Gradishar's Best Shot...

[SmilinAssasSin27]

http://cbs4denver.com/broncos/gradishar.broncos.hall.2.636071.html

Sorry if already posted, but I didn't see it...

Gradishar Now Has Best Chance To Get Into Hall
Reporting
Gary Miller DENVER (CBS4) ―
This year is former Denver Broncos linebacker Randy Gradishar's last chance to be elected to the Pro Football Hall of Fame as a modern player. Observers say it is probably he best chance to get in.

"It just feels a little different," Gradishar told CBS4 Broncos Insider Gary Miller. "There is a lot of personal excitement going on, a lot of great anticipation, but you still have to wait until that day comes and they actually make the selection."

Gradishar will find out the day before the Super Bowl if he's been elected. Rocky Mountain News sports writer Jeff Legwold will present Gradishar's case.

"I think one of the easiest things to do is to remind people how productive he was throughout his entire career, beginning to end," Legwold said. "He had no lulls, there were no dips, he was a consistent performer from beginning to end."

Gradishar was the leader of the famed Orange Crush defense as a linebacker in Denver from 1974 to 1983. He played in 145 games and was inducted into the Broncos' Ring of Fame in 1989.

[dogfish]

c'mon selection committee, do the right thing. . . .

[Npba900]

Does anyone know if there is a video available for purchase that highlights Gradishars pro career!!! I would purchase the vid in a heart beat.

[Dean]

Does anyone know if there is a video available for purchase that highlights Gradishars pro career!!! I would purchase the vid in a heart beat.

As would I. He was my favorite player for years.

It didn't matter whether it was a short, intermediate, or long pass. When the ball came down, he was there. Whether inside run or outside run, he was in on the tackle. You could guarantee that where ever the ball was on the field Gradishar would be there too.

He had the innate ability to know where the ball was going on short yardage and goal line plays. I don't know how many times I saw him go airborne and meet the ball carrier for a loss on the goal line. When he made a tackle which was a dozen or more times a game there was no fighting for extra yards it was straight to the ground and often the RB ended on his back.

What a player. All of you that were too young to watch him play missed something special.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

The worst thing is - I heard that this is his last year of eligibility, so this is his last chance to make it.

[dogfish]

The worst thing is - I heard that this is his last year of eligibility, so this is his last chance to make it.

it's his last chance before he becomes a senior candidate-- he'll still be eligible, he just goes to a different list. . . .

[Hobe]

The worst thing is - I heard that this is his last year of eligibility, so this is his last chance to make it.

It is his last year of eligibility to go in as a modern era player. After this year he be nominated by the ol' timer selection committee. I would much rather see him go in this year.

[Denver Native (Carol)]

it's his last chance before he becomes a senior candidate-- he'll still be eligible, he just goes to a different list. . . .

Thanks for clearing that up:salute:

[HolyDiver]

Some players are inducted 50 years later even.

[topscribe]

As would I. He was my favorite player for years.

It didn't matter whether it was a short, intermediate, or long pass. When the ball came down, he was there. Whether inside run or outside run, he was in on the tackle. You could guarantee that where ever the ball was on the field Gradishar would be there too.

He had the innate ability to know where the ball was going on short yardage and goal line plays. I don't know how many times I saw him go airborne and meet the ball carrier for a loss on the goal line. When he made a tackle which was a dozen or more times a game there was no fighting for extra yards it was straight to the ground and often the RB ended on his back.

What a player. All of you that were too young to watch him play missed something special.

It is just a travesty that Jack Lambert has been in the HOF and Gradishar
has not. Lambert was a great player; don't get me wrong. But Lambert had
a great supporting cast.

Gradishar was that cast.

-----

[HolyDiver]

It is just a travesty that Jack Lambert has been in the HOF and Gradishar
has not. Lambert was a great player; don't get me wrong. But Lambert had
a great supporting cast.

Gradishar was that cast.

-----

I was pissed about that when it was actually happening.............I remember Lambert and Ham getting all the attention..............While we had Gradishar and Jackson. But that's what happens when you win 4 Super bowls in the same decade.

[topscribe]

I was pissed about that when it was actually happening.............I remember Lambert and Ham getting all the attention..............While we had Gradishar and Jackson. But that's what happens when you win 4 Super bowls in the same decade.

That's true. Trouble is, Gradishar and Jackson didn't have a cast of all-stars
all the way up and down the line, on both sides of the ball, to complement
them. I can't help to think that the rest of the Steelers made Lambert and
Ham better, whereas Gradishar and Jackson made the Broncos better.

Maybe that is an oversimplification, but there may be some truth to it.

-----

[Denver Native (Carol)]

Some players are inducted 50 years later even.

Well, then MAYBE Floyd still has a shot

[topscribe]

Well, then MAYBE Floyd still has a shot

Little had a supporting cast problem, too. He ran behind one of the most
pathetic offensive lines ever to shame the annals of professional football.
Therefore, his numbers do not show what kind of superstar he really was.

It was a waste that he wasn't drafted by a decent football team. :tsk:

-----

[CoachChaz]

So am I to assume that great players only play for great teams and no players from mediocre teams ever get into the Hall?

Gradishar and Jackson as good as Ham and Lambert? I'll pretend I didn't read that.

[topscribe]

So am I to assume that great players only play for great teams and no players from mediocre teams ever get into the Hall?

Gradishar and Jackson as good as Ham and Lambert? I'll pretend I didn't read that.

Now, that is a silly comment. Anytime I need words put into my mouth, I'll
consult with you, okay? ;)

Yup, I firmly believe Jackson was as good as Ham, and that Gradishar was
better than Lambert. Absolutely. :nod:

If you hold a different opinion, fine. Hold it. But if you are going the ridicule
route, you are picking the wrong kiddie. I was 32 years old when the
Broncos lost their first Super Bowl. I was able to compare them firsthand, as
an adult.

-----

[HolyDiver]

Now, that is a silly comment. Anytime I need words put into my mouth, I'll
consult with you, okay? ;)

Yup, I firmly believe Jackson was as good as Ham, and that Gradishar was
better than Lambert. Absolutely. :nod:

If you hold a different opinion, fine. Hold it. But if you are going the ridicule
route, you are picking the wrong kiddie. I was 32 years old when the
Broncos lost their first Super Bowl. I was able to compare them firsthand, as
an adult.

-----

No question about it.................I agree 100% ...............Ham and Lambert got voted to Pro bowls whether they had great seasons or not, strictly on name alone. Gradishar was the more priductive player......BY FAR.

[CoachChaz]

Now, that is a silly comment. Anytime I need words put into my mouth, I'll
consult with you, okay? ;)

Yup, I firmly believe Jackson was as good as Ham, and that Gradishar was
better than Lambert. Absolutely. :nod:

If you hold a different opinion, fine. Hold it. But if you are going the ridicule
route, you are picking the wrong kiddie. I was 32 years old when the
Broncos lost their first Super Bowl. I was able to compare them firsthand, as
an adult.

-----

Slow down...I asked a question boss. To me it sounded like you were saying the Denver LB's were as good as Pittsburgh's. If so...I will disagree.

[HolyDiver]

Slow down...I asked a question boss. To me it sounded like you were saying the Denver LB's were as good as Pittsburgh's. If so...I will disagree.

They were actually better Coach........And Swenson's career was cut short by inuries. But Gradishar and TJ were better than Lambert and Ham, IMO.

[haroldthebarrel]

The fact that Gradishar isnt in the hall of fame is a hall of shame.

What more can you do except winning superbowls as far as having a great career.
And last I knew winning the league was a team accomplishment.

[CoachChaz]

They were actually better Coach........And Swenson's career was cut short by inuries. But Gradishar and TJ were better than Lambert and Ham, IMO.

Just a little bias, huh?

It's an argument that will never cease. I'd love to say my Broncos were better. But it's a geographical argument.

When they were all in their hey day, I was growing up in PA. Maybe I just saw more of the Steel Curtain than I did the Orange Crush. Either way, our opinions will differ.

[HolyDiver]

Just a little bias, huh?

It's an argument that will never cease. I'd love to say my Broncos were better. But it's a geographical argument.

When they were all in their hey day, I was growing up in PA. Maybe I just saw more of the Steel Curtain than I did the Orange Crush. Either way, our opinions will differ.

Every year, it was the same it seemed like..........Steelers win the Super Bowl, and of course get more recognition.............And Lambert and Ham benefitted from it.

[Lonestar]

it's his last chance before he becomes a senior candidate-- he'll still be eligible, he just goes to a different list. . . .


But there are a gazillion over there and only one maybe two a year get in.. The odds are much higher here than over there.. Until such time as they open up the total numbers of players that can go in each year and dedicate 2 per year from the senior list he is pretty much toast.. Having to compete with the specials each year coaches/owners/GM's/and management takes away valuable spots from the players. The total reason that folks watch the game and have made it the best sport out there.. I think this last group should be brought in as a supplemental in addition to the "7" players each year..

[Bronco Bible]

I would have to agree with Top & HD IMHO Gradishar & Jackson were equal to or superior to Lambert & Hamm.:coffee:

[Lonestar]

They were actually better Coach........And Swenson's career was cut short by inuries. But Gradishar and TJ were better than Lambert and Ham, IMO.

your a homer.. I've been watching football for 55 years and although they are my favorites Lambert was on par with Butkis he was mean LB feared by all that played him.. Randy was not feared, but highly respected.. They were both game planned for, but Lambert was a better LB.. IMO

[Orangeblood]

I won't get into the who was better argument ...Lambert was a mean SOB

But Gradishar was one of my all time favorites, and I LOVED watching him play. He was amazing on short yardage/goal line situations. His anticipation was amazing as well. He never missed a game, and averaged over 14 tackles a game. He wasn't a flashy guy ..he just got the job done ..period. I remember Walter Payton said that the hardest hit he ever took was from Randy. The man deserves to be in the Hall !

[HolyDiver]

Just a little bias, huh?

It's an argument that will never cease. I'd love to say my Broncos were better. But it's a geographical argument.

When they were all in their hey day, I was growing up in PA. Maybe I just saw more of the Steel Curtain than I did the Orange Crush. Either way, our opinions will differ.


Two former Broncos, that were GREAT players, but still to this day have not not the credit they deserved are Gradishar and Louis Wright................Wright was so good, teams simply stopped throwing to his side............But we never even hear his name mentioned when we talk about the HOF.

[CoachChaz]

Every lifelong Broncos fan will think Grad and TJ were better. I'd love to say it myself, but you have to look at it from a fan/geographical outlook.

Example...a long time Browns fan would probably say Ham and Lambert were better, whereas a long time Chiefs fan may saw Gradishar and TJ were better.

Much like I could tell you every little detail about the Cowboys. It's an opinion based on bias like and/or geographical reality.

[CoachChaz]

Two former Broncos, that were GREAT players, but still to this day have not not the credit they deserved are Gradishar and Louis Wright................Wright was so good, teams simply stopped throwing to his side............But we never even hear his name mentioned when we talk about the HOF.

I won't argue that Gradishar and Wright don't belong in the hall because they do. But if Lambert or Ham are ahead of Grad and TJ...I'm not shocked in the least.

[topscribe]

Every year, it was the same it seemed like..........Steelers win the Super Bowl, and of course get more recognition.............And Lambert and Ham benefitted from it.

Well, that's the thing. You know, all that has to happen is that a player is a
Bronco, and if we think he is great, we are biased. Did I say Craig Morton was
a better QB than Terry Bradshaw, that Barney Chavous was better than
Dwight White, that Mike Montler was better than Mike Webster?

Pittsburgh had a better QB, receivers, offensive line, defensive line, and
probably secondary as a whole (although Louis Wright and Billy Thompson
were more than a match for anybody). Joe Rizzo was a pretty ordinary LB,
but throw him out and take Gradishar, Jackson, and Swenson against
Pittsburgh or anybody, and they are a match, and maybe better. Where the
hell does anyone think "Orange Crush" came from?

I saw a lot of Lambert and Ham because the Steelers were always on TV,
due to their excellence. I saw a lot of a whole lot if LBs, ever since Ray
Nitschke of the Packers. I have seen few LBs with the altheticism and pure
acumen of Randy Gradishar, even today.

Gradishar was the better player. Lambert had the better team.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. :coffee:

-----

[Lonestar]

Every lifelong Broncos fan will think Grad and TJ were better. I'd love to say it myself, but you have to look at it from a fan/geographical outlook.

Example...a long time Browns fan would probably say Ham and Lambert were better, whereas a long time Chiefs fan may saw Gradishar and TJ were better.

Much like I could tell you every little detail about the Cowboys. It's an opinion based on bias like and/or geographical reality.


As well as the voters, there are probably 3 to 1 more voters east of the Mississippi that there are west of it.. that is where most of the PRO teams are.. The same argument rages within the college ranks. USC supporters think they are overlooked each year..

The real problem is once he becomes a senior far fewer voters even know his name let alone have ever seen him in game.. Since they where only in ONE SB that is probably the only film many will see of him.. That also applies to THIS FORUM..


He was a special player that made the Orange Crush better and because of that he got many more tackles that a Lambert type because the rest of the defense helped him out.. Their defense was built around DL and our was LB based.

[mclark]

I was pissed about that when it was actually happening.............I remember Lambert and Ham getting all the attention..............While we had Gradishar and Jackson. But that's what happens when you win 4 Super bowls in the same decade.

And not much real media coverage in the Rocky Mountains.

[Lonestar]

And not much real media coverage in the Rocky Mountains.


almost no voters west of the Mississippi only those in NFL cities and most of them are in NFC cities..

[CoachChaz]

My points exactly

[HolyDiver]

Well, that's the thing. You know, all that has to happen is that a player is a
Bronco, and if we think he is great, we are biased. Did I say Craig Morton was
a better QB than Terry Bradshaw, that Barney Chavous was better than
Dwight White, that Mike Montler was better than Mike Webster?

Pittsburgh had a better QB, receivers, offensive line, defensive line, and
probably secondary as a whole (although Louis Wright and Billy Thompson
were more than a match for anybody). Joe Rizzo was a pretty ordinary LB,
but throw him out and take Gradishar, Jackson, and Swenson against
Pittsburgh or anybody, and they are a match, and maybe better. Where the
hell does anyone think "Orange Crush" came from?

I saw a lot of Lambert and Ham because the Steelers were always on TV,
due to their excellence. I saw a lot of a whole lot if LBs, ever since Ray
Nitschke of the Packers. I have seen few LBs with the altheticism and pure
acumen of Randy Gradishar, even today.

Gradishar was the better player. Lambert had the better team.

That's my story, and I'm sticking to it. :coffee:

-----


Well said..............If a player is bad I'll say it. If a player is good I'll say that too. Doesn't matter what team he plays for...............Just like alot of fans do not like Romo because he played fro the Raiders and at one time as a Bronco, spit in a players face..................But the bottom line was, we won two Super Bowls with him and that might not have happened if he was not on our team. He was that important to our success.....................As all this Steeler success unfolded right in front of me, I knew, Gradishar was getting the shaft.

[haroldthebarrel]

the loss of Romo was a big loss in my opinion since after him we went after fast linebackers , ideally suited for the will who didnt have the size to play SAM.

As for Gradishar.
Ten years in the league.
2000 tackles.
20 interceptions. 4 tds
20 sacks
13 fumble recoveries.

Average it out to a season and tell me how many linebackers averaged 200 tackles, 2 interceptions and two sacks with one fumble recovery. That means an average season by Gradishar would be contending for defensive player of the year in every year.
Tell me again why he isnt in the hall of fame?

[CoachChaz]

I just find it hard to believe the Steelers defense was good in spite of Lambert and Ham as opposed to being because of them. That's like saying Jerry Rice was good because of his team...not because of his skill.

[BroncoJoe]

Tell me again why he isnt in the hall of fame?

Ummm...... uhhhhhh...... hmmmmmm.......

No logical reason other than bias.

[haroldthebarrel]

I just find it hard to believe the Steelers defense was good in spite of Lambert and Ham as opposed to being because of them. That's like saying Jerry Rice was good because of his team...not because of his skill.


good point. why must one player be good because of another?
Why cant we say jerry rice made joe montana a good players just the same as montana made rice a good player?

Thats one gripe I have. The other I have is why the hell does superbowl wins means so much to whether NN goes into the HOF.
The voters really screwed the system up by letting in almost all the 22 Steelers that were on the field in the seventies. A HOF vote is a personal vote, and not a vote of confidence that the team he played were the best at that time.

[BigDaddyBronco]

Gradishar's best shot to be in the HOF would have been if he played for the Cowboys, Steelers, Packers, Raiders, etc.
I don't know if it is a bias against the Broncos or if it just the lack of media from the mountain states that are voting for the hall.

[Lonestar]

the loss of Romo was a big loss in my opinion since after him we went after fast linebackers , ideally suited for the will who didnt have the size to play SAM.

As for Gradishar.
Ten years in the league.
2000 tackles.
20 interceptions. 4 tds
20 sacks
13 fumble recoveries.

Average it out to a season and tell me how many linebackers with 200 tackles, 2 interceptions and two sacks with one fumble recovery. That means an average season by Gradishar would be contending for defensive player of the year in every year.
Tell me again why he isnt in the hall of fame?

Let me also add here although his numbers are outstanding.. The truth is many of the knocks on him from the voters are the the Broncos "padded his numbers" those numbers were before Elias sports bureau started making the stats official throughout the league..

Because his numbers were on the moon and there is little footage available to verify it they really thought someone was adding to his legend.. The numbers were so much higher than his contemporaries.. But then of course we all know that our defense has been LB based/featured since before he was here. Therefore the LB tackles are going to be higher than other DL based teams..

[topscribe]

I just find it hard to believe the Steelers defense was good in spite of Lambert and Ham as opposed to being because of them. That's like saying Jerry Rice was good because of his team...not because of his skill.

L.C. Greenwood
Dwight White
Joe Greene
Ernie Holmes
Loren Toews
J.T. Thomas
Mel Blount
Donnie Shell
Glen Edwards

A couple backup LBs:

Dave LaCrosse
Sidney Thornton
(Either who could have started for many teams)

Yep, they were good . . . :nod:

----

[CoachChaz]

good point. why must one player be good because of another?
Why cant we say jerry rice made joe montana a good players just the same as montana made rice a good player?

Thats one gripe I have. The other I have is why the hell does superbowl wins means so much to whether NN goes into the HOF.
The voters really screwed the system up by letting in almost all the 22 Steelers that were on the field in the seventies. A HOF vote is a personal vote, and not a vote of confidence that the team he played were the best at that time.

I won't disagree at all. It's all in the eye of the beholder, to borrow a cliche. When I was younger, you couldn't convince me that there was a better LB than Mecklenburg. I actually argued (for arguments sake) that he was better than LT, Singletary and other HOFers of his day.

[HolyDiver]

I won't disagree at all. It's all in the eye of the beholder, to borrow a cliche. When I was younger, you couldn't convince me that there was a better LB than Mecklenburg. I actually argued (for arguments sake) that he was better than LT, Singletary and other HOFers of his day.


As good as Mecklenburg was...............Gradishar was on a whole new level..

[haroldthebarrel]

Ummm...... uhhhhhh...... hmmmmmm.......

No logical reason other than bias.

well, it appears to me it is harder to argue against Gradishar than not.
the argument is a pure logical one as well. seven time pro bowler. Defensive player of the year. best player on a defense that almost won the superbowl despite commiting seven turnovers by halftime. Tell me how many defenses in THE HISTORY OF THE NFL could do that to the second best team in the league?

There is one writer who really championed Gradishar in the HOF and that is Buchsbaum. Perhaps the best writer of them all.

[CoachChaz]

L.C. Greenwood
Dwight White
Joe Greene
Ernie Holmes
Loren Toews
J.T. Thomas
Mel Blount
Donnie Shell
Glen Edwards

A couple backup LBs:

Dave LaCrosse
Sidney Thornton
(Either who could have started for many teams)

Yep, they were good . . . :nod:

----

No arguement, but even the slew footed Steve Largent set a few records playing for a medioce team. He also played in Seattle and he made it in. I won't argue that Gradishar belongs there, but to say a player is good because of his team OR that a team is good because of a player is complete speculation.

[topscribe]

I won't disagree at all. It's all in the eye of the beholder, to borrow a cliche. When I was younger, you couldn't convince me that there was a better LB than Mecklenburg. I actually argued (for arguments sake) that he was better than LT, Singletary and other HOFers of his day.

I was a crazy Mecklenburg fan.

But LT may have been the G.O.A.T. OLB, IMO.

(My, look at the acronyms. :laugh: )

-----

[Lonestar]

good point. why must one player be good because of another?
Why cant we say jerry rice made joe montana a good players just the same as montana made rice a good player?

Thats one gripe I have. The other I have is why the hell does superbowl wins means so much to whether NN goes into the HOF.
The voters really screwed the system up by letting in almost all the 22 Steelers that were on the field in the seventies. A HOF vote is a personal vote, and not a vote of confidence that the team he played were the best at that time.

But those Steelers teams were very good and loaded with talent.. Our single SB season had nothing per se but defense.. We just did not dominate anyone.. We won a lot of those games coming from behind to win at the buzzer.. It was great for DEN but hardly a great team in NFL terms..

I will harp again the vast majority of the voters are east of the Mississippi or NFC city teams and our players exposures were poor at best and when we did play them we in alot of cases were embarrassed by them..

The steelers embarrassed alot of NFC teams.. We did not.. let me add that is what the voters remember

[haroldthebarrel]

Let me also add here although his numbers are outstanding.. The truth is many of the knocks on him from the voters are the the Broncos "padded his numbers" those numbers were before Elias sports bureau started making the stats official throughout the league..

Because his numbers were on the moon and there is little footage available to verify it they really thought someone was adding to his legend.. The numbers were so much higher than his contemporaries.. But then of course we all know that our defense has been LB based/featured since before he was here. Therefore the LB tackles are going to be higher than other DL based teams..

LOL look at a Raven game and count how many times Ray Lewis, who is a great player really tackles the ball. Look then at the stat sheet after the game to see how many assists he suddenly gets just since he scrapes and happens to be near the play.

That argument is stupid. Yeah stats are padded. So what?
If you think there is a fish in the water, go look at the tapes and make AN INFORMED opinion. Dont go by the assumption that "I have heard denver padded gradishars stats so therefore he mustnt be all that great".

[CoachChaz]

I was a crazy Mecklenburg fan.

But LT may have been the G.O.A.T. OLB, IMO.

(My, look at the acronyms. :laugh: )

-----

I knew LT and Singletary were better, but I had to defend the Snow Goose. (there's a trivia question for MB).

[topscribe]

No arguement, but even the slew footed Steve Largent set a few records playing for a medioce team. He also played in Seattle and he made it in. I won't argue that Gradishar belongs there, but to say a player is good because of his team OR that a team is good because of a player is complete speculation.

But to say who was the better team is not. Who won four Super Bowls?

A player is very dependent on his supporting cast for his own production.
I have already pointed out Floyd Little's plight. Someone brought up Joe
Montana. Where would he have been without Rice, John Taylor, Dwight Clark,
Roger Craig, Russ Francis, and that juggernaut OL? How about today's Brady
and his stable of thoroughbreds? Even Rice himself, who many say is the
G.O.A.T. of WRs. I have already mentioned his complements on his team.
Would he have done as well with less excellent players around him? He
probably would still have been good, but G.O.A.T.?

Even today's Broncos. I have already said, you bring in a couple good DTs
and watch how much better their LBs have suddenly become.

No, Coach, that is not speculation. A better supporting cast improves a
player's production and makes him appear better as a player.

-----

[haroldthebarrel]

what we, fans of the broncos should do in my opinion towards Gradishar is:

1. get a hold of old game tapes of the orange crush and make a video that we put out on the internet.
2. Send this video to the voters and let them defend the decision not to put him in.

[Lonestar]

LOL look at a Raven game and count how many times Ray Lewis, who is a great player really tackles the ball. Look then at the stat sheet after the game to see how many assists he suddenly gets just since he scrapes and happens to be near the play.

That argument is stupid. Yeah stats are padded. So what?
If you think there is a fish in the water, go look at the tapes and make AN INFORMED opinion. Dont go by the assumption that "I have heard denver padded gradishars stats so therefore he mustnt be all that great".

Hey I do not make the rules I do not tabulate the tackles.. One of the reasons that the NFL hired Elias to keep the stats was because TEAMS all of them were padding the books.

I heard it talked about several times about the Gradishar issue whether it is a fact or not I do not know, that is what the voters felt about his numbers because they were so out of the norm were padded..

I watched all of his games, I was there in the stands or in front of the screen I saw what special LB he was and I was outraged when one of the other LB were voted into the pro bowl in front of him.

But at the time I did not know the facts as I have just stated them.. Since then I have lived in or near (within 350 miles) 12 different other NFL cities. I have died on the vine looking for DEN info and have read every newspaper that covered the NFL looking for Bronco info so I think I have a well rounded background to what is being written about all of those teams at the time.. I was in their home market.. Until the INTERNET came along getting info on DEN was almost impossible unless you had someone mailing me sections of the post or RMN weekly.

[Lonestar]

what we, fans of the broncos should do in my opinion towards Gradishar is:

1. get a hold of old game tapes of the orange crush and make a video that we put out on the internet.
2. Send this video to the voters and let them defend the decision not to put him in.

they will not spend the time to do so.. they all have other fish to fry and frankly favorites players from their home team to try and get inducted.. They frankly do not care..

[haroldthebarrel]

they will not spend the time to do so.. they all have other fish to fry and frankly favorites players from their home team to try and get inducted.. They frankly do not care..

Then you use the internet to your advantage. most of these guys have QandAs on the net. All you need to do is then link the video and ask the question.
just because they are intellectually lazy doesnt mean we have to, right?

[Lonestar]

Then you use the internet to your advantage. most of these guys have QandAs on the net. All you need to do is then link the video and ask the question.
just because they are intellectually lazy doesnt mean we have to, right?


Hey knock your socks off.

I think it a waste of time considering most of them have already cast their votes for this year..

They are not folks that are sitting around on a forum doing nothing, they all have real jobs sports writers for their papers mostly, that the HOF voting is a very minor clog in their yearly work load....

[haroldthebarrel]

Hey knock your socks off.

I think it a waste of time considering most of them have already cast their votes for this year..

They are not folks that are sitting around on a forum doing nothing, they all have real jobs sports writers for their papers mostly, that the HOF voting is a very minor clog in their yearly work load....

i would do it if i had the means to do it. sadly I dont.

But even if they dont spend their time at forums, you can bet that they are quite aware of what the fans think. And I have yet to read a collumn during these times where a writer doenst write an article defending his selections to the HOF. Thus, at least make them defend their stance.

[CoachChaz]

But to say who was the better team is not. Who won four Super Bowls?

A player is very dependent on his supporting cast for his own production.
I have already pointed out Floyd Little's plight. Someone brought up Joe
Montana. Where would he have been without Rice, John Taylor, Dwight Clark,
Roger Craig, Russ Francis, and that juggernaut OL? How about today's Brady
and his stable of thoroughbreds? Even Rice himself, who many say is the
G.O.A.T. of WRs. I have already mentioned his complements on his team.
Would he have done as well with less excellent players around him? He
probably would still have been good, but G.O.A.T.?

Even today's Broncos. I have already said, you bring in a couple good DTs
and watch how much better their LBs have suddenly become.

No, Coach, that is not speculation. A better supporting cast improves a
player's production and makes him appear better as a player.

-----

Maybe the time I've spent coaching and training young athletes has been a farse. I've seen incredibly talented young adults flourish with a team and some flourish without the team. I couldn't have sat there and picked out which ones would do which by just looking at them. Lambert may have been mediocre in Denver and Gradishar may have been mediocre in Pittsburgh. No way to tell.

[Lonestar]

i would do it if i had the means to do it. sadly I dont.

But even if they dont spend their time at forums, you can bet that they are quite aware of what the fans think. And I have yet to read a collumn during these times where a writer doenst write an article defending his selections to the HOF. Thus, at least make them defend their stance.


HTB it is a secret ballot for obvious reasons so they do not have to justify to their readers why the DENVER Post writer voted for AL Davis. to be inducted.. That was a joke but someone from PHL voting for Art Monk or Dallas writer voting for LT as the Lb of the decade.. Unless someone is unanimous inductee they can always claim they did not vote for a hated rival. In some of these cities like Philly the writer would get death threats from halve of the city..

I admire your spunk on this, but get used to Broncos not being in the HOF, not going to the Pro Bowl because the polls are rigged to see those players that have the most exposure and that means where NFL football writers live and see games..

When most of the vote are east of the Mississippi that is where the players are seen the most and get the spoils..

Why do you think that when the AFL started up they could not sign top players, we were the minor leagues and many of the AFC teams are still in lesser cities.. Who wants to live in BUF, CIN, IND, KC, JAX, TEN, SAN DEN if they can live in LA, CHI, SFO, WAS, Philly or NYC. Those are all huge media cities the others are not or not as compared to the big apple. great places to live but hardly huge markets. The endorsements alone are worth more in the big cities because the sheer numbers of people they are seen by. In Den a game may been seen by say 1 million homes in NYC a Giants game could be seen by 5 million or more as many as 8-10. Where do the BIG EGOS go.. poorti$$$$$ could hardly wait to get out of here..

[Lonestar]

Maybe the time I've spent coaching and training young athletes has been a farse. I've seen incredibly talented young adults flourish with a team and some flourish without the team. I couldn't have sat there and picked out which ones would do which by just looking at them. Lambert may have been mediocre in Denver and Gradishar may have been mediocre in Pittsburgh. No way to tell.

Both would have been good in other cities they were driven players, no doubt about that.. I think lambert would have been better in a LB based system and that Randy would have been good in PITS surrounded with other talent.. His numbers would not have been on the moon but good indeed.

[HolyDiver]

your a homer.. I've been watching football for 55 years and although they are my favorites Lambert was on par with Butkis he was mean LB feared by all that played him.. Randy was not feared, but highly respected.. They were both game planned for, but Lambert was a better LB.. IMO

Gradishar was not feared like Lambert but was a much better tackler................Don't worry, I saw them both play alot too.

[topscribe]

Maybe the time I've spent coaching and training young athletes has been a farse. I've seen incredibly talented young adults flourish with a team and some flourish without the team. I couldn't have sat there and picked out which ones would do which by just looking at them. Lambert may have been mediocre in Denver and Gradishar may have been mediocre in Pittsburgh. No way to tell.

Coach, I have the highest respect for your knowledge. I will likely go to you
for knowledge and advice as I have Dean since well back into our Mania days.
Lancane, too, who has worked in football for years. I don't mean to even
imply that I know more about football than you, or even as much as you.

But what are we arguing about? I never said a poor supporting cast makes
a good player bad. I was saying a good supporting cast makes a player
better . . . any player. Hell, even a kicker is largely at the mercy of the
holder and the line. Therefore, you can go down the respective rosters of
the two teams and see that Lambert had a whole lot more help than did
Gradishar.

So I am only conveying what appeared to me at the time. Lambert's
supporting cast helped him to appear better. Gradishar did not have that
advantage, at least to Lambert's degree. Gradishar was clearly the best
player for the defense, except possibly for Louis Wright. Lambert had a lot
of competition for that status on his team.

So I stand by my original point: It is an injustice that Lambert is in the HOF
and Gradishar is not, IMHO. :whoknows:

But this is just a debate of opinions. And I do not discount yours by any
stretch.

-----

[SmilinAssasSin27]

we should know in 3 or 4 days...

[broncosfanscott]

we should know in 3 or 4 days...

And I hope both Broncos are happy. I will be excited if at least one of them gets in.

[mclark]

Lambert and Hamm were great linebackers on a great defense. Gradishar was the heart and soul of a great defense. They should all be in the Hall of Fame.

[Medford Bronco]

It is just a travesty that Jack Lambert has been in the HOF and Gradishar
has not. Lambert was a great player; don't get me wrong. But Lambert had
a great supporting cast.

Gradishar was that cast.

-----


what about Tom Jackson, Louie Wright and Lyle Alzado?

yes not the Steelers but very good in their own right.

[BOSSHOGG30]

At least four candidates must be elected but the total class cannot number more than seven. The Class of 2008 will be announced at a press conference at 2:30 p.m. (MT) on Saturday, February 2, at the Super Bowl media center in the Phoenix Convention Center. (http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement...p?story_id=2640)

CLASS OF 2008 FINALISTS:

CRIS CARTER
Wide Receiver. . .6-3, 202. . .Ohio State. . .1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins. . .16 seasons, 234 games. . .Selected by Philadelphia in the fourth round of the 1987 Supplemental Draft. . .First reception as a pro was a 22-yard touchdown catch. . .Durable; he played a full 16-game season in 13 of his 16 seasons. . .In 2000, became only the second player in NFL history to catch 1,000 career passes. . .Recorded 1,000 receiving yards in a season eight straight years. . .Broke the 100-yard receiving plateau 42 times during his career. . .Ranks second on the NFL's all-time list for total receptions (1,101) and receiving touchdowns (130). . .His 130 TD receptions came from 13 different passers. . .Caught 70-plus passes in 10 seasons. . .His 122 receptions in 1994 was a then-NFL single-season-record. . .Named to the NFL’s All-Decade Team of the 1990s and received the 1999 NFL Man of the Year Award. . .In 2002, returned to the field when he joined the Miami Dolphins in midseason when injuries decimated team’s receiving corps. . .Was first- or second-team All-Pro 1994, 1995, and 1999. . .Selected to play in eight Pro Bowls (1994-2001). . .Born November 25, 1965, in Troy, Ohio. BIO>>>

FRED DEAN
Defensive End. . .6-3, 230. . .Louisiana Tech. . .1975-1981 San Diego Chargers, 1981-1985 San Francisco 49ers. . .11 seasons, 141 games. . .Selected by San Diego in the second round (33rd player overall) in 1975 NFL Draft . . .A linebacker in college immediately moved to defensive line with the Chargers. . .Quickness, speed, strength made him a feared pass rusher. . .As a rookie, recorded seven sacks, 93 tackles (63 solo, 30 assists), four fumble recoveries. . .Career sack total near 100, but unofficial since sacks were not an official NFL statistic until 1982. . . Unofficially recorded 15.5 sacks in 1978, nine in 1979, and 10.5 in 1980. . .Contributed 12 sacks in 11 games with the 49ers in 1981. . .Had career best 17.5 sacks in 1983, including a then-NFL record six sacks in one game, Nov. 13 vs. New Orleans Saints. . .Played on six division winners (in 1981 he played on both the Chargers and 49ers division winners), and two Super Bowl Championship teams (Super Bowl XVI and Super Bowl XIX). . .Named All-Pro in 1980 and 1981, All-AFC in 1979 and 1980, All-NFC in 1981 and 1983. . .Selected to play in four Pro Bowls (1980, 1981, 1982, and 1984). . .Born February 24, 1952 in Arcadia, Louisiana. BIO>>>

RICHARD DENT
Defensive End. . .6-5, 265. . .Tennessee State. . .1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles. . .15 seasons, 203 games. . .Selected by Chicago in eighth round (203rd player overall) of 1983 NFL Draft. . .Played in every game as rookie. . .Became full-time starter early in 1984, beginning a 10-year period in which he recorded 10 or more sacks in eight of 10 seasons. . .An intimidating player, could speed rush or power rush the quarterback. . .Twice, once in 1984 and again in 1987, recorded 4.5 sacks in a game, both vs. Raiders. . .One of game’s premier pass rushers with 137.5 career sacks, which at time of retirement third all-time best. . .Recorded double-digit sacks eight times including streak of five consecutive years (1984-88). . .Led NFC with team record 17.5 sacks, 1984. . .Following year, led NFL with 17 sacks as an integral part of Bears dominating defense. . .His three tackles, 1.5 sacks, one pass defensed and two forced fumbles earned him Super Bowl XX MVP honors following Bears lopsided 46-10 win over Patriots. . .Career statistics include eight interceptions (one touchdown), a safety, and fumble recovery for a touchdown. . .Named first- or second-team All-Pro four times, All-NFC five times. . .Selected to play in four Pro Bowls (1985, 1986, 1991, 1994). . .Born December 13, 1960 in Atlanta, Georgia. BIO>>>

[BOSSHOGG30]

MARSHALL GOLDBERG
Halfback. . .5-11, 190. . .Pittsburgh. . .1939-1943, 1946-48 Chicago Cardinals. . .8 playing seasons, 77 games. . . Career interrupted by two years of military service during WW II. . .A two-time All-America pick at the University of Pittsburgh. . .Drafted in the second round (12th player overall) of the 1939 NFL Draft. . .Played offense and defense throughout career and as a kick returner during four seasons. . .An integral part of the team’s 1947 NFL championship. . .An effective runner on offense, was known for his explosive running style. . .Was one of the best defensive players of his day. . .Considered by many to be the first defensive specialist. . .Known for his consistently strong play against league’s best ends, including future Hall of Famer Don Hutson. . .Led the NFL in interceptions 1941. . .Led the NFL in kickoff returns, 1941, 1942. . .Known as “Biggie” and “Mad Marshall,” for his hard, all-out style of play. . .Named second-team All-NFL as a two-way player in 1941 and All-NFL as a defensive back, 1947. . . Born October 25, 1917 in Elkins, West Virginia. . .Died April 3, 2006, at age of 88. BIO>>>

RANDY GRADISHAR
Linebacker. . .6-3, 233. . .Ohio State. . .1974-1983 Denver Broncos. . .10 seasons, 145 games. . .Broncos’ first-round pick (14th player overall) in 1974 draft. . .Foundation upon which Broncos built “Orange Crush” defense. . . Dominant player, caught national attention when he returned interception 44 yards for TD during nationally televised game, 1975. . .Key to Broncos defense that held opponents to AFC-best average 10 points per game, 1977. . .That year team finished 12-2, advanced to Super Bowl XII. . .In 1978, behind “Orange Crush” defense team captured AFC Western Division crown. . . Broncos all-time leader in tackles (2,049). . .Never missed game, played in 145 consecutive matches. . .Led Broncos defenders in tackles nine consecutive years. . .Accounted for 33 turnovers during career, 20 interceptions, 13 fumble recoveries. . .Returned interception 93 yards for TD against Browns, 1980. . .Twice voted defensive MVP by teammates, 1978 and 1980. . .Named to seven Pro Bowls. . .All-Pro five straight seasons, 1977-1981. . .All-AFC 1977-79, 1981-82. . .Defensive Player of the Year in 1978. . .Born March 3, 1952 in Warren, Ohio. BIO>>>

DARRELL GREEN
Cornerback. . .5-8, 176. . .Texas A&I. . .1983-2002 Washington Redskins. . .20 seasons, 295 games. . .Selected in first round (28th player overall) in 1983 NFL Draft. . .Holds NFL record with at least one interception in 19 consecutive seasons. . .Career interception totals: 54 interceptions for 621 yards, 6 TDs. . .Tied for first on NFL all-time list for most consecutive seasons with one team (20). . .Set career-highs of three INTs vs. Detroit (11/15/87) and 12 tackles vs. Detroit (10/22/95). . .Had career-best five INTs in three different seasons: 1984, 1986, 1991 . . .Returned fumble 78 yards for a score vs. the Colts (10/7/93), longest fumble return in Redskins history. . . Returned an INT 83 yards for TD vs. Eagles (12/21/97), longest return of his career. . .Returned six interceptions for TDs. . .Also returned 51 punts for 611 yards. . .Returned punt 52 yards for a TD in NFC Divisional Playoff Game (1/10/88). . .Jarred the ball from Minnesota’s Darrin Nelson on a fourth-down pass at the goal line late in the NFC championship (1/17/88), securing the Redskins 17-10 victory. . .Tied for second all-time for most interceptions returned for touchdowns in playoffs with two. . .A member of the 1990s All-Decade Team. . . Selected to play in seven Pro Bowls. . .Named All-Pro 1986, 1987, 1990, 1991. . .Born February 15, 1960 in Houston, Texas. BIO>>>

[BOSSHOGG30]

RUSS GRIMM
Guard. . .6-3, 273. . .Pittsburgh. . .1981-1991 Washington Redskins. . .11 seasons, 140 games. . .Selected in third round (69th player overall) in 1981 NFL Draft. . .Originally pegged to play center, moved to left guard as rookie. . . Immediate starter on line that earned nickname "The Hogs". . .Teaming with tackle Joe Jacoby, formed perhaps most punishing side of an offensive line in football at the time. . .With Grimm’s speed and strength, Redskins rode success of dominating running attack to victory in Super Bowl XVII in which John Riggins rushed for then-record 166 yards. . .During playoff run that year, team averaged 152 yards rushing. . .Following 1983 season, Grimm was selected to first of four straight Pro Bowls. . .Also marked start of four consecutive years (1983-86) of All-Pro recognition. . .Also named All-NFC in each of those seasons. . .In 1987 moved to center and started five games before being sidelined until season finale with knee injury. . .Missed 11 games in 1988 with knee injury. . . Appeared in five NFC championship games and four Super Bowls including wins in Super Bowls XVII, XXII, XXVI. . . Elected to NFL's 1980s All-Decade Team. . .Born May 2, 1959 in Scottdale, Pennsylvania. BIO>>>

RAY GUY
Punter…6-3, 195. . .Southern Mississippi. . .1973-1986 Oakland/Los Angeles Raiders. . .14 seasons, 207 games. . . All-America, nation’s top collegiate punter, 1972. . .First punter ever to be selected in first round, Raiders 1973 (23rd player overall). . .Became impact player from very first game as a rookie. . .Averaged under 40 yards only one season in NFL career. . .Had best average (45.3 yards) as rookie. . .Led NFL in punting, 1974, 1975, 1977. . . Had only three of 1,049 punts blocked. . .Career average was 42.4 yards. . .Had 619 punts without a block, 1979-1986. . .Veteran of 22 postseason games, adding 111 punts for 42.4 average. . .All-Pro six straight seasons, 1973-1978. . .All-AFC seven times. . .Played in seven Pro Bowls, including six straight from 1974 to 1979. . .Played in seven AFC championship games, Super Bowls XI, XV, XVIII. . .Three-game Super Bowl totals: 14 punts, 41.9-yard average. . .Had 57 punts inside 20-yard line, 1984-1985. . .First punter to hit Louisiana Superdome scoreboard, 1977 Pro Bowl. . .Doubled as Raiders’ emergency quarterback with strong, accurate passing arm. . .Born December 22, 1949, in Swainsboro, Georgia. BIO>>>

BOB KUECHENBERG
Guard. . .6-2, 253. . .Notre Dame. . .1970-1984 Miami Dolphins (inj. res. - 1984). . .Selected by Philadelphia Eagles in fourth round (80th player overall) of 1969 AFL-NFL Draft. . .15 seasons, 196 games. . .Spent 1984 season on injured reserve. . .Released by both the Eagles and Atlanta Falcons. . .Played semi-pro football before signing as free agent with Miami Dolphins in 1970. . .Highly competitive and driven to succeed, played in more regular season games (196) than any other player in Dolphins history at the time of his retirement. . .Also only player to play in all 19 playoff games in franchise’s history at that time. . .A versatile player, spent time at tackle and center positions. . .In 1978 played eight games at guard and seven at tackle, earning Pro Bowl spot at guard and Sporting News All-AFC honors at tackle. . .In 1977 suffered a pair of fractures in back in August but returned to lineup after missing just two regular season starts. . .Named to six Pro Bowls (1975, 1976, 1978, 1979, 1983, 1984). . .All-Pro 1975, 1978; All-AFC 1974, 1975, 1978; All-Pro Second Team 1975, 1977, 1978. . .Had memorable performance in Super Bowl VII victory. . .Born October 14, 1947 in Gary, Indiana. BIO>>>

RANDALL MCDANIEL
Guard. . .6-3, 276. . .Arizona State. . .1988-1999 Minnesota Vikings, 2000-01 Tampa Bay Buccaneers. . .14 seasons, 222 games. . .Selected by the Vikings in first round (19th player overall) of 1988 NFL Draft. . .Played in all 16 games as rookie, starting 15. . .Earned all-Rookie honors. . .Started in 13 consecutive playoff games with the Vikings. . .Started in 202 consecutive games before retiring. . .Possessed uncanny ability to either finesse block or overpower opponents. . .Led Vikings offensive line that held opponents to a sack every 22.7 attempts (1994), and every 21.3 attempts in 1998. . .Blocked for six 1,000-yard rushers and five 3,000-yard passers during career . . .With McDaniel leading the offensive line, team captured NFC Central Division titles in 1989, 1992, 1994, and 1998. . .Anchored offensive line of explosive Vikings team that led league with then-record 556 points in 1998. . . Named All-Pro nine consecutive times (1990-98). . .Selected to play in a record 12 consecutive AFC-NFC Pro Bowls (1990-2001). . .Born December 19, 1964 in Phoenix, Arizona. BIO>>>

ART MONK
Wide Receiver. . .6-3, 210. . .Syracuse. . .1980-1993 Washington Redskins, 1994 New York Jets, 1995 Philadelphia Eagles. . .16 seasons, 224 games. . .Selected by Washington in first round (18th player overall) of 1980 NFL Draft . . .Prototype for today’s bigger, stronger receivers. . .Caught 58 passes as a rookie and was unanimous All-Rookie choice. . .Had 50 or more receptions in a season nine times. . .Gained 1,000 or more receiving yards in a season five times. . .Set then-NFL records for catches in a season (106), most consecutive games with at least one reception (164), and career receptions (820). . .Finished career with 940 catches. . .A strong receiver, especially effective over the middle in traffic, made the “dodge pattern” his signature play. . .Had finest season in 1984, catching eight or more passes in six games, five games of 100-plus receiving yards, and in one game caught 10 passes for 200 yards. . .Named Redskins 1984 Most Valuable Player. . .First Redskin to produce three consecutive 1,000 receiving yard seasons. . .A three-time Pro Bowl selection, was All-Pro choice in 1984 and 1985. . .First- or second-team All-NFC three times. . .Born December 5, 1957 in White Plains, New York. BIO>>>

ANDRE REED
Wide Receiver. . .6-2, 190. . .Kutztown. . .1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins. . .16 seasons, 234 games. . .Selected by Buffalo in fourth round (86th player overall) of 1985 NFL Draft. . .Most prolific receiver in Buffalo Bills history. . .His 941 career receptions still Bills record and 266 more than number two on that list. . .His 13,095 career reception yardage, 36 games with 100-plus receiving yards, and 15 catches in a game are current team records. . .Known for his “yards after catch”. . .His 951 career receptions were third all-time in NFL history at the time of his retirement. . .His 13 seasons, including nine consecutive, with 50-plus receptions is exceeded only by Jerry Rice. . .Reed is tied with Bills running back Thurman Thomas for team best career touchdowns (87), most on passes from Jim Kelly. . .Kelly-Reed tandem held NFL record for career receptions (663) until 2004 when eclipsed by Peyton Manning to Marvin Harrison. . .Known for toughness as he made most of his receptions over the middle. . .A four-time All-AFC choice and three-time All-NFL second team, was selected to play in seven consecutive Pro Bowls (1989-1995). . .Added an additional 85 catches for 1,229 yards, including five 100-yard games in postseason play. . .Born January 29, 1964 in Allentown, Pennsylvania. BIO>>>

PAUL TAGLIABUE
Commissioner. . .Georgetown, New York University. . .1989-2006 National Football League. . .During tenure, NFL grew to unparalleled heights. . .By a wide margin, NFL with its competitive equity is considered nation’s most popular sport. . .Committed to a “league think” philosophy, his leadership enabled NFL to address several key priorities. . .The league expanded to 32 teams. . .Nearly two decades of labor peace with the NFL Players Association. . .League supported some 20 new stadium construction projects. . .Established NFL as a global brand with operations in overseas markets. . .Was first league to operate on a weekly basis on two separate continents . . .Created a league-wide internet network and subscriber-based NFL TV Network. . .Secured largest TV contracts in entertainment history totaling some $25 billion. . .Before becoming league’s CEO, represented NFL as attorney . . .Served in office of U.S. Secretary of Defense as policy analyst. . .Currently a member of the Council on Foreign Relations. . .Born November 24, 1940 in Jersey City, New Jersey. BIO>>>

DERRICK THOMAS
Linebacker. . .6-3, 243. . .Alabama. . .1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs. . .11 seasons, 169 games. . .Selected in the first round (4th player overall) in 1989 NFL Draft. . .Consensus All-America. . .Amassed 10 sacks and 75 tackles to earn Defensive Rookie of the Year honors. . .In 1990 recorded league-leading and team record 20 sacks; including NFL record seven sacks in game vs. Seahawks. . .Also recorded six forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, 63 tackles, five pass deflections, 35 quarterback pressures and was named to first of nine Pro Bowls. . .No player amassed more sacks during 1990s than 116.5 by Thomas. . .Finished career with 126.5 sacks; fourth highest total by linebacker in NFL history. . .Had 10 or more sacks in a season seven times; recorded multi-sack games 27 times. . .Forced 45 fumbles, had 19 fumble recoveries, scored four touchdowns on fumble returns and added three safeties during career. . .Lone interception came in final season. . .Member of NFL's All-Decade Team of the 1990s . . .All-NFL three times. . .Named first-team All-AFC seven times during eight-year stretch (1989-1996). . .In 11 years Thomas anchored defense, Chiefs finished first or second in AFC West ten times, made seven playoff appearances, won three division titles. . .Born January 1, 1967 in Miami, Florida. . .Died February 8, 2000, at age of 33. BIO>>>

EMMITT THOMAS
Cornerback. . .6-2, 192. . .Bishop. . .1966-1978 Kansas City Chiefs. . .13 seasons, 181 games. . .Joined the Chiefs as an undrafted free agent from Bishop College in Dallas, Texas. . .One of finest cornerbacks of his era. . .Ranks ninth all-time in interceptions with 58, which is fourth all-time best by a pure cornerback and is Chiefs all-time record. . .Led NFL with team-record 12 interceptions in 1974 - two shy of NFL all-time record. . .Two of his 1974 interceptions went for touchdowns. . .His 38-yard score helped seal an opening day victory over the New York Jets, then a 73-yarder in season closer vs. Minnesota proved to be longest of his career and seventh longest in Kansas City history at time of his retirement. . .Led AFL with nine picks in 1969 and added three more during playoffs including interception in Chiefs Super Bowl IV win over the Vikings. . .Returned five interceptions for TDs during career. . .Led the Chiefs in interceptions in 1969, 1971, 1973, 1974, and 1975. . .His 937 return yards on 58 INTs is team record. . .Selected to play in five Pro Bowls, was first- or second-team All-AFL/AFC 1969, 1970, 1971, 1974, 1975, first- or second-team All-NFL 1971, 1974, 1975. . .Born June 3, 1943 in Angleton, Texas. BIO>>>

[BOSSHOGG30]

ANDRE TIPPETT
Linebacker. . .6-3, 240. . .Iowa; Ellsworth (IA) Junior College. . .1982-1993 New England Patriots. . .11 seasons, 151 games. . .Selected in the second round (41st player overall) 1982 NFL Draft. . .Used primarily on special teams in strike-shortened rookie season. . .Earned starter’s role following season. . .In 1984 established team record 18.5 sacks and earned first of five consecutive (1985-89) Pro Bowl selections. . .Was a factor in team’s success that led to first Super Bowl (SB XX) appearance. . .That season (1985) led AFC with 16.5 sacks (2nd in NFL), had three forced fumbles, recovered three fumbles, returned one for a 25-yard TD, earning AFC Defensive Player of the Year honors. . .Began 1986 season with 9.5 sacks before injury sidelined him for five games following surgery. . .Returned for final two games of season and one postseason game. . .Even in shortened season, still earned Pro Bowl, All-AFC, and All-Pro second team honors. . .In 1987 had AFC-leading 12.5 sacks, team-best three fumble recoveries (one returned for TD), blocked a field goal that was returned by teammate for 71-yard TD. . . Missed four games in 1988 and entire 1989 season due to injuries. . .Remained a dominant player through final four seasons. . .At time of retirement, his 100 career sacks, 18.5 sacks in a season, 17 opponent fumbles recovered were team bests. . .Named to NFL’s All-Decade Team of the 1980s. . .Born December 27, 1959 in Birmingham, Alabama. BIO>>>

GARY ZIMMERMAN
Tackle. . .6-6, 294. . .Oregon. . .1986-1992 Minnesota Vikings, 1993-97 Denver Broncos. . .12 seasons, 184 games. . .Selected in first round (3rd player overall) 1984 NFL Supplemental Draft. . . Originally selected by Giants, signing rights traded to Vikings for two second-round picks in 1986 draft. . .Spent two seasons with the L.A. Express of failed USFL before reporting to Vikings. . .After joining Vikings, began streak of 169 consecutive starts that lasted until 1996 when surgery sidelined him. . .Anchored offensive line that helped Vikings lead NFC in rushing, 1991. . .Acquired by Broncos in trade prior to start of 1993 season. . .With Zimmerman blocking, Broncos recorded most successful offensive output in franchise history. . .Led AFC in total combined yards, 1995. . .Led NFL in that category, 1996, 1997. . .Broncos also led NFL in rushing, 1996. . .Had a streak of 169 consecutive starts before being sidelined with shoulder surgery. . .Equally adept at pass blocking, Minnesota and Denver quarterbacks led their conferences in passing 1986, 1988, 1993, and 1996. . .One of just handful of players to earn honor of being named to two NFL All-Decade Teams, 1980s, 1990s. . .NFL Lineman of the Year in 1987. . .Earned first- or second-team All-Pro honors eight times. . .Selected to play in seven Pro Bowls. . .Born December 13, 1961 in Fullerton, California. BIO>>>

If elected...special notes on 2008 finalists - by position

If elected. . .

Fred Dean and/or Richard Dent would become the 14th and/or 15th modern-era defensive end(s) to be elected to the Hall of Fame. Other Hall of Fame defensive ends are Doug Atkins, Elvin Bethea, Willie Davis, Carl Eller, Len Ford, Dan Hampton (DT-DE), Deacon Jones, Howie Long, Gino Marchetti, Andy Robustelli, Lee Roy Selmon, Reggie White (DT-DE), and Jack Youngblood.Darrell Green would become the 11th cornerback elected to the Hall of Fame. Other cornerbacks already enshrined include Herb Adderley, Lem Barney, Mel Blount, Willie Brown, Mike Haynes, Jimmy Johnson, Dick “Night Train” Lane, Ronnie Lott (CB-S), Mel Renfro (CB-S), and Roger Wehrli.

Russ Grimm and/or Bob Kuechenberg and/or Randall McDaniel would be the 12th, 13th and/or 14th modern-era player(s) who played primarily as a guard to be elected. The other Hall of Fame guards previously elected are Joe DeLamielleure, John Hannah, Gene Hickerson, Stan Jones (G-T also DT), Larry Little, Tom Mack, Bruce Matthews (G-T-C), Mike Munchak, Jim Parker (G-T), Billy Shaw, and Gene Upshaw.

Ray Guy would be the first pure punter elected to the Hall of Fame.

Cris Carter and/or Art Monk and/or Andre Reed will join 18 other modern-era receivers in the Hall of Fame. Other Hall of Fame modern-era receivers include Lance Alworth, Raymond Berry, Fred Biletnikoff, Tom Fears, Elroy Hirsch (also a halfback), Michael Irvin, Charlie Joiner, Steve Largent, Dante Lavelli, James Lofton, Don Maynard, Tommy McDonald, Bobby Mitchell (also a halfback), Pete Pihos, John Stallworth, Lynn Swann, Charley Taylor (also a halfback), and Paul Warfield.

Paul Tagliabue would become the 18th contributor elected to the Hall of Fame. He would join Bert Bell, Charles Bidwill, Joe Carr, Al Davis, Jim Finks, George Halas, Lamar Hunt, Curly Lambeau, Tim Mara, Wellington Mara, George Preston Marshall, Hugh “Shorty” Ray, Dan Reeves, Art Rooney, Dan Rooney, Pete Rozelle, Tex Schramm.

Randy Gradishar, and/or Derrick Thomas and/or Andre Tippett would be the 17th, 18th, and/or 19th modern-era Hall of Fame linebacker(s) joining Bobby Bell (also DE), Nick Buoniconti, Dick Butkus, Harry Carson, George Connor (also DT and OT), Bill George, Jack Ham, Ted Hendricks, Sam Huff, Jack Lambert, Willie Lanier, Ray Nitschke, Joe Schmidt, Mike Singletary, Lawrence Taylor, and Dave Wilcox.

Gary Zimmerman would be the 16th modern-era player who played primarily as a tackle to be elected. Other Hall of Fame tackles include Bob Brown, Roosevelt Brown, Lou Creekmur, Dan Dierdorf, Forrest Gregg, Lou Groza (also PK), Mike McCormack, Ron Mix, Anthony Muñoz, Jim Parker (G-T), Bob St. Clair, Art Shell, Jackie Slater, Rayfield Wright, and Ron Yary.

[Rex]

I will say one thing......if Randy Gradishar is NOT a HOFer, then Derrick Thomas certainly is NOT a HOFer.

[BOSSHOGG30]

I will say one thing......if Randy Gradishar is NOT a HOFer, then Derrick Thomas certainly is NOT a HOFer.

Guess you could say the same thing about ANDRE TIPPETT too.

[topscribe]

what about Tom Jackson, Louie Wright and Lyle Alzado?

yes not the Steelers but very good in their own right.

You just named three players for the Broncos (two whom I had already
mentioned a couple times in this thread). I named 10 for the Steelers.

And I didn't even mention the Steelers offense, which contributed mightily
toward keeping their defense fresh . . .

-----

[SmilinAssasSin27]

less than 24 hours...

who is going to canton if Graddy gets the nod?

[Lonestar]

less than 24 hours...

who is going to canton if Graddy gets the nod?

his wife?

[BOSSHOGG30]

Chris Carter, Darrell Green, and Paul Tagliabue are shoe ins.

That means they have to pick one more guy and can only go up to 4 more total.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm not sold that Cris Carter is a shoe in. He SHOULD be, but WRs seem to get robbed quite a bit.

[Lonestar]

Chris Carter, Darrell Green, and Paul Tagliabue are shoe ins.

That means they have to pick one more guy and can only go up to 4 more total..

does not bode well for broncos..

Art Monk should finally get in, DT should be in also.. Goldberg because he is an old timer leaves one and most of the other OL guys played on more famous teams..

I think DEN gets skunked again..

[Lonestar]

I'm not sold that Cris Carter is a shoe in. He SHOULD be, but WRs seem to get robbed quite a bit..


He leads or is number two in almost all the records.. He is visible on HBO he is lock..

[SmilinAssasSin27]

Where did Monk rank when he retired???

[BroncoJoe]

I know a lot of people don't care for Peter King, but here's his thoughts. Isn't he a voter?


PHOENIX -- Trying to predict the Pro Football Hall of Fame class is always difficult, but I don't recall a more difficult year in my decade and a half as one of the selectors. The reason: there are no gimmes in this group and there are varying degrees of support for many of the 17 candidates.

Voting for the Hall is Saturday in downtown Phoenix. The 17 candidates consist of 15 modern era and two Seniors Committee nominees. The announcement of the new class -- a minimum of four and maximum of seven -- should come late Saturday afternoon.

Last year I did a tote board with odds on who I liked and why. I'm not going to be that stupid this year because one of last year's fair-headed men, Paul Tagliabue, didn't come close to being elected. Here's how I forecast his group.

Newcomers Darrell Green and Cris Carter -- particularly Green, the two-decade Redskins standout -- enter the room with the best chances of getting through. After that, it's anybody's guess. The leaders, from my sense of it, are wide receiver Art Monk, tackle Gary Zimmerman, linebacker Andre Tippett, defensive ends Richard Dent and Fred Dean, guards Russ Grimm and Bob Kuechenberg, and Seniors nominee Emmitt Thomas, a veteran cornerback and longtime assistant coach.

The reason I can't give you a much better clue is that I think sentiments of the voters are all over the place, judging from my informal talks with them this week. So it'd be dangerous to say any single guy is a favorite, other than Green, most likely.

Talking with Pro Football Hall of Fame vice president Joe Horrigan today I found I had a lot in common with someone who knows the Hall better than anyone. "I'm befuddled," Horrigan said. "There's great equality in this class, and it's really hard to tell which candidates will get in first."

It's clear that a guy like Carter, with 1,101 receptions and 130 touchdowns, is Hall of Fame-caliber, but I just don't know if the zeal of some voters to get Monk in the Hall after a decade of frustration is going to cause Carter to wait a year or two.

I'll have more to say about this in a file on Saturday afternoon and again on Monday, in my regular column. But stay tuned, there's going to be quite a lot of intrigue.



I'd love to see Zim get in, but would rather see Gradishar this year. If he moves out of the "modern era", I'm afraid he'll never get in.

[Lonestar]

not even a hint about randy in that.. sad

[HolyDiver]

Where did Monk rank when he retired???

#1 all-time Receiver I think..............I'll check.

[HolyDiver]

Monk Retired in 1995 with 940 receptions...............Rice and Chris Carter and Tim Brown, were still a ways from that.............Rice was probably close though.

[pnbronco]

I know a lot of people don't care for Peter King, but here's his thoughts. Isn't he a voter?



I'd love to see Zim get in, but would rather see Gradishar this year. If he moves out of the "modern era", I'm afraid he'll never get in.

I totally agree. I think Zim has several more years but I just think it's time for Gradishar, he so deserves it.

[tubby]

Click on videos. Watch the tribute.

http://www.gradishar4hof.com/home.aspx

[BOSSHOGG30]

A lot of teams played 4-3 and it took awhile for a true 3-4 inside linebacker to make the Hall of Fame. Carson just made it recently... this should help start a trend of who gets in or not because we now have someone to compare to.

[pnbronco]

Click on videos. Watch the tribute.

http://www.gradishar4hof.com/home.aspx

That was great. The video was wonderful. Thank you so much for posting that. It was really interesting all the different HOF that support him being inducted.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

So is the announcement 2:30 eastern time or Denver time?

[Fan in Exile]

4:30 ET 2:30 Denver

[SmilinAssasSin27]

thanx

[SmilinAssasSin27]

I'm not sold that Cris Carter is a shoe in. He SHOULD be, but WRs seem to get robbed quite a bit.

Cris Carter did NOT get in.

[Npba900]

Randy will get in. He was a finalist this year and that says allot IMHO. What needs to be done now is that a campaign machine needs to continue to talk about Randy. Also, the Broncos....when the opportunity lends itself, need to find away to get Randy back involved in the game visually during the season. In other words....put his face back out there!, especially in the context of the "Orange Crush Defense" so the public will know he existed and are aware of his career, records, impacts, and overall staff.

Perfect example would be when the Broncos are at home on Monday night or Sunday night while playing a high profile team; this would be and excellent time to have Randy appear and just talk Bronco football. Then while this is happening, they can show tapes of Randy playing. Thats how you promote your guy into the HOF. Randy's play speaks for itself, he just needs some recognition so the public knows who he is and how he played and impact the game.

[SmilinAssasSin27]

He wasn't a finalist. he didn't even make the top 10. Now he's not even eligible for regular entry. It's gonna be a while.

[MOtorboat]

He wasn't a finalist. he didn't even make the top 10. Now he's not even eligible for regular entry. It's gonna be a while.

On to the veterans committee...right...

What a shame. One of the most successful franchises in NFL history can't even get it's leading tackler into the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame is a joke and so is its voters.

Andre Tippett? Seriously? That's a joke!

[haroldthebarrel]

I dont have a problem with Tippett getting in. He was an all star during his time.
What I do have a problem with is the selection of team winners above the great individual players.
There is no way you can give me a good argument that Gradishar at the very least was top five line backer during his time.

[broncosfanscott]

On to the veterans committee...right...

What a shame. One of the most successful franchises in NFL history can't even get it's leading tackler into the Hall of Fame. Hall of Fame is a joke and so is its voters.

Andre Tippett? Seriously? That's a joke!


There is no way Gradishar should have to rely on the veterans committee now. I mean only two at the most get in every year. Don't get me wrong, I am glad Zimmerman got in and rightfully so. However the process needs to be changed because there are several players who wait too long to get in and then there are those that deserve who don't.