PDA

View Full Version : Hey, how about that Hillis RB



Pages : [1] 2

Dean
12-06-2009, 04:11 PM
:eek: The kid is a player and should have gotten more time in short yardage.:confused:

Seven carries for 47 yards and the first hit never brought him down. In fact, the first hits hardly fazed him.

weazel
12-06-2009, 04:13 PM
I like Hillis, but to be fair, he was a fresh player coming in to beat on a physically and emotionally drained KC team.

Northman
12-06-2009, 04:16 PM
Bucky and Moreno were fine today.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 04:16 PM
KC didn't even have their starting defense out, and even their starting D is awful. hillis is a FB not a RB, and he's not that great.

shank
12-06-2009, 04:17 PM
hilllis deserves a bigger role on offense.

Northman
12-06-2009, 04:17 PM
Hillis is good, i dont know why people knock him but there is only so many balls that can go around and Moreno and Buck ran the ball well.

Dean
12-06-2009, 04:18 PM
KC didn't even have their starting defense out, and even their starting D is awful. hillis is a FB not a RB, and he's not that great.

Keep telling yourself that. IMO he is a solid short yardage back that is hell to tackle.

P.S. Who from their starting front seven was not in there?

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:22 PM
I could have had fifty yards on the ground against the Chiefs in garbage time today. This thread sucks.

shank
12-06-2009, 04:23 PM
I could have had fifty yards on the ground against the Chiefs in garbage time today. This thread sucks.

shut up

gregbroncs
12-06-2009, 04:24 PM
Hillis is okay. Bucky and Moreno are much better.

Dean
12-06-2009, 04:26 PM
I could have had fifty yards on the ground against the Chiefs in garbage time today. This thread sucks.

Are you an expert on this subject, too?

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:27 PM
Are you an expert on this subject, too?

Yeah, I would be.

nevcraw
12-06-2009, 04:33 PM
Hillis looked great and hungry. as did all of the running backs. He does need to get some short yardage plays as they go deap in the season, if for nothing else to keep the smaller backs fresh and beat up some DL..

nevcraw
12-06-2009, 04:34 PM
Yeah, I would be.

expert on dislike towards Hillis..

Tned
12-06-2009, 04:37 PM
I could have had fifty yards on the ground against the Chiefs in garbage time today. This thread sucks.

Well, your point about garbage time has 'some' merit, even though the defense knew with 100% certainty he was running.

However, come on, do you really think ANYONE on this board thinks you could have gotten 50 yards in that game or any NFL game? :confused:

claymore
12-06-2009, 04:38 PM
I dont see how larsen is better than Hillis. Unless Hillis got a swole head and doesnt know the playbook.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:39 PM
expert on dislike towards Hillis..

Yeah, I'd rather have Knowshon Moreno running the football. Thank you!

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:41 PM
Well, your point about garbage time has 'some' merit, even though the defense knew with 100% certainty he was running.

Not like their defense cared. I'd like to see Hillis do some work againt legit opponents when it matters before he deserves praise.


However, come on, do you really think ANYONE on this board thinks you could have gotten 50 yards in that game or any NFL game? :confused:

Yeah, I do.

briannabelote
12-06-2009, 04:42 PM
[I could have had fifty yards on the ground against the Chiefs in garbage time today. This thread sucks.]

I am sure you could go try out for the team next summer. Then after the freight train named Hillis runs you over you could come back and repost that.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:42 PM
I dont see how larsen is better than Hillis. Unless Hillis got a swole head and doesnt know the playbook.

The fact that Larsen is playing FB over Hillis, and that Hillis only sees the field running the ball after we are up 69 points should tell anybody with a brain in their head that he is not thought of well here or got on somebody's shit list.

Slick
12-06-2009, 04:44 PM
Yeah, I'd rather have Knowshon Moreno running the football. Thank you!

I would too. I just wish he'd stop slithering and run with a little more reckless abandon. Stop shuffling around the LOS and run like you stole something.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:45 PM
I am sure you could go try out for the team next summer. Then after the freight train named Hillis runs you over you could come back and repost that.

Sorry, this isn't the movie about the Philadelphia garbage man who became a kicker for the Eagles. Plus, I wouldn't want to play for Denver anyways. I want to play with a good quarterback like Gus Frerotte.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:47 PM
I would too. I just wish he'd stop slithering and run with a little more reckless abandon. Stop shuffling around the LOS and run like you stole something.

Moreno runs with as much authority as he does trying to be sly behind the LOS. I'll take his effort today.

Slick
12-06-2009, 04:50 PM
Moreno runs with as much authority as he does trying to be sly behind the LOS. I'll take his effort today.

He played his ass off today.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:50 PM
If you are asking me Slick -- Moreno > Terrell Davis.

Northman
12-06-2009, 04:51 PM
The fact that Larsen is playing FB over Hillis, and that Hillis only sees the field running the ball after we are up 69 points should tell anybody with a brain in their head that he is not thought of well here or got on somebody's shit list.

Which is really too bad. I dont know what he did but damn.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:53 PM
Which is really too bad. I dont know what he did but damn.

Obviously, he pissed in McDaniels cheerios! :D

Tned
12-06-2009, 04:56 PM
Which is really too bad. I dont know what he did but damn.

From a pure blocking perspective, it doesn't bother me, since I think Larsen has blocked very well. What we lose with Hillis not in there is the threat of the FB dive carry and passes to the FB. There is no way that Larsen is the receiver that Hillis is, since based on other players, Hillis is one of the best receivers on the team.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 04:58 PM
Yeah? If that was the case, I'm sure he'd get more reps.

Northman
12-06-2009, 05:00 PM
Yeah? If that was the case, I'm sure he'd get more reps.

Actually, i do agree with Tned. Hillis last year was a major weapon for Jay. But for whatever reason, Josh is just not sold on him for whatever reason.

Bozo Jr.
12-06-2009, 05:08 PM
More like.... "How about dat tandem Bucky and Moreno"

a combined 33 carries for 199 yards 6.03 YPC and two TD's

when the game mattered, not in garbage time! :eek:

BroncoWave
12-06-2009, 05:09 PM
People are seriously griping for a bigger role after Buck and Moreno and 113 and 86 yards respectively? Anyone who thinks his talent level is even close to either of those 2 is kidding themselves.

topscribe
12-06-2009, 05:47 PM
I like Hillis, but to be fair, he was a fresh player coming in to beat on a physically and emotionally drained KC team.

But to continue to be fair, everybody in the world, who was watching the game, knew Hillis was going to run it . . .

-----

topscribe
12-06-2009, 05:49 PM
Yeah, I would be.

Yup. A legend in your own mind. :coffee:

-----

Dean
12-06-2009, 05:51 PM
Does this look to you like we are doing just fine on third down conversions (where Hillis would probably contribute)?

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/third-down-conversion-pct

Ranked #20 IMO is not exactly tearing it up.

topscribe
12-06-2009, 05:53 PM
What is with all this comparison crap? Is Moreno a better RB than Hillis? Yes! So?
Did the OP compare Hillis to Moreno? Get a grip, people. :tsk:

Oh, and so Larsen is a better FB than Hillis? Okay. He is. So? D.J. Williams is a
better LB than Hillis, too. What does that have to do with Hillis' running the ball?

I really cannot believe some of the arguments some people pick on this board . . . :tsk:

-----

Chris90210
12-06-2009, 05:57 PM
Hillis ftw screw the haters they can go suck tatum bell's cell phone selling balls

TXBRONC
12-06-2009, 06:03 PM
Yeah, I would be.

In an alternate universe maybe, but not in this one.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 06:05 PM
Hillis ftw

Yeah because without him we would have been blown out in that game.

horsepig
12-06-2009, 06:25 PM
Hillis is a frickin STUD.

He is a football player!

Dawkins, Davis, Dumerivil, Clady, Goodman....these guys are players. Hillis is too.

SmilinAssasSin27
12-06-2009, 06:32 PM
If you are asking me Slick -- Moreno > Terrell Davis.

Crack is whack.

SmilinAssasSin27
12-06-2009, 06:34 PM
Hillis ftw screw the haters they can go suck tatum bell's cell phone selling balls

huh?

spikerman
12-06-2009, 06:42 PM
Hillis seems to be just the type of back that would be useful in the red zone. Luckily the Broncos don't have any problems running the rock when they get near the goal line... oh, wait...

broncofaninfla
12-06-2009, 06:56 PM
Hillis got 47 yards on 7 carries when EVERYBODY in the stadium KNEW he was getting the ball. We have a good problem in that we have THREE solid running backs on our team. It's hard to spread the ball to all three BUT Hillis is our most powerful back. He is the perfect fourth quarter pound it in your face running back. All three of our running backs played good game and Hillis proved he needs a bigger role in this offense

HORSEPOWER 56
12-06-2009, 07:06 PM
Personally, I think Hillis should've gone in as soon as Moreno scored his second TD. I kept wondering why Moreno and Buck were still getting carries with a 21 point+ lead. I was sure that one of them was going to get hurt on some time-eating run up the middle for no other reason than to burn some clock. I already had a rant planned for McD ;).

As far as I'm concerned, Hillis should've played the 4th quarter along with Brandstater. If Orton or Moreno/Buck got hurt in garbage time I would've been highly pissed off.

bcbronc
12-06-2009, 07:07 PM
it was garbage time, but at least Hillis took advantage of his reps. the Chiefs didn't have a whole lot of incentive to get in the way of Hillis at that point, but at least Hillis finished his runs and kept his legs moving. I'm sure he made a positive impression on the coaching staff.

McD had to learn the capabilities of the entire roster this season. Hillis got some opportunities early in the season but didn't produce. McDaniel's moved on and tried to find someone that could. Today Hillis had another chance to show what he could do, and he made the best of it.

It won't surprise me to see Hillis get a couple touches next week, and if he gets the job done, eventually finding a role in McD's offense. But I don't expect he'll be taking touches from Moreno or Buckhalter, and nor should he.

LRtagger
12-06-2009, 07:21 PM
Hillis ran tough tonight and showed that he is a very powerful runner. But for people to say he deserves more PT based solely on that performance are fooling themselves.

From guys that know football that see him daily running in this offense in practice surely know more than any fan that watched him touch the ball less than 10 times against an inferior defense. Can Hillis be in the backfield on non-running plays? Can he pick up the blitz and peel off as a check down receiver? Can he turn the edge? Can he properly execute a play-action fake and find a spot in a zone or beat a LB to get open? All are questions that need to be answered before Hillis can be relied on as an option to rotate in during the game....otherwise anytime he is in the game, the D can focus on him up the middle because they know thats where he is going. A good D will shut him down, and exploit him with blitzes on passing downs.

IMO Hillis still needs time to learn and develop in this offense. Buckhalter cant have many more years in the league. When Buck is gone, I think we will have a real potent attack in Moreno and Hillis.

Aside from that, we just won our first game at Arrowhead in December since Elway was playing in the old blue D's...who cares if Hillis is contributing or not right now. He has plenty of time left in this league to contribute.

Always have to find something to complain about, I guess.

HORSEPOWER 56
12-06-2009, 07:34 PM
Personally, I'd like to see Hillis used more vs Indy this week. They have a smaller, faster attacking defense and Hillis is bigger than both their DEs and all of their LBs. If we use him to soften them up and take some of their speed away with grinding, we just might have a better shot at winning. Indy still isn't "great" against the run and running keeps Manning on the sidelines.

If we can dominate TOP and play smash-mouth on the ground (which is something we can do with Indy unlike Pitt or Baltimore) then I think we have a chance to win. Indy's defense is designed to play with a lead and force turnovers through pass pressure (which is Orton's kryptonite, too). If we come out and punch them in the face and wear down their smaller, faster D-line and LBs by making them tackle a power back, we have a better chance to be successful with the pass later on when they are looking run and catching their breath. We can't play our little screen game either, because the Colts will eat that up.

I'd roll all three RBs evenly and bust up the Colts defense. That's what I'd do.

BroncoWave
12-06-2009, 07:37 PM
Hillis got 47 yards on 7 carries when EVERYBODY in the stadium KNEW he was getting the ball. We have a good problem in that we have THREE solid running backs on our team. It's hard to spread the ball to all three BUT Hillis is our most powerful back. He is the perfect fourth quarter pound it in your face running back. All three of our running backs played good game and Hillis proved he needs a bigger role in this offense

Everyone in the stadium also knew that the Chiefs had completely quit. I think Larsen could have racked up some yards in that scenario.

weazel
12-06-2009, 07:56 PM
if you think the KC defense was giving even half the effort to stop Hillis as they were to stop Moreno and Bucky earlier, you are on crack.

Hillis did well, but the KC defense had already left the building and were planning dinner. They were all arm tackling because they didnt give a shit anymore.

Does that mean I dont want to see Hillis get some playing time? No. He should get some time, but he obviously pissed someone off and is sitting. That happens. It happened with Mike Bell and he seems to be doing just fine with the Saints this season.

Lonestar
12-06-2009, 07:57 PM
Personally, I'd like to see Hillis used more vs Indy this week. They have a smaller, faster attacking defense and Hillis is bigger than both their DEs and all of their LBs. If we use him to soften them up and take some of their speed away with grinding, we just might have a better shot at winning. Indy still isn't "great" against the run and running keeps Manning on the sidelines.

If we can dominate TOP and play smash-mouth on the ground (which is something we can do with Indy unlike Pitt or Baltimore) then I think we have a chance to win. Indy's defense is designed to play with a lead and force turnovers through pass pressure (which is Orton's kryptonite, too). If we come out and punch them in the face and wear down their smaller, faster D-line and LBs by making them tackle a power back, we have a better chance to be successful with the pass later on when they are looking run and catching their breath. We can't play our little screen game either, because the Colts will eat that up.

I'd roll all three RBs evenly and bust up the Colts defense. That's what I'd do.


this makes sense to most every one that is or has not invested so much in Moreno being their God..

Hillis has great hands is a great blocker but not as good as Larsen is for run blocking.. he will rarely go down on first contact but in most cases run over folks beating them down to the point they are shy of trying to tackle him..

a few folks have tied their reps to Moreno being the man, that they are blind to the facts that both can compliment each other..

I have Zero illusions that Hillis should be the starter but giving him the ball early in the game will indeed wear down the Defenses.. and open up the runs later in the game for whom ever is carrying it.

Personally I was not overly impressed with Moreno early in the game, while he got alot of yards Bucky was clearly the better back today..

GEM
12-06-2009, 08:04 PM
KC didn't even have their starting defense out, and even their starting D is awful. hillis is a FB not a RB, and he's not that great.

I could be a real ass here and say if he was black and did what he did, you'd love him.....:laugh:

I'm kidding so don't get all bent out of shape.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 08:06 PM
I could be a real ass here and say if he was black and did what he did, you'd love him.....:laugh:

I'm kidding so don't get all bent out of shape.

LOL Nah I love hillis, but not as a runningback, I like him as a fullback.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 08:07 PM
Hillis is playing the role he earns on the team. Garbage time running back. We spent a first rounder on Moreno and brought in Buckhalter. That should have signaled to everyone Hillis wasn't really in the fold for a big-time role in this offense, perhaps even part time.

GEM
12-06-2009, 08:08 PM
LOL Nah I love hillis, but not as a runningback, I like him as a fullback.

Good, you took that how I meant it. I like Hillis either way and if Moreno/Bucky isn't broke, don't fix it. He's good as a fresh set of legs to keep a defense on their toes.

honz
12-06-2009, 08:12 PM
Well, Hillis is better than Lamont Jordan.

Ravage!!!
12-06-2009, 08:16 PM
Well, your point about garbage time has 'some' merit, even though the defense knew with 100% certainty he was running.

However, come on, do you really think ANYONE on this board thinks you could have gotten 50 yards in that game or any NFL game? :confused:

I've seen pictures... he wouldn't get 50 yrds in a HS game.. MAYBE a small Jr High school game, though.

Ravage!!!
12-06-2009, 08:17 PM
KC didn't even have their starting defense out, and even their starting D is awful. hillis is a FB not a RB, and he's not that great.

He sure looked pretty DAMNED good last year.. AS the starting RB.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 08:18 PM
Well, Hillis is better than Lamont Jordan.

LOL I laugh every time I see Jordan in my mind, he's like a pear shape, dude has me rolling on the floor when he runs. Idk how we passed on Darius Walker for Lamont Jordan. :lol:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 08:19 PM
He sure looked pretty DAMNED good last year.. AS the starting RB.

Passing game opened up the running lanes.

topscribe
12-06-2009, 08:21 PM
Hillis got 47 yards on 7 carries when EVERYBODY in the stadium KNEW he was getting the ball. We have a good problem in that we have THREE solid running backs on our team. It's hard to spread the ball to all three BUT Hillis is our most powerful back. He is the perfect fourth quarter pound it in your face running back. All three of our running backs played good game and Hillis proved he needs a bigger role in this offense


He sure looked pretty DAMNED good last year.. AS the starting RB.

QFT qft

-----

topscribe
12-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Hillis ran tough tonight and showed that he is a very powerful runner. But for people to say he deserves more PT based solely on that performance are fooling themselves.

From guys that know football that see him daily running in this offense in practice surely know more than any fan that watched him touch the ball less than 10 times against an inferior defense. Can Hillis be in the backfield on non-running plays? Can he pick up the blitz and peel off as a check down receiver? Can he turn the edge? Can he properly execute a play-action fake and find a spot in a zone or beat a LB to get open? All are questions that need to be answered before Hillis can be relied on as an option to rotate in during the game....otherwise anytime he is in the game, the D can focus on him up the middle because they know thats where he is going. A good D will shut him down, and exploit him with blitzes on passing downs.

IMO Hillis still needs time to learn and develop in this offense. Buckhalter cant have many more years in the league. When Buck is gone, I think we will have a real potent attack in Moreno and Hillis.

Aside from that, we just won our first game at Arrowhead in December since Elway was playing in the old blue D's...who cares if Hillis is contributing or not right now. He has plenty of time left in this league to contribute.

Always have to find something to complain about, I guess.

Why should these questions be asked this year?

Hillis showed he could do all that last year.

-----

spikerman
12-06-2009, 08:23 PM
I don't think Hillis should be starting over Moreno or Buckhalter, but I think he'd make a fine short yardage/goal line back. It's rare that the first guy brings him down or he trips up because of a shoe-string tackle. The Broncos short yardage game hasn't been great this year. Hopefully his performance today will force the coaches to give him a shot. If he's successful it only helps the Broncos, if not, he probably won't be around long.

Of course, what do I know, I'm an idiot that thinks Larsen should get some playing time at inside linebacker.

Ravage!!!
12-06-2009, 08:28 PM
Passing game opened up the running lanes.

yeah.... Ohhh kay. So whats your reasoning again when the entire stadium, players, and people watching THIS game knew Hillis was going to run it?? Ohh thats right. They were tired.

Guess there's always some excuse to be blind :beer:

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-06-2009, 08:34 PM
yeah.... Ohhh kay. So whats your reasoning again when the entire stadium, players, and people watching THIS game knew Hillis was going to run it?? Ohh thats right. They were tired.

Guess there's always some excuse to be blind :beer:
They didn't give a **** and knew he wasn't going to break any big runs, it's not like he's fast or explosive.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-06-2009, 08:39 PM
Hillis showed us what he could do under Shanahan, after half of America's running backs fell victim to injury on our team. What has he shown us this year. . . toots.

Denver Native (Carol)
12-06-2009, 08:42 PM
I don't think Hillis should be starting over Moreno or Buckhalter, but I think he'd make a fine short yardage/goal line back. It's rare that the first guy brings him down or he trips up because of a shoe-string tackle. The Broncos short yardage game hasn't been great this year. Hopefully his performance today will force the coaches to give him a shot. If he's successful it only helps the Broncos, if not, he probably won't be around long.

Of course, what do I know, I'm an idiot that thinks Larsen should get some playing time at inside linebacker.

I agree with you - I would love to see Hillis carry the rock some of the time, as a change of pace, when a few tough yards are needed. There is nothing wrong with mixing in 3 running backs.

wbmustang
12-06-2009, 08:56 PM
Well, your point about garbage time has 'some' merit, even though the defense knew with 100% certainty he was running.

However, come on, do you really think ANYONE on this board thinks you could have gotten 50 yards in that game or any UFL game? :confused:

FYP Yeah I think it shows he is still hungry and will factor in when we go deep into the playoffs. Fresh backs are always good to have.

wbmustang
12-06-2009, 08:58 PM
I agree with you - I would love to see Hillis carry the rock some of the time, as a change of pace, when a few tough yards are needed. There is nothing wrong with mixing in 3 running backs.

Especially when you are trying to kill time off the clock in certain game situations.

Day1BroncoFan
12-06-2009, 09:01 PM
FYP Yeah I think it shows he is still hungry and will factor in when we go deep into the playoffs. Fresh backs are always good to have.

I hope this happens

Lonestar
12-06-2009, 10:07 PM
Hillis is playing the role he earns on the team. Garbage time running back. We spent a first rounder on Moreno and brought in Buckhalter. That should have signaled to everyone Hillis wasn't really in the fold for a big-time role in this offense, perhaps even part time.

Yet after the mini camps this past spring there was a lot of LOVE from Josh about how great this Hillis kid was with a hint they may not have used the Moreno pick for RB had he known what Hillis did..

NOW I think he has a lot invested in Moreno just like you have you have been on his sack since before the draft in fact I'd bet you were singing his praises last year, I'm not gonna go back and look but IIRC you were he is the second coming of TD way back then already....

Dream we get it Moreno is going to be a good to great RB but sometimes it is good if you do not push the issues..

I do not think any one is pushing for Hillis to start in place of Moreno just that he should get some touches and allow Moreno to rest along with Bucky save them for later in the year.. afterall Moreno should just about be hitting the rookie wall about now..

might be a great time to rest him abit.. BEFORE garbage time..

Poet
12-06-2009, 10:28 PM
Buckhalter is not better than Hillis. On short yardage situations he's your best bet by far.

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 07:30 AM
Why should these questions be asked this year?

Hillis showed he could do all that last year.

-----

In a completely different system, maybe. But I guarantee the only thing anyone remembers of Hillis last year is running over people and catching passes in plays that were designed for him.

Unfortunately, even last year it took 6 other RBs getting injured before Mike Shanahan gave him a shot...and that was only because he was our only option.

Look, I like Hillis...but dude has to be doing something in practice or in film time to not be considered for more playing time. Maybe he just simply doesn't understand the intricacies of the offense. It's not like Shanahan or McDaniels didn't give the guy shots just because they don't like him.

Our running game over the past few games has improved dramatically and people are still complaining because a player they like isn't getting any touches. Who cares????? The team is playing great football right now and is primed for a playoff push. We just completely pushed around and dominated two teams in a row. One team, a solid NFC playoff contender and another team we haven't beat in December at their place in over 10 years.

It's Hillis' SECOND year in the league. He has PLENTY of time to make an impact.

claymore
12-07-2009, 07:34 AM
According to McDaniels Hillis isnt even the best FB on our team. I like the kid too, but the HC thinks he is a reserve player at best.

Andd there is no way to split carries between 3 backs. Unless you outscore your oponets by 33 points and there is only 2 minutes left.

Northman
12-07-2009, 07:48 AM
I cant believe we blew out the chiefs in their place and there are still people cryin about which back should be starting. Amazing.

Dean
12-07-2009, 07:52 AM
According to McDaniels Hillis isnt even the best FB on our team.

The thread is not about him being a fullback.


I like the kid too, but the HC thinks he is a reserve player at best.

A third down or short yardage back is a reserve. The arguement for most is not that he start.


Andd there is no way to split carries between 3 backs. Unless you outscore your oponets by 33 points and there is only 2 minutes left.

Sure there is. As stated, bring him in on short yardage situations, third downs, or both.

claymore
12-07-2009, 08:13 AM
The thread is not about him being a fullback.



A third down or short yardage back is a reserve. The arguement for most is not that he start.



Sure there is. As stated, bring him in on short yardage situations, third downs, or both.

The thread is about how Hillis did in the final 2 minutes of mop up duty.

No HC is going to give the ball to Hillis for 2 plays a game unless their is an injury.

Hillis is the 4th string RB. behind Jordan. and the 3rd string KR. McDaniels doesnt trust him enough for the short yardage stuff.

He is a reserve player. No more, no less.

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 09:02 AM
Well I do think he jumped Jordan on the depth chart...Jordan was a healthy inactive for the Chefs game. Hillis certainly did enough to jump Jordan, but not enough to take away playing time from Buck or Moreno.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-07-2009, 09:09 AM
Well I do think he jumped Jordan on the depth chart...Jordan was a healthy inactive for the Chefs game. Hillis certainly did enough to jump Jordan, but not enough to take away playing time from Buck or Moreno.

He's not healthy at all, he's injured and fat.

claymore
12-07-2009, 09:10 AM
Well I do think he jumped Jordan on the depth chart...Jordan was a healthy inactive for the Chefs game. Hillis certainly did enough to jump Jordan, but not enough to take away playing time from Buck or Moreno.

On the Depth chart (updated Dec 1st) It has him as the 4th back. Im not saying he didnt surpass Jordan, but maybe he was there because he filled 3 backup roles (HB, FB, KR) vs 1 or 2 that Jordan would have.

Medford Bronco
12-07-2009, 09:14 AM
Hillis should get the short yardage carries and get some passes thrown to him.

The other RBs were fine today as well. Lets not go overboard on some garbage time carries

Dreadnought
12-07-2009, 09:58 AM
According to McDaniels Hillis isnt even the best FB on our team. I like the kid too, but the HC thinks he is a reserve player at best.

Andd there is no way to split carries between 3 backs. Unless you outscore your oponets by 33 points and there is only 2 minutes left.

Since when did you of all people start trusting McD's judgement? :D


Seriously? Hillis is the perfect guy to dredge up some old school Pro Set plays that nobody has seen for 30 years or so, back when the FB got just as many carries as the HB. Not as a regular base offense, but he is such a unique asset we ought to be using him. The running FB has disappeared from the NFL, and we have a throwback on our hands.

Do obsolete formations work? They can - ask the Patriots about that circa 1925 single wing offense (AKA the Wildcat) that ate them up last year.

claymore
12-07-2009, 10:04 AM
Since when did you of all people start trusting McD's judgement? :D


Seriously? Hillis is the perfect guy to dredge up some old school Pro Set plays that nobody has seen for 30 years or so, back when the FB got just as many carries as the HB. Not as a regular base offense, but he is such a unique asset we ought to be using him. The running FB has disappeared from the NFL, and we have a throwback on our hands.

Do obsolete formations work? They can - ask the Patriots about that circa 1925 single wing offense (AKA the Wildcat) that ate them up last year.

LMAO!! JMCD makes me scratch my head on a regular basis. Most notably the 3 yard screens,,,,,

At this point though the only opinion on Hillis that matters is JMCD's.

Personally I dont really care, we got more than the normal use out of a 7th round pick.

We have a decent 3rd stringer on our team that fits multiple positions. I like how he is being used.

JDL
12-07-2009, 10:09 AM
Hillis is a damn fine RB in his own right. Coach doesn't like him? Fine, hopefully he carries through on his attempts to trade him next year. Just because a coach doesn't think a guy is worthy of being a contributor on the Broncos roster doesn't mean the people in charge are right. We kicked Mike Bell to the curb like he was nothing and New Orleans thanks us VERY much as he has been VERY productive for them spelling Thomas.

You have to have multiple backs in this league and it would be nice if we made more use of Hillis who is a very versatile Faulk-like back that could be a real weapon for us, hell so could Moreno if we knew how to properly set up a screen pass rather than using him only on WR screens... we don't make the best use of our assets as it stands. Honestly, I blame it on McCoy who I don't think was ever a good choice for OC. Very vanilla and lacking in creativity... McDaniels can't possibly be doing it all, so he needs to contribute far more to the mediocre game planning that has resulted in so few 1st quarter points this year.

claymore
12-07-2009, 10:15 AM
Hillis is a damn fine RB in his own right. Coach doesn't like him? Fine, hopefully he carries through on his attempts to trade him next year. Just because a coach doesn't think a guy is worthy of being a contributor on the Broncos roster doesn't mean the people in charge are right. We kicked Mike Bell to the curb like he was nothing and New Orleans thanks us VERY much as he has been VERY productive for them spelling Thomas.

You have to have multiple backs in this league and it would be nice if we made more use of Hillis who is a very versatile Faulk-like back that could be a real weapon for us, hell so could Moreno if we knew how to properly set up a screen pass rather than using him only on WR screens... we don't make the best use of our assets as it stands. Honestly, I blame it on McCoy who I don't think was ever a good choice for OC. Very vanilla and lacking in creativity... McDaniels can't possibly be doing it all, so he needs to contribute far more to the mediocre game planning that has resulted in so few 1st quarter points this year.
I couldnt agree more. I do see Hillis as an outstanding FB and not a HB or every down RB. But I just dont think their is a place for him under this offense. Which is surprising with all the 3 yard pass plays,.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:25 AM
Hillis is not an outstanding fullback. An outstanding fullback is an outstanding
blocker. That is the fullback's first responsibility: blocking.

Hillis has been outstanding as a running back. This year, he has averaged 4.7
YPC. Last year he averaged 5.0 YPC. He has also been an outstanding receiver
out of the backfield, last year averaging 12.8 yards per completion. In fact,
coaches have said he may have the best hands on the team.

Despite what you self-proclaimed experts have to say about him, Hillis' numbers
speak for themselves. All I know is that the Broncos have struggled in the red
zone while Hillis has watched from the sidelines.

Yesterday, they put Hillis in to run the ball down the opponents' throats, with
spectacular results. I hope the coaches took note and learned from this.

/thread :coffee:

-----

broncofaninfla
12-07-2009, 10:39 AM
I don't understand the hate for Hillis? We have three solid rb's isn't that a good problem to have? Hillis showed he deserves more playing time and I'm sure Bucks knees could use a break. Why not put the big guy in and let him pound the ball and demoralize some defenses?

claymore
12-07-2009, 10:39 AM
Hillis is not an outstanding fullback. An outstanding fullback is an outstanding
blocker. That is the fullback's first responsibility: blocking.

Hillis has been outstanding as a running back. This year, he has averaged 4.7
YPC. Last year he averaged 5.0 YPC. He has also been an outstanding receiver
out of the backfield, last year averaging 12.8 yards per completion. In fact,
coaches have said he may have the best hands on the team.

Despite what you self-proclaimed experts have to say about him, Hillis' numbers
speak for themselves. All I know is that the Broncos have struggled in the red
zone while Hillis has watched from the sidelines.

Yesterday, they put Hillis in to run the ball down the opponents' throats, with
spectacular results. I hope the coaches took note and learned from this.

/thread :coffee:

-----

Hillis better learn how to block if he wants to stay in this league then. HE WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER be a starting RB. NEVER!

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:42 AM
Hillis better learn how to block if he wants to stay in this league then. HE WILL NEVER, EVER, EVER be a starting RB. NEVER!

I didn't say Hillis can't block. I just said he's not an outstanding blocker--a fullback-type blocker.

He's good enough of a blocker to survive at the RB position and to back up the FB position . . .

-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:43 AM
I don't understand the hate for Hillis?

I think some people just have to have somebody to hate . . . :whoknows:

-----

claymore
12-07-2009, 10:44 AM
I don't understand the hate for Hillis?

I dont hate Hillis. I like the kid, I am just one of the guys that never thought he would be a starting RB in the league. If he makes it, it will be at FB.....

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Hillis is not an outstanding fullback. An outstanding fullback is an outstanding
blocker. That is the fullback's first responsibility: blocking.

Hillis has been outstanding as a running back. This year, he has averaged 4.7
YPC. Last year he averaged 5.0 YPC. He has also been an outstanding receiver
out of the backfield, last year averaging 12.8 yards per completion. In fact,
coaches have said he may have the best hands on the team.

Despite what you self-proclaimed experts have to say about him, Hillis' numbers
speak for themselves. All I know is that the Broncos have struggled in the red
zone while Hillis has watched from the sidelines.

Yesterday, they put Hillis in to run the ball down the opponents' throats, with
spectacular results. I hope the coaches took note and learned from this.

/thread :coffee:

-----

Top,

Come on. You are one of my favorite posters here, but you are taking this a bit too personally I think.

No one is saying Hillis sucks and no one is claiming to be experts. Me, personally, am trusting the judgement of Josh and Bobby (Turner) as to whether Hillis deserves to take playing time away from Buckhalter and Moreno.

They obviously have a better sense of what Hillis can do for us and whether he is ready to contribute on a regular basis to this offense. Maybe, behind closed doors, he is not yet ready.

All I know is, in college he wasn't a go-to runner, under Shanahan he wasn't a go-to runner (until everyone else was on IR), and this year he hasn't been a go-to runner....call me a self proclaimed expert all you want, but I trust the judgement of his coaches over the past 6 years and will accept the fact that they don't think he makes this offense better right now....BUT the fact that he is on the roster and is typically active on Sundays, tells me the coaches DO see something in him and he could be a nice player for us in the future.

Tatum Bell also had fantastic stats last year...so did Michael Pittman, Selvin Young, etc etc etc. None of those guys are in the NFL currently. The stats he has put up in limited playing time don't hold as much water to me as the fact that he has NEVER been a feature back. Is he underutilized this year? Maybe...but we are winning games and playing good football, so what difference does it make?

claymore
12-07-2009, 10:47 AM
I didn't say Hillis can't block. I just said he's not an outstanding blocker--a fullback-type blocker.

He's good enough of a blocker to survive at the RB position . . .

-----
He was drafted as a FB, and made it thru college as a FB and blocked for 2 running backs that were high draft picks...... Seems like a good blocking FB to me....

I think some people just have to have somebody to hate . . . :whoknows:
-----

The problem is that all you guys fell in love with hillis last year and cant admit that McDaniels doesnt share your opinion.

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 10:47 AM
I think some people just have to have somebody to hate . . . :whoknows:

-----

No, I think some people just like to accuse others of "hating" their favorite players to make themselves feel better about the fact that not all of us think he is more deserving of a bigger role.

Since when does not thinking a player deserves a much bigger role = hating said player? That's a load of crap to me.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Top,

Come on. You are one of my favorite posters here, but you are taking this a bit too personally I think.

No one is saying Hillis sucks and no one is claiming to be experts. Me, personally, am trusting the judgement of Josh and Bobby (Turner) as to whether Hillis deserves to take playing time away from Buckhalter and Moreno.

They obviously have a better sense of what Hillis can do for us and whether he is ready to contribute on a regular basis to this offense. Maybe, behind closed doors, he is not yet ready.

All I know is, in college he wasn't a go-to runner, under Shanahan he wasn't a go-to runner (until everyone else was on IR), and this year he hasn't been a go-to runner....call me a self proclaimed expert all you want, but I trust the judgement of his coaches over the past 6 years and will accept the fact that they don't think he makes this offense better right now....BUT the fact that he is on the roster and is typically active on Sundays, tells me the coaches DO see something in him and he could be a nice player for us in the future.

Tatum Bell also had fantastic stats last year...so did Michael Pittman, Selvin Young, etc etc etc. None of those guys are in the NFL currently. The stats he has put up in limited playing time don't hold as much water to me as the fact that he has NEVER been a feature back. Is he underutilized this year? Maybe...but we are winning games and playing good football, so what difference does it make?

Personally? For stating my opinion? Maybe I should just stop posting?

Why are you addressing me? 90 posts here, and how many are mine?

I just stated my opinion and posted some numbers. That's all.

WTF?

-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:52 AM
He was drafted as a FB, and made it thru college as a FB and blocked for 2 running backs that were high draft picks...... Seems like a good blocking FB to me....


The problem is that all you guys fell in love with hillis last year and cant admit that McDaniels doesnt share your opinion.

My opinion is 5.0 YPC and 12.8 yards per reception. That is my opinion.
McDaniels doesn't have to share that.

But when it comes to McDaniels sharing opinions, I have thought the same thing
about your campaign against Orton. McDaniels is still starting Orton, isn't he?

Try to be consistent, Clay . . . :coffee:

-----

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 10:54 AM
Hillis is a damn fine RB in his own right. Coach doesn't like him? Fine, hopefully he carries through on his attempts to trade him next year. Just because a coach doesn't think a guy is worthy of being a contributor on the Broncos roster doesn't mean the people in charge are right. We kicked Mike Bell to the curb like he was nothing and New Orleans thanks us VERY much as he has been VERY productive for them spelling Thomas.

You have to have multiple backs in this league and it would be nice if we made more use of Hillis who is a very versatile Faulk-like back that could be a real weapon for us, hell so could Moreno if we knew how to properly set up a screen pass rather than using him only on WR screens... we don't make the best use of our assets as it stands. Honestly, I blame it on McCoy who I don't think was ever a good choice for OC. Very vanilla and lacking in creativity... McDaniels can't possibly be doing it all, so he needs to contribute far more to the mediocre game planning that has resulted in so few 1st quarter points this year.


Sorry, but Mike Bell's decline as a Bronco came under Shanahan where he was asked to put on several pounds and play Fullback. He has nothing to do with the current coaching staff or Hillis.

Mike Bell is an anomaly anyways...out of the several RBs the Broncos have released in the past couple years, he is the ONLY one having success somewhere else.

It doesn't matter anyways...no one has kicked Hillis to the curb. He is still on the roster and active on most Sundays...the coaching staff just feels Buckhalter and Moreno provide more at the position in this offense. I'm not sure what all the griping is about.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:55 AM
No, I think some people just like to accuse others of "hating" their favorite players to make themselves feel better about the fact that not all of us think he is more deserving of a bigger role.

Since when does not thinking a player deserves a much bigger role = hating said player? That's a load of crap to me.

Much of what has been said in this thread is a load of crap.

Hillis has done a good job when in there. Period. Where's the damned argument?

It seems every time someone says a given player (any player) is doing a good job, there are those who have to take argument. :tsk:

-----

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 10:56 AM
My opinion is 5.0 YPC and 12.8 yards per reception. That is my opinion.
McDaniels doesn't have to share that.

You do realize he's never put up these averages over a FULL season? This league is littered with RB's who could put up those kind of numbers with the amount of touches Hillis gets.

Come back to me when he keeps up those numbers over an extended period of time. :coffee:

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 10:57 AM
Personally? For stating my opinion? Maybe I should just stop posting?

Why are you addressing me? 90 posts here, and how many are mine?

I just stated my opinion and posted some numbers. That's all.

WTF?

-----

What? I didn't say you should stop posting?????????

I addressed you because you called out everyone that is disagreeing with you as a self proclaimed expert.

Then you said "/thread" as if your word was the be-all, end-all.

I suppose because I think the coaching staff has a better grasp of Hillis that I am a know-it-all expert and am overlooking what the numbers he has put up in limited playing time?



whatever

topscribe
12-07-2009, 10:58 AM
You do realize he's never put up these averages over a FULL season? This league is littered with RB's who could put up those kind of numbers with the amount of touches Hillis gets.

Come back to me when he keeps up those numbers over an extended period of time. :coffee:

You just don't give up, do you? You just have to manufacture an argument out of a simple comment.

See what I mean? :coffee:

-----

broncofaninfla
12-07-2009, 10:59 AM
I think the griping is about a lot of fans feel Hillis can help us if he gets the reps and until the past Sunday he really hasn't been given the chance. Hillis can pound the ball, that is a key for December football. We are a good team with Buck and Moreno runningthe ball but we would be even better to add Hillis into the mix.

claymore
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
My opinion is 5.0 YPC and 12.8 yards per reception. That is my opinion.
McDaniels doesn't have to share that.

But when it comes to McDaniels sharing opinions, I have thought the same thing
about your campaign against Orton. McDaniels is still starting Orton, isn't he?

Try to be consistent, Clay . . . :coffee:

-----

Orton is a top 20 QB. Hillis isnt a top 20 RB. I dont understand the comparison. Maybe they both suck? Is that the comparison?

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 11:01 AM
Much of what has been said in this thread is a load of crap.

Hillis has done a good job when in there. Period. Where's the damned argument?

It seems every time someone says a given player (any player) is doing a good job, there are those who have to take argument. :tsk:

-----

You're right, since he gashed a Chiefs team that had quit and put in their backups, he obviously deserves a bigger role. How could any of us argue that? :lol:

Look, no one here "hates" Peyton Hillis. I really like him actually. I just don't think he deserves a much bigger role. If that makes my a "hater" so be it.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:02 AM
What? I didn't say you should stop posting?????????

I addressed you because you called out everyone that is disagreeing with you as a self proclaimed expert.

Then you said "/thread" as if your word was the be-all, end-all.

I suppose because I think the coaching staff has a better grasp of Hillis that I am a know-it-all expert and am overlooking what the numbers he has put up in limited playing time?



whatever

What, now are you getting personally offended?

Who is taking it personally now?

I didn't address you personally. All I did was to post my opinion. If you have a
problem with that, then that is your problem, not mine.

Damn, folks, what is the problem here? Shit.

-----

claymore
12-07-2009, 11:05 AM
If the 3 RB's ahead of Hillis on the depth chart, ankles start on fire and fall of a cliff into the ocean. I have faith Hillis can get it done as our 4th string RB.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:05 AM
You're right, since he gashed a Chiefs team that had quit and put in their backups, he obviously deserves a bigger role. How could any of us argue that? :lol:

Look, no one here "hates" Peyton Hillis. I really like him actually. I just don't think he deserves a much bigger role. If that makes my a "hater" so be it.

I'm not arguing roles. All I said is that Hillis has done a great job when in there,
and that I hope the coaches take note.

Please stop making my comments what they are not. Don't put words into my
mouth.

-----

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 11:06 AM
I think the griping is about a lot of fans feel Hillis can help us if he gets the reps and until the past Sunday he really hasn't been given the chance. Hillis can pound the ball, that is a key for December football. We are a good team with Buck and Moreno runningthe ball but we would be even better to add Hillis into the mix.

Like I said...I trust the coaching staff knows what makes us a better team.

I like Hillis a lot. I think he is a gem of a find in the 7th round...I even started a thread last year early in the season suggesting Hillis be moved to an h-back or TE position because he wasn't getting any playing time.

But I also like our coaching staff and I think they know what works best for this team to win games. They know and see a LOT more than any beat writer, sportscaster, die-hard fan, or casual fan would ever know. I trust they are making the right decision. If we were losing games because our backs were inept, then I would complain...but I see no reason to complain especially coming off a division game where our top 2 backs rushed for nearly 200 yards and 2 TDs.

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 11:07 AM
You just don't give up, do you? You just have to manufacture an argument out of a simple comment.

See what I mean? :coffee:

-----

No, you just like to pull this crap of coming in here acting like your opinion is the end-all be-all and then you get pissy and storm out whenever people disagree with you. It's been your MO as long as I've seen you post and you still act shocked when people call you out on it.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:07 AM
Orton is a top 20 QB. Hillis isnt a top 20 RB. I dont understand the comparison. Maybe they both suck? Is that the comparison?

Are you kidding? Really? You actually inferred that I was comparing them? Wow.

:noidea:

----

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 11:08 AM
I think some people just have to have somebody to hate . . . :whoknows:

-----


I'm not arguing roles. All I said is that Hillis has done a great job when in there,
and that I hope the coaches take note.

Please stop making my comments what they are not. Don't put words into my
mouth.

-----

:lol::lol::lol:

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:10 AM
No, you just like to pull this crap of coming in here acting like your opinion is the end-all be-all and then you get pissy and storm out whenever people disagree with you. It's been your MO as long as I've seen you post and you still act shocked when people call you out on it.

Oh, now I'M the topic here. That is YOUR M.O. That is all I've seen of you ever
since I first saw your user name, clear back into Mania. YOU are the one who
likes to make it personal. Please do me a favor and put me on ignore, will you?
That way, you won't have to put up with my getting "pissy."

-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:13 AM
If the 3 RB's ahead of Hillis on the depth chart, ankles start on fire and fall of a cliff into the ocean. I have faith Hillis can get it done as our 4th string RB.

Now, getting back to responding to grown-ups (notice I'm responding to you),
I have to agree with this, except that I really don't know what Jordan is doing
still on the roster. Hillis, IMO, is very good as the 3rd string RB, but he does not
belong behind Jordan.

-----

claymore
12-07-2009, 11:14 AM
Are you kidding? Really? You actually inferred that I was comparing them? Wow.

:noidea:

----

You brought up Orton for no reason whatsoever. I guess I dont understand what that has to do with anything?


Orton sucks, and should be a backup, like hillis, thats how I took it. But Unlike hillis, we dont have 3 QB's on the roster that are better than Orton.

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 11:14 AM
What, now are you getting personally offended?

Who is taking it personally now?

I didn't address you personally. All I did was to post my opinion. If you have a
problem with that, then that is your problem, not mine.

Damn, folks, what is the problem here? Shit.

-----

You posted your opinion by calling everyone else out and saying everything in this thread is "a total load of crap" because it is in disagreement with you.

You basically said anyone who was disagreeing with you was wrong. We are the self proclaimed experts, yet you aren't because you can look at a stat sheet and come to a conclusion that the coaches cant. You hope our coaching staff can learn from what YOU saw in junk time against the Chiefs...yet everyone else is a self-proclaimed expert.

Give me a break.

Hillis is behind Buckhalter and Moreno because the coaches said he is. Get over it.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:16 AM
You posted your opinion by calling everyone else out and saying everything in this thread is "a total load of crap" because it is in disagreement with you.

You basically said anyone who was disagreeing with you was wrong. We are the self proclaimed experts, yet you aren't because you can look at a stat sheet and come to a conclusion that the coaches cant. You hope our coaching staff can learn from what YOU saw in junk time against the Chiefs...yet everyone else is a self-proclaimed expert.

Give me a break.

Hillis is behind Buckhalter and Moreno because the coaches said he is. Get over it.

I did not call out everyone else, and I did not say everything in this thread is a load of crap. And I did not say everyone else is a self-proclaimed expert.

Either post honestly, or don't post . .


And I agree Hillis is behind Moreno and Buckhalter. Do not fabricate arguments from my comments.

-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:20 AM
You brought up Orton for no reason whatsoever. I guess I dont understand what that has to do with anything?


Orton sucks, and should be a backup, like hillis, thats how I took it. But Unlike hillis, we dont have 3 QB's on the roster that are better than Orton.

You said McDaniels doesn't share my opinion (what you think my opinion is) about Hillis.

I pointed out that you long argued against Orton, and that McDaniels obviously didn't share your opinion about that. And obviously still doesn't.

My point was consistency. You don't seem consistent there.

Does that clear it up?

-----

LRtagger
12-07-2009, 11:25 AM
I did not call out everyone else, and I did not say everything in this thread is a load of crap. And I did not say everyone else is a self-proclaimed expert.

Either post honestly, or don't post . .


And I agree Hillis is behind Moreno and Buckhalter. Do not fabricate arguments from my comments.

-----

Wow ok Top.

I'll just stop posting.

claymore
12-07-2009, 11:27 AM
You said McDaniels doesn't share my opinion (what you think my opinion is) about Hillis.

I pointed out that you long argued against Orton, and that McDaniels obviously didn't share your opinion about that.

My point was consistency. You didn't seem consistent there.

Does that clear it up?

-----

All we know about Orton is that there is no QB on the roster better than him. An opinion McDaniels seems to share. But not a great position to be in.

Hillis is a backup to the backup, to the backup. Exactly where I said he should be all along.

Im pretty sure ive said that all along. In week six I said Orton could be our long term starter, but I was drunk and got caught up in the moment.

Mike
12-07-2009, 11:30 AM
Holy crap, is this really worth getting personal over? Knock it off.

drewloc
12-07-2009, 11:32 AM
Even if he was moved up to third on the depth chart above Jordan, his game time won't be that much more. Hell Jordan only has 20 carries this year. I do believe that Hillis is better than Jordan as most here will agree. I am going to go with what is decided. I really think that the big issue is here that Hillis really has no great role in this offense. It's obvious that the coaching staff likes Moreno in short yardage for better or worse. Hillis' problem as I see it is that in the roles he is good at there is someone better ahead of him. If there was an injury I trust Hillis in certain roles, and having that depth is a good thing. We have been ok with injuries so far, and until there is a need for him to carry it more I just don't think he will.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:33 AM
All we know about Orton is that there is no QB on the roster better than him. An opinion McDaniels seems to share. But not a great position to be in.

Hillis is a backup to the backup, to the backup. Exactly where I said he should be all along.

Im pretty sure ive said that all along. In week six I said Orton could be our long term starter, but I was drunk and got caught up in the moment.

Well, I've been sober all this time . . . and consistent.



And, Mike, if you want to get in between Clay and me, you have your work cut out for you. :D



-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:37 AM
Even if he was moved up to third on the depth chart above Jordan, his game time won't be that much more. Hell Jordan only has 20 carries this year. I do believe that Hillis is better than Jordan as most here will agree. I am going to go with what is decided. I really think that the big issue is here that Hillis really has no great role in this offense. It's obvious that the coaching staff likes Moreno in short yardage for better or worse. Hillis' problem as I see it is that in the roles he is good at there is someone better ahead of him. If there was an injury I trust Hillis in certain roles, and having that depth is a good thing. We have been ok with injuries so far, and until there is a need for him to carry it more I just don't think he will.

The point is, whom do they take out to put Hillis in? It isn't that Hillis lacks
talent--he doesn't. But this team has so many offensive weapons that Hillis is
caught up in the numbers.

Hillis will never crack the Moreno/Buckhalter rotation (except that I believe
the coaches ought to take a closer look at Hillis in the red zone, maybe?),
unless injury dictates it. But that isn't my point. My point is that Hillis has
done a splendid job when in there. But that was never to take away from
what Moreno and Buck have done. Not at all . . .

-----

drewloc
12-07-2009, 11:41 AM
The point is, whom do they take out to put Hillis in? It isn't that Hillis lacks
talent--he doesn't. But this team has so many offensive weapons that Hillis is
caught up in the numbers.

Hillis will never crack the Moreno/Buckhalter rotation (except that I believe
the coaches ought to take a closer look at Hillis in the red zone, maybe?),
unless injury dictates it. But that isn't my point. My point is that Hillis has
done a splendid job when in there. But that was never to take away from
what Moreno and Buck have done. Not at all . . .

-----

I don't disagree at all, like you stated it really has just become a numbers game. I don't think it would hurt to give him a shot in the red zone, as that's been an area that we need improvement on. Although it's hard to say if he alone will help, but it couldn't hurt I don't think. :beer:

claymore
12-07-2009, 11:44 AM
Do you guys really want a cold 3rd string guy to try and punch it in on redzone attempts? Id rather trust the back that got us there.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 11:46 AM
Do you guys really want a cold 3rd string guy to try and punch it in on redzone attempts? Id rather trust the back that got us there.

If the guy who got us there can't punch it in, then try something else. :whoknows:

However, Moreno did get it done yesterday. So . . .

-----

Mike
12-07-2009, 11:50 AM
You know things are going pretty good for Denver when all we have to argue over is the #3/#4 RB.

Hopefully, we will have like arguments next Monday. :cheers:

Tned
12-07-2009, 11:52 AM
Wow, I'll say this for the guy, he spurs up strong opinions on both sides of the aisle.

Ok, a couple things that should be cleared up.

First. Several are saying, "50 yards in garbage time doesn't mean he should start" or, "you are crazy if you think he should be starting over Moreno or Buck".

I might have missed it, but I haven't see anyone in this thread calling for him to start, but instead were saying that he should be an option on short yardage/goal line plays.

Second, a number of you in this thread and others have said, "he was given his shot and didn't produce."

The fact is that he got one carry in the first game (2 yards up the middle) and had one reception for 6 yards.

Hethen got one goal line carry in the second game and scored a TD from 2 yards out.

In the third game, he was brought in on a first and goal situation with the jumbo package (Hochstein at FB) and had a false start. Then taken back out of the game. After Oakland had an offside, putting the Broncos back on the one, he ran twice for no gain, then they pulled him for Jordan, who also got no gain on the 4th down run.

So, it isn't like he had a lot of opportunities that he didn't take advantage, as some claim. The fact is that early in the season, no Broncos back was having success in short yardage. The next couple weeks when they ran that jumbo package, they also had very little success, both on goal line and other short yardage plays.

Now, the other factor, which I personally think put him in the dog house more were penalties and mental mistakes. In addition to the false start in game two, in game four, he had two penalties on special teams. One holding and one block in the back. Also, I can't remember which game it was, but in one game they brought him in as a receiver, and he lined up on the wrong side. I think he was supposed to line up on the left, and motion to the right, but just went ahead and lined up on the right. Orton first tried to get him in the right spot, but then had to call time out, because he ran out of time.

Whatever the reason, I don't think McD is not playing him because he doesn't like him or anything like that. I think he believes the guys he is using give him the best chance to win. Now, that doesn't mean he is right. Plenty of coaches don't use a player until they have to, and then realize "wow, I need to use this guy more".

We even saw that a little this year. Early in the season, Marshall was being routinely taken out as "part of the WR rotation", including that one 2nd quarter that drew a lot of questions. However, he quickly figured out that every aspect of the offense (running game, other WR production) dropped off significantly when Marshall wasn't on the field, and quickly ramped up his playing time.

First it was, "we have a lot of WR that deserve to be out there and can do the job, they can't all be in all the time" and it quickly changed to Marshall in on almost every play, except when he is getting a breather or it's a jumbo package.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 11:57 AM
This is why I personally believe we didn't need to use a first round pick on a RB.

claymore
12-07-2009, 12:01 PM
With all the short screens we throw, Hillis will wont sniff the field unless of injury or 33 point leads.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 12:04 PM
I don't know why Hillis, of himself, should foster such strong opinions.

He does a good job when in there. The numbers say so.

So do Moreno and Buck, and he is caught behind them. That is a no-brainer.

What is there to it besides that? :whoknows:

-----

jhildebrand
12-07-2009, 12:09 PM
I don't know why Hillis, of himself, should foster such strong opinions.

He does a good job when in there. The numbers say so.

So do Moreno and Buck, and he is caught behind them. That is a no-brainer.

What is there to it besides that? :whoknows:

-----

Well Top, I think the reasons would be it seems Hillis has been held to a different standard than the other backs and players on the team, at one point he was getting carries after Lamont Jordan!!!, and finally I believe and agree with those that feel Moreno might not have been the wisest choice at #12 if you are only going to run the guy 14 times per game average.

If you are only going to run 20 times per game, you could have had Buckhalter and Hillis as your backs and used the #12 for more D help.

I do think the argument is beginning to change now that we see Moreno getting more carries and seeing him improve.

Grover
12-07-2009, 12:09 PM
Topscribe - To say Hillis has done a "splendid job when in there" is an exaggeration in my opinion. (I'm not trying to call you out by the way, I'm just expressing my opinion.)

Granted, Hillis had a very productive and hard fought 5 minutes in the game yesterday. Before that you saw some confusion, a dropped pass or two, a fumble, blocking in the back penalties. To put it bluntly, he's been kind of a mixed bag, and a little disappointing.

I like the guy because he shows effort, but as other posters have said, I don't see him getting much more playing time on offense unless something bad happens to those ahead of him. If San Diego all of a sudden drops three straight, then I see Hillis being our feature back when we play the Chiefs again the last game of the season. But short of that, I don't see much playing time in his future.

And speaking of playing time and getting more involved in the offense. I'm much more concerned about getting two other players more involved in the offense -- Tony Sheffler is one, and that other guy who used to play Slot, I think he's Number 14 but I can't recall his name because I haven't seen him play much since he won game #1.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 12:12 PM
Anyone touting Peyton Hillis as a quality and effective player on this team, this year, in this offense would be participating in gross exaggeration.

Ravage!!!
12-07-2009, 12:18 PM
With all the short screens we throw, Hillis will wont sniff the field unless of injury or 33 point leads.

Hillis was great last year as they guy getting the screen passes. He has great hands and is a beast for DBs to take down. :beer:

topscribe
12-07-2009, 12:23 PM
Topscribe - To say Hillis has done a "splendid job when in there" is an exaggeration in my opinion. (I'm not trying to call you out by the way, I'm just expressing my opinion.)

Granted, Hillis had a very productive and hard fought 5 minutes in the game yesterday. Before that you saw some confusion, a dropped pass or two, a fumble, blocking in the back penalties. To put it bluntly, he's been kind of a mixed bag, and a little disappointing.

I like the guy because he shows effort, but as other posters have said, I don't see him getting much more playing time on offense unless something bad happens to those ahead of him. If San Diego all of a sudden drops three straight, then I see Hillis being our feature back when we play the Chiefs again the last game of the season. But short of that, I don't see much playing time in his future.

And speaking of playing time and getting more involved in the offense. I'm much more concerned about getting two other players more involved in the offense -- Tony Sheffler is one, and that other guy who used to play Slot, I think he's Number 14 but I can't recall his name because I haven't seen him play much since he won game #1.

Moreno has fumbled. Marshall has dropped passes. Orton has thrown INTs.
Clady has been called for holding. All have done splendid jobs, overall, IMO.

I'm not talking about playing time, and I'm not talking about considering Hillis
over the likes of Scheffler or Stokley. But in fact, that is exactly the point I
made: too many weapons.

But when I say "splendid job," I'm talking about 5.0 YPC and 12.8 yards per
reception. I'm talking about his pancaking LBs and safeties when he has the
ball. That, to me, is "splendid."

Nothing more.

I haven't made any other argument, so that is my quandary: Who should take
issue with that, and why? :confused:

I don't become upset over someone disagreeing with what I actually said. My
problem is when they put words into my mouth and then take issue with that.

-----

claymore
12-07-2009, 12:24 PM
Hillis was great last year as they guy getting the screen passes. He has great hands and is a beast for DBs to take down. :beer:

I agree. I want to see him on the field as well, but Not in place of Buck or Moreno.

Hopefully he becomes a better blocker and replaces Larsen. Because that is the only way we will ever see him again.

weazel
12-07-2009, 12:28 PM
yeah.... Ohhh kay. So whats your reasoning again when the entire stadium, players, and people watching THIS game knew Hillis was going to run it?? Ohh thats right. They were tired.

Guess there's always some excuse to be blind :beer:

again... what did the runs amount to? nothing. KC was done, they couldnt care less how many yards Hillis was getting. They (the backup defense) were just letting the time run out on the clock and getting ready to go home. Denver needed to kill 2 minutes and KC let them, game over.

I cannot believe some of you are looking at this and thinking Hillis is a stud. Sammy Winder would have broke those runs off... now! LOL

topscribe
12-07-2009, 12:30 PM
I agree. I want to see him on the field as well, but Not in place of Buck or Moreno.

Hopefully he becomes a better blocker and replaces Larsen. Because that is the only way we will ever see him again.

Except that Larsen is turning out to be a damned good blocker.

So there again, he has a numbers problem.

Unless Hillis' blocking does indeed improve and Larsen turns out to be a damned good linebacker . . .

-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 12:32 PM
again... what did the runs amount to? nothing. KC was done, they couldnt care less how many yards Hillis was getting. They (the backup defense) were just letting the time run out on the clock and getting ready to go home. Denver needed to kill 2 minutes and KC let them, game over.

I cannot believe some of you are looking at this and thinking Hillis is a stud. Sammy Winder would have broke those runs off... now! LOL

Some of us might be looking at last year, too, and thinking Hillis is a stud.

Some of us might be looking at some of his college feats and thinking he is a stud.

Some of us might have a pretty short memory and be looking at only yesterday.



BTW, Sammy Winder was a pretty decent RB . . .



-----

T.K.O.
12-07-2009, 12:33 PM
it was agreat game and i'm glad we got to see hillis in there for a minute,but am i the only one who is wondering why moreno,marshall and orton were in there at all late in the game?
i mean i know all about playing and winning as a team but man if marshall or orton had been hurt when we had a 3 td + lead....mcD would have looked like a....mc d (insert one of several doofamisms)
we already know what happens when orton is out and i dont want to see us miss the playoffs so our top guys can "stick together" til the end of a game that is over.
all's well that ends well....BUT !
besides we had the perfect oportunity to see what brandstater has in a live situation before we might actually need him (knock on wood that we wont):salute:

weazel
12-07-2009, 12:37 PM
Some of us might be looking at last year, too, and thinking Hillis is a stud.

Some of us might be looking at some of his college feats and thinking he is a stud.

Some of us might have a pretty short memory and be looking at only yesterday.



BTW, Sammy Winder was a pretty decent RB . . .



-----

now??? well bring him in and get rid of Jordan!

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 12:56 PM
Hey Coach you sure caused a shity storm on a simple question.

Seems that many still have unresolved issues with all the changes this year.

And this as many forums have become even more polarized than ever IF we have to argue over if an outstanding RB situation is not something GREAT to have.

Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Tned
12-07-2009, 12:59 PM
Anyone touting Peyton Hillis as a quality and effective player on this team, this year, in this offense would be participating in gross exaggeration.

By "gross exaggeration", you mean posting things like how you could have gotten 50 yards against the Chiefs on that last drive? :laugh:

Tned
12-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Hey Coach you sure caused a shity storm on a simple question.

Seems that many still have unresolved issues with all the changes this year.

And this as many forums have become even more polarized than ever IF we have to argue over if an outstanding RB situation is not something GREAT to have.


Jr, not everything goes back to the offseason changes. Last year, we had many people questioning why Hillis wasn't getting more touches, and obviously that was before the offseason changes.

Shit, even one of the biggest McDaniels bashers on the message board is saying "if the coach doesn't think he is good enough to play, clearly he isn't" or something to that effect.

This, like the vast majority of opinions on the board, have nothing to do with the offseason changes, it has to do with how we feel about the team and players now, not something that happened in the past.

Poet
12-07-2009, 01:05 PM
I don't think anyone is saying this is the next Jim Brown, but he's a big powerful back who can play FB and RB and has good hands. If he got cut I would clamor for Cincinnati to sign him.

I beg to differ about the Buckhalter being better than him. Buck was a career backup with injury problems. He's a stop-gap for Moreno that's had a nice year. Hillis could potentially be a workhorse in the NFL. Buckhalter... has had nice spurts in his career...before he wound up on the IR.

claymore
12-07-2009, 01:07 PM
Jr, not everything goes back to the offseason changes. Last year, we had many people questioning why Hillis wasn't getting more touches, and obviously that was before the offseason changes.

Shit, even one of the biggest McDaniels bashers on the message board is saying "if the coach doesn't think he is good enough to play, clearly he isn't" or something to that effect.

This, like the vast majority of opinions on the board, have nothing to do with the offseason changes, it has to do with how we feel about the team and players now, not something that happened in the past.

I would like to say I said Hillis wouldnt start before McDaniels was chosen as the HC. :D

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:13 PM
I don't think anyone is saying this is the next Jim Brown, but he's a big powerful back who can play FB and RB and has good hands. If he got cut I would clamor for Cincinnati to sign him.

I beg to differ about the Buckhalter being better than him. Buck was a career backup with injury problems. He's a stop-gap for Moreno that's had a nice year. Hillis could potentially be a workhorse in the NFL. Buckhalter... has had nice spurts in his career...before he wound up on the IR.

:eek: Really? Have you watched Buckhalter play this year? He's 3rd in the NFL in yards per carry. No way Hillis is close to as good as Buck has been this year.

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 01:19 PM
We have a unique issuse having TO many offensive weapons. That can't all get enough touches.

WOW what a problem to have.

I personally think the plan for Hillis is to become the next Kevin Faulk a REAL bad problem to have. Then moreno has started to play better and Bucky well IMO is the better of the two.

Problems like this we need to have opposed to KC or many other teams not having enough talent to give the ball to.

Some people would complian being beat with a golden whip.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Poet
12-07-2009, 01:21 PM
:eek: Really? Have you watched Buckhalter play this year? He's 3rd in the NFL in yards per carry. No way Hillis is close to as good as Buck has been this year.

BTB, I chalk it up to an anomaly; http://www.nfl.com/players/correllbuckhalter/profile?id=BUC578164

I'll put it to you like this, if Cincinnati was magically given a choice to take one of Denvers backs...I'd take Moreno:D , but I would then take Hillis over Buckhalter. I think Hillis could do what Buck's done this year.

Tned
12-07-2009, 01:26 PM
We have a unique issuse having TO many offensive weapons. That can't all get enough touches.

WOW what a problem to have.

I personally think the plan for Hillis is to become the next Kevin Faulk a REAL bad problem to have. Then moreno has started to play better and Bucky well IMO is the better of the two.

Problems like this we need to have opposed to KC or many other teams not having enough talent to give the ball to.

Some people would complian being beat with a golden whip.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Agreed, too many weapons is a nice problem to have. Other than possibly helping in short yardage situations, it is VERY hard to be unhappy with what Moreno and Buckhalter have done. I am so surprised and happy by Buck's performance this year. As a career backup, who I only watched a few times, I can't believe the burst he shows getting the quick 5-8 yards.

claymore
12-07-2009, 01:28 PM
Agreed, too many weapons is a nice problem to have. Other than possibly helping in short yardage situations, it is VERY hard to be unhappy with what Moreno and Buckhalter have done. I am so surprised and happy by Buck's performance this year. As a career backup, who I only watched a few times, I can't believe the burst he shows getting the quick 5-8 yards.

Michael Turner was a backup too. :D

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:28 PM
BTB, I chalk it up to an anomaly; http://www.nfl.com/players/correllbuckhalter/profile?id=BUC578164

I'll put it to you like this, if Cincinnati was magically given a choice to take one of Denvers backs...I'd take Moreno:D , but I would then take Hillis over Buckhalter. I think Hillis could do what Buck's done this year.

I would HAPPILY give you Hillis over Buckhalter if I had to give you one of the two, and I wouldn't think twice about it. There is no way Hillis puts up Buckhalter's stats this year if given his carries. And that's not a knock against Hillis, that's just mentioning how well Buck has played this year.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 01:29 PM
BTB, I chalk it up to an anomaly; http://www.nfl.com/players/correllbuckhalter/profile?id=BUC578164

I'll put it to you like this, if Cincinnati was magically given a choice to take one of Denvers backs...I'd take Moreno:D , but I would then take Hillis over Buckhalter. I think Hillis could do what Buck's done this year.

You have Benson, and now you've picked up LJ.

Anyone ever tell you you're greedy? :tsk:

-----

nevcraw
12-07-2009, 01:31 PM
it was agreat game and i'm glad we got to see hillis in there for a minute,but am i the only one who is wondering why moreno,marshall and orton were in there at all late in the game?
i mean i know all about playing and winning as a team but man if marshall or orton had been hurt when we had a 3 td + lead....mcD would have looked like a....mc d (insert one of several doofamisms)
we already know what happens when orton is out and i dont want to see us miss the playoffs so our top guys can "stick together" til the end of a game that is over.
all's well that ends well....BUT !
besides we had the perfect oportunity to see what brandstater has in a live situation before we might actually need him (knock on wood that we wont):salute:

I couldn't believe Champ was in on KO coverage after they were up by 20+ points..
Brandstater was diactivated so the only back-up was Chrissy.

slim
12-07-2009, 01:31 PM
You have Benson, and now you've picked up LJ.

Anyone ever tell you you're greedy? :tsk:

-----

Just every buffet owner in Cinci :listen:

topscribe
12-07-2009, 01:33 PM
I couldn't believe Champ was in on KO coverage after they were up by 20+ points..
Brandstater was diactivated so the only back-up was Chrissy.

The inactive QB can be activated at any time, even during a game.

The only problem with that is, once they do that, they can't again play either QB ahead of him in that game.

. . . As I understand it, anyway . . .

-----

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:34 PM
Brandstater was diactivated so the only back-up was Chrissy.

No, he could have played. Although the #3 QB is designated as "inactive" he can still enter the game, especially in the 4th quarter. Philly did that with Kolb at the end of the Falcons game this week.

Dreadnought
12-07-2009, 01:34 PM
Just every buffet owner in Cinci :listen:

Yep. Lifetime ban from the owner of the "Angry Dragon" all you can eat Chinese place.

As far as Hillis or Buck? Easy choice - Hillis. Not a knock on Buck, who has been our best RB this year, but he is old and injury prone. He doesn't have much tread left.

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:34 PM
The inactive QB can be activated at any time, even during a game.

The only problem with that is, once they do that, they can't again play either QB ahead of him in that game.

. . . As I understand it, anyway . . .

-----

I think the rule is they can bring the starter back in the 4th quarter, but not before then.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 01:35 PM
Yep. Lifetime ban from the owner of the "Angry Dragon" all you can eat Chinese place.

As far as Hillis or Buck? Easy choice - Hillis. Not a knock on Buck, who has been our best RB this year, but he is old and injury prone. He doesn't have much tread left.

So, in your opinion, Hillis will be with the Broncos next year?

-----

Dreadnought
12-07-2009, 01:36 PM
So, in your opinion, Hillis will be with the Broncos next year?

-----

I'd like to think so but I'm not optimistic. :mad:

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:37 PM
I'd like to think so but I'm not optimistic. :mad:

I mean, it's not like losing your third string RB is the end of the world. It's probably the easiest position to replace.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 01:40 PM
I mean, it's not like losing your third string RB is the end of the world. It's probably the easiest position to replace.

Except I still think Hillis has Bettis-type abilities (but a better receiver).



*Uh-oh . . I'm in for it now* :couch:



-----

slim
12-07-2009, 01:40 PM
Maybe now McD will give him the ball in short yardage situations.

:crossesfingers:

Dreadnought
12-07-2009, 01:40 PM
I mean, it's not like losing your third string RB is the end of the world. It's probably the easiest position to replace.

I'd rather trade Moreno - we could get plenty more for him and theres little drop off in ability or production :D

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Except I still think Hillis has Bettis-type abilities (but a better receiver).



*Uh-oh . . I'm in for it now* :couch:



-----

Maybe, but I still think RB is the easiest position to replace. And given all of the big contracts we could hand out this offseason (Dumervil, Marshall, Scheffler, Orton) it wouldn't be the end of the world if Hillis slipped through the cracks.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 01:44 PM
By "gross exaggeration", you mean posting things like how you could have gotten 50 yards against the Chiefs on that last drive? :laugh:

Given ample enough opportunities, I feel a lot of people in decent shape could have done that on this board. Especially those who have played the game. Throw Claymore back there, run a couple of dives, clear out the A or B gap for the running back to slam through and that is a couple of yards. That was my bread and butter back in my football days. I'd even trust Claymore on off-tackle handerdooskies where he has to hit up the C.

Oh, but wait. My point was more or less, that in garbage time -- a lot of players in the NFL could have ran for 50 yards against a demoralized, second-rate group of Kansas City Chiefs. Just ask Quentin Griffin, he did it. Where is he again?

claymore
12-07-2009, 01:46 PM
Given ample enough opportunities, I feel a lot of people in decent shape could have done that on this board. Especially those who have played the game. Throw Claymore back there, run a couple of dives, clear out the A or B gap for the running back to slam through and that is a couple of yards. That was my bread and butter back in my football days. I'd even trust Claymore on off-tackle handerdooskies where he has to hit up the C.

Oh, but wait. My point was more or less, that in garbage time -- a lot of players in the NFL could have ran for 50 yards against a demoralized, second-rate group of Kansas City Chiefs. Just ask Quentin Griffin, he did it. Where is he again?

I could have caught a couple 3 yard screens andturned them into 4 yards real quick too. :werd:

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 01:48 PM
Maybe, but I still think RB is the easiest position to replace. And given all of the big contracts we could hand out this offseason (Dumervil, Marshall, Scheffler, Orton) it wouldn't be the end of the world if Hillis slipped through the cracks.

I'm not sure if Hillis gets cut, because frankly it is nice to have depth at the running back position -- but people shouldn't be surprised if he gets the ax this off-season or next pre-season. Re-signing our own free agents, picking up others and the draft will probably consume a decent number of roster spots; just as we saw this year with a huge rollover.

I'm not sure what Buckhalter received for a contract, but I do know that the Broncos brought in LaMont Jordan as well as J.J. Arrington (who didn't pass his physical to play for us because of a leg injury) to compete alongside him, and drafted Knowshon Moreno. That should speak volumes to Hillis' role on the team now and in the future. Little to obsolete.

Dreadnought
12-07-2009, 01:49 PM
Maybe, but I still think RB is the easiest position to replace. And given all of the big contracts we could hand out this offseason (Dumervil, Marshall, Scheffler, Orton) it wouldn't be the end of the world if Hillis slipped through the cracks.

In all seriousness I totally agree with you here. I don't think Hillis needs to slip through the cracks over money though; that won't be it. Dumervil, Marshall, Scheffler should get paid, Orton is earning an extension even if a skeptic like me doesn't think he's long term starter material. The idea of him as a backup beats Hell out of Chris Simms/Patrick Ramsey/Danny Kanell.

That probably explains my grumbling about Moreno. I hated the idea of using a number 1 on a RB - any RB, ever. Since we did it anyway I wanted to see Gale Sayers like production, and "all" we are getting is pretty good work from a kid who seems to have his head mostly screwed on right.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 01:49 PM
I could have caught a couple 3 yard screens andturned them into 4 yards real quick too. :werd:

Are we talkin' Bubble Screens here, babe?

topscribe
12-07-2009, 01:52 PM
Given ample enough opportunities, I feel a lot of people in decent shape could have done that on this board. Especially those who have played the game. Throw Claymore back there, run a couple of dives, clear out the A or B gap for the running back to slam through and that is a couple of yards. That was my bread and butter back in my football days. I'd even trust Claymore on off-tackle handerdooskies where he has to hit up the C.

Oh, but wait. My point was more or less, that in garbage time -- a lot of players in the NFL could have ran for 50 yards against a demoralized, second-rate group of Kansas City Chiefs. Just ask Quentin Griffin, he did it. Where is he again?

I saw Hillis take off on a sweep right, tear out of a DL's grasp and carry a LB for
several yards before landing on top of a safety.

And you say you could have done that? Sorry, but I've seen pictures, too . . .

------

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 01:53 PM
I would like to say I said Hillis wouldnt start before McDaniels was chosen as the HC. :D

I'm not so sure he might not have endured himself in mikes heart as a tough no nonsense RB he was the darling of all the fans last year until he was hurt..

yes it did indeed take 6-7 RB's to get mikes attention..

and frankly we all know that mike would have never never drafted Moreno either.. thus leaving mike with his smallish RB's backs whoever they were.. can't even remember now..

so would he have started maybe not, but I think we can mostly agree that he would have seen alot more action than he has this year..

claymore
12-07-2009, 01:54 PM
Are we talkin' Bubble Screens here, babe?

Im only trying to beat Hillis on the Depth Chart.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 01:55 PM
I saw Hillis take off on a sweep right, tear out of a DL's grasp and carry a LB for
several yards before landing on top of a safety.

And you say you could have done that? Sorry, but I've seen pictures, too . . .

------

I'd of also bent over the safeties face, put the ball behind my butt and dropped it on his facemask as a metaphor for me taking a shit on the competition too. Don't you forget it!

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Im only trying to beat Hillis on the Depth Chart.

Go on a few Mormon mission trips, take a few years off for football, play some linebacker and you'll be on your way. Hey, if Spencer Larsen did it -- why not you? You still have a few years in the tank.

slim
12-07-2009, 01:56 PM
Dream is a badass.

Please do not question this.

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd like to think so but I'm not optimistic. :mad:

unless he is dumber than a post he will be back or traded, his cap number is way to low to pass on..k

claymore
12-07-2009, 02:00 PM
Go on a few Mormon mission trips, take a few years off for football, play some linebacker and you'll be on your way. Hey, if Spencer Larsen did it -- why not you? You still have a few years in the tank.

Im mor intrested in helping with the cheerleaders than I am sweating it out with some big nasties.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 02:02 PM
Dream is a badass.

Please do not question this.

People can continue to make all the personal dispersions on me if they wish, I could care less. My point originally, through hyperbole, was to state that what Hillis did wasn't of consequence or special.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the Hillis supporters can really see the forest through the trees. My guess is not. It took how many weeks for him to get carries? It took what scenario for him to even be on the field? Putting 2 and 2 together is not difficult, but if it makes posters feel better for grasping onto straws to justify their beliefs on him, go for it.

When he starts playing an imperative and/or significant role in this offense because of his supposed abilities, let me know. I'll be interested to see it happen.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 02:02 PM
Im mor intrested in helping with the cheerleaders than I am sweating it out with some big nasties.

You would be no help to the cheerleaders. We would have no cheerleaders left.

They would see you coming, and that's the last we would see of them.



Thunder might take a liking to you, though . . .



-----

topscribe
12-07-2009, 02:06 PM
People can continue to make all the personal dispersions on me if they wish, I could care less. My point originally, through hyperbole, was to state that what Hillis did wasn't of consequence or special.

Sometimes I wonder whether or not the Hillis supporters can really see the forest through the trees. My guess is not. It took how many weeks for him to get carries? It took what scenario for him to even be on the field? Putting 2 and 2 together is not difficult, but if it makes posters feel better for grasping onto straws to justify their beliefs on him, go for it.

When he starts playing an imperative and/or significant role in this offense because of his supposed abilities, let me know. I'll be interested to see it happen.
.



jE2wPoagEgQ



-----

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 02:10 PM
Congratulations, you posted a highlight reel of Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis from last year under Mike Shanahan. Unfortunately, it is now 2009 and our head coach is Josh McDaniels. You might as well posted some clips from him from the Razorbacks. LOL.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 02:11 PM
But hey, I'm glad that Hillis lowlight reel took up 2:30 minutes or so of that 8 minute clip. WOOT.

Oh wait, there was some Razorback footage of him in there. Nice!!!

Northman
12-07-2009, 02:21 PM
I couldnt agree more. I do see Hillis as an outstanding FB and not a HB or every down RB. But I just dont think their is a place for him under this offense. Which is surprising with all the 3 yard pass plays,.

Exactly. My hope was that Hillis would become the next Howard Griffith. However, if he is having trouble with pass protection that is why he is falling down the depth chart. And obviously, he isnt considered good enough in the running game to surplant Moreno and Buck let alone Jordan of all people. Its unfortuante that he cant be more of a contributor on this team but im not about to say that Moreno and Buck should be splitting even more time with a third back. You cant build any consistency when you spread it around THAT much.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 02:24 PM
Given his ability to catch the ball, I figured he could replicate what Kevin Faulk did for the Patriots while McDaniels was there. That is what is surprising to me. Especially since Larsen is gettin' reps at FB. I'm not sure if Larsen played FB with 'Zona back in college though. Maybe Tops or someone closer to the area could elaborate. That is even more surprising, if he didn't, and supplanted Hillis.

claymore
12-07-2009, 02:25 PM
Exactly. My hope was that Hillis would become the next Howard Griffith. However, if he is having trouble with pass protection that is why he is falling down the depth chart. And obviously, he isnt considered good enough in the running game to surplant Moreno and Buck let alone Jordan of all people. Its unfortuante that he cant be more of a contributor on this team but im not about to say that Moreno and Buck should be splitting even more time with a third back. You can build any consistency when you spread it around THAT much.

My hopes exactly. I have more hope for him remaining on the team because he plays 3 positions, but any hope of him making the ROF is getting dimmer with each passing week.

Northman
12-07-2009, 02:32 PM
I agree. I want to see him on the field as well, but Not in place of Buck or Moreno.

Hopefully he becomes a better blocker and replaces Larsen. Because that is the only way we will ever see him again.

Again, this.

If Hillis wants time to play his best opportunity would be to improve his blocking skills and become a feature at FB where he could be even more dangerous than just a RB in the backfield. Ask the falcons how dangerous Griffith was in the SB when all their eyes were on Davis that year.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 02:33 PM
Which Falcon should we ask? Jamaal AndersoN?

HORSEPOWER 56
12-07-2009, 02:36 PM
I wouldn't mind seeing Hillis get more touches, but first things first... we need to get Eddie Royal more touches. He's all but disappeared this season. I thought McD was going to turn him into our Wes Welker. Man, was I wrong. :confused::tsk:

Northman
12-07-2009, 02:37 PM
Which Falcon should we ask? Jamaal AndersoN?

Hell, just ask our former Coach Reeves. Another one that got away from him. :lol:

topscribe
12-07-2009, 02:41 PM
But hey, I'm glad that Hillis lowlight reel took up 2:30 minutes or so of that 8 minute clip. WOOT.

Oh wait, there was some Razorback footage of him in there. Nice!!!

I've always been underwhelmed by people who will make fun of documentation and call it a rebuttal.

But hey, if that pops your cork . . . :coffee:

-----

BroncoWave
12-07-2009, 02:48 PM
To be fair, you could make a 2:30 minute highlight film of 90% of the players in the NFL and make them look like pro-bowlers.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 02:50 PM
To be fair, you could make a 2:30 minute highlight film of 90% of the players in the NFL and make them look like pro-bowlers.

Or you can watch every game in which they played and come away impressed. :whoknows:

-----

broncofaninfla
12-07-2009, 02:53 PM
Congratulations, you posted a highlight reel of Eddie Royal and Peyton Hillis from last year under Mike Shanahan. Unfortunately, it is now 2009 and our head coach is Josh McDaniels. You might as well posted some clips from him from the Razorbacks. LOL.

Maybe we should find one with Buck and Moreno fumbling, there are plenty of those clips in 09.

OK, we get it you LOVE Moreno and HATE Hillis. Not sure why you feel so threatend by Hillis, he and Moreno offer different skills for our team and could be a good compliment to each other if used correctly

claymore
12-07-2009, 02:53 PM
Or you can watch every game in which they played and come away impressed. :whoknows:

-----

So all 3 games? :D

broncofaninfla
12-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Requiem, do you root against the Broncos when Hillis has the ball?

topscribe
12-07-2009, 02:57 PM
So all 3 games? :D

Hillis played in 12 games last year . . .



Maybe we should find one with Buck and Moreno fumbling, there are plenty of those clips in 09.

OK, we get it you LOVE Moreno and HATE Hillis. Not sure why you feel so threatend by Hillis, he and Moreno offer different skills for our team and could be a good compliment to each other if used correctly

It's just amazing. In every single game where Hillis was given the opportunity to
put in significant time, he has abundantly produced. He has made circus catches
of passes, run over and around people, and done a decent job of blocking (by
RB standards, not FB). Yet there are those who would give you the impression
they've never seen him play: they just don't like his looks or his last name, or
something.

Whatever. I don't know why I have wasted all this time trying to discuss this
up to this point. I'm outta here . . . :wave:

-----

Poet
12-07-2009, 02:59 PM
You have Benson, and now you've picked up LJ.

Anyone ever tell you you're greedy? :tsk:

-----

We run them horses in Cincinnati.

claymore
12-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Hillis played in 12 games last year . . .




It's just amazing. In every single game where Hillis was given the opportunity to
put in significant time, he has abundantly produced. He has made circus catches
of passes, run over and around people, and done a decent job of blocking (by
RB standards, not FB). Yet there are those who would give you the impression
they've never seen him play: they just don't like his looks or his last name, or
something.
Whatever. I don't know why I have wasted all this time trying to discuss this
up to this point. I'm outta here . . . :wave:

-----People like JMCD?
He is the only one who can control how much he see's the ball.

topscribe
12-07-2009, 03:06 PM
People like JMCD?
He is the only one who can control how much he see's the ball.

Did you respond to the wrong post or something? Or did you fail to read any of
the posts I have already made? I have already said that I don't know how
either Moreno or Buck could be taken out in favor of Hillis.

As I said, I've wasted my time . . . :coffee:

-----

NightTrainLayne
12-07-2009, 03:14 PM
I would like to say I said Hillis wouldnt start before McDaniels was chosen as the HC. :D

So. .. you and McD agree on personnel issues? :D

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 03:15 PM
:eek: Really? Have you watched Buckhalter play this year? He's 3rd in the NFL in yards per carry. No way Hillis is close to as good as Buck has been this year.

Actually we don not know that he might not have put up really good numbers and with him in the backfield with Moreno we do not know if his numbers might have been better IF the defense did not know for sure who was getting the ball.

So please the conjecture of "NO way" is just that.

Now I happen to think Hillis in the BF with Bucky might even have made him a better runner.

Moreno seems to be tenative and indecisive in making cuts or hitting holes or even allowing his blocking to mature. I think he we be just that much better next year.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Poet
12-07-2009, 03:19 PM
I would HAPPILY give you Hillis over Buckhalter if I had to give you one of the two, and I wouldn't think twice about it. There is no way Hillis puts up Buckhalter's stats this year if given his carries. And that's not a knock against Hillis, that's just mentioning how well Buck has played this year.

This is going to be Buck's career year. I guess we just see it different. :salute:

claymore
12-07-2009, 03:19 PM
So. .. you and McD agree on personnel issues? :D

Its looking like we agree on certain things. :D

slim
12-07-2009, 03:27 PM
Its looking like we agree on certain things. :D

In that case, maybe the Mcdumbass comments weren't that far off :yo:

claymore
12-07-2009, 03:28 PM
in that case, maybe the mcdumbass comments weren't that far off :yo:

lmao!

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 03:39 PM
So I get this correct. Certain few posters are upset that a promising second year man had issuses in early games this year.

A guy that played his heart out before tearing his hamstring completely away from the tendon or bone and busted his ass in rehab afterwards. Then to top it all off had to learn a new scheme in his second season and prove his worth again.

Is that about right.
Some folks are threatened because he happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time in college behind mcfadden and jones last year an after thought in the draft, behind 6) only to find out he was probably the most effective of all of them.

Then this year having not seen him play Josh drafted a stud RB.

Hmmmm. That about sums it up.

Yet everyone feels thraetened about him.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

NameUsedBefore
12-07-2009, 04:09 PM
Seems like a Mike Bell situation all over again. Except Hillis seems so perfect for the sort of passing game McDaniels has that it confuses me as to why he's never in.

Tned
12-07-2009, 04:24 PM
Again, this.

If Hillis wants time to play his best opportunity would be to improve his blocking skills and become a feature at FB where he could be even more dangerous than just a RB in the backfield. Ask the falcons how dangerous Griffith was in the SB when all their eyes were on Davis that year.

I think this is key. Hillis needs to perform, whenever he's on the field, if he wants to keep getting on the field. Whether it is blocking as an FB or getting carries.

Now, it might be a bad break, but when he left town to attend the funeral, Larsen did well. I'm sure that's combined with Larsen doing well in practice.

Obviously, as fans, our number one goal is to have a successful offense, and we want the guys that are going to make that happen.

Tned
12-07-2009, 04:29 PM
Seems like a Mike Bell situation all over again. Except Hillis seems so perfect for the sort of passing game McDaniels has that it confuses me as to why he's never in.

Moreno's a first round pick who hopefully has very high upside, and Buckhalter has been amazing this year. Not sure what his YPC is, but it has to be pretty darn good.

The Glue Factory
12-07-2009, 04:30 PM
Seems like a Mike Bell situation all over again. Except Hillis seems so perfect for the sort of passing game McDaniels has that it confuses me as to why he's never in.

He had trouble in the early part of the season - penalties, fumbles, lining up wrong. Basically got himself in the coach's doghouse. Looks like he worked himself out of it. :beer:

Requiem / The Dagda
12-07-2009, 06:15 PM
Maybe we should find one with Buck and Moreno fumbling, there are plenty of those clips in 09.

Moreno gets yards, scores points and adds a unique dynamic to our offense. In many ways, similar to what Peterson does for the Vikings. He has one of the highest first down percentages (for his runs) among starting backs in the league, better than some (actually a lot) of the league's greatest at the position. Obviously, he is doing enough things right to be a starter for our team and contribute week in and week out. Too bad Hillis is not.


OK, we get it you LOVE Moreno and HATE Hillis. Not sure why you feel so threatend by Hillis, he and Moreno offer different skills for our team and could be a good compliment to each other if used correctly

LMFAO. Threatened? No. Just not enthused with his play. Either are the coaches, otherwise he would be getting more touches when it mattered.


Requiem, do you root against the Broncos when Hillis has the ball?

Nope, and considering he rarely gets the ball -- I wouldn't need to even think about that.


So I get this correct. Certain few posters are upset that a promising second year man had issuses in early games this year.

I'm not upset at all, just pointing out the fact that the coaches have said that he isn't doing the little things necessary to be a role player week in and week out.


A guy that played his heart out before tearing his hamstring completely away from the tendon or bone and busted his ass in rehab afterwards. Then to top it all off had to learn a new scheme in his second season and prove his worth again.

Most players bust their ass on the field and give it their all. Hillis isn't an exception. A lot of our players are learning a new scheme. He is learning slowly, apparently, and the coaches haven't seen him progress to the point where he gets to play. Sorry, no pity for him.


Is that about right.

If you like to wallow in delusions.


Some folks are threatened because he happen to be in the wrong place at the wrong time in college behind mcfadden and jones last year an after thought in the draft, behind 6) only to find out he was probably the most effective of all of them.

It wasn't wrong place at the wrong time. They brought in highly touted recruits who performed better than he did at the position. Thus, his switch.


Then this year having not seen him play Josh drafted a stud RB.

Wrong. McDaniels came in, just like any other coach, and evaluated the players on the team. He watched the tape, and then came to a decision. Obviously, he didn't think we were set at the position.

Thank you, come again.

Slick
12-07-2009, 10:18 PM
A few posters liked what they saw, garbage time or not, and hoped Hillis might get thrown a bone once in a while. I guess that's griping or bitching...whatever.

No one said start him, or that he was even better than Moreno or Buckhalter. He can be effective in certain situations.

I think he'd be perfect in a pro formation paired with Moreno or Buck, but we don't run that formation anymore and probably never will under McDaniels.

He probably won't find much success in this system. He needs to play in a West Coast offense.

Lonestar
12-07-2009, 11:43 PM
A few posters liked what they saw, garbage time or not, and hoped Hillis might get thrown a bone once in a while. I guess that's griping or bitching...whatever.

No one said start him, or that he was even better than Moreno or Buckhalter. He can be effective in certain situations.

I think he'd be perfect in a pro formation paired with Moreno or Buck, but we don't run that formation anymore and probably never will under McDaniel's.

He probably won't find much success in this system. He needs to play in a West Coast offense.

with the exception of the last sentence I pretty much agree with you 100%..

now if anyone saw the presser today Josh was very complimentary of him as well as Moreno and Bucky.. thought he ran the 4 minute offense all by his lonesome to kill the clock the last 8 minutes.. or words to that effect..

MOtorboat
12-07-2009, 11:44 PM
Michael Turner was a backup too. :D

lol.

bcbronc
12-08-2009, 03:18 AM
Hillis showed enough that if we're up by 17 in the 4th quarter, I'd rather have Hillis run the clock out than pound Moreno or Buck.

and if/when Buckhalter misses a game, I'm comfortable with Hillis getting some touches, and confident he'd make a big play or two.

he's a good, versatile relief player that seems to be improving as he gets used to the system. But I'll feel better about him when he wins one of those black jerseys they hand out for busting your butt in Dove Valley.

weazel
12-08-2009, 11:45 AM
I think they should make a statue for Hillis! Maybe add him to the ROF, right next to barrel man!

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-08-2009, 01:20 PM
There is no room in this stacked offense for hillis, hopefully he has trade value coming into the offseason or shanny might want him.

claymore
12-08-2009, 01:33 PM
Lets trade Hillis and Orton for David Carr!

Gamechanger
12-08-2009, 01:36 PM
Lets trade Hillis and Orton for David Carr!

:lol::lol::lol::lol:

topscribe
12-08-2009, 02:23 PM
Lets trade Hillis and Orton for David Carr!

What a concept! With you at the helm, the Broncos would be right up there with the Chiefs and the Raiders! :elefant:

-----

claymore
12-08-2009, 02:25 PM
What a concept! With you at the helm, the Broncos would be right up there with the Chiefs and the Raiders! :elefant:

-----

Im an untapped resource.

spikerman
12-08-2009, 06:02 PM
There is no room in this stacked offense for hillis, hopefully he has trade value coming into the offseason or shanny might want him.
I sure would feel better if this "stacked" offense got in the end zone on a more consistent basis.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-08-2009, 06:36 PM
I sure would feel better if this "stacked" offense got in the end zone on a more consistent basis.

Well that's on my main man Kyle Orton and McDaniels' sometimes predictable red zone play calling, but they did much better in KC than anywhere else when it came to red zone efficiency, they're learning! To deny that our offense is stacked with talent would be crazy.

Poet
12-08-2009, 06:43 PM
Well that's on my main man Kyle Orton and McDaniels' sometimes predictable red zone play calling, but they did much better in KC than anywhere else when it came to red zone efficiency, they're learning! To deny that our offense is stacked with talent would be crazy.

One borderline great WR, one good number two, a good pass catching TE and a very good pass blocking TE, one future star at RB, one servicable secondary RB, a solid QB. It's stacked. Why that means Hillis shouldn't be on the field is beyond me, though.

Dean
12-08-2009, 07:05 PM
I sure would feel better if this "stacked" offense got in the end zone on a more consistent basis.

Yep. . .17th in yards and 21st in scoring.:tsk:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1

hamrob
12-08-2009, 11:52 PM
I think Hillis needs more carries. He's a bruiser with decent speed...ala Alstot. They should be giving him the rock more against the physical defenses. Those are the ones that stonewall Buck and Moreno. Let Hillis soften them up and then crack it off tackle to one of those guys.

hamrob
12-08-2009, 11:53 PM
Yep. . .17th in yards and 21st in scoring.:tsk:

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?tabSeq=2&offensiveStatisticCategory=GAME_STATS&conference=ALL&role=TM&season=2009&seasonType=REG&d-447263-s=TOTAL_YARDS_GAME_AVG&d-447263-o=2&d-447263-n=1Whose the leader of the Offense?

In all fairness...our numbers are down some due to Orton being banged up and the Simms experiment.

Ravage!!!
12-09-2009, 12:26 AM
Whose the leader of the Offense?

In all fairness...our numbers are down some due to Orton being banged up and the Simms experiment.

for that quarter of football?

NightTrainLayne
12-09-2009, 12:35 AM
for that quarter of football?

It was almost an entire game. Full second half against the Redskins, and I think there was only something like 5 minutes left in the first half against the Chargers before Orton came back in. 55 minutes of game-time action.

Ravage!!!
12-09-2009, 12:46 AM
It was almost an entire game. Full second half against the Redskins, and I think there was only something like 5 minutes left in the first half against the Chargers before Orton came back in. 55 minutes of game-time action.

yeah.. well... either way.

Elevation inc
12-09-2009, 04:26 AM
we could have actually really used hillis against pitt, baltimore, washington when are run game was getting stonewalled, his ability to power over people would have at least balanced things a bit more......he should get some early carries against tough physical defenses...then close out games to prevent injury to moreno or buck.....i would actually be stoked for our top 3 backs next year to be moreno(starter), bucky(Change of pace), hillis(power)

broncofaninfla
12-09-2009, 08:37 AM
we could have actually really used hillis against pitt, baltimore, washington when are run game was getting stonewalled, his ability to power over people would have at least balanced things a bit more......he should get some early carries against tough physical defenses...then close out games to prevent injury to moreno or buck.....i would actually be stoked for our top 3 backs next year to be moreno(starter), bucky(Change of pace), hillis(power)

After reading some of the comments on the threads concerning Hillis, I think some of the members would prefer to lose with Moreno than win with Hilis.

Requiem / The Dagda
12-09-2009, 10:29 AM
You present a false dilemma. As if we would win with Hillis toting the rock in those games anyways.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-09-2009, 11:11 AM
After reading some of the comments on the threads concerning Hillis, I think some of the members would prefer to lose with Moreno than win with Hilis.

We've won eight games with Moreno, no need to throw a slow fullback into the mix until buck or moreno go down.

broncofaninfla
12-09-2009, 11:30 AM
You present a false dilemma. As if we would win with Hillis toting the rock in those games anyways.

We sure didn't win with Moreno and Buck running the ball. Hillis offers power that Buck and Moreno don't have. It would be nice to use him in the situations that call for that rather than asking Buck and Moreno to do something Hillis is better suited to do. I'm not suggesting he start. I'm comfortable with Buck and Moreno, just feel he has earned the right for more game reps and in the stretch in December, a power running back is worth thier weigh in gold.

broncofaninfla
12-09-2009, 11:35 AM
We've one eight games with Moreno, no need to throw a slow fullback into the mix until buck or moreno go down.

Slow FB? the 240 pound Hillis ran a 4.5- 40, the same as Buck and Moreno. Try again......

Requiem / The Dagda
12-09-2009, 11:37 AM
We lost for a variety of reasons, not being able to run the ball in several games was one of many. Hopefully he can get 5-8 carries a game when we need to punch it in in short yardage, although Moreno has shown he is very capable in that regard, producing one of the highest first-down percentages for starters league-wide. Just so you know, I am not anti-Hillis. The Beat (my old draft blog) still exists where I applaud his selection in the round we chose him at and detail why he'd be a good fit with us. Unfortunately, or fortunately, a regime change happened, and he is having to adjust, as are many others.

Prior to the RB injury plague last year, Hillis was not getting many chances. He isn't getting many chances now, for whatever reason. I have my beliefs, you and others have yours. Perhaps he just isn't the quality of prospect or player some like to believe. Could be the reason why he was an afterthought in the draft and fell to the seventh round. Might also be the reason why he isn't seeing major playing time. Who knows. Great college players aren't always good professionals. We see that time and time again.

I agree though, if Hillis can run the ball effectively and be a short yardage man -- he is worth a lot to us as we move down the stretch.

KyleOrtonArmySoldier#128
12-09-2009, 11:43 AM
Slow FB? the 240 pound Hillis ran a 4.5- 40, the same as Buck and Moreno. Try again......

Game speed and 40 time are not comparable. McDaniels gave him chances and all he did was fumble and commit stupid penalties.

Lonestar
12-09-2009, 11:49 AM
It is funny looking at the many comments.

One was many would rather lose with moreno than win with hillis. We have to remember many have staked their reps/credibility on moreno and can't see the forest from the trees.

Another commented on hillis being to slow IIRC his 40 is not slow at all for a 250 RB. Not the burner that Bucky is but almost the same time moreno has.

Face it folks Hillis can be. Very useful in certain areas on the field. Not suggesting he should start but to have a huge RB that punishes tacklers and has great hands is a HUGE plus. HUGE.

I suspect that now that it seems he gets the scheme better we will see him getting more touches especially in 3rd and short and inside the five.

Fear not dream Josh has way to much invested in moreno to NOT start him unless he continues to have butter fingers.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Tned-Mobile
12-09-2009, 11:51 AM
with the exception of the last sentence I pretty much agree with you 100%..

now if anyone saw the presser today Josh was very complimentary of him as well as Moreno and Bucky.. thought he ran the 4 minute offense all by his lonesome to kill the clock the last 8 minutes.. or words to that effect..

McDaniels had previously talked about the value he saw with Jordan, which was running the 4 minute offense, which is essentially the "get some first downs on the ground and kill the clock" offense.

It's good that Hillis showed himself well in that role, because I think he brings more to the team then Jordan, which includes being available if one of the other backs gets hurt. In the few carries that Jordan has gotten this season, he has shown that we aren't going to get much out of him if we need to turn to him in a game we are still trying to win.

Tned-Mobile
12-09-2009, 11:54 AM
Game speed and 40 time are not comparable. McDaniels gave him chances and all he did was fumble and commit stupid penalties.

He did not fumble the ball as a running back. He had one fumble as a kick returner. As to stupid penalties, he's not alone in that regard. Did you see the first half of the Dallas game and all the penalties? Plenty of guys on the team commit penalties.

Lonestar
12-09-2009, 12:00 PM
Game speed and 40 time are not comparable. McDaniels gave him chances and all he did was fumble and commit stupid penalties.

Yep he fumbled while taking a kick return. Ahahahaha not exactly a place for a 250 pounder IMHO.

As for penalties lining up wrong. First few games IIRC it is not like he saw the field much and it was infact his THIRD scheme In 3 years.
Give the kid a break it was not like he was the only player that made mistakes.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

claymore
12-09-2009, 12:01 PM
It is funny looking at the many comments.

One was many would rather lose with moreno than win with hillis. We have to remember many have staked their reps/credibility on moreno and can't see the forest from the trees.

Another commented on hillis being to slow IIRC his 40 is not slow at all for a 250 RB. Not the burner that Bucky is but almost the same time moreno has.

Face it folks Hillis can be. Very useful in certain areas on the field. Not suggesting he should start but to have a huge RB that punishes tacklers and has great hands is a HUGE plus. HUGE.

I suspect that now that it seems he gets the scheme better we will see him getting more touches especially in 3rd and short and inside the five.

Fear not dream Josh has way to much invested in moreno to NOT start him unless he continues to have butter fingers.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Hillis is where he is best suited. Warming the bench. He is a good third stringer. One of the best.

Lonestar
12-09-2009, 12:10 PM
Seems Tned and I have the same thoughts on Hillis.

Sorry typing is not my forte and on this baby keyboard I'm slow as crap so takes so long to get it he has beat me to the rebuttals.

These are great for keeping in touch but slow.


Sent from my BlackBerry Smartphone provided by Alltel.

Dzone
12-09-2009, 12:55 PM
Hillis is white. He is a running back. Everybody knows you cant be a white guy and play running back...LOL

Poet
12-09-2009, 01:06 PM
Hillis is white. He is a running back. Everybody knows you cant be a white guy and play running back...LOL

:tsk:

Black guys make shitty QBs too.

wbmustang
12-09-2009, 01:09 PM
Hillis is white. He is a running back. Everybody knows you cant be a white guy and play running back...LOL


:tsk:

Black guys make shitty QBs too.

Lol @ the last two posts. Although I think Toby Gerhart from Stanford runs as hard as I have seen anyone run.