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BOSSHOGG30
01-30-2008, 07:04 PM
PFW: The way we hear it (broncos)update

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With the draft's MLB pool depleted, Broncos look in other directions


With the decisions made by Ohio State’s James Laurinaitis and USC’s Rey Maualuga to stay in school, and the Broncos coming away from the Senior Bowl not all that impressed with Penn State’s Dan Connor, it appears as though the MLB talent pool is no longer deep enough for them to spend a first-round pick there. That fact, along with the feeling that USC DT Sedrick Ellis, a favorite of the coaching staff, doesn’t figure to last past the 10th pick, makes the likelihood of Denver trading up or down from the No. 12 slot grow stronger by the day. Depending on how they approach their first pick, Curtis Lofton of Oklahoma is considered solid second-round value as a true middle linebacker who would fill the Broncos’ needs there, and Kenny Phillips of Miami (Fla.), although considered a bit overrated by some PFW sources, is the top safety available and should be available early in the second round, as well, should the Broncos go with a defensive or offensive tackle in the first round.



Guess this means we are drafting Dan Conner... :D

silkamilkamonico
01-30-2008, 07:42 PM
Man I hope not.

No immediate help, whatsoever with that pick.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-30-2008, 08:02 PM
You have absolutely no idea how good Connor is.

underrated29
01-30-2008, 08:09 PM
Soooo......

Chris long...maybe?

Wait. Is he the OT? I still think its ellis to trade up, The OT to stay at 12, or down and pick up S and then LB and DT

MOtorboat
01-30-2008, 08:10 PM
Soooo......

Chris long...maybe?

Wait. Is he the OT? I still think its ellis to trade up, The OT to stay at 12, or down and pick up S and then LB and DT

Jake Long won't last until No. 12. Ryan Clady is the OT that will most likely be available there.

underrated29
01-30-2008, 08:11 PM
Jake Long won't last until No. 12. Ryan Clady is the OT that will most likely be available there.

Good call, thanks!

Scarface
01-30-2008, 08:31 PM
Funny that PFW thinks they have any clue what Denver will do.

SmilinAssasSin27
01-30-2008, 08:36 PM
I think if we go OT, the only 2 possible options are Otah and Clady.

How serious is this focus on drafting a MLB? If they have any credibility, sounds like DJ is on his way back outside.

BOSSHOGG30
01-30-2008, 09:01 PM
If Denver wasn't impressed with Dan Conner then why did they interview with him 3 days in a row?

If someone from Denver really did come out and say they aren't impressed with Conner and the linebacker depth in the draft I think it is a smoke screen.

shank
01-30-2008, 09:22 PM
at this time, where is conner projected to go?

i have heard top 10 and i've seen plenty of mocks without him in the 1st...

would we be able to trade down, picking up a 2nd or 3rd and still get conner with the right trade partner?

BOSSHOGG30
01-30-2008, 09:40 PM
at this time, where is conner projected to go?

i have heard top 10 and i've seen plenty of mocks without him in the 1st...

would we be able to trade down, picking up a 2nd or 3rd and still get conner with the right trade partner?

Conner is the #1 Linebacker in the draft... he is a top 15 pick.

dogfish
01-30-2008, 09:47 PM
I think if we go OT, the only 2 possible options are Otah and Clady.

How serious is this focus on drafting a MLB? If they have any credibility, sounds like DJ is on his way back outside.

what's wrong with cherilus? i know he projects to ORT, and getting an LT would be ideal, but there's nothing wrong with a mauler RT who could probably back up the other side in a pinch either. . .



and FTR, they've been saying for a while now that denver is interested in moving dj back to WILL. . . IMO they have plenty of credibility-- they've been around a long time, they're not a bunch of sensationalists, and their coverage is WAAAAAYY more in-dpeth than SI, TSN, or any of that junk. . .


hopefully, if they're talking about connor it really means that they're hoping to get wheeler in the 2nd. . . ahhh, the joys of trying to out guess a paranoid coach who probably does more than anyone else in the league to conceal his real intentions. . . is it draft day yet?

SmilinAssasSin27
01-30-2008, 10:11 PM
I like Cherilus, but at 12 I think it's Otah or Clady.

Shanny is hard to read. Is he unimpressed w/ Conner? Why did he meet w/ him a lot? Did he meet w/ him to make others think he wants him? I don't frickin know, but I'll be giddy if we do get him. If not, gimme mayo in round 2.

Requiem / The Dagda
01-30-2008, 10:11 PM
Funny that PFW thinks they have any clue what Denver will do.

Besides the fact that the PFW War Room Scouts pinned quarterback as the Broncos pick last year, and that they were pretty high on Jarvis Moss?

I'd know about the PFW War Room Scouts on a personal basis, I was able to talk with the guy who broke that news because he sat in with the 49ers when Denver called up in hopes to get in position for a QB.

BOSSHOGG30
01-30-2008, 11:41 PM
This is not the best year to be at #12... Just think... if we had this pick last year we could of had Patrick Willis

ChampWJ
01-31-2008, 12:45 AM
How about we focus on a position that we actually have a need at? You know, not one that we have a young, first rounder playing at who just led the AFC in tackles.

If they really want to move DJ back outside, why not bring back Al Wilson and address that position in the draft in a year or two and shore up the other glaring weaknesses we have this year?

If Denver does draft a linebacker, I'm hoping it's Ali Highsmith.

Zweems56
01-31-2008, 01:31 AM
Besides the fact that the PFW War Room Scouts pinned quarterback as the Broncos pick last year, and that they were pretty high on Jarvis Moss?

I'd know about the PFW War Room Scouts on a personal basis, I was able to talk with the guy who broke that news because he sat in with the 49ers when Denver called up in hopes to get in position for a QB.

Because that wasn't the least bit obvious at all. What does that make me considering I had us picking Eslinger, Dumervil, Marshall, Trading for walker, and picking Maroney (who we would have selected had we not traded up for Cutler). You wanna hire me? I can make predictions too.

Stargazer
01-31-2008, 01:53 AM
I see Denver trading down this year, and that would include dropping out of the 1st round entirely.

Stargazer
01-31-2008, 01:55 AM
If Denver wasn't impressed with Dan Conner then why did they interview with him 3 days in a row?


When did that mean anything?

It's very early in the draft process and a lot can and will change come draft day.

Stargazer
01-31-2008, 02:00 AM
If they really want to move DJ back outside, why not bring back Al Wilson and address that position in the draft in a year or two and shore up the other glaring weaknesses we have this year?



Al is not coming back. His Bronco days are done.

broncofanatic1987
01-31-2008, 07:43 AM
Guess this means we are drafting Dan Conner...


Don't count on it. The Broncos spoke to him at the Senior Bowl.:laugh:
That almost certainly ended any hopes of anyone who wanted him being drafted by the Broncos.;)

I'm hoping for Keith Rivers, Ryan Clady, or Sam Baker in the first round. I don't think there are any reports of the Broncos talking to them.:pray:

Mike
01-31-2008, 09:16 AM
If Denver drafts a LB in the first round I will be disappointed. :tsk:

CoachChaz
01-31-2008, 09:21 AM
I'd rather Kieth Rivers over Connor if a LB was what we were set on drafting.

silkamilkamonico
01-31-2008, 10:36 AM
This is not the best year to be at #12... Just think... if we had this pick last year we could of had Patrick Willis

Someone can still emerge.

Patrick Willis wasn't even hyped to be where he is now until after the combine.

The same can be said for other recent #12's like Merrimen.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 10:54 AM
Someone can still emerge.

Patrick Willis wasn't even hyped to be where he is now until after the combine.

The same can be said for other recent #12's like Merrimen.

If you didn't know Patrick Willis before the combine...then you don't watch much college football.

MOtorboat
01-31-2008, 11:22 AM
If you didn't know Patrick Willis before the combine...then you don't watch much college football.

Yup, that play he made where he faked the blitz got back on a slant route and intercepted the ball one-handed in college was one of the most athletic plays I've ever seen by a college linebacker. I knew right then that he'd be a stud in the NFL.

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 01:28 PM
PFW: The way we hear it (broncos)update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

With the draft's MLB pool depleted, Broncos look in other directions


With the decisions made by Ohio State’s James Laurinaitis and USC’s Rey Maualuga to stay in school, and the Broncos coming away from the Senior Bowl not all that impressed with Penn State’s Dan Connor, it appears as though the MLB talent pool is no longer deep enough for them to spend a first-round pick there. That fact, along with the feeling that USC DT Sedrick Ellis, a favorite of the coaching staff, doesn’t figure to last past the 10th pick, makes the likelihood of Denver trading up or down from the No. 12 slot grow stronger by the day. Depending on how they approach their first pick, Curtis Lofton of Oklahoma is considered solid second-round value as a true middle linebacker who would fill the Broncos’ needs there, and Kenny Phillips of Miami (Fla.), although considered a bit overrated by some PFW sources, is the top safety available and should be available early in the second round, as well, should the Broncos go with a defensive or offensive tackle in the first round.



Guess this means we are drafting Dan Conner... :D

Why do they figure Phillips will go in the 2nd? Not to long ago we were talking about him going before we pick at 12.

Did his stock fall? If so why? I find it hard to believe that they would say he is the best S in the draft then say he will go 2nd round.

I am hoping some good players come from nowhere at the combine. That is normaly the case, If a couple LB's and S clime the ranks that will help clear some things up.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 01:40 PM
Why do they figure Phillips will go in the 2nd? Not to long ago we were talking about him going before we pick at 12.

Did his stock fall? If so why? I find it hard to believe that they would say he is the best S in the draft then say he will go 2nd round.

I am hoping some good players come from nowhere at the combine. That is normaly the case, If a couple LB's and S clime the ranks that will help clear some things up.

Phillips stock has fallen because of Morgan declaring and Castille and Cromartie showed very good skills at the Senior bowl workouts.

CoachChaz
01-31-2008, 01:56 PM
No...Phillips' stock has not fallen that far. He will be a top 15 pick and the top safety taken.

Do not refer to PFW as a reliable or knowledgeable source.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 02:03 PM
No...Phillips' stock has not fallen that far. He will be a top 15 pick and the top safety taken.

Do not refer to PFW as a reliable or knowledgeable source.

Or Mike Mayock right Coach.

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 02:06 PM
Phillips stock has fallen because of Morgan declaring and Castille and Cromartie showed very good skills at the Senior bowl workouts.

Isn't Cromartie a CB?

I am not arguing that Phillips is the best S in the draft. But if he feels soley based on the rise of others. Wouldn't that make them even more coveted then Philips was? The weird thing is that they said Philips is still the best S in the draft. Why would the best S fall to the second round because others at the position climbed?

I agree, the urgency of drafting him would drop with the rise in talent at the position. But dropping him all the way out of the first round? The only way I see that is if he is not the first S taken in the draft. Which of course could be the case. If that is the case he would no longer be the best S in the draft.

If he was right about everything he said that would mean no S's were taken in the first round. IMO, there is just to much need around the league at the position for that to happen

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 02:22 PM
Isn't Cromartie a CB?

I am not arguing that Phillips is the best S in the draft. But if he feels soley based on the rise of others. Wouldn't that make them even more coveted then Philips was? The weird thing is that they said Philips is still the best S in the draft. Why would the best S fall to the second round because others at the position climbed?

I agree, the urgency of drafting him would drop with the rise in talent at the position. But dropping him all the way out of the first round? The only way I see that is if he is not the first S taken in the draft. Which of course could be the case. If that is the case he would no longer be the best S in the draft.

If he was right about everything he said that would mean no S's were taken in the first round. IMO, there is just to much need around the league at the position for that to happen


Cromartie, Castille, and Smith are all listed as CB, but they are projected as S in the NFL.

mclark
01-31-2008, 02:23 PM
Unless we sign a free agent offensive tackle, I think we have to go offensive tackle.

Are we really willing to go with Pears, Kuper, or an untested kid with a bad back (what's his name, Harris) as our starting tackles? I sure hope not. Let's keep Cutler alive so he can be a Super Bowl qb in a couple years.

I wish Lepsis had not retired and we had switched him back to right tackle and only needed one tackle.

Ideal solution: sign Jordan Gross for RT, draft Clady for LT.

turftoad
01-31-2008, 02:26 PM
What about the defense?????????????

mclark
01-31-2008, 02:30 PM
What about the defense?????????????

Draft DEFENSE, DEFENSE, DEFENSE....after the first round.

turftoad
01-31-2008, 02:33 PM
The we miss out on all the blue chippers that would have the ability to even contribute next year. The........... we have the same ole "D" that was horse crap last year.

Slick
01-31-2008, 02:36 PM
We're going to miss on Ellis and Dorsey picking 12 anyway, Phillips? maybe. I think the sentiment here is picking up a LT or moving down, so we don't reach for a defensive player that we could get by trading down or waiting until the 2nd.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 02:49 PM
Wonder what it would cost us to move up to the top 5 to get Dorsey or Ellis?

mclark
01-31-2008, 02:59 PM
We're going to miss on Ellis and Dorsey picking 12 anyway, Phillips? maybe. I think the sentiment here is picking up a LT or moving down, so we don't reach for a defensive player that we could get by trading down or waiting until the 2nd.

I'd feel comfortable with Clady, Phillips, Conner....less so with Rivers since I want us to move DJ back outside. But Rivers would be an upgrade over what we've got. Conner could play in the middle.

If Clady and Phillips are gone, we might look at trading back for an extra second round or a third round pick.

We won't sniff Ellis or Dorsey.

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 03:01 PM
I'm still say we should trade back add another 1st day pick.

Go Balmer, Wheeler, and Castille with the first day picks.

mclark
01-31-2008, 03:02 PM
Wonder what it would cost us to move up to the top 5 to get Dorsey or Ellis?

First and second and a fifth would almost do it.

1700 pick #5

1200 Denver first round
460 Denver second round
36 Denver's fifth round

1696

mclark
01-31-2008, 03:03 PM
I'm still say we should trade back add another 1st day pick.

Go Balmer, Wheeler, and Castille with the first day picks.

What about offensive tackle? Are you willing to go with Pears and Harris?

mclark
01-31-2008, 03:04 PM
I'm still say we should trade back add another 1st day pick.

Go Balmer, Wheeler, and Castille with the first day picks.

I'm in the trade down more than the trade up camp.

tubby
01-31-2008, 03:05 PM
Trade down and select Pat Sims.

Mike
01-31-2008, 03:05 PM
First and second and a fifth would almost do it.

1700 pick #5

1200 Denver first round
460 Denver second round
36 Denver's fifth round

1696

I would say throw in Gold to make up the remaining points...but then figured that would probably end up setting Denver back to 1596 in value.

MHCBill
01-31-2008, 03:08 PM
The we miss out on all the blue chippers that would have the ability to even contribute next year. The........... we have the same ole "D" that was horse crap last year.
We're not going to win the Super Bowl in '08 so think big picture.

2009 and so on...

I'm starting to lean in the direction of taking a LT in round one, but my one concern is will they start right away. Assuming they do, GOD I hope they don't suck!

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 03:19 PM
This is the highest draft pick the Broncos have had in a long time. I would hope they use it wisely. I would do whatever I needed to do to land Ellis or Dorsey. We have our ends... we have Thomas, but we need that one more DT to man up next to them. Linebackers are easy to find. We have two of the best corners in football and we need help at safety unless Shanny knows something we don't know on Abdullah, Cargile, Rogers, Vickiel Vaughn, and Marviel Underwood,

Slick
01-31-2008, 03:25 PM
We're not going to win the Super Bowl in '08 so think big picture.

2009 and so on...

I'm starting to lean in the direction of taking a LT in round one, but my one concern is will they start right away. Assuming they do, GOD I hope they don't suck!

I agree. Too many needs to address in one off season.

I know squat about Connor, but unless he's the second coming of Randy Gradishar, I don't want to see a LB in our 1st round pick. Well if we traded down and got an extra first day pick, I guess.

I just think the current tackles we have aren't the answer, and I don't like the idea of Ramsey behind center.

Slick
01-31-2008, 03:27 PM
This is the highest draft pick the Broncos have had in a long time. I would hope they use it wisely. I would do whatever I needed to do to land Ellis or Dorsey. We have our ends... we have Thomas, but we need that one more DT to man up next to them. Linebackers are easy to find. We have two of the best corners in football and we need help at safety unless Shanny knows something we don't know on Abdullah, Cargile, Rogers, Vickiel Vaughn, and Marviel Underwood,

I don't want to sacrifice next years draft to do that.

I agree either one of those two DT's would be ideal, but is it realistic?

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 03:54 PM
I don't want to sacrifice next years draft to do that.

I agree either one of those two DT's would be ideal, but is it realistic?

If we trade Bly or Foxworth for a 3rd or 4th round pick we would add another pretty high percentage of success pick.

1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 7th, 7th

That is a lot of picks to move up into the top 10.

Take a look at what we have right now and look a couple years down the road. We need to find a LT (maybe, Ryan Harris? or Pears?), #2 WR (maybe), OLB or MLB (depending on D.J.), FS, SS (maybe), DT, FB, P

8 positions of need

If could actually trade up for Ellis or Dorsey and still have a late round pick for FB, P

Free Agent is key.... If we can sign Lance Briggs we are saving draft picks and getting one of the best linebackers in the game.

That would live us with issues at Safety if the young group of guys we have don't come through, LT if our young group of guys don't come through, and we would still need a #2 if Walker doesn't work out. But we still have next years draft to work on those 3 areas of need plus free agency if we don't get lucky with a guy in the later rounds with the picks we still have after trading up to get Dorsey or Ellis.

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 03:57 PM
I don't want to sacrifice next years draft to do that.

I agree either one of those two DT's would be ideal, but is it realistic?

We could draft 8 players and all of them combined not have as much impact as Ellis. Did you watch the senior bowl? Ellis was incredible. They renamed him unblockable. I know these were Collage kids but they were some of the best in the draft. He looked like a man playing with boys. They could not stop him even with the double team.

Is there even any doubt he could bust? Players like him are few and far between. If we could trade up to get him we should do it. He comes in and starts period. He could anchor our D-line for years to come. I was in the mind set to trade back but after watching him play at the senior bowl I would not be upset if we traded our 2nd and 5th to get him.

He is a stud. I can just imagine him collapsing the pocket every play and freeing up Elvis and Moss on the outside. I truly believe, if we got him we could forget about the D-line for years to come. Look at the youth we would have there. Man, if we could pick up a top S and LB in FA/Trade, our defense would be set for a long time...

BOSSHOGG30
01-31-2008, 03:59 PM
If we get Ellis or Dorsey and Free Agent Lance Briggs we are already a better defensive team.

Totally worth all the picks to move up.

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 04:11 PM
If we get Ellis or Dorsey and Free Agent Lance Briggs we are already a better defensive team.

Totally worth all the picks to move up.

If we get one of those guys we are already a better defensive team.. If we got both, we go from the bottom half to the top just like that.

Look at the last 10 years of the draft, how many DT's of Ellis and Dorsey's caliper have there been? That alone tells me if at all possible, we should do what it takes to make that pick.

Teams with the top D-Lines are in every game. Look at all the crappy teams with great D-lines. You get to the QB you win games. Would the Giants be anywhere close to the Superbowl if the didn't have that D-line? Would the Titans have came close to the playoffs without their D-line?

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 04:23 PM
If we get Ellis or Dorsey and Free Agent Lance Briggs we are already a better defensive team.

Totally worth all the picks to move up.

I am so tired of the hopeless feeling at the end of games when the other team has the ball. How long has it been sense we've had a great front 7?

If we do nothing on offense, and got Briggs and Ellis this off season I would be ecstatic. Just the fact Elvis will no longer have the double team on passing downs is exciting. We would be awesome!

broncohead
01-31-2008, 04:48 PM
Drafting Elis would be ideal but giving up 3 of our top draft picks (most likely something else) just to land one guy. I like him. He's a great player but we have other needs. If he makes it to the 7th pick I would be willing to trade up but anything before that is to much IMO. We have other positions to address than just DT.

Slick
01-31-2008, 06:03 PM
Fc, Hogg, if we could do something with Foxy, and some of this years picks to scoot up and get your guy, I'd be all for it. I agree that 1 good DT, is what we need most.

Your scenario seems doable. You sold me.

fcspikeit
01-31-2008, 07:10 PM
Fc, Hogg, if we could do something with Foxy, and some of this years picks to scoot up and get your guy, I'd be all for it. I agree that 1 good DT, is what we need most.

Your scenario seems doable. You sold me.

I had excepted the fact we were not going to get Dorsey and that we had an outside chance at best of getting Ellis. I figured it might be best to trade back and get a 3rd.

That changed after watching Ellis at the senior bowl. I got excited about seeing him in Orange and Blue. Then I got thinking, if he continues to rise, we might even have a shot at Dorsey? The best thing that can happen for us is that some of the QB's in this draft have great showings at the combine. If Bal and Atl both take QB's that will really help us out! Even then, I just don't see Dorsey or Eliss falling to 12. We will have to trade up, however, Bal might trade with us knowing they can get their QB at 12. We might have a shot at one or the other with the 8th pick.

There is only 200 points between 12th and 8th. That is about the same as a mid to high 3rd rounder. Foxy might be worth that much. I don't know if Bal would be willing to trade our 1st and foxworth for their 1st but even if they didn't. Maybe we could trade Foxy for a 3rd then trade that 3rd with our 1st for their 1st.

NE is picking at 6th. 400 points between 6th and 12th. Word is, they are looking for CB, Maybe we could trade them our 1st, Foxworth, and one of our 4th's or 5th's for their 1st? They would get their CB and be able to get the LB they also need with the 12th.

IMO, either of those trades would be great! This should be a fun off season :D

Lonestar
02-01-2008, 12:07 AM
I had excepted the fact we were not going to get Dorsey and that we had an outside chance at best of getting Ellis. I figured it might be best to trade back and get a 3rd.

That changed after watching Ellis at the senior bowl. I got excited about seeing him in Orange and Blue. Then I got thinking, if he continues to rise, we might even have a shot at Dorsey? The best thing that can happen for us is that some of the QB's in this draft have great showings at the combine. If Bal and Atl both take QB's that will really help us out! Even then, I just don't see Dorsey or Eliss falling to 12. We will have to trade up, however, Bal might trade with us knowing they can get their QB at 12. We might have a shot at one or the other with the 8th pick.

There is only 200 points between 12th and 8th. That is about the same as a mid to high 3rd rounder. Foxy might be worth that much. I don't know if Bal would be willing to trade our 1st and foxworth for their 1st but even if they didn't. Maybe we could trade Foxy for a 3rd then trade that 3rd with our 1st for their 1st.

NE is picking at 6th. 400 points between 6th and 12th. Word is, they are looking for CB, Maybe we could trade them our 1st, Foxworth, and one of our 4th's or 5th's for their 1st? They would get their CB and be able to get the LB they also need with the 12th.

IMO, either of those trades would be great! This should be a fun off season :D


why would they want foxworth?

fcspikeit
02-01-2008, 02:25 AM
why would they want foxworth?

By They do you mean New England or Baltimore?

A lot of the mock drafts I've seen have NE taking a CB with their first pick. I suppose a lot of it depends on whether or not they resign Samuel.. What else would they take, QB, WR, RB? LOL. They don't have many holes to fill. CB and LB seem to be their only real need

As for Baltimore, WalterFootball has them taking a CB in the second round. http://walterfootball.com/draft2008_2.php They have them taking a QB in the first round. If they don't take a QB in the 1st, they will probably look for a CB. Depending who's on the board. When they pick at 8 the top CB looks to be taken, if they trade back to 12 they should be able to still get the QB they want because none of the teams ahead of them except Atl are looking for a QB. Atl is picking ahead of them even at 8 so there really is no need in picking a QB at 8. They can get the same guy at 12. If they got Foxworth they could fill another hole with their 2nd. Even if Foxworth don't work out, what are they really out? They will have got the same QB at 12 they would have got at 8.

Lorcust
02-01-2008, 05:19 AM
This is not the best year to be at #12... Just think... if we had this pick last year we could of had Patrick Willis

Willis went 11th overall...

MHCBill
02-01-2008, 09:07 AM
Caution Caution Caution...

I really like Ellis too. That said, in the Senior Bowl he was playing against marginal interior offensive lineman. None of which will be drafted within the first two rounds of the draft.

He will not look as impressive against NFL professionals.

By the way, I would love to have him.

BOSSHOGG30
02-01-2008, 09:11 AM
I find is funny that Denver said Connor was unimpressive considering Connor had 9 tackles and an interception in the Bowl game and I was at the Senior Bowl and saw Connor being interviewed by Denver scouts 3 days in a row, plus from what I saw Conner and Wheeler were by far the best linebackers in practices.

HolyDiver
02-01-2008, 09:45 AM
I find is funny that Denver said Connor was unimpressive considering Connor had 9 tackles and an interception in the Bowl game and I was at the Senior Bowl and saw Connor being interviewed by Denver scouts 3 days in a row, plus from what I saw Conner and Wheeler were by far the best linebackers in practices.


We hear it every year Boss, you know that..............It seems like from late January right up until the draft, we are taking a Tackle with our #1 pick...............I try to look between the lines when Shanahan or any member of the Broncos organization makes a comment about a player..............That's why I think when Shanahan said that Selvin Young wasn't durable enough, he was hoping only to inspire Young to perhaps gain 5-7 pounds and become a little stronger this offseason to ensure he'll have a healthier 2008 season....................If we do draft Connor, I hope we trade back atleast 10 spots to do it, picking up no less than a very early 3rd round pick, if not a mid to late 2nd round. ................Then use our own 2nd round, mabe even throwing in a 4th to draft Trevor Laws, the DT from Notre Dame, that impressed the hell out of me at the Senior bowl.

fcspikeit
02-01-2008, 12:59 PM
We hear it every year Boss, you know that..............It seems like from late January right up until the draft, we are taking a Tackle with our #1 pick...............I try to look between the lines when Shanahan or any member of the Broncos organization makes a comment about a player..............That's why I think when Shanahan said that Selvin Young wasn't durable enough, he was hoping only to inspire Young to perhaps gain 5-7 pounds and become a little stronger this offseason to ensure he'll have a healthier 2008 season....................If we do draft Connor, I hope we trade back atleast 10 spots to do it, picking up no less than a very early 3rd round pick, if not a mid to late 2nd round. ................Then use our own 2nd round, mabe even throwing in a 4th to draft Trevor Laws, the DT from Notre Dame, that impressed the hell out of me at the Senior bowl.


I like the way you think! :salute:

Laws impressed me all week. They said his name everyday. IMO he would have been the best DT at the Senior Bowl had Eliss not played so well. If we could get Laws in the second it would definitely easy the blow of missing Ellis in the first.

I really don't know that much about Laws? Its clear he can play when he puts his mind to it. My question is, why was there no buzz around him coming into the Senior Bowl? Does he take plays off when the spotlight isn't on? I can't imagine him playing like that all year and them not considering him close to the top of the DT class.

I really liked Wheeler too. If we can't reasonable get to Ellis, We could trade back in the 1st, pick up a high 3rd, get Connor or Wheeler in the first then grab Laws with our second. I would be really happy with that.

I doubt we could get a high 3rd though. If we traded for the 20-24th pick in the 1st we would probably get the 20-24th pick in the 3rd. Unless we traded with a team that had someone else's 3rd. If we traded low enough, we could probably get a low 2nd. There is 400 points between the 12th and 20th pick. the 20th pick in the second round is worth 380 points. So, we could trade our 12th 1st for the 20th 1st & 2nd and still have 20 points to spare :) the 20th pick in the 6th round is worth 19.4. We might even be able to get the 6th to go with it.

So yeah, if we traded back 10 spots as you mentioned, we could most certainly pick up a 2nd + extra picks.

Scarface
02-02-2008, 09:07 AM
Caution Caution Caution...

I really like Ellis too. That said, in the Senior Bowl he was playing against marginal interior offensive lineman. None of which will be drafted within the first two rounds of the draft.

He will not look as impressive against NFL professionals.

By the way, I would love to have him.

All he has to do is be half as dominant as he was in the SB and he'll be worth it.

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 09:58 AM
Is he worth what it would cost to move up 5-7 slots knowing that many other needs will not get addressed?

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 10:02 AM
That all depends on the cost. If the team ahead of Cincy will take our #12, Foxxy and a future #2...hell yes!

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 10:04 AM
I just think it will be much more expensive than that package.

I'm thinking our #1, #2, and a #4/#5.

I can't see it going for much less than that.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 10:17 AM
Well...Baltimore is at #8, which is where we'd have to get to to jump Cincy. that is only a 200 point difference on the draft chart (pick #78=200). I really don't even think we'd need the future #2 if we included Foxxy...who they will need sooner than later w/ their aging CBs.

http://www.nfldraftblitz.com/pick_value_chart.htm

Scarface
02-02-2008, 10:20 AM
I can't see Ellis slipping that far. If he does we should make a move. Him and Thomas side by side would be insanity.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 10:23 AM
Agreed...the only thing I originally didn't like about him was his lack of size. He's definitely bulked up and still seems fast as F.

BRONCOSFREAK765
02-02-2008, 10:34 AM
If we trade Bly or Foxworth for a 3rd or 4th round pick we would add another pretty high percentage of success pick.

1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th, 4th, 4th, 5th, 5th, 7th, 7th

That is a lot of picks to move up into the top 10.

Take a look at what we have right now and look a couple years down the road. We need to find a LT (maybe, Ryan Harris? or Pears?), #2 WR (maybe), OLB or MLB (depending on D.J.), FS, SS (maybe), DT, FB, P

8 positions of need

If could actually trade up for Ellis or Dorsey and still have a late round pick for FB, P


Free Agent is key.... If we can sign Lance Briggs we are saving draft picks and getting one of the best linebackers in the game.

That would live us with issues at Safety if the young group of guys we have don't come through, LT if our young group of guys don't come through, and we would still need a #2 if Walker doesn't work out. But we still have next years draft to work on those 3 areas of need plus free agency if we don't get lucky with a guy in the later rounds with the picks we still have after trading up to get Dorsey or Ellis.

why would we think of trading bly. i am sure someone would be willing to give us a 3rd or 4th for walker. if foxworth doesnt go this year, he will leave for more money elsewhere next year.

MOtorboat
02-02-2008, 10:37 AM
why would we think of trading bly. i am sure someone would be willing to give us a 3rd or 4th for walker. if foxworth doesnt go this year, he will leave for more money elsewhere next year.

...don't worry, Boss thinks this is Madden...

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 10:39 AM
The only chance we would have at Ellis/Dorsey if one falls to #5 (1700pts)... maybe if we're lucky #6 (1600pts). That would cost us our #1 (1200pts) and our #2 (480pts).

So, would you do either of these options assuming Ellis/Dorsey are there?

Option #1 (#5 overall) = #1, #2 and Foxy for #5 overall

Option #2 (#6 overall) = #1 and #2 for #6 overall and 4th round pick

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 10:48 AM
The only chance we would have at Ellis/Dorsey if one falls to #5 (1700pts)... maybe if we're lucky #6 (1600pts). That would cost us our #1 (1200pts) and our #2 (480pts).

So, would you do either of these options assuming Ellis/Dorsey are there?

Option #1 (#5 overall) = #1, #2 and Foxy for #5 overall

Option #2 (#6 overall) = #1 and #2 for #6 overall and 4th round pick

But Foxxy is equal to a 2nd rounder. A CB w/ experience who learned from Champ for over 3 years...No way we need to give up that much if Foxxy is included.

Also, if he makes it past oakland, he CAN get to #8. I don't think the Cheifs, Pats or Jets go DT.

BOSSHOGG30
02-02-2008, 10:55 AM
why would we think of trading bly. i am sure someone would be willing to give us a 3rd or 4th for walker. if foxworth doesnt go this year, he will leave for more money elsewhere next year.

I don't think they will, but I wouldn't put it past Shanny. I'm just not sure how much they like Foxworth. If Shanny really likes him he may sign Foxworth and trade Bly. If he doesn't care for Foxworth he may trade Foxworth and keep Bly. I don't see them both sticking around. Especially with Paymah around and him showing signs of improvement last season.

MHCBill
02-02-2008, 11:20 AM
But Foxxy is equal to a 2nd rounder. A CB w/ experience who learned from Champ for over 3 years...No way we need to give up that much if Foxxy is included.

Also, if he makes it past oakland, he CAN get to #8. I don't think the Cheifs, Pats or Jets go DT.Smilin'... with all due respect what makes you think Foxy is worth a #2?

Not your opinion, but actual case evidence that any other CB in the NFL with Foxy's production has ever been traded for a #2.

It won't happen.

Italianmobstr7
02-02-2008, 12:20 PM
Smilin'... with all due respect what makes you think Foxy is worth a #2?

Not your opinion, but actual case evidence that any other CB in the NFL with Foxy's production has ever been traded for a #2.

It won't happen.

Randy Moss was had for a 4th....

silkamilkamonico
02-02-2008, 12:22 PM
Maybe Foxorth would be a lot cheaper than Bly?

Foxworth is arguably not a #2 CB, but Bly is hardly worth the amount of money he gets.

I also think their weaknesses even out and are essentially the same player. If we can keep Foxworth for considerably less money than Bly is getting I would be all up for it.

Drill-N-Fill
02-02-2008, 12:26 PM
Maybe Foxorth would be a lot cheaper than Bly?

Foxworth is arguably not a #2 CB, but Bly is hardly worth the amount of money he gets.

I also think their weaknesses even out and are essentially the same player. If we can keep Foxworth for considerably less money than Bly is getting I would be all up for it.


I really don't think Bly had that bad of a year. Considering, our corners do play more man than any other team. Although Bly, is certainly not worth all that much, would have looked a lot better with an average d-line in front of him.

WARHORSE
02-02-2008, 12:32 PM
If we wanted to trade up into the top five, it would take next years number one, since we are trying to keep as many picks as possible this year. Our number one this year along with next years would put us top five.

Foxworth was a third round draft pick, and he can play when given the chance. He just hasnt had much time at #1 or #2 CB. The most playing time he had was in his rookie season when Champ got hurt. He played well, even got a couple of picks if I remember correctly.

The number one thing to draft for in using our first rounder, is a player who STARTS, and makes an impact. Once again, I'll say drafting a bench warmer is going to do what? I dont care what we draft in the first, but whatever position, I want that person to start. If we dont think we're going to get a good starter, then trade up, or trade out.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-02-2008, 12:32 PM
Smilin'... with all due respect what makes you think Foxy is worth a #2?

Not your opinion, but actual case evidence that any other CB in the NFL with Foxy's production has ever been traded for a #2.

It won't happen.

New England a first rounder for a no better than average WR from Seattle...a team who seems to know what they are doing.

Moss was a perceived headcase at the time who only had 1 or 2 offers.

silkamilkamonico
02-02-2008, 12:45 PM
Although Bly, is certainly not worth all that much, would have looked a lot better with an average d-line in front of him.

That argument can be made for Foxworth also.

Bly is almost a mirror image of Deltha O Neal. He does some great things by making some big plays, but he also gives up big plays because he's trying to make big plays. A CB making the kind of money he's making shouldn't be giving up all those big plays, IMHO.

fcspikeit
02-02-2008, 11:39 PM
Maybe Foxorth would be a lot cheaper than Bly?

Foxworth is arguably not a #2 CB, but Bly is hardly worth the amount of money he gets.

I also think their weaknesses even out and are essentially the same player. If we can keep Foxworth for considerably less money than Bly is getting I would be all up for it.

If what your saying is true then we wouldn't get any better trade value out of bly right? WRONG!

We could get a 2 for Bly. IMO Foxworth has proven he can start.. He might not be worth a #2? But he has proven more then anyone on the draft board. and some of those guys are looking to go in the first. Sure they have more upside. But teams have a good idea of what they will get with Foxworth. In other words, he wont bust. If a team needed a CB and there was no need for them to keep there high pick, I can see them making the trade.

I mean if they can get the same guy they wanted at 12 why not? QB for instance, there is only 2 teams in the top 10 looking for a QB. With no real chance of loosing their guy, I can see them adding a solid 3rd or 2nd CB like Foxworth, as long as they feel they can still get who they wanted anyways.

Bly is a good corner! He doesn't tackle well but what CB does? He would be the #1 guy on most teams. I really don't see why so many are down on him?

ALL CB's get beat! Harris got owned by PB and he is considered among the best in the league. He was playing 1 on 1 just like Bly was for most the year. I didn't see Bly get beat anymore in 1 on 1 then any other CB in the league.

MHCBill
02-03-2008, 09:47 AM
New England a first rounder for a no better than average WR from Seattle...a team who seems to know what they are doing.

Moss was a perceived headcase at the time who only had 1 or 2 offers.
That's a WR, not CB.

Second, Deion Branch coming off Super Bowl MVP showed a considerable amount more production than Foxy.

Again, trading Foxy as a #2 ain't happening.

BOSSHOGG30
02-03-2008, 10:20 AM
I like Foxworth... I think he has more upside if he could stick to one position. I also think he is a more complete player than Bly. Bly might have more playmaking ability, but Foxworth is a decent tackler and above average cover corner. Plus, Foxworth wouldn't cost as much, he is younger, and he plays special teams.

SmilinAssasSin27
02-03-2008, 11:26 AM
That's a WR, not CB.

Second, Deion Branch coming off Super Bowl MVP showed a considerable amount more production than Foxy.

Again, trading Foxy as a #2 ain't happening.

and CBs are harder to comeby than WRs

topscribe
02-03-2008, 11:32 AM
I really don't think Bly had that bad of a year. Considering, our corners do play more man than any other team. Although Bly, is certainly not worth all that much, would have looked a lot better with an average d-line in front of him.

With a decent pass rush and run support in front of him, I maintain Bly would
have looked more like the Pro Bowler he has been. I believe the Broncos should
first get a "normal" front seven, then judge the secondary under "normal"
circumstances. Truth is, the secondary hasn't had that advantage for a while.

-----

MHCBill
02-03-2008, 11:41 AM
and CBs are harder to comeby than WRs

I guess we agree to disagree.

I think there is no chance that any NFL team will equate Foxy's worth as a #2 draft pick.

Requiem / The Dagda
02-03-2008, 01:33 PM
If Denver thought that Domonique Foxworth was a quality #2 corner; they wouldn't have traded for Dre Bly and gave him a big contract. Denver's not going to dump Bly; and Foxworth is the most likely guy in the defensive backfield to be used as bait to acquire more picks or talent.

I like Foxworth too, he's a community leader and an all-around good guy, but just an average to above average football player. He has not excelled at either corner or safety, but has proved to be valuable to this team. I'd hate for him to leave; but there's no way Bly is getting axed. Champ and Dre is the best cornerback tandem in the league. There are average cornerback units who get more production because of the lines in front of them. Denver still doesn't have that, so their secondary suffers.

No NFL team is going to give a second round choice for an average football player, and given the quality this year at cornerback (no elite guys, but solid first, second and third rounders - even so on) there's no way a teams going to do it. The top ten guys in this class probably will end up better than Foxworth is in my opinion. Depending on how you'd rate the guys, I'd say most have more pro potential.

Denver went overkill in 2005 drafting three cornerbacks. Tragically, Williams is no longer with us; but he could have been the player that Dre Bly has been and still can be with a little help. It was fitting Denver acquired someone just like Williams (play wise) to fill his void. Foxworth has proved to be a serviceable starter, and and adequate overall player. Paymah still has potential, and I've said for two years he'd be the one we'd keep long term around here, pending what happened with Foxworth/Williams.

As mentioned earlier, Denver invested a vote of "no confidence" in Domonique Foxworth when they acquired Dre Bly. Foxworth wants to play corner, and he's not getting to start here any time soon. I'd say he has at best late third round value; but that's probably being sincere. Al Wilson, a 5 time Pro-Bowler was only worth a third rounder, and that was before his medical records raised a flag. If we got a fourth for Foxworth, I'd be pleased - but I'd rather him stay around and help compete this year, even with limitations. Then again, get something for him now - than seeing him walk in 2009.

gobroncsnv
02-03-2008, 10:46 PM
With a decent pass rush and run support in front of him, I maintain Bly would
have looked more like the Pro Bowler he has been. I believe the Broncos should
first get a "normal" front seven, then judge the secondary under "normal"
circumstances. Truth is, the secondary hasn't had that advantage for a while.

-----

We saw tonight how good a great pass rush made the Giants corners look. Madison has seen better days earlier in his career, but the CB's kept a FABULOUS offense (that emphasizes the pass, by the way) in check, off the field, and out of the end zone enough to win a game. My fervent hope is that this lesson will convince the folks who count that Denver needs to invest in the best dline we can get. The "skill" players have a chance to step up when you control the line of scrimmage.
Like TOP said, the corners (plural, meaning BOTH of them) we have are a lock for the ProBowl if we could generate a pass rush.

And, for the record, doesn't Brady look great with all those green smudges on his uni???

SmilinAssasSin27
02-03-2008, 10:58 PM
Agreed. We need to get Sedrick Ellis in teh middle and a LB or 2 who can also pressure the QB.

Lonestar
02-03-2008, 11:08 PM
We saw tonight how good a great pass rush made the Giants corners look. Madison has seen better days earlier in his career, but the CB's kept a FABULOUS offense (that emphasizes the pass, by the way) in check, off the field, and out of the end zone enough to win a game. My fervent hope is that this lesson will convince the folks who count that Denver needs to invest in the best dline we can get. The "skill" players have a chance to step up when you control the line of scrimmage.
Like TOP said, the corners (plural, meaning BOTH of them) we have are a lock for the ProBowl if we could generate a pass rush.

And, for the record, doesn't Brady look great with all those green smudges on his uni???

I have always believed the adage




Offense wins games,

Defense wins championships..

I hope mikey was watching tonight..Maybe he will FINALLY realize that we need to fill the gaping hole at DT with a stud..

topscribe
02-03-2008, 11:14 PM
I have always believed the adage




Offense wins games,

Defense wins championships..


I hope mikey was watching tonight..Maybe he will FINALLY realize that we need to fill the gaping hole at DT with a stud..

. . . or two. :coffee:

-----

Rick
02-03-2008, 11:20 PM
I believe that the younglings of Doom, Crowder, Moss at DE and Thomas at DT all have a great future and will be dominating someday if they are in a system that turns them loose.

But we still need another stud DT to be paired with Thomas to get it done.