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Lonestar
12-06-2009, 10:27 PM
McDaniels, Haley match resumes today
By Anthony Cotton
The Denver Post
Posted: 12/06/2009 01:00:00 AM MST
Updated: 12/06/2009 01:44:08 AM MST


If a guy wants to learn how to become an NFL head coach, there are worse places to sit than at the feet of Bill Parcells, as Todd Haley did, first with the New York Jets and later with the Dallas Cowboys.

According to Haley, the Big Tuna would nurture the little guppy.

"He always did a very good job of talking to me like I'd be a head coach someday," Haley said, referring to Parcells pointing out the hows and whys of his decisions and reminding him to always be aware of the big picture.

That said, Haley, the first-year head coach of a Chiefs team that will welcome the Broncos to Arrowhead Stadium this morning, admits that once you actually get to sit in the big chair, there are some things that all the nurturing in the world can't prepare you for. Things like a running back who not only doesn't gain yards, but calls you out on Twitter. Or deciding to fire your offensive coordinator just days before the start of the regular season.

"There are things every day that, no matter how much thought you put into it as you've moved along in your career, that you're not quite ... I don't want to say that you're not ready for them, but you're not expecting them," Haley said. "But again, I'm 11 weeks into this. I believe each week is a learning experience, and I think as long as you take each one of them and grow, that you have a chance to succeed."

If there is a unifying theme for the first-time coaches in the NFL's class of 2009, it would have to be the wide variety of, ahem, learning experiences. Haley and his decision to fire offensive coordinator Chan Gailey and the ugly showdown with Larry Johnson might not even come in second on the eyebrow-raising meter in comparison to his sideline counterpart today, the Broncos' Josh McDaniels, or another AFC West rival, Oakland's Tom Cable.

All McDaniels has had to deal with — among other concerns — are Jay Cutler, whom he traded, and Brandon Marshall, whom he suspended; smack-talking with opposing teams before the game; and his idea of a quiet Thanksgiving prayer with his offensive line.

Cable, who took over the job after serving as an interim coach in 2008, has been under fire much of the season because of allegations of domestic abuse.

In some ways, St. Louis' Steve Spagnuolo, Tampa Bay's Raheem Morris and Jim Schwartz of Detroit have it easy. All they've had to worry about are their crummy teams, which have a combined four victories and 29 losses.

Even one of the relatively brighter lights, Rex Ryan of the Jets, who are nominally in playoff contention with a 6-6 record, is probably getting a recurring earful from his tough-as-nails dad, Buddy, not only for the waterworks that seem to accompany his weekly news conferences but also for enlisting Yankees manager Joe Girardi last week to help teach his rookie quarterback Mark Sanchez how to slide.

The photo-op/grandstanding ploy didn't work. Sanchez was injured when he went head-first Thursday night instead of doing an MLB-approved hook slide.

"If I don't fit the stereotype of coachspeak, so be it," said Ryan, who has made fun of his tearfulness by pulling out a box of tissues before addressing the media. "I'm going to always be myself."

The same can be said for McDaniels. His tirade before the game against the San Diego Chargers brought him a measure of rebuke from some corners of the league — Titans coach Jeff Fisher saying that coaches

need to control their emotions better that that. He implied that the episode might have a negative effect when it comes to attracting free agents.

But that theory was pooh-poohed by Kyle Orton. Throughout the season, no one on Denver's team has been laced into like the Broncos' quarterback. Orton spent his previous four NFL seasons playing for one the league's most laid-back coaches, Lovie Smith, admitting, "He never tore into me like (McDaniels) has."

Even so, Orton said he preferred playing for McDaniels, a thought that was seconded by Kansas City quarterback Matt Cassel, who came into his own last season while working under McDaniels, who was the offensive coordinator of the New England Patriots at the time.

"Josh has a fiery side about him, no question," Cassel said. "He has a great intensity and he'll let you know when he's upset. He works hard at what he does. He was always pushing me to get better. He's a great coach in that regard."

During his pregame news conference last week, McDaniels was asked to fill in the blank: "This job is more — what? — than I thought it would be."

"Fun," said the coach. "It's a lot of fun. I don't think that it's anything I didn't expect it to be. There are things that happen on a day-to-day basis that you don't know about until you get into this position, but I think the daily challenges and focuses and other things like dealing with the draft and the offseason, have been fun."

Anthony Cotton: 303-954-1292 or acotton@denverpost.com
http://www.denverpost.com/premium/broncos/ci_13936851

KCL
12-06-2009, 11:09 PM
Todd Haley is an ass of a coach...he makes me miss Marty,Vermiel and Herm..:rolleyes:

Lonestar
12-06-2009, 11:12 PM
Todd Haley is an ass of a coach...he makes me miss Marty,Vermiel and Herm..:rolleyes:


From what I have seen and that is not much give him another year maybe 5 if he is still losing to DEN each year..:D

Ravage!!!
12-06-2009, 11:15 PM
Todd Haley is an ass of a coach...he makes me miss Marty,Vermiel and Herm..:rolleyes:

Saw him AGAIN getting into it with another WR.. just like he did with Bowe, and how he did with Boldin when in AZ.

I have to agree with you KCL, the guy is an ass. Its not a coincidence that the teams that fired their OC just weeks before the opening game are failing.

jhildebrand
12-06-2009, 11:25 PM
Saw him AGAIN getting into it with another WR.. just like he did with Bowe, and how he did with Boldin when in AZ.

I have to agree with you KCL, the guy is an ass. Its not a coincidence that the teams that fired their OC just weeks before the opening game are failing.

Bobby Wade had no business trying to one hand that ball! He should have been on him like stink on shit. The problem is the team doesn't respect him as evidenced by Wade's reaction to Haley (Mouthed F*** YOU). I would have benched him the rest of the game to teach him that you play the right way or you don't play at all. Problem is, if Haley did that, he would be Mike Singletary.

KCL
12-06-2009, 11:31 PM
Bobby Wade had no business trying to one hand that ball! He should have been on him like stink on shit. The problem is the team doesn't respect him as evidenced by Wade's reaction to Haley (Mouthed F*** YOU). I would have benched him the rest of the game to teach him that you play the right way or you don't play at all. Problem is, if Haley did that, he would be Mike Singletary.

Well like my husband said and he is no fan of Haley's...these guys are professionals and that's debateable about some of the Chiefs...these guys are making big bucks to play a kid's game and if he can't hack the coach getting onto him then he oughta find another job...hell half the passes that Cassel threw were dropped...some weren't good passes at all but alot of them were catchable.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:53 AM
Bobby Wade had no business trying to one hand that ball! He should have been on him like stink on shit. The problem is the team doesn't respect him as evidenced by Wade's reaction to Haley (Mouthed F*** YOU). I would have benched him the rest of the game to teach him that you play the right way or you don't play at all. Problem is, if Haley did that, he would be Mike Singletary.

If I hadn't already seen this reaction from other players.. and other players on other teams at which I respect (Boldin).. then I would have said its the player. Problem is, this isn't the first. This guy was said to be hated by the players when in AZ. You don't know what the coach said, and if you don't think it matters.. thats fine.

Yeah.. the player SHOULD have attempted with two hands... and there is a right way to chew players out. But if they already think of you as a complete *** hole, from which you have earned from prior exchanges with the players.. they aren't going to take your words to be anything OTHER than being an *** Hole. Thats Haley's problem. He's NEVER played on a team, and doesn't have a friggin clue how to deal with teammates.

Haley isn't a Mike Singletary. The players RESPECT Singletary. They LIKE Singletary. Singletary knows how to treat players. How to talk with players, and has their respect as a person, a player, and a coach. Haley doesn't have ANY of that.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:57 AM
Well like my husband said and he is no fan of Haley's...these guys are professionals and that's debateable about some of the Chiefs...these guys are making big bucks to play a kid's game and if he can't hack the coach getting onto him then he oughta find another job...hell half the passes that Cassel threw were dropped...some weren't good passes at all but alot of them were catchable.

see.. this is it.. imo. These kids have been coached and taught since they were in gradeschool. They KNOW how to take coaching and criticisms. That doesn't all of a sudden change once you hit the NFL, despite some of the people claiming these players simply wish to ignore because of their paycheck. The coach STILL has to coach, and be a coach, before anyone will take their insults lightly.

Haley obviously has a serious problem in how to talk with players. The only common denominator between all the confrontations between he and the players... is him.

KCL
12-07-2009, 01:00 AM
see.. this is it.. imo. These kids have been coached and taught since they were in gradeschool. They KNOW how to take coaching and criticisms. That doesn't all of a sudden change once you hit the NFL, despite some of the people claiming these players simply wish to ignore because of their paycheck. The coach STILL has to coach, and be a coach, before anyone will take their insults lightly.

Haley obviously has a serious problem in how to talk with players. The only common denominator between all the confrontations between he and the players... is him.

I am not a fan of Haley and the Chiefs stunk today but Wade couldn't catch the ball if his life depended on it.

DenBronx
12-07-2009, 01:06 AM
Haley comes accross as an ass. I don't like how he treated Boldin and several players in AZ and he seems to be doing the same in KC. Players do turn on coaches so it wouldnt suprise me if this begins to escalate. Vermiel was a really good coach and I'm not sad in the least that he's not in KC anymore cuz that would mean playoffs for you.

jhildebrand
12-07-2009, 11:53 AM
If I hadn't already seen this reaction from other players.. and other players on other teams at which I respect (Boldin).. then I would have said its the player. Problem is, this isn't the first. This guy was said to be hated by the players when in AZ. You don't know what the coach said, and if you don't think it matters.. thats fine.

I understand that Haley is hated. In fact, there was a pretty good program that went over Haley in training camp and you could see he rubbed the players the wrong way. However, to compare Boldin to this situation isn't exactly fair. Boldin had, and still does, major contract and medical staff concerns with the Cards.



Yeah.. the player SHOULD have attempted with two hands...
Absolutely. Wade is no Boldin. :fight:



and there is a right way to chew players out. But if they already think of you as a complete *** hole, from which you have earned from prior exchanges with the players.. they aren't going to take your words to be anything OTHER than being an *** Hole. Thats Haley's problem. He's NEVER played on a team, and doesn't have a friggin clue how to deal with teammates.

So players should, or can, disrespect their coach because he didn't play pro ball or organized sports? You do know plenty of NFL coaches have HS experience and very limited or no college experience and no time in the pros i.e. McDaniels and Shanahan? I think the idea that the locker room or players disrespect a coach because he didn't play is foolish and naieve at best. After all, Haley has been in, around, or part of an NFL team longer than other head coaches. Bill Parcells knows plenty about the NFL and coaching talent-just ask Bill Belichek. Parcells thought the world of Haley. By the way, KC had these problems last year too and their coach last year was a guy who played at every level and was a stud at DB for Philli in the SB! How did that work out again? :confused:

Finally, it seems that Haley is being held to the standard that he is supposed to be a Professional yet the players are not being held to the same standard.

Don't get me wrong, I don't care for Haley one bit but I don't see any circumstance under which Haley would be wrong for getting after Wade. All Wade had to do was what he is paid to do. That game might have been different if KC jumped to an early lead. Wade seemed more concerened about making ESPN's top 10. In fact, Haley is the only reason Wade is in the league right now after MN unceremoniously showed him the door. They did that for a reason you know! IIRC, He was their leading pass catcher last season and nobody knew how their slate of young WR's would work out. Now he bites the hand that feeds him and receives no criticism for it, all the blame lies with Haley :tsk:



Haley isn't a Mike Singletary. The players RESPECT Singletary. They LIKE Singletary. Singletary knows how to treat players. How to talk with players, and has their respect as a person, a player, and a coach. Haley doesn't have ANY of that.

Singletary had to earn the team's respect and it didn't come easy. In fact, it came under similar circumstances with Vernon Davis. The only difference was Singletary had the nads to not only bench Davis, a high draft pick not some scrub like Bobby Wade, but he sent him to the locker room.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:07 PM
I don't have a SINGLE problem with a coach getting ONTO or even yelling at Wade. My point is that Haley MUST have some serious issues with his ability to communicate or teach players. They don't react well to him. How many times do we have to see players yelling BACK at the guy to realize that its not the words or the message, but HOW he must be saying it? Of course Wade needed to be corrected. Coaches correct all the time, but Haley obviously is an ass, and the players think of him as an ass, and don't respond to how HE is saying it or WHAT he is saying.

I feel that Singletary always had the players respect. He not only played, but has been coaching for a long time in the NFL. He was coaching them before he was named HC, and he had to set an example that acceptance of sub-par play wasn't going to be the same as it was 'last week.' If I had seen several players yell at, to, or with Mike Singletary, I would say the same thing. If this was the FIRST time I'd seen it with Haley, I wouldn't have the stance I have now (Boldin's problem with Haley had NOTHING to do with the Cardinals or the medical issues).

KCL
12-07-2009, 12:09 PM
From what I have seen and that is not much give him another year maybe 5 if he is still losing to DEN each year..:D

Denver hell..you mean losing in general? ;)

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:15 PM
Wade seemed more concerened about making ESPN's top 10. In fact, Haley is the only reason Wade is in the league right now after MN unceremoniously showed him the door. They did that for a reason you know! IIRC, He was their leading pass catcher last season and nobody knew how their slate of young WR's would work out. Now he bites the hand that feeds him and receives no criticism for it, all the blame lies with Haley

Couple things here. ONE.. you don't know what Haley said to get that kind of reaction in return. COnsidering Haley's history with players, and the fact that we've never seen or heard Wade have this reaction at all anywhere else, WITH anyone else.... I feel pretty confident that Haley has a problem with the way he 'delivers' his corrections.

TWO. Please. Haley isn't the GM, he isn't in charge of player personnel, and we don't know where he (wade) would have ended up if the Chiefs didn't hire him. Don't make it sound as if there wouldn't be any other options for the kid.

THree. LOTS of players are shown the door, and there is always a reason. Look how many players we have on our roster that were unceremoniously shown the door. That goes for Orton, Dawkins, Stokely, Buckhalter, Champ, and so many other players on our team.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:16 PM
Denver hell..you mean losing in general? ;)

No no.. we like you beating SD and Oak! :beer:

KCL
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
No no.. we like you beating SD and Oak! :beer:

Well we can beat Oakland..as for SD...they're just too good for KC to beat.

jhildebrand
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
I don't have a SINGLE problem with a coach getting ONTO or even yelling at Wade. My point is that Haley MUST have some serious issues with his ability to communicate or teach players. They don't react well to him.

Pure speculation on your part, Ravage.



How many times do we have to see players yelling BACK at the guy to realize that its not the words or the message, but HOW he must be saying it?

So McD is wrong for the way Marshall got after McD? Dave Campo, a HIGHLY respected position coach, MUST be at fault for his confrontation with Terrence Newman last month.

Boldin had his most famous dispute with Haley because Haley took him out of the game and Boldin FELT HE WASOWED AN EXPLANATION right there. The coach is trying to win a game and doing what he SEES best to win (which they did). Seems to me the player is out of line. If the coach wants you out he wants you out and doesn't owe you an explanation at least not right at that moment. Whisenhunt even said afterwards that coach sideline issues are common place.



Of course Wade needed to be corrected. Coaches correct all the time, but Haley obviously is an ass, and the players think of him as an ass, and don't respond to how HE is saying it or WHAT he is saying.

Again pure speculation. Short of being there, how do you know that?



I feel that Singletary always had the players respect. He not only played, but has been coaching for a long time in the NFL. He was coaching them before he was named HC, and he had to set an example that acceptance of sub-par play wasn't going to be the same as it was 'last week.' If I had seen several players yell at, to, or with Mike Singletary, I would say the same thing. If this was the FIRST time I'd seen it with Haley, I wouldn't have the stance I have now (Boldin's problem with Haley had NOTHING to do with the Cardinals or the medical issues).

The only difference between Haley and Singletary is Singletary KNOWS, possibly from playing, that you have to follow through just as he did with Vernon Davis. If it all were about playing in the NFL than Shanahan would have stunk for not knowing the player/team/locker room dynamic, McDaniels would be struggling almighty. That is my point in all of this YOU HAVE TO EARN YOUR RESPECT and part of that is showing the players you mean business. Like or not, McD earned it in his handling of Cutler and Marshall. He made it clear no player is bigger than team. Haley had that opportunity yesterday and failed. His mentor, Bill Parcells would never have let Wade back in the game. Ultimately, IMO, that is why Haley will fail! Not because he hasn't played in the NFL because he has been in the league longer than some current coaches. He will fail because the inmates are running the asylum. He had a chance to send a message that you play the right way or you don't play. He didn't seize the opportunity to take control of his team and after Wade's antics yesterday, which followed LJ's, it will only be that much easier for the next person on the team to be blatantly insubordinant.

jhildebrand
12-07-2009, 12:27 PM
By the way, here an old blog that discuss Singeltary's lack of control and respect in the locker room.

http://blogs.suntimes.com/fullcourtpress/2008/10/singletary_shakes_things_up.html

There are plenty more.

jhildebrand
12-08-2009, 12:36 PM
Couple things here. ONE.. you don't know what Haley said to get that kind of reaction in return. COnsidering Haley's history with players, and the fact that we've never seen or heard Wade have this reaction at all anywhere else, WITH anyone else.... I feel pretty confident that Haley has a problem with the way he 'delivers' his corrections.

You make it sound like I am speculating more than you, Rav. Really, the fact remains that if Wade would have played the game the way it should be played and just used two hands to catch the ball, he wouldn't have gotten what he did. It was completely avoidable on Wade's part.

Second, you ignore the fact that Wade is known to have a mouth. After all, he is the one who created the firestorm, just before the season began, between Cutler and Urlacher.



TWO. Please. Haley isn't the GM, he isn't in charge of player personnel, and we don't know where he (wade) would have ended up if the Chiefs didn't hire him. Don't make it sound as if there wouldn't be any other options for the kid.


Got nothing for you. Damn! :tsk:



THree. LOTS of players are shown the door, and there is always a reason. Look how many players we have on our roster that were unceremoniously shown the door. That goes for Orton, Dawkins, Stokely, Buckhalter, Champ, and so many other players on our team.

Orton wasn't shown the door the way Wade was, he was traded. Wade was cut and he was his teams leader for receptions. He was cut just before the season. Champ was traded. Dawkins chose a slightly better offer from Denver. He wasn't cut.

Ravage!!!
12-08-2009, 12:44 PM
You make it sound like I am speculating more than you, Rav. Really, the fact remains that if Wade would have played the game the way it should be played and just used two hands to catch the ball, he wouldn't have gotten what he did. It was completely avoidable on Wade's part.
Doesn't that go for ALLL mistakes made on the field? Again, I'm not saying that Wade didn't deserve correction. Hell, I applauded McDaniel's ass-chewing on our sideline. So I don't have a problem with coaches getting on a player's butt. But I think Haley has some serious issues at being a dick-head, and the players know it as much as you and I do.


Second, you ignore the fact that Wade is known to have a mouth. After all, he is the one who created the firestorm, just before the season began, between Cutler and Urlacher.
I do admit I know nothing about that/this.



Orton wasn't shown the door the way Wade was, he was traded. Wade was cut and he was his teams leader for receptions. He was cut just before the season. Champ was traded. Dawkins chose a slightly better offer from Denver. He wasn't cut.

Well... none of the examples were the same as Wade, and that was intentional. All the players were shown the door one way or the other. Whether they threw them into the trade for someone else (the team showed him the door rather than keep him) whether it was a trade because the player wanted more money (Bailey wanted more money, Portis wanted more money, and neither Denver nor Washington chose to keep the players... thus showed them the door by trading them away), or.. like Dawkins, the team wasn't interested in paying him enough to keep him. Thus they chose to show him the door rather than give him more money. All are being shown the door... just as all aquired FA players are. One way or the other, they weren't wanted by their former teams. :beer:

Ravage!!!
12-08-2009, 12:50 PM
To respond to your above post...

McDaniels doesn't have a history of getting into it with players on the sidelines.. Haley does

Campo doesn't have a history and pattern of getting into it with players on the sidelines.. Haley does.

So your comparisons arent the same to me.

As far as you saying that Haley doesn't follow through, you are forgetting that he didn't start Bowe ( his best receiver) for several games because Bowe wasn't "playing it right" or whatever you said there.

I think you are exaggerating Wades attempt at that pass.

You say all my comments are speculation, but then go on some BIG speculation on your own about reasons for his future failure. I'm not arguing your opinion, but I think that Haley has shown me enough to believe that whatever he says TO the players, or HOW he says it....isn't working and I think its because he has NO clue how to talk/communicate with players (or people for that matter)

jhildebrand
12-09-2009, 01:02 AM
I'm not arguing your opinion, but I think that Haley has shown me enough to believe that whatever he says TO the players, or HOW he says it....isn't working and I think its because he has NO clue how to talk/communicate with players (or people for that matter)

Completely fair. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Haley one bit but I do think it is fun to play devil's advocate once in a while. Even if it means getting my ass handed to me somtimes
:behindsofa: <---------me avoiding Rav for a while.

rcsodak
12-10-2009, 12:56 AM
Todd Haley is an ass of a coach...he makes me miss Marty,Vermiel and Herm..:rolleyes:

:laugh:


It's ok, kc....you can say his first name.



We all understand....:coffee:






:lol:

rcsodak
12-10-2009, 12:59 AM
Saw him AGAIN getting into it with another WR.. just like he did with Bowe, and how he did with Boldin when in AZ.

I have to agree with you KCL, the guy is an ass. Its not a coincidence that the teams that fired their OC just weeks before the opening game are failing.

Did you MISS the play? He could have laid out for that pass. It could have been HUGE for them. But instead, he wanted to score by catching it in stride.

And it's not like the idiot didn't miss half a dozen other balls in that game.

He deserved getting chewed out.

Dumbass Fouts even thought he was sucking hind teet!

Ravage!!!
12-10-2009, 01:10 AM
Did you MISS the play? He could have laid out for that pass. It could have been HUGE for them. But instead, he wanted to score by catching it in stride.

And it's not like the idiot didn't miss half a dozen other balls in that game.

He deserved getting chewed out.

Dumbass Fouts even thought he was sucking hind teet!

Again.. read my posts. I said over and over again that I don't have a single problem with the WR getting chewed out, yelled at, or slapped :lol: But I'm saying that Haley OBVIOUSLY has a problem with what he's saying, how he's saying it, or SOMETHING that every other coach knows how to do.

Like I ALREADY said (and I know you don't read the responses before you post on threads that are days old).... if Haley didn't already have a history of this happening with OTHER players, I would have thought that Wade is the problem. But when you see a history of this happening with different players, on different teams, then I tend to lean in the direction of the common denominator.

rcsodak
12-10-2009, 01:19 AM
Again.. read my posts. I said over and over again that I don't have a single problem with the WR getting chewed out, yelled at, or slapped :lol: But I'm saying that Haley OBVIOUSLY has a problem with what he's saying, how he's saying it, or SOMETHING that every other coach knows how to do.

Like I ALREADY said (and I know you don't read the responses before you post on threads that are days old).... if Haley didn't already have a history of this happening with OTHER players, I would have thought that Wade is the problem. But when you see a history of this happening with different players, on different teams, then I tend to lean in the direction of the common denominator.

Well guess what, rav....


ALL 'managers' use different tactics/skills, when relating to their subordinates.

Unless it's a 'legal' issue, if you want to keep your job, you MIGHT want to a)NOT get yelled at by your mgr, or b)learn to DEAL with how your mgr handles tough situations.

I had one ******* that would simply respond "dbmpbms" anytime I posed a question to him. I learned how to deal with him.

Hell, McD has stated publicly, that the players need to listen to his MESSAGE, and NOT how it comes out!

Maybe the TV cameras shouldn't be so overzealous with their sideline shots!

KCL
12-10-2009, 07:04 AM
:laugh:


It's ok, kc....you can say his first name.



We all understand....:coffee:






:lol:

Filter rc filter...:lol:

KCL
12-10-2009, 11:51 AM
Again.. read my posts. I said over and over again that I don't have a single problem with the WR getting chewed out, yelled at, or slapped :lol: But I'm saying that Haley OBVIOUSLY has a problem with what he's saying, how he's saying it, or SOMETHING that every other coach knows how to do.

Like I ALREADY said (and I know you don't read the responses before you post on threads that are days old).... if Haley didn't already have a history of this happening with OTHER players, I would have thought that Wade is the problem. But when you see a history of this happening with different players, on different teams, then I tend to lean in the direction of the common denominator.

I have to agree with rc here...sure Haley can be as ass...but I had no problem with him getting on Wade about his poor play or how he got onto him...he was trying to get a message across and if Wade didn't like it..TFB...He's getting paid to catch the ******* ball and as rc pointed out..that one pass wasn't the ONLY one he dropped or didn't catch at all.

topscribe
12-10-2009, 01:40 PM
I'm not sure McDaniels thinks a whole lot of Haley, either.

Did you see the handshake (to use the term loosely) after the game?

-----

KCL
12-10-2009, 02:16 PM
I'm not sure McDaniels thinks a whole lot of Haley, either.

Did you see the handshake (to use the term loosely) after the game?

-----

I didn't...but I've seen several games where coaches really don't acknowledge one another.

Haley inherited a terrible team...damn no wonder the guy is an ass...:lol:

Ravage!!!
12-10-2009, 05:47 PM
I have to agree with rc here...sure Haley can be as ass...but I had no problem with him getting on Wade about his poor play or how he got onto him...he was trying to get a message across and if Wade didn't like it..TFB...He's getting paid to catch the mfing ball and as rc pointed out..that one pass wasn't the ONLY one he dropped or didn't catch at all.

UGH.. AGAIN!! :lol: I 'm not saying Haley was BAD about getting on Wade's case!!

I'm saying.. again.... that there MUST be SOMETHING about HOW Haley is jumping on these players case.. or WHAT he is saying..because Wade is NOT the only player to jump back into Haley's face, and this isn't the only team for it to happen on. Wade is NOT the only player to get into a yelling match with Haley on the sideline. AGAIN.. if this was the only time, and the only player to react as he did, I would say it was a WADE problem, but since this seems to be a RE-OCCURRING event with WRs and how they react to Haley, I think it just MIGHT be a Haley problem. Plus, that ONE pass is the only one that counts (in this incident) because the others happened AFTER that long pass and yelling match. The other dropped passes didn't lead to it.

YES YES YES..(again..god.. YES).... Haley had every friggin right to be upset.

KCL
12-10-2009, 07:05 PM
UGH.. AGAIN!! :lol: I 'm not saying Haley was BAD about getting on Wade's case!!

I'm saying.. again.... that there MUST be SOMETHING about HOW Haley is jumping on these players case.. or WHAT he is saying..because Wade is NOT the only player to jump back into Haley's face, and this isn't the only team for it to happen on. Wade is NOT the only player to get into a yelling match with Haley on the sideline. AGAIN.. if this was the only time, and the only player to react as he did, I would say it was a WADE problem, but since this seems to be a RE-OCCURRING event with WRs and how they react to Haley, I think it just MIGHT be a Haley problem. Plus, that ONE pass is the only one that counts (in this incident) because the others happened AFTER that long pass and yelling match. The other dropped passes didn't lead to it.

YES YES YES..(again..god.. YES).... Haley had every friggin right to be upset.

Well whatever Rav...he's the coach and like I said...the players are getting paid to make plays...they screw up...the coach lets them know it...every coach has their own way of coaching and letting players know they're not happy with them...I guess maybe if you were a coach...I would take your opinion more serious...what's a coach suppose to do? Pat them on the back and say it's ok that you screwed up and let it go...as far as I'm concerned maybe just maybe Wade or whoever it is he is chewing out will get the message and learn how to take some constructive criticism.

Ravage!!!
12-10-2009, 08:42 PM
Completely fair. Don't get me wrong, I don't like Haley one bit but I do think it is fun to play devil's advocate once in a while.

OMG!!! Can you come back to this debate?

I'm going bald by pulling my hair out here......

KCL
12-10-2009, 10:43 PM
OMG!!! Can you come back to this debate?

I'm going bald by pulling my hair out here......

:lol:

Leave your hair alone...you're wrong and everybody else isn't.

jhildebrand
12-10-2009, 10:45 PM
I have to agree with rc here...sure Haley can be as ass...but I had no problem with him getting on Wade about his poor play or how he got onto him...he was trying to get a message across and if Wade didn't like it..TFB...He's getting paid to catch the mfing ball and as rc pointed out..that one pass wasn't the ONLY one he dropped or didn't catch at all.

IIRC, plenty of KC players were dropping easy passes. I am not sure of Haley's reaction to them because CBS didn't show them. However, Haley had the opportunity to send a message by simply sitting Wade. He could have sat him a series, a quarter, a half, or the game! The bottom line is Haley said something to him and nothing more and that is his failure IMO. The great coaches take action and let their team know who is in charge and who will be listened to! Singletary sat Vernon Davis actually sent him to the locker room. Parcells sat plenty. At some point you have to let your actions do the talking.

All that said, I do have believe Rav brings up a valid point on Haley and his 'communication issues.' This certainly is nothing new for him. Even though some of these players are still 'kids' they are professionals and expect to be spoken to like a man or professional.

At the end of the day all Wade had to do was make the routine play. There is no CONCEIVABLE reason in that situation to go for that ball with one arm.

KCL
12-10-2009, 11:11 PM
IIRC, plenty of KC players were dropping easy passes. I am not sure of Haley's reaction to them because CBS didn't show them. However, Haley had the opportunity to send a message by simply sitting Wade. He could have sat him a series, a quarter, a half, or the game! The bottom line is Haley said something to him and nothing more and that is his failure IMO. The great coaches take action and let their team know who is in charge and who will be listened to! Singletary sat Vernon Davis actually sent him to the locker room. Parcells sat plenty. At some point you have to let your actions do the talking.

All that said, I do have believe Rav brings up a valid point on Haley and his 'communication issues.' This certainly is nothing new for him. Even though some of these players are still 'kids' they are professionals and expect to be spoken to like a man or professional.

At the end of the day all Wade had to do was make the routine play. There is no CONCEIVABLE reason in that situation to go for that ball with one arm.

Quit backtracking...I read your earlier post...:lol:

you know what they say about opinions? ;)

jhildebrand
12-11-2009, 12:24 PM
Quit backtracking...I read your earlier post...:lol:

you know what they say about opinions? ;)

I'm not really back tracking in any way.

The funny thing about all of this is my younger brother (a football coach) and I were talking about players going for one handed catches routinely when there is no need to. I had just finished telling him I couldn't coach because I would sit a player the rest of the game regardless of when it happened even if it meant a loss. Not even 30 seconds later Wade pulled his shenanigans.

IMHO, there really isn't too much Haley could have said in that situation that would have been wrong. After all, we always hear players use the "heat of the moment excuse." :tsk: Even if that were the case, Haley should have still sat Wade, even more so after his reply to the coach.

I dont think it is coincidence that LJ had no respect for the coach (and organization) and now another player is testing the limits. Brian Waters next?

KCL
12-11-2009, 12:48 PM
I'm not really back tracking in any way.

The funny thing about all of this is my younger brother (a football coach) and I were talking about players going for one handed catches routinely when there is no need to. I had just finished telling him I couldn't coach because I would sit a player the rest of the game regardless of when it happened even if it meant a loss. Not even 30 seconds later Wade pulled his shenanigans.

IMHO, there really isn't too much Haley could have said in that situation that would have been wrong. After all, we always hear players use the "heat of the moment excuse." :tsk: Even if that were the case, Haley should have still sat Wade, even more so after his reply to the coach.

I dont think it is coincidence that LJ had no respect for the coach (and organization) and now another player is testing the limits. Brian Waters next?

LJ is a bitch...that's the only comment I have on him...Bowe went and got himself suspended..maybe that's why Wade wasn't benched...I really don't know.

The underlined statement...I agree with.

topscribe
12-11-2009, 12:59 PM
Well whatever Rav...he's the coach and like I said...the players are getting paid to make plays...they screw up...the coach lets them know it...every coach has their own way of coaching and letting players know they're not happy with them...I guess maybe if you were a coach...I would take your opinion more serious...what's a coach suppose to do? Pat them on the back and say it's ok that you screwed up and let it go...as far as I'm concerned maybe just maybe Wade or whoever it is he is chewing out will get the message and learn how to take some constructive criticism.

Nope . . . not when the player fired back like he did and told him where he could go.

Somehow, I get the impression that wouldn't happen with McD . . . more than once . . .

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CoachChaz
12-11-2009, 01:04 PM
The flip side is the human aspect. I can see a coach getting pissed and telling me why, but if something is said that offends my intelligence and basic rights as an adult human being...you can be sure I'm saying something back. Same holds true at a regular job. If my boss belittled me, I'd have words with him as well.

So...if it was a scenario like that, then i dont blame Wade or anyone else for getting back at the coach. And if you bench/suspend me...it better be for my actions and not my words.

KCL
12-11-2009, 01:14 PM
IMO...This whole thing is more than likely being blown out proportion.I think when a team is playing as bad as the Chief are...people are going to lose their tempers...whether that is right or wrong and people don't agree with it...it is what it is...I would imagine that coach Haley and Wade sat down and had a talk after both of them had time to cool off.

It's like when LJ was crying over having to sit on the bench while Priest Holmes started...Holmes gets hurt and Vermeil told LJ it was time to take the diaper off...I know several people who thought Vermeil's choice of words were not appropriate.

CoachChaz
12-11-2009, 01:17 PM
IMO...This whole thing is more than likely being blown out proportion.I think when a team is playing as bad as the Chief are...people are going to lose their tempers...whether that is right or wrong and people don't agree with it...it is what it is...I would imagine that coach Haley and Wade sat down and had a talk after both of them had time to cool off.

It's like when LJ was crying over having to sit on the bench while Priest Holmes started...Holmes gets hurt and Vermeil told LJ it was time to take the diaper off...I know several people who thought Vermeil's choice of words were not appropriate.

If the shoe fits...I'm all for it. But if I bust my butt every week and then out of the blue get berated for a mistake...different story

KCL
12-11-2009, 01:25 PM
If the shoe fits...I'm all for it. But if I bust my butt every week and then out of the blue get berated for a mistake...different story

I agree...I think everyone has a different take on how things are handled.

jhildebrand
12-11-2009, 02:54 PM
IMO...This whole thing is more than likely being blown out proportion.

I totally agree.



I think when a team is playing as bad as the Chief are...people are going to lose their tempers...whether that is right or wrong and people don't agree with it...it is what it is....

I think that is what makes the situation all the worse. It's little plays like that one that could easily be made that can be the difference in momentum or a game. It speaks to discipline and playing fundamentally sound football.

I know we're beating a dead chief here but the bottom line is the Chiefs are just BAD.

Dreadnought
12-11-2009, 03:40 PM
:lol:

Leave your hair alone...you're wrong and everybody else isn't.

Yup, Spoken like a wife....

KCL
12-11-2009, 03:58 PM
Yup, Spoken like a wife....

:tsk:

CoachChaz
12-11-2009, 04:02 PM
:tsk:

You can be my wife KC

KCL
12-11-2009, 04:04 PM
I know we're beating a dead chief here but the bottom line is the Chiefs are just BAD.
As opposed to beating a dead donkey...:lol:

And yea the Chiefs are bad...very bad...I have said that several times!

KCL
12-11-2009, 04:06 PM
You can be my wife KC

You mean that? huh huh? Is that a promise? :D

CoachChaz
12-11-2009, 04:06 PM
You mean that? huh huh? Is that a promise? :D

Depends. Are you good in the kitchen and the bedroom?

KCL
12-11-2009, 04:08 PM
Depends. Are you good in the kitchen and the bedroom?

Chaz...I have already had a mod edit one of my post in this thread...I better not answer this...at least not in this thread...:D

CoachChaz
12-11-2009, 04:10 PM
Chaz...I have already had a mod edit one of my post in this thread...I better not answer this...at least not in this thread...:D

Then you have 2 choices. You can either just say YES...or PM me and give me something to think about when I go to sleep tonight.

Cugel
12-11-2009, 04:30 PM
Forget that! What we want is the School of Hard Knockers! (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6268242&style=ice) :laugh:

(Sorry! I just couldn't resist!)

KCL
12-11-2009, 04:31 PM
then you have 2 choices. You can either just say yes...or pm me and give me something to think about when i go to sleep tonight.

lmao

KCL
12-11-2009, 04:32 PM
Forget that! What we want is the School of Hard Knockers! (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6268242&style=ice) :laugh:

(Sorry! I just couldn't resist!)

You better be careful there Mister...the mods (well a mod) is watching this
thread close...real close...:shocked:

topscribe
12-11-2009, 04:36 PM
Forget that! What we want is the School of Hard Knockers! (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=6268242&style=ice) :laugh:

(Sorry! I just couldn't resist!)

Old stomping grounds, Cug? :coffee:

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