given opportunities. That doesn't mean Knowshon hasn't played well, because he clearly has. Now people know why we took him #12 overall. They better be happy about it too.

[camdisco24]

This is not even exactly true... he has been the most consistent and I would say probably the best... but at this point he has a mere 100yds more than Lesean McCoy who has 40 less touches. Moreno has more opportunities than the other primary backs Wells and McCoy... Wells has had the same fumbling problems as Moreno, but has looked like a dominating tackle breaking runner and someone who could be very special in his own right. Moreno is the best fit for the Denver Broncos, but he may not be the best RB in that class from last year. It is still VERY close. More opportunities does not equate to better. It is all about what you do with those opportunities.

haha little contradiction there? ;) (I know what you mean though...)

I agree with everything you said and I still say he is the best rookie RB. Just being a starter puts him above McCoy and Wells in my book. Like I said though, there is alot of room for improvement. He gonna have to pull out a few 100 yard games if he wants to have a chance for ROTY.

I am a little disappointed with Knownshon's performance this year, but every week I see improvement in his game. The past two weeks he has been real solid and he's held onto the ball! It'll certainly be interesting to see how he does next year with all that he's learned this year. I think he has a bright future.

[dogfish]

"best" is a really subjective term in this case anyway, and if you really want to get into it you also have to look beyond the raw stats at things like pass protection, schematic versatility, situational success (crunch time vs. garbage time), etc etc. . . it's probably more accurate to say that knowshon's been the most productive rookie RB to this point. . .

[camdisco24]

"best" is a really subjective term in this case anyway, and if you really want to get into it you also have to look beyond the raw stats at things like pass protection, schematic versatility, situational success (crunch time vs. garbage time), etc etc. . . it's probably more accurate to say that knowshon's been the most productive rookie RB to this point. . .

Great point, thats probably the best way to put it at this juncture.

[Brand]

Yes in the AFC. Harvin in the NFC. League wide, I think Harvin would get it because old Favre gets the feather in his cap for making this boy an MVP.......

[honz]

Who is Knowshon? I only know of NoShow Moreno.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Who is Knowshon? I only know of NoShow Moreno.

Was that Overtime who was callin' him that? LOL.

[SOCALORADO.]

I'd give it to Brian Cushing. That kid has been consistent all year.

Cushing will get Defensive Rookie of the Year.
Harvin will get Offensive Rookie of the Year.
I am not sure if they give out just a "rookie of the year" anymore.

I do think it will be close though, and Moreno will be a close 2nd.

Who cares!?!?!? Moreno has played exceptionally well, and is in a close running for the award, which means DEN made out like bandits!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[TXBRONC]

Well he is by far the best Rookie RB so he will be considered heavily. I think he needs to have a couple games at 100+ yards before he can be considered higher than Harvin. At this point it will be a close race between Knowshon and Harvin.

I'll be pulling for Knowshon all the way!!

I think it will take more than just a couple of 100 yard preformances for Moreno to get the nod over Harvin.

He would have to be absolute monster from this point forward. It would probably take something like rip off four straight 100 rushing performances in four straight Denver wins and Denver winning the division.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Agreed. Harvin (http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/H/HarvPe00.htm) has been lights out.

[silkamilkamonico]

nah, moreno will be considered over harvin. harvin would have to blow up.

harvin is 34th in yards and 13th in td's at WR
voted rookie of the week 7, 8

moreno is 13th in yards and 18th in td's at RB
voted rookie of the week 4, 5, 12 (and should get it week 13)

harvins not even in the top 15 in yards recieving.
moreno is splitting carries.



Harvin is Minnesota's 3rd WR, which only adds more fuel to his argument.

Being in a top 15 category of yards is next to irrelevant. The voters are going to look at total TD's, which Harvin has 8 compared to Moreno's 6 at this point, and the different roles they have.

Moreno is producing as a RB and an occasion WR. Harvin is producing at WR, occasionally RB, and as a returner. He's far more valuable to Minnesota than Moreno is to Denver. Moreno isn't even the best RB in Denver statistically speaking.

[Ravage!!!]

Not to mention Minnesota is considered one of the elite teams in the NFL, and Harvin has been an EXCEPTIONALLY dynamic player for them. Moreno has gotten better the last few weeks, but I wouldn't say he's been 'dynamic' this season by any means.

ITs not a slap to Moreno not to win the award. He's coming along great... but Harvin has just been much more valuable and dynamic this season as a rookie.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Moreno isn't even the best RB in Denver statistically speaking.

More yards than Buckhalter, way more touchdowns, I'm not sure on receiving yards. Buckhalter has a higher YPC. Um, yeah -- Moreno is our best RB statistically, he is also one of our best offensive players, being third in points scored behind Prater and Marshall.

[silkamilkamonico]

More yards than Buckhalter, way more touchdowns, I'm not sure on receiving yards. Buckhalter has a higher YPC. Um, yeah -- Moreno is our best RB statistically, he is also one of our best offensive players, being third in points scored behind Prater and Marshall.

Moreno is only our best RB in the cateogries you pointed out because he has significantly more touches than Buckhalter, more specifically inside the redzone.

They both have enough touches to get a gauge on their production, and Buckhalter's yards per touch (6.0) is significantly higher than Moreno's (4.4). Moreno has done a very good job this year, but Buckhalter is a much more explosive RB, and the numbers show it.

[TXBRONC]

Moreno is only our best RB in the cateogries you pointed out because he has significantly more touches than Buckhalter, more specifically inside the redzone.

They both have enough touches to get a gauge on their production, and Buckhalter's yards per touch (6.0) is significantly higher than Moreno's (4.4). Moreno has done a very good job this year, but Buckhalter is a much more explosive RB, and the numbers show it.

If McDaniels felt that Buckhalter was significantly more explosive than Moreno I bet he would be the one getting the majority of the touches.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Moreno is only our best RB in the cateogries you pointed out because he has significantly more touches than Buckhalter, more specifically inside the redzone.

They both have enough touches to get a gauge on their production, and Buckhalter's yards per touch (6.0) is significantly higher than Moreno's (4.4). Moreno has done a very good job this year, but Buckhalter is a much more explosive RB, and the numbers show it.

Less touches, bigger runs for Buckhalter. That is how he has always been used.

Moreno is in there wearing down defenses pounding the rock more, then Buckhalter shifts in. That is why we do the rotation. Moreno is also getting more chances for a reason. Furthermore, Buckhalter's injuries over his career are why he is in the second role. Explosive in small dosages. He isn't the kind of full-time guy you rely on, like we can with Moreno.

Moreno is our best running back statistically, they show. If Buckhalter had the carries Moreno did, his average would not remain the same.

[silkamilkamonico]

Well I think McDaniels is playing Moreno more because Moreno is just the better back right now. He's a little better in short yardage situations, and he's been consistently good and improving.

He's not more explosive though, IMO. Buckhalter has 77 less carries, twice as many runs of 20+ yards, and a 40+ yard run on top of that. He also has more receptions, and seems to be the preferred target as a recieving back. He has a much better chance of getting into the open field and creating a big play over Moreno. As far as I'm concerned, that's explosiveness.

It's also something Moreno lacks right now. Moreno has been a great young talent, and is very much the same kind of back as Curtis Martin. never loses yards, very rarely breaks big runs, and has a nice average. Curtis Martin was a great RB in the NFL, but he wasn't explosive.

[Lonestar]

No way Moreno gets it.

IMO he is not the best) on the team. Dream argues that he is the one ponding the defenses into submission and Bucky gets the benefit of that.

The reverse should also be true after being worn out CHASING Bucky and his longer runs Moreno should be getting those gravy runs also.

Instead he is still learning how/when to hit the holes and when to allow the blocks to be set up.

Moreno has loads of potential but so far he has only showed us glimpes of it.

Let's hope he does so SOON.


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[Lonestar]

Let me add that Bucky is getting his yards without the benefit most RB's need rythm. Comes in spelling Moreno and knocks off 10-40 yarders.

Who's your momma.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

[drewloc]

I look at it like this, is he still in the running as a canidate? Hell yes, he has shown he has that ability, and is definitely in consideration. Is the the best rookie right now in the NFL? I think there is at least one, if not two you could make a case for. He is in position to make a run at it, but if the voting was today, I don't think he would win it.

[broncofaninfla]

Less touches, bigger runs for Buckhalter. That is how he has always been used.

Moreno is in there wearing down defenses pounding the rock more, then Buckhalter shifts in. That is why we do the rotation. Moreno is also getting more chances for a reason. Furthermore, Buckhalter's injuries over his career are why he is in the second role. Explosive in small dosages. He isn't the kind of full-time guy you rely on, like we can with Moreno.

Moreno is our best running back statistically, they show. If Buckhalter had the carries Moreno did, his average would not remain the same.

Given Moreno's fumbling issues I wouldn't say Moreno is ready to be relied on full time just yet.

Moreno isn't the best back on our team, Buck is. Given Bucks injury history I do agree with spelling Buck with Moreno but lets not kid ourselves. At this stage Buck is a better back than Moreno. With the improvment Moreno has shown to date he should surpass Buck soon as our best back but we're not quiet there yet.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Lets not go through another round of embarrassment like the Hillis thread. Knowshon Moreno is a starter on this team because he is our best option at running back. That is why he is in there. Thanks again!

[broncofaninfla]

lets not go through another round of embarrassment like the hillis thread. Knowshon moreno is a starter on this team because he is our best option at running back. That is why he is in there. Thanks again!

lol!!!

[Requiem / The Dagda]

lol!!!

Quite the defense, I must say. If Knowshon wasn't our best back, why has he been starting games?

[Italianmobstr7]

Knowshon should and will be considered for ROY. I think as of right now Harvin has it, but things can change with 4 weeks left. Knowhson has 5 rushing and 1 receiving TD and has been far and away the best rookie RB. He's been voted rookie of the week 3 times already and again was the only real standout rookie this week besides Louis Murphy and his 4 catches and game winner against Pitt. Knowshon keeps scoring a TD or 2 a game and he'll be highly considered and may win the ROY. Will be hard to do since he's a Bronco though and since the Vikings have Favre.

[broncofaninfla]

Quite the defense, I must say. If Knowshon wasn't our best back, why has he been starting games?

Because our best back has a history of injury problems and the best long term plan is spell play him. Bucks our best back but he can't take the pounding like the kid can and the kid should get better with each carry and I feel he has.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Buckhalter has been a spell player his whole career. That is why he is not a starter. Your best players start, period.

[Ravage!!!]

Turner was behind Tomlinson. Just because he was backing Tomlinson up doesn't mean he was purely a "spell back".. just means he was behind Tomlinson. Davis was behind some pretty damned good backs in College. Buckhalter was behind Westbrook.

[slim]

Knowson is getting better with every game.

I am glad to see it, because after the first 6 weeks I was ready to push the panic button on him.

Too early to say who will win ROY...still a lot of games to be played.

[Lonestar]

Dream you tied your horses to morenos wagon two years ago.

Not that it was a mistake because he is going to be great for us IF he gets the fumblitis under control.

Right now he has zero chance of being ROY as long as harvin continues to play OK.

As for him being the starter it is his because of the invetsment Jish has in him.

Looking at pure stats Bucky is the better back but you can not see it because of your INVESTMENT over the past two years in him.

It is not a bad thing to have quality 3-4 deep at any posistion.


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[claymore]

Dream you tied your horses to morenos wagon two years ago.

Not that it was a mistake because he is going to be great for us IF he gets the fumblitis under control.

Right now he has zero chance of being ROY as long as harvin continues to play OK.

As for him being the starter it is his because of the invetsment Jish has in him.

Looking at pure stats Bucky is the better back but you can not see it because of your INVESTMENT over the past two years in him.

It is not a bad thing to have quality 3-4 deep at any posistion.


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Statistically Moreno is having a better year.

Buckhalter fumbles more per carry, scores less TD's and has less yards.

[claymore]

Statistically Moreno is having a better year.

Buckhalter fumbles more per carry, scores less TD's and has less yards.

I would also like to say That knowshon, thru 12 games has eclipsed Buckhalter best season ever.

So Moreno, a rookie, thru 12 games has more yards rushing in a single season than Correll Buckhalter has ever had in a single season (9 years).

[DenBronx]

Harvin is Minnesota's 3rd WR, which only adds more fuel to his argument.

Being in a top 15 category of yards is next to irrelevant. The voters are going to look at total TD's, which Harvin has 8 compared to Moreno's 6 at this point, and the different roles they have.

Moreno is producing as a RB and an occasion WR. Harvin is producing at WR, occasionally RB, and as a returner. He's far more valuable to Minnesota than Moreno is to Denver. Moreno isn't even the best RB in Denver statistically speaking.

nah, harvins clearly the #2 in minn and he gets targeted alot more because farve knows he's going to actually catch the football compared to rice or berrian.

being in a top 15 is not irrelevant by any point. voters are going to look at overall performance, how many times they were rookie of the week and of course popularity.

if harvin goes down then minn still has two solid wr's. if moreno goes down then that leaves only bucky and he's never been reliable....we would be screwed.

[shank]

anyone who says that buck is 'better' because of moreno's fumbles... i stop reading those posts immediately.

:listen:

[claymore]

anyone who says that buck is 'better' because of moreno's fumbles... i stop reading those posts immediately.

:listen:

Buck fumbles more per carry. :eek:

[Dreadnought]

I would also like to say That knowshon, thru 12 games has eclipsed Buckhalter best season ever.

So Moreno, a rookie, thru 12 games has more yards rushing in a single season than Correll Buckhalter has ever had in a single season (9 years).

Bzzzzzzt - Sorry, that answer is incorrect. I could give a Rat's wazoo over total number of yards - just show me that Yards per Carry

Bucky has a much better YPC than Knowshon. Hell, Selvin Young had a better YPC than Knowshon both 06 and 07, and not by a little. Same with Hillis. Same with Tatum Bell. He hasn't shown himself to be much of an improvement over those guys. Buck is another matter - clearly the best RB we've seen in many years - but you can't count on his health.

Knowshon has improved from a below average YPC to a slightly above average YPC. Good for him, and he needs to maintain that. He hasn't fumbled for a couple of games - again, good for him.

[claymore]

Bzzzzzzt - Sorry, that answer is incorrect. I could give a Rat's wazoo over total number of yards - just show me that Yards per Carry

Bucky has a much better YPC than Knowshon. Hell, Selvin Young had a better YPC than Knowshon both 06 and 07, and not by a little. Same with Hillis. Same with Tatum Bell. He hasn't shown himself to be much of an improvement over those guys. Buck is another matter - clearly the best RB we've seen in many years - but you can't count on his health.

Knowshon has improved from a below average YPC to a slightly above average YPC. Good for him, and he needs to maintain that. He hasn't fumbled for a couple of games - again, good for him.

To bad the NFL doesnt rate RB's by the YPC!

[Dreadnought]

To bad the NFL doesnt rate RB's by the YPC!

I don't really care about total yards as a marker for how valuable a RB is, since I always prefer RBBC over a "featured back" anyway. YPC is a far better indicator, though TD's and short yardage conversions are important as well.

[silkamilkamonico]

nah, harvins clearly the #2 in minn and he gets targeted alot more because farve knows he's going to actually catch the football compared to rice or berrian.

being in a top 15 is not irrelevant by any point. voters are going to look at overall performance, how many times they were rookie of the week and of course popularity.

if harvin goes down then minn still has two solid wr's. if moreno goes down then that leaves only bucky and he's never been reliable....we would be screwed.

1)Sidney Rice has better hands than Harvin. I'm not even sure where you're trying to go with that argument. He's also been targeted the most. It is also only of late that Harvin has branched into 2 Wr sets, much in the same fashion Moreno now starts. So that argument doesn't hold any weight either way.

2)voters do look at overall performance, which is why Harvin would easily get it over Moreno. He does more in more areas of the game, he has more TD's, and by the number's he's been much more explosive.

3)There's more WR's then RB's, and if you're going to throw Berrian in the solid WR category, I'm throwing Hillis in the solid RB category, which negates any more importance for one player. You also forgot to add that MN would have to look for a kick returner if Harvin went down.

[Ravage!!!]

Hmmm. this was our best rushing game all year long against the Chiefs.

I don't have a problem with Moreno...but I don't necessarily believe he's lived up to the hype of him .. YET. He's improved over the last couple of games into closer to the back I was expecting to see much earlier in the season.

Buckhalter was not only behind Brian Westbrook, but had several knee injuries. Westbrook is a great back. Not an insult to be back-up to him. Injuries happen to the best RBs in the NFL. That being said, NO ONE can say that Buckhalter is purely a back-up quality back.. NOR.. can they compare a top season's total and be a fair comparison.

I believe Dan Marino's top season is better than Elway's top season. Doesn't mean I think Marino isn't a quality starter, and doesn't mean I don't believe Elway was a better QB. Kurt Warner sat behing what QBs before finally getting the starting chance?? Terrell Davis was a back up to Garrison Hearst.

People get buried because of who they are behind, who has more money invested in them, and injuries.

[Ravage!!!]

nah, harvins clearly the #2 in minn and he gets targeted alot more because farve knows he's going to actually catch the football compared to rice or berrian.

being in a top 15 is not irrelevant by any point. voters are going to look at overall performance, how many times they were rookie of the week and of course popularity.

if harvin goes down then minn still has two solid wr's. if moreno goes down then that leaves only bucky and he's never been reliable....we would be screwed.

WHy? Bucks was the starting RB at the beginning of the season when we won 6 in a row... and we still have Hillis to team with him. There is absolutely.. NO reason... to believe that this Denver team is reliant on Moreno, whatsoever.

[Lonestar]

Until proven otherwise I'd take bucky over moreno at this time. He gets big yards while moreno plugs away for ok yards.

Give me Ypc anyday. BTW not having access to the stats right now how many fumbles have each had.


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[claymore]

I don't really care about total yards as a marker for how valuable a RB is, since I always prefer RBBC over a "featured back" anyway. YPC is a far better indicator, though TD's and short yardage conversions are important as well.

Steve Breaston is averaging 22 yards a carry. You would take him over Buckhalter correct?

[claymore]

Until proven otherwise I'd take bucky over moreno at this time. He gets big yards while moreno plugs away for ok yards.

Give me Ypc anyday. BTW not having access to the stats right now how many fumbles have each had.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

OK you and Dread enjoy Steve Breaston and I will take my 1000 yard rusher/TD scoring RB.

[Ravage!!!]

Both have over 100 carries. Its not like Buck only has 10 carries for the season. Also, have you seen the difference in receiving yardage? Bucks is WAY over Moreno while still leading in YPC over Moreno.

I've watched all the game. What has Moreno done, thus far, that is superior to Bucky?

[claymore]

Both have over 100 carries. Its not like Buck only has 10 carries for the season. Also, have you seen the difference in receiving yardage? Bucks is WAY over Moreno while still leading in YPC over Moreno.

I've watched all the game. What has Moreno done, thus far, that is superior to Bucky?

Carry the ball more than 129 times in a single season.

No matter how you want to spin it, Buck has less yards from scrimmage than Moreno. Less TD's than Moreno, and He is averaging more fumbles per touch than Moreno.

Buck has one stat that is better than Moreno. YPC. He also has 70 something less touches.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Really? This thread has gotten pathetic enough to the fact that running backs and their success is determined about yards per carry and not total yards? LMFAO. Probably one of the most inept comments I've ever heard about football.

So you'd rather take a running back who had 4 carries for 65 yards as opposed to a dude who had 250 for 1,250 yards? LMAO. LOL. OMFG. LEGGOZ.

I wonder if there is a thread with people's first impressions of us signing him. I bet there is.

[claymore]

Really? This thread has gotten pathetic enough to the fact that running backs and their success is determined about yards per carry and not total yards? LMFAO. Probably one of the most inept comments I've ever heard about football.

So you'd rather take a running back who had 4 carries for 65 yards as opposed to a dude who had 250 for 1,250 yards? LMAO. LOL. OMFG. LEGGOZ.

I wonder if there is a thread with people's first impressions of us signing him. I bet there is.



Correll Buckhalter
Attempts Att Yds Avg Lng TD 1st
Attempts 1-Through-10 89 524 5.9 45 1 24

Attempts 11-Through-20 16 39 2.4 10 0 2




Knowshon Moreno
Attempts 1-Through-10 113 470 4.2 36 3 27

Attempts 11-Through-20 66 275 4.2 18 1 14

Attempts 21-Through-30 3 29 9.7 18 1 2

Look at the YPC as the game progresses.

[Requiem / The Dagda]

Stat is too skewed because of the few numbers of carries Moreno had. He shows up at a consistent 4.2-4.3 YPC range; which is fine. It's actually good. To be able to average in that range as a rookie is very impressive. I wish people would realize how counter-intuitive their arguments stating Buckhalter is the better back are. The straws people are grasping too are quite pathetic.

[silkamilkamonico]

I don't think anybody is stating that Buckhalter is a better back. I think the explosive argument is rather good though. Moreno isn't a threat to score from anywhere on the field. Hell, in 187 carries he only has 2 runs that are longer than 20 yards.

Neither is Buckhalter really a threat per say, but he makes bigger plays than Moreno. Moreno just does a great job at the point of attack and doesn't lose yards.


I was all over Moreno last year, looking forward to the draft. I was quite happy we drafted him too. He's also been very good for Denver, but the more I watch him run, the more I miss a young Clinton Portis.

[dogfish]

jerious norwood has a career 5.6 YPC-- steven jackson's is 4.4. . . so would you rather have jerious norwood? is he the better back? buckhalter is what he is and always has been-- an effective change of pace back who can't handle a big workload without breaking down-- badly. . . JMFMCD isn't stupid, there's a very good reason he's giving knowshon more touches despite buck running for a higher average-- and it's NOT because josh wants to lose game! you heard him, he's just trying to win the mother****ing game!

i agree with silk that buckhalter looks more explosive, but he wouldn't look like that if he was asked to carry the load. . . that's what moreno was drafted for. . . it's always easier for the change of pace guy to average bigger YPC. . . michael turner averaged 5.2, 5.9 6.2 and 4.5 the years he was backing up LT, and 4.5 and 4.9 these two years as a starter. . . guys who can carry two or three hundred times in a year and average over 5.0 YPC are incredibly rare. . .

[dogfish]

Bzzzzzzt - Sorry, that answer is incorrect. I could give a Rat's wazoo over total number of yards - just show me that Yards per Carry

Bucky has a much better YPC than Knowshon. Hell, Selvin Young had a better YPC than Knowshon both 06 and 07, and not by a little. Same with Hillis. Same with Tatum Bell. He hasn't shown himself to be much of an improvement over those guys. Buck is another matter - clearly the best RB we've seen in many years - but you can't count on his health.




dread. . . seriously, PLEASE tell me you're joking here. . . . :huh:

tatum bell - career 4.9 YPC
terrell davis - career 4.6 YPC

now go ahead and tell me with a straight face that tatum freaking bell is a better RB than terrell davis. . . .

[Requiem / The Dagda]

I bet he can get you a better cell phone deal.

[DenBronx]

1)Sidney Rice has better hands than Harvin. I'm not even sure where you're trying to go with that argument. He's also been targeted the most. It is also only of late that Harvin has branched into 2 Wr sets, much in the same fashion Moreno now starts. So that argument doesn't hold any weight either way.

2)voters do look at overall performance, which is why Harvin would easily get it over Moreno. He does more in more areas of the game, he has more TD's, and by the number's he's been much more explosive.

3)There's more WR's then RB's, and if you're going to throw Berrian in the solid WR category, I'm throwing Hillis in the solid RB category, which negates any more importance for one player. You also forgot to add that MN would have to look for a kick returner if Harvin went down.


rb's dont catch 80 yard bombs from favre. two differant positions so your argument of being explosive is moot.

throw in hillis if you want but he isnt playing over moreno and is getting very limited look or in late once were up by 20 points late in the 4th. there must be a reason for that ya think?

again, moreno is splitting carries and he has a damn good chance of winning ROY.

[Ravage!!!]

Carry the ball more than 129 times in a single season.

No matter how you want to spin it, Buck has less yards from scrimmage than Moreno. Less TD's than Moreno, and He is averaging more fumbles per touch than Moreno.

Buck has one stat that is better than Moreno. YPC. He also has 70 something less touches.

which would account for the less yardage

[Ravage!!!]

No one is denying that the more times you carry, the chances of your YPC going down. 70 carries is a lot more carries in 13 games... thats 5 carries a game. But look at the receiving yards? That tells me SOMETHING on its own.

Is Buck a better back? Not at this point in his career, BECAUSE Moreno is a rookie. However, if I was looking at both these backs and BOTH were rookies this season... I wouldn't have a single reason to believe that Moreno is better than Buck. I think some of the Moreno backers aren't giving Buck enough credit... and haven't acknowledged the fact that Moreno is getting more carries because of the investment spent on him.

I don't know. I just havent' been OVERLY impressed with Moreno yet, and certainly don't see a drop off from the RB position when Buck is in the lineup instead of Moreno.

[Ravage!!!]

rb's dont catch 80 yard bombs from favre. two differant positions so your argument of being explosive is moot.

throw in hillis if you want but he isnt playing over moreno and is getting very limited look or in late once were up by 20 points late in the 4th. there must be a reason for that ya think?

again, moreno is splitting carries and he has a damn good chance of winning ROY.

Uhmmm. No.

You CAN be explosive from the RB position. YOu can EXPLODE through the hole and be a threat to score from anywhere on the field. Is that something you've seen from Moreno, thus far? Doesn't have a SINGLE thing to do with catching BOMBS from a QB. Explosive can be from both positions.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Both have over 100 carries. Its not like Buck only has 10 carries for the season. Also, have you seen the difference in receiving yardage? Bucks is WAY over Moreno while still leading in YPC over Moreno.

I've watched all the game. What has Moreno done, thus far, that is superior to Bucky?

Score TDs? ;)

[Ravage!!!]

Score TDs? ;)

Fair enough. But again, who's had the most chances down by the goal line?

I'm not a Moreno hater, by any means. I'm just saying that I don't see Moreno being an upgrade... YET. I don't see Buck being a downgrade at the position when he's in there.... THIS year.

But is obviously the better receiver ...and I can see that he's faster. Considering how much Moreno has improved the last couple of games... I'm looking forward to his season next year.

[HORSEPOWER 56]

Fair enough. But again, who's had the most chances down by the goal line?

I'm not a Moreno hater, by any means. I'm just saying that I don't see Moreno being an upgrade... YET. I don't see Buck being a downgrade at the position when he's in there.... THIS year.

But is obviously the better receiver ...and I can see that he's faster. Considering how much Moreno has improved the last couple of games... I'm looking forward to his season next year.

I'm just playing with you Rav. :boink: You asked... :cool:

[Ravage!!!]

I'm just playing with you Rav. :boink: You asked... :cool:

heh.. one of these days I'll learn to stop asking :beer:

[Dreadnought]

dread. . . seriously, PLEASE tell me you're joking here. . . . :huh:

tatum bell - career 4.9 YPC
terrell davis - career 4.6 YPC

now go ahead and tell me with a straight face that tatum freaking bell is a better RB than terrell davis. . . .

TD's YPC got trashed from 1999 on. After TD's knee got blowed up yes, Tatum was the better back, and its not even close. Prior to that? TD may have been one of the best after Jimmy Brown to play the game. He belongs in Canton. BTW, TD's YPC in 95 - 98 were 4.7, 4.5, 4.7, and 5.1. All of which should tell you how useful draft position is in evaluating a RB

And your feeble Tatum Bell attacks are powerless against me, old friend. I was and remain a Tatum Bell backer, and my early disgruntlement with Mcd was in some part started when we didn't even invite the guy to camp after he played his Ass off last year. It was short sighted. Bell's 2005 performance was the best we've seen since, well, Terrell Davis in 1998. He was ungodly good that year, esp. in terms of explosive long runs. Remember the game he single handedly beat the Skins in heavy rain? With Jake stinking up the joint he provided pretty much all the offense we got that day.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

[dogfish]

TD's YPC got trashed from 1999 on. After TD's knee got blowed up yes, Tatum was the better back, and its not even close. Prior to that? TD may have been one of the best after Jimmy Brown to play the game. He belongs in Canton. BTW, TD's YPC in 95 - 98 were 4.7, 4.5, 4.7, and 5.1. All of which should tell you how useful draft position is in evaluating a RB

And your feeble Tatum Bell attacks are powerless against me, old friend. I was and remain a Tatum Bell backer, and my early disgruntlement with Mcd was in some part started when we didn't even invite the guy to camp after he played his Ass off last year. It was short sighted. Bell's 2005 performance was the best we've seen since, well, Terrell Davis in 1998. He was ungodly good that year, esp. in terms of explosive long runs. Remember the game he single handedly beat the Skins in heavy rain? With Jake stinking up the joint he provided pretty much all the offense we got that day.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/boxscores/200510090den.htm

all of which are clearly inferior to the career 5.6 YPC of one jerious norwood-- is he a better back than TD?

[silkamilkamonico]

rb's dont catch 80 yard bombs from favre. two differant positions so your argument of being explosive is moot.

throw in hillis if you want but he isnt playing over moreno and is getting very limited look or in late once were up by 20 points late in the 4th. there must be a reason for that ya think?

again, moreno is splitting carries and he has a damn good chance of winning ROY.

So does Harvin, and he has more TD's. And he plays in 3 facets of the game compared to Moreno who only plays in 2.

[honz]

Wow, we need to trade for Jerious Norwood now!

[DenBronx]

Uhmmm. No.

You CAN be explosive from the RB position. YOu can EXPLODE through the hole and be a threat to score from anywhere on the field. Is that something you've seen from Moreno, thus far? Doesn't have a SINGLE thing to do with catching BOMBS from a QB. Explosive can be from both positions.

that wasnt my point. of course there are explosive rb's. moreno is not one but he is reliable and i think will be very consistant. his ceiling gets only higher and as time goes on we may actually see him break those long runs. right now he is being purely judged and matched up as a rookie vs other rookies. not moreno vs chris johnson or adrian peterson.


So does Harvin, and he has more TD's. And he plays in 3 facets of the game compared to Moreno who only plays in 2.

fair enough but that still doesnt set anything in stone for harvin.

[claymore]

which would account for the less yardage

Im not going to Argue with you Rav. We are Jay Cutler Combat Veterans. That means more to me than YPC. :hug:

[gregbroncs]

I think seeing as how he can't get 50% of the vote on a Broncos Forum is answer enough. He has little to no shot if he can't even get half of the people here to say he's earned it.

[CoachChaz]

It would shock me to see anyone other than Harvin

[BroncoNut]

It would shock me to see anyone other than Harvin

elluva player.

[Ravage!!!]

that wasnt my point. of course there are explosive rb's. moreno is not one but he is reliable and i think will be very consistant. his ceiling gets only higher and as time goes on we may actually see him break those long runs. right now he is being purely judged and matched up as a rookie vs other rookies. not moreno vs chris johnson or adrian peterson.

Right.. but the vote would be Moreno against Harvin.. whom of which IS explosive.

I think Moreno has looked better and better the last couple of games. I have high hopes for him. I have to, considering we used a 1st round pick on him... the expectations were high immediately. But as of right now, he's not explosive, and Harvin is.

[Ravage!!!]

My Favorite quote from a RB... "If you need three yrds, I'll get you three. If you need five yards, I'll get you three."

[CoachChaz]

Right.. but the vote would be Moreno against Harvin.. whom of which IS explosive.

I think Moreno has looked better and better the last couple of games. I have high hopes for him. I have to, considering we used a 1st round pick on him... the expectations were high immediately. But as of right now, he's not explosive, and Harvin is.

I dont think Moreno will ever be "explosive", but I see Curtis Martin written all over him. I'd be pretty damn happy if that's all he ever measured up to be.

[TXBRONC]

Right.. but the vote would be Moreno against Harvin.. whom of which IS explosive.

I think Moreno has looked better and better the last couple of games. I have high hopes for him. I have to, considering we used a 1st round pick on him... the expectations were high immediately. But as of right now, he's not explosive, and Harvin is.

I think Chaz may be on to something in saying Moreno could be Curtis Martin good.

[shank]

when did they change the name of the award to "most explosive rookie of the year?"

[DenBronx]

Right.. but the vote would be Moreno against Harvin.. whom of which IS explosive.

I think Moreno has looked better and better the last couple of games. I have high hopes for him. I have to, considering we used a 1st round pick on him... the expectations were high immediately. But as of right now, he's not explosive, and Harvin is.

ok but your forgetting that consistancy is just as important as being explosive a few games out of the year. harvin has had some monster games but at least moreno does what he does each week and only continues to get better.

[Ravage!!!]

ok but your forgetting that consistancy is just as important as being explosive a few games out of the year. harvin has had some monster games but at least moreno does what he does each week and only continues to get better.

Thats not true at all. Harvin is consistant threat. Moreno may be improving, but he most certainly has not been 'good' for the entire year. He was second back to Bucky.

No matter. Someone here had a great point. If Moreno can't even win the voting on a Denver Bronco site, what kind of chance would he have including the rest of the NFL?

If we were voting, you would vote for Moreno, and I would vote for Harvin.

[Ravage!!!]

when did they change the name of the award to "most explosive rookie of the year?"

Cute. But I think you know the point of using those words when describing the players. What do you think the voters will see when voting? The kind of player that doesn't show up or doesn't stand out?

[MOtorboat]

Oh, hell no...there's no way he's rookie of the year.

Peyton Hillis should be starting over him, anyway...lulz...

[shank]

MO, i hate you right now.

[MOtorboat]

MO, i hate you right now.

It's time for Denver fans to realize that Hillis is not as good as you think he is.

FYI.

[Ravage!!!]

It's time for Denver fans to realize that Hillis is not as good as you think he is.

FYI.

Because you say so?

[MOtorboat]

Because you say so?

Nope, because McDaniels says so.

[honz]

Hillis is probably the most talented RB in the league, MO. Go wash your mouth out with soap.

[Dean]

Here is an "outsiders" opinion, not that this writer is all that. However, Moreno is only mentioned as third on offense.


Dirty Dozen: Rookie(s) of the Year


By Dave Goldberg



The 1996 draft was the best ever for receivers.

It might not retain that status for long if the receivers taken in April's draft continue to improve. In fact, we may look back in a decade at a group headed by Percy Harvin and call it the best ever. Because if it really takes two or three years for receivers to learn their craft in the NFL, this year's group is scary -- a half-dozen and more already are standouts as rookies.

This is a remarkable rookie class at three positions -- wideout, offensive line, and linebacker. (More later on the latter). As the eminence grise of drafts and anti-Kiper, Gil Brandt, pointed out this week, it didn't have many future superstars, but it was deep in good players. That's exactly how it looks after three-quarters of a season.

That draft 13 years ago started with the No. 1 overall pick, Keyshawn Johnson. He had a nice career: 814 catches for 10,571 yards and 64 touchdowns.

But by any standard, he's no better than the third best of the receivers taken that year -- the list starts at No. 1 with Marvin Harrison, the fourth taken at No. 18 (he weighed 168 pounds), and continues with Terrell Owens, the 12th taken, chosen in the third round at No. 89 overall. (That was because T.O. went to Tennessee-Chattanooga, not because teams feared he would become locker-room trouble -- few, if any, knew his personality.)

That '96 group also included Terry Glenn, Eddie Kennison and Eric Moulds in the first round; Amani Toomer, Muhsin Muhammad and Bobby Engram in the second; and Joe Horn in the fifth. A remarkable haul at one position and a group with remarkable longevity -- all played for a decade or more and T.O., Muhammad and Engram are still at it.

Harvin is clearly the best rookie this season, both as receiver and return man.

An all-purpose player who was primarily a running back at Florida, he was, like Harrison, the fourth receiver chosen, falling to 22nd overall because of questionable work habits and because no one was sure he could be a full-time receiver. But not only does he have 48 catches for a 14.2 yards-per-catch average and six touchdowns, he has two TDs on kickoff returns and has run for 113 yards on 13 carries, an average of 8.7 yards.

Predictably, the first wide receiver taken, Darrius Heyward-Bey, is far below some of the others, including his teammate Louis Murphy, a fourth-round pick. Heyward-Bey, whose selection at No. 7 overall shocked everyone but Al Davis, has just nine catches to 23 for Murphy, who has averaged 17.9 yards and has four touchdowns, including the winner at Pittsburgh last week. And that's on a team whose quarterbacking was the worst in the league until Bruce Gradkowski replaced JaMarcus Russell for the last three games.

Some scouts had Murphy, Harvin's Florida teammate, as a late first-rounder -- just about where they had Heyward-Bey, who went where he did because of Davis' obsession with speed (never mind hands or route-running). But given his predictable lack of accomplishment, it says a lot about the Raiders that they took him before a group of receivers who are doing remarkably well at a difficult position to learn at the NFL level.

In order: Michael Crabtree of the 49ers (10th overall), who has played just seven games after a holdout; Jeremy Maclin of the Eagles (19); Harvin (22); Hakeem Nicks, Giants (29); Kenny Britt, Titans (30); Mohamed Massaquoi, Browns (50); Mike Wallace, Steelers (84); Brian Hartline, Dolphins (108); Murphy (124); and Johnny Knox, Bears, a fifth-rounder taken 140th.

There will be more as other players develop, probably a deeper group than 1996 as teams continue to throw more than they run.

On defense, it's been a season for linebackers, led by two from Southern Cal -- Brian Cushing of the Texans and Clay Matthews of the Packers plus another Trojan: Rey Maualuga, taken by the Bengals in the second round. Aaron Curry, the "can't miss'' LB, taken fourth overall by Seattle, hasn't been as good -- not as bad as Heyward-Bey, but still learning his craft.

Here are the top six rookies (plus extra WRs) on offense and defense, none of them taken higher than 10th overall. It doesn't include the first-round QBs, all three of whom -- Matthew Stafford, Mark Sanchez and Josh Freeman -- are characteristically struggling as rookies but may be stars down the line.



Offense:

1.) Harvin (22nd-overall pick): It helps to have Brett Favre at QB. On the other hand, it helps Brett to have Harvin.

2.) Michael Oher, OT, Baltimore (23): Started two games at left tackle, the rest at right tackle and has no holding penalties. He has allowed six sacks, which really isn't bad and shut down Pittsburgh's James Harrison, last season's defensive player of the year. Forget the movie, "The Blindside," which makes him a celebrity. (Also forget the book, specifically the pontificating about how Bill Walsh and Bill Parcells were the first coaches to make left tackle more important than right tackle. That happened when Walsh and Parcells were kids.)

3.) Knowshon Moreno, RB, Denver (12): Moreno's run for 774 yards, a 4.3 average and five touchdowns. He should make it to 1,000.

4.) Phil Loadholt, OT, Minnesota (54): Everyone wants left tackles. This guy has started every game on the right side. Like Oher, he hasn't been flagged for holding.

5.) Andy Levitre, G, Buffalo (51): Yes, a third offensive lineman. Might be the only time these guys get recognized.

6.) Some WRs (tie): Crabtree, Maclin, Nicks, Britt, Wallace, Murphy and Knox.


Defense:

1.) Brian Cushing, LB, Houston (15): He has 102 tackles, three interceptions and 1 1/2 sacks -- not his fault that the Texans have crashed again.

2.) Jairus Byrd, DB, Buffalo (42): Yes, the Bills had a good draft. Byrd fell to the second round because he had a sore leg and didn't run well at the combine or at his workout -- a good reason for scouts to notice how prospects play, not work out. Eight interceptions ties him with the venerable Darren Sharper for the league lead.

3.) Brian Orakpo, LB, Washington (13): A defensive end at Texas, he plays outside in a 3-4 scheme. So he has far fewer tackles than Cushing (40) but more sacks (seven).

4.) Clay Matthews, LB, Green Bay (26): Seven sacks, three forced fumbles. He's not really far from his former college teammate (Cushing at USC) but didn't get to start until a few games into the season.

5.) Jerraud Powers, CB, Indianapolis (92)he Bill Polian factor -- starting cornerbacks get hurt, plug in a third-round rookie and lose nothing. "Shutdown corner'' is a cliche, but this guy is approaching it. He covers the opposition's best receiver on a team that's unbeaten and second in the NFL in points allowed, the only stat that really matters.

6.) 6. James Laurinaitis, MLB, St. Louis (35)Awful team, but he had 97 tackles and two interceptions. Three-down guy who dropped because Ohio State LBs have failed so often.


http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2009/12/09/d...s-of-the-year/


I just don't see Knowshon getting any support outside of Bronco fans.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Moreno is #2...Harvin is the CLEAR #1.

[DenBronx]

Moreno officially wins rookie of the week yet again over Harvin.

CLEARLY this isnt worth debating since Harvin is CLEARLY #1.


pffft yeah right... :laugh:

[Ravage!!!]

Moreno officially wins rookie of the week yet again over Harvin.

CLEARLY this isnt worth debating since Harvin is CLEARLY #1.


pffft yeah right... :laugh:

Doesn't change my opinion. I don't keep track of the weekly "rookie of the week" winners.

[T.K.O.]

if knowshon breaks 1000 yds this week ill give him rookie of the year !
if he only gets 80 yds this week and we win anyway.....he still gets my vote :salute:

[BroncoWave]

I love Michael Oher, watched him play 4 times in college and he has a great story at all, but he hasn't just blown me away this year. I'd definitely give it to Moreno over him at this point. I think if it was any rookie other than Oher that was having the season he's having, that writer doesn't put him anywhere near the top.

[DenBronx]

Doesn't change my opinion. I don't keep track of the weekly "rookie of the week" winners.

well maybe should start.

[Ravage!!!]

why? Weekly popularity contests don't interest me. Just as the weekly "polls" that are up on every sports website.

[BCJ]

He has won the award 4 times this year. Either he is way ahead of all other rookies or the class just isnt producing very good in 2009. Could be a little of both. Knowshon hasnt hit 1000 yards yet but he has made the most of his production.

[dogfish]

nah, moreno will be considered over harvin. harvin would have to blow up.

harvin is 34th in yards and 13th in td's at WR
voted rookie of the week 7, 8

moreno is 13th in yards and 18th in td's at RB
voted rookie of the week 4, 5, 12 (and should get it week 13)

harvins not even in the top 15 in yards recieving.
moreno is splitting carries.


Moreno officially wins rookie of the week yet again over Harvin.

CLEARLY this isnt worth debating since Harvin is CLEARLY #1.


pffft yeah right... :laugh:


bump


Percy Harvin wins the offensive rookie of the year award

Posted by Mike Florio on January 6, 2010 9:04 AM ET
To little surprise, Vikings receiver and kick returner Percy Harvin has been named the Associated Press offensive rookie of the year.

Per the Minneapolis Star Tribune, Harvin picked up 41 of 50 votes. Six votes went to Ravens tackle Michael Oher.

The other three votes were shared by Eagles receiver Jeremy Maclin, Broncos running back Knowshon Moreno, and Steelers receiver Mike Wallace.

Somewhat surprisingly, Jets quarterback Mark Sanchez received none.

Harvin has battled a shoulder injury and a series of migraine headaches during his first NFL season. He finished the year with 60 catches for 790 yards and six touchdowns, and he returned two kickoffs for scores.

With 135 yards rushing, Harvin broke the franchise's single-season record for all-purpose yards, with 2,081.

Asked earlier in the week about the possibility of winning the award, Harvin expressed the kind of maturity that many rookies don't possess. "I've always said since the beginning of the year to win that award and not win the championship is a failure," Harvin told the Star Tribune.

It's been a good few days for Harvins. On Monday, he was added to the Pro Bowl roster as a kick returner.

He's the sixth Vikings player to win the award, joining Adrian Peterson, Randy Moss, Sammy White, Chuck Foreman, and Paul Flatley.

And now Harvin is hoping to be the first of those seven men to couple that award with a Super Bowl title.

_______________________

41 votes for harvin-- one for moreno. . . just he wasn't considered too much after all. . .


sorry man-- just had to mess with ya a little. . . . :D